Has Apple abandoned one of the iMacs best features?

[quote]Originally posted by mpw_amherst:
<strong>My iMac is in my bedroom, the last thing I want in any computer, let alone one in the bedroom, is a bloody great fan going like a siren. The Apple site says nothing on the subject, so do you reckon that the new iMac has a fan?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I hope it has a fan. If it does and you don't like it, just clip the wires.

It seems the iMac is using Powerbook style chips. So maybe, maybe not.

SdC

The new iMac does not have a fan.

-S

I would've been surprised if it had a fan. But I was surprised that Steve didn't mind not having slot loading drives.

the new iMac does not have a fan. inside info that's weeks old now said no fan for sure. all the other info about the iMac held up from this person, so i believe this is true too.

[quote]Originally posted by EmAn:
<strong>I would've been surprised if it had a fan. But I was surprised that Steve didn't mind not having slot loading drives.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't think a slot loading drive would look right on this design...

The tray closes and looks cleaner when not in use than a slot would.

Really, not a big deal anyway IMO.

Just PLEASE don't have a fan...

That probably already is a custom shaped drive, and they didn't want a slot in there, they wanted it to close up nicely.

Nice machine, worst expansion options to date, ie buy it, use it and when it starting to date (to outdate), you can sell it on ebay or trash it.

Apple's anti expansion, anti upgrading policy is frightening people away from the platfrom, which is VERY bad.

Now I want at least 1.6GHz G5 by MWNY or this might be the only and last computer I've ever owned.

G-news

Almost no one except us geeks upgrades their computers. Really.

[quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:
<strong>Almost no one except us geeks upgrades their computers. Really.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yep, I'd say the majority of consumers (say 70 or 80%) don't upgrade their computers. This is who the iMac is targeted at. Remember, Apple isn't out to get everyone to buy an iMac just the people who's profile it fits. I think this new iMac is going to fit many peoples profile quite well. It'll reinvigorate the iMac sales (even if it scares off a few people due to it's price tag)

[quote]Originally posted by G-News:
<strong>Apple's anti expansion, anti upgrading policy is frightening people away from the platfrom, which is VERY bad.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't agree. The typical consumer (e.g. newbie, mom & dad, non-hardcore computer user) has very little to no reason to upgrade. While my opinion is simply that, opinion; it is based on over 10 years of experience with family and friends that don't have my hardcore geek needs. Frankly, they NEVER upgrade (again, my non-geek family & friends).

Besides, the firewire and USB provides all the type of expandability/ugradeability (sp?) that any of the above group will need.

So please explain to me what group of people you think "want" an iMac need the expandability of a Powermac? Other than yourself or any of the people on AI, because come on, let's all fess up, we're all a little geek otherwise we wouldn't be hangin out on this board discussing future hardware...

I agree a fan would be most unfortunate.

And I agree also there's most likely such a fan inside, otherwise he wouldn't have failed to mention it. Sad, sad, sad....

Well, it's got the power supply inside and this graphics card and a G4, all of which make some heat,...

I'm afraid I don't believe those who say there is no fan. I bet there is one. And at the beginning it will be very quiet, but after half a year of operation, or a full year, it will start whirrling, like rrrRRRRrrrrRRRrrrrRRRRrrrrRRRrrr and then you'll just shake the thing a little bit to see if that helps, but oooooopps, you find this thing doesn't like being shaked and it shows you a big, blinking TILT TILT and starts making this noise, like Beeeeeeeeeeeeepppppppppppp and then you go and pull the plug and that will have been it...... ((((

yeah, but remember too that the new imac doesn't have a CRT..and that's a huge thermal savings...enough to crowd in a G4 and an upgraded graphics chipset.

I serious hope there's no fan in there: otherwise I might stick with my Cube.

The cube is one SOLID BRICK of electronics, yet is cooled with convection... niiiiice and quiet. But it's also a couple of inches off the table. Hmmm.

The Register <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/23563.html" target="_blank">got to play with one</a> and they say there's a fan.

[quote]
As for noise, the new iMac does have a fan to cool the G4 and the NVidia GeForce 2MX graphics card. We're told that the design goal was to ensure the fan is no noisier than the hard disk, and Apple tells us the noise emission is a reasonable 25 decibels.
<hr></blockquote>

So much for that.

My question (as a longtime Powerbook and iBook user) is, does the fan run while the iMac is asleep? Is that true in the G4 towers? I know a friend's Rev. C iMac has the fan running even during sleep, and it's annoying; they always turn it off instead of sleeping for that reason.

