or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac OS X › Apple yanks wireless backup from Leopard last minute
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple yanks wireless backup from Leopard last minute

post #1 of 155
Thread Starter 
To the dismay of what is sure to be many, Apple Inc. appears to have pulled one of the more compelling features of its Leopard operating system last minute: the ability to use its revolutionary Time Machine backup software with wireless AirPort Disks.

"It looks like Time Machine will not work with AirPort Disks after all," HelgeG, a members of the company's technical support forums, wrote in a post Thursday afternoon. "All references to AirPort have been removed from the Time Machine page."

In the months and weeks leading up to this evening's launch of Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, Apple had widely touted the feature under the tag line "Effortless meets wireless."

"With a hard disk connected to your AirPort Extreme Base Station, all the Macs in your house can use Time Machine to back up wirelessly," read an earlier description of the feature on the company's website. "Simply select your AirPort Disk as the backup disk for each computer and the whole family can enjoy the benefits of Time Machine."

However, as of last week, all references to wireless backup via Time Machine had been stricken from Apple.com. A new description of Time Machine's compatible backup drives options reads as follows:

"You can designate just about any HFS+ formatted FireWire or USB drive connected to a Mac as a Time Machine backup drive. Time Machine can also back up to another Mac running Leopard with Personal File Sharing, Leopard Server, or Xsan storage devices."

The apparent about-face on Apple's part has already frustrated a number of would-be Leopard users, several of which had not only been looking forward to the convenience of the wireless solution, but also went out and purchased AirPort Extreme 802.11n Base Stations from the company in anticipation of the feature.

"Ouch! I just purchased and installed and AirPort Express Gigabit expressly for the purpose of having network attached storage that I could backup my iMac and my wife's PowerBook to using Time Machine," wrote etaxif, another member of Apple's support forums. "A few days ago this was a feature I found Apple was going to support and now it's gone? I'm very disappointed."

"I'm in the same boat. I purchased a AirPort Extreme solely to use it as a Time Machine backup disk," said another. "I was all ready to purchase Leopard next Friday, but I guess I'll wait now to see if an AirPort Disk is truly supported by Time Machine."



In its own checks, AppleInsider was able to confirm the absence of any AirPort Disk support in the version of Time Machine due to go on sale at 6:00 p.m. today as part of Leopard, even though earlier pre-release betas of the software had supported the feature. In addition, all references to wireless backup were also removed from the Time Machine help files included with the distribution.

AirPort Disk backup support is not the only feature to have fallen victim to Apple's self-imposed October launch deadline for Leopard. Last week AppleInsider noted that the ability to sync Mail notes to iPhone had seemingly also been axed.

Obviously, the hope is that Apple continues to refine these features -- and others that may have missed the cut --with the intention of releasing them in the coming months as part of a Leopard software update.
post #2 of 155
Not only were the secret features yanked, we get several announced ones yanked too.
post #3 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Not only were the secret features yanked, we get several announced ones yanked too.

Yeah, way to go Apple!!! Start selling a product and THEN remove features from it!! It's like ordering a car and between the order time and the delivery time the airbags go missing. I can smell another class action...
post #4 of 155
Is Apple able to include these additional features and still comply with Sarbanes Oxley?
post #5 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by hohlecow View Post

Is Apple able to include these additional features and still comply with Sarbanes Oxley?

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly does the Sarbanes-Oxley Act got to do with this?
post #6 of 155
Big deal! So Apple yanked one or two small (and I do mean SMALL) sub-features before release. Maybe it had some problems and wasn't ready. Would you rather have the feature and lose data? I think Apple's done this in the past once or twice. Something isn't ready for the Gold Master, so they don't put it in and release it in a later update.

You can pretty much simulate this feature by sharing an external disk on a second computer.

At least Apple stayed on schedule.
post #7 of 155
Here is a link to my quick easy workaround to getting airport disk working with time machine.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...99#post4389999
post #8 of 155
I'm figuring that Apple found in testing that most Time Machine users wanted a full system backup. That would take a long time, even on 802.11n (which a large number of Leopard buyers can't even use.

Of course, I'd like to find a way to do an initial backup over GigE, then incrementals over wireless. But I'll be backing up to ZFS on Solaris 10!


Quote:
"With a hard disk connected to your AirPort Extreme Base Station, all the Macs in your house can use Time Machine to back up wirelessly," read an earlier description of the feature on the company's website. "Simply select your AirPort Disk as the backup disk for each computer and the whole family can enjoy the benefits of Time Machine."
post #9 of 155
Let's not get too defensive, here. We're all Apple fans here.

It's unfortunate that they had to ship Leopard with this feature off. I, too, was looking to buy AirPort Extreme to do just this across 3 Mac in my household. I'm happy now that I'd waited before I started buying all that hardware. It's certainly lame, and Apple should be criticized duly.

With that said, this most likely isn't a case of Apple "pulling" a feature at the last minute (like MS "pulled" so many features out of Vista), but likely a minor bug that prompted them to temporarily turn the feature off. It will likely come back in the first or second point update.
post #10 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard View Post

Big deal! So Apple yanked one or two small (and I do mean