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PPC/RapidIO vs. Apple/HyperTransport???

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
<a href="http://www.arstechnica.com/wankerdesk/01q4/hypertransport/hypertransport-1.html" target="_blank">http://www.arstechnica.com/wankerdesk/01q4/hypertransport/hypertransport-1.html</a>

This article points out what some of you may have already pondered about. Moto and IBM are backing the RapidIO standard and Apple is signed on for the competing Hypertransport standard. What does this mean? The article points out some very interesting possibilities (check out page 3).
post #2 of 19
That's a great read. But also somewhat disappointing.

The article didn't mention the possibility of Apple's membership in the HyperTransport consortium as any of the following:

a) a smokescreen to throw off the rumor mill
b) an attempt at sabotage
c) a desparate search for new technologies to rip off in some form or another
d) something Jobsian just to spite IBM/Mot
art may imitate life, but life imitates tv.
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art may imitate life, but life imitates tv.
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post #3 of 19
I seem to recall reading that RapidIO and HyperTransport are more complentary than competing technologies. IIRC, one is good for making mobos and the other is good for connecting stuff to mobos (or something like that). My memory is a bit foggy on this, though.
post #4 of 19
Whisper is right.

RapidIO could be used to link the processor to memory, and HyperTransport used to link the PCI-X/3GIO, video, sound, etc. Apparently the two can coexist for different purposes on the same mobo.

I posted regarding this on /. and an hp employee was nice enough to give a solid answer.
post #5 of 19
yes, media over-hyped it a bit because they like to pit one tech vs another... while in effect, its a complimentary technology that can work very well together.
I'm having deja-vu and amnesia at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
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I'm having deja-vu and amnesia at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
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post #6 of 19
RapidIO and HyperTransport are in direct competition with each other. They are both chip-to-chip serial buses for processor to processor, processor to core logic chips, core logic to PCI bridges, etc. It would be a rather unusual motherboard for Apple to use both technologies.

NGIO + Future I/O = InfiniBand = replacement for network buses (Intel + IBM + Compaq ...)
Lightning Data Transport -&gt; HyperTransport = chip to chip bus, replacement for processor buses (AMD)
RapidIO = chip to chip bus, replacement for processor buses (Motorola)
3GIO = replacement for PCI (Intel)
post #7 of 19
[quote]Originally posted by THT:
<strong>RapidIO and HyperTransport are in direct competition with each other. They are both chip-to-chip serial buses for processor to processor, processor to core logic chips, core logic to PCI bridges, etc. It would be a rather unusual motherboard for Apple to use both technologies.

NGIO + Future I/O = InfiniBand = replacement for network buses (Intel + IBM + Compaq ...)
Lightning Data Transport -&gt; HyperTransport = chip to chip bus, replacement for processor buses (AMD)
RapidIO = chip to chip bus, replacement for processor buses (Motorola)
3GIO = replacement for PCI (Intel)</strong><hr></blockquote>

Aw man, I could've sworn I read something about them only kinda sorta competing. Well I'm pretty sure you know your stuff better than I do. It'll be interesting to see how Apple deals with it now.
post #8 of 19
The main difference between the two (RapidIO and HT) is that RapidIO stresses embedded hardware and HT is designed for desktop PC type hardware. So, HT has a bit more bandwidth than RapidIO does.

It's certainly an odd situation that Apple is in. If Apple can convince Moto and IBM to produce PPC chips with HT buses everything would be gravy. But as it stands now with Moto and IBM putting RapidIO on their PPCs, the only reason for Apple to use HT appears to be that there would be more PC oriented HT components available for Apple to connect to the southbridge end of their computers. IE, Apple will be using HT as a PCI replacement.

So:

PPC chip &lt;-&gt; RapidIO &lt;-&gt; northbridge chip &lt;-&gt; HT &lt;-&gt; southbridge.

The northbridge would have memory, AGP, FireWire, Ethernet and one would have ATA/133 or serial ATA. The southbridge would have legacy PCI, USB, audio, Airport (on ATA/33), and modem. The PPC chip could have a memory controller, but that's a ways away.
post #9 of 19
Thread Starter 
Maybe you folks were thinking of HyperTransport vs. 3GIO. The media was claiming they are competing technologies when in reality they're complementary. As I recall, Intel's signed on for HT and even issued a press release that the two would co-exist.

THT, thanks for the info on HT and RapidIO.
post #10 of 19
[quote]THT
"Apple will be using HT as a PCI replacement."<hr></blockquote>

Oh great googly moogly. I bought an 8100 w/ NUBUS weeks before Apple dumped it and went with PCI. Now I'm in a position to buy a new computer in late Dec. early Jan. and in all likelyhood it will be PCI.
Then ....then.....then....well you know....I'm stuck with an outdated system w/ limited upgradability for another 6 friggin years.
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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post #11 of 19
Rickag, It's a replacement for the PCI bus between the PCI devices and the Northbridge. They will continue to use PCI as the interface so it will not become a dead technology like NuBUS. HT doesn't interface with devices, in only serves to connect them.
post #12 of 19
Thank you Eskimo.
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
Reply
post #13 of 19
The iMac and iBook already have an integrated North and southbridge chip called pangea. I think the next generation PowerMac will have something very similar.
post #14 of 19
post #15 of 19
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>The iMac and iBook already have an integrated North and southbridge chip called pangea. .</strong><hr></blockquote>

Does the name of this chip has something to do with Pangea sofware (nanosaur, bugdoom ...) ?
post #16 of 19
No It has to do with the prehistoric super-continent millions of years ago that covered the Earth. All modern continent originated from it. Apple should have called the chip "Pangea in reverse"
post #17 of 19
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>No It has to do with the prehistoric super-continent millions of years ago that covered the Earth. All modern continent originated from it. Apple should have called the chip "Pangea in reverse"</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for your answer, but if i have understand what you say do you mean that this chip is a prehistoric chip

post #18 of 19
All of our mobo envy is explained!
*Registered March 1, 1999*
Member #14
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*Registered March 1, 1999*
Member #14
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post #19 of 19
Nevermind, I just saw where I got the link from :o . Thanks for posting that, John.

[ 11-15-2001: Message edited by: Whisper ]</p>
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