As for noise, the new iMac does have a fan to cool the G4 and the NVidia GeForce 2MX graphics card. We're told that the design goal was to ensure the fan is no noisier than the hard disk, and Apple tells us the noise emission is a reasonable 25 decibels.

quote from

<a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/23563.html" target="_blank">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/23563.html</a>

Trapdoor

[quote]So please explain to me what group of people you think "want" an iMac need the expandability of a Powermac? Other than yourself or any of the people on AI, because come on, let's all fess up, we're all a little geek otherwise we wouldn't be hangin out on this board discussing future hardware...<hr></blockquote>

The poor college student. I can't afford a Powermac, but I want a good computer, and I want to be able to have 10GBs of Mp3s and lots of movies and the ability to play the latest and greatest games!!! The 2MX is already outdated, and in two years it will be as slow as the Rage is today.

If I could upgrade the graphics card, add internal storage, and maybe up the screen size, I would buy one of the new iMacs right now. They got so damn close to making a perfect machine for me, but they didn't quite make it. It'll sell like friggin hotcakes to other people though.


ps - I have an iMac, but I don't keep it in the kitchen, nor do I look up recipies on it. I do a ton of school work on it, along with gaming, some photoshop, some iMovie, and lots of music and movies. I need a semi-powerful machine that is affordable on a college budget.

[quote]

Apple's anti expansion, anti upgrading policy is frightening people away from the platfrom, which is VERY bad.

<hr></blockquote>

I total agree with you. This is a VERY big problem for the Macintosh platform. If people perceptions (just like Mhz) are that the iMac's aren't upgradable, then they will pass them up.

And for all of those think nobody upgrades (except for geeks) you don't know what you are talking about. Just for one example, CompUSA sell tons and tons of internal CD-R drives.

Just who do think they are selling these things to? Geeks only. They are selling to geeks, consumers, and professionals. And they are selling tons of them. When you replace a CD-ROM drive or an 8X CD-R drive with a 24X CD-R drive. Guess what? Its an upgrade.
This is what "us" upgraders are talking about and this is what people "think" they want.

Thanks

Dave

[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: Dave K. ]</p>

The new iMacs are amazing in every way.

Love the new iMac!

but:

would've preferred the headphone socket on the front.


But hey! it won't stop me buying one.

Well, there's still hope that with technological progress they will, one day, manage to dispense with the fan. I hate fans.

quote:

Yep, I'd say the majority of consumers (say 70 or 80%) don't upgrade their computers. This is who the iMac is targeted at. Remember, Apple isn't out to get everyone to buy an iMac just the people who's profile it fits. I think this new iMac is going to fit many peoples profile quite well. It'll reinvigorate the iMac sales (even if it scares off a few people due to it's price tag)

You are kidding right? Do you really think that only 20-30% upgrades? I think that about 70% of the people that i know have upgraded their graphic cards. I wish [even though it wont be the case] that the new imac has the ability to be upgraded as far as the graphic card goes [and dont tell me that..."32MB are more than you will ever need" I remember a guy who said something similar for the computer RAM requirements a few years ago and his sentence became a joke...]
If the imacs graphics card can be upgraded i will buy one. If not i ll wait for the G5 powermacs [even if that means that i will have to wait for more than 1 year].

Bezbozny

[quote]Originally posted by Dave K.:
<strong>quote:
_______________
quote:

Apple's anti expansion, anti upgrading policy is frightening people away from the platfrom, which is VERY bad.
_______________

I total agree with you. This is a VERY big problem for the Macintosh platform. If people perceptions (just like Mhz) are that the iMac's aren't upgradable, then they will pass them up.

And for all of those think nobody upgrades (except for geeks) you don't know what you are talking about. Just for one example, CompUSA sell tons and tons of internal CD-R drives.

Just who do think they are selling these things to? Geeks only. They are selling to geeks, consumers, and professionals. And they are selling tons of them. When you replace a CD-ROM drive or an 8X CD-R drive with a 24X CD-R drive. Guess what? Its an upgrade.
This is what "us" upgraders are talking about and this is what people "think" they want.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

And just exactly what evidence do you have of this? The iMac outsells the PowerMacs by a huge margin. Apple's sale volumes are increasing!

There is also the small fact that if you want to be able to fit new optical drives into a machine you restrict the form factor, the new iMac wont accept any old CD-R drive, if you want one it will be external, or you go fo a different machine. Think in terms of HiFi, I have a system of expensive non-matching separates, that gives me what I want, and I can upgrade the individual items, but the vast majority of people want an all-in-one system that looks good.

Try not to think of this iMac as a computer, but as a household appliance that a householder will be proud to have in their living room, and it performs its functions correctly.

Michael

[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: mmicist ]</p>

Looks like the power suply is inside too. You'd think Apple would go with the external one like the cube has. Also they used that fscking nonstandard (i know i know there's no standard) power cord.

Tl - I want a super computer with the power of Pixars rendering farm with the usability of an ambidexterous tin opener and the expandability of a lego village. I can't aford it... therefore I cant have it and Steve won't make it for me. Comprendes vous?

[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: Graphite ]</p>

I am surprised to read in these posts that the new iMac has a fan. Where can you fit a fan on that thing?... :confused: I won't believe it 'til I hear it...

As for the people bitching about lack of upgradability and video chip not up to date, well it has been the same since the first iMac. This machine targets the general folks who don't need all the bells & whistles and who won't tinker with the machine 'til they buy another one... in 5 to 10 years!
It's cheap, friendly to use, still packs a good punch and looks very good on your desk.

I do Mac support on the side, you guys should see the Macs I get to service. I've been working a lot on LC's Power Macs 7100's and 7200's and performas lately, trying to convince their owners to buy a new Mac, some of them do not feel the need for it. I know a teacher who still uses a Mac IIvx (68030 processor!) running System 7.1 and Word 5 to do all his work! even runs Photoshop 2.5 on it for scanning family photos and sending them by E-mail on a 28.8K modem!. There is a HUGE market for casual users.

If you want a machine to tinker with then the iMac is just NOT FOR YOU. I own 6 Macs personally all being used on a regular basis but one:

AT HOME: a Mac Plus with external 40GB drive and an imagewriter (this is for decoration of course, I sometimes turn it on and let the screen saver go, makes a conversation piece!), a PM7100/66 AV which I use for SCI connectivity (scanner, Zip drive), networked to an iMac 400MHz (summer 2000) which I use mostly for Internet, gaming, some light work (Photoshop, Illustrator, Quark), and the dreaded Office 2001 that I have to launch once in a while. My girlfriend also uses it for fashion design freelance jobs on occasion.

AT WORK: a Quadra 950 (Ykes!!) that I use for communicating with my Scitex Imagesetter, since a PCI or PowerPC upgrade would cost me approximately $15.000 for the 2 fiber optics communication cards and dongle; a UmaxJ700 which I use as a Print server for my color proofer and as a scan station, my main work horse is a Beige G3 MiniTower, with a G4 500MHz processor upgrade, 70GB total HD space, 512MB of RAM, a Nexus 128 (Rage) 32MB video card driving a Sony 19" G400, while the original 2MB VRAM is used to drive a 14" apple monitors (For those pesky tool palettes...)... adding to that a variety of peripherals.

MY POINT IS: I bought myself an iMac last year because I wanted a cheap computer for home. I love tinkering with my Macs, so I do find the lack of upgradability very annoying, but I decided on the purchase knowing that fact. So far I swaped the 10GB drive for a 40GB ATA100, HUGE difference, and just added a bunch of RAM. Next step, swapping the internal CD ROM drive for a CD-RW at the very least. After that, I'm stuck... probably will be selling by next fall to get a newer model. I NEVER REGRETTED MY PURCHASE. I probably will be swapping it in 2003 for a brand new iMac again, unless Apple comes up with something better.

ON another note, why the hell did they ever come up with that stupid slot loaded drive? you can't put anything else than regular CD's in there... this is one thing I really like about the New iMac: GOODBYE SLOT LOADED !!!

BOTTOM LINE IS: an iMac is NOT a work horse, and was not designed with this in mind. You want a work horse, pay the price and get what you actually need. It might seem a steep purchase if it's your 1st mac, but the day you decide to change your Tower, you can sell the Tower alone for a good price, easily up to $1000 if it's between 2-3 years old, keep your screen and peripherals then you only have to buy a new Tower, with almost half of it already paid for.

This is a very good advantage that the Mac has over the PC: a higher resale value.

I will probably get myself a G4 (G5?) for work in 2002 because my Souped-up G3 is getting a little slow compared to what's available out there, and then sell my Umax. I got a buyer for $500, believe it or not! That's a 5 year old machine!

So people, please don't complain about the iMac's features when what you need is a Tower...

Gee I can't believe I wrote all this.

[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>Looks like the power suply is inside too. You'd think Apple would go with the external one like the cube has. Also they used that fscking nonstandard (i know i know there's no standard) power cord.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I've seen that same power chord elsewhere

[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>Looks like the power suply is inside too. You'd think Apple would go with the external one like the cube has. Also they used that fscking nonstandard (i know i know there's no standard) power cord.</strong><hr></blockquote>


I suspect they need the weigght of the power supply in the base to keep the whole think stable, thet screen can stick out quite a bit.

Michael

I think the new iMac totally Rocks. It's the same as the first iMac in terms of upgradeability, and that's not for me, but the first iMac sold VERY well, so apparently there are plenty of people out there who don't care. I just wish Apple would drop the prices on their Powermac towers a bit, so they are more affordable.

As a student, I found a discontinued powermac G4 for $1100, so if you're on a budget there are ways to get a tower, but you've got to really want one.

But damn, that new iMac is as new of a design as the first iMac was. Way to go, Apple! Ives should get a medal of some sort...oh yeah, he already did. And that iBook--SWEET! Now the ibook is perfect, it's got a good sized screen and it's the right price.

And the iMac, thankfully Apple has some cheaper versions. $1800 is a bit steep, even for a superdrive, but 1299 isn't too bad. I'm sure the price will come down by the end of this year.

But the best thing about the iMac, is the G4! Finally altivec is brought to the masses. This is a big step for Apple, and I also think it means that G5 powermacs are on their way...

[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>

I've seen that same power chord elsewhere</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yo-yo laptop adapter

New one has a fan alright.

Actually the monitor in the old iMac did create a hot upstream airflow that sucked cold air thru the bottom!

[quote]Originally posted by MacAgent:
<strong>

Yo-yo laptop adapter</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yea but the MickyMouse plug goes into the power adapter. So it would seem the "power adapter" is in the iMac.

I expecetd to see a hole for a lock device on the back. Is that the hole on the far left?

Does the Apple on the front also act as a power light. Does it throb like the iBook one does?

I sell computers and parts for computers and believe me, MANY people upgrade their machines, and they are mostly NOT computer geeks. This has been a major complaint of mine since the first iMac came out, but you know what? This new iMac is much more powerful than the previous models and with 32 Mb of Video Ram I don't think lack of upgradeability is such a problem.

The inability to change or choose your own screen may be an issue for some but Apple does make very good LCDs, if not the best.

At first I thought the new iMac was butt ugly but its starting to grow on me. I actually just got an email from a diehard PC user I work with who says she wants one! It looks like a desklamp, but it has appeal to many people. My main problem with it is that its not black. Why can't Apple make a black version of it? A white one and a black one. Hey, desk lamps come in different colors, why not this new iMac? I've been wanting a black iMac since day one and I had better get used to the fact that there isn't going to be one!

As for Jonathan Ive, this was really not his idea. He had shown his new iMac idea to Jobs, which looked like a shallower version of the old iMac and Jobs told him he wanted it to look like a sunflower! It delayed the new iMac for 2 years. Jobs really has issues, but we all knew that. :cool:

Since the $1299 model isn't coming out till March, I can hope that Apple lowers the price of the base tower to $1299. That might be my first choice, along with a $200 NEC blck monitor.......................

Look familiar?

I don't understand what is such the big deal about having/not having a fan? Are we talking about a specific kind of fan (a case fan vs. a CPU fan)? I have a rev A (or B) here and it already has a case fan (as I thought all later iMacs did). So I don't see why a fan in the new iMac is really that controversal (if iMacs have been using fans for some time already). It would certainly be nice to be completely fanless, but no feature has been lost with today's iMac having a fan.

Also, let's get back into perspective here. One quiet, low effort fan in an iMac is not automatically equivalent to the howling case fans and CPU coolers you see in a PC tower. I've experienced a bit of that, and they certainly can be horrendous noise generators. ...But that doesn't mean that all fans are (or have to be) like that. I'm confident that Apple knew to use a quiet fan in the new iMac to preserve the essence of earlier iMacs.

Now HD whine on the other hand... They can be really quiet or really noisy, and that can even vary from part to part of the same product. They can even get more noisy with age. That's something (IMO, speaking in the iMac/PowerMac arena, specifically) that we all should be more concerned about. If the HD isn't quiet, the fan noise doesn't even matter. Apple may know about quiet fans, but I hope they also know about quiet HD's.

RandyCat99: As far as I know, iMacs have never had a fan.

The one saving grace for fans of no fans (I think) is that the powersource is probably in the top of the new iMac and so the heat could rise quickly up without interfering with the motherboard on the bottom (according to details gleaned from the Time article). Even if the G4 was a little warm, you are right, it may require only the smallest and quietest of fans to get the convection going.

I still think the graphite crt iMac rocks!

Hey Modena, are you a Dell engineer working overtime to copycat Apple after today's MW?

[quote]Originally posted by MacGregor:
<strong>RandyCat99: As far as I know, iMacs have never had a fan.

The one saving grace for fans of no fans (I think) is that the powersource is probably in the top of the new iMac and so the heat could rise quickly up without interfering with the motherboard on the bottom (according to details gleaned from the Time article). Even if the G4 was a little warm, you are right, it may require only the smallest and quietest of fans to get the convection going.

I still think the graphite crt iMac rocks!</strong><hr></blockquote>


all iMac up to revision e (slot loading) had fans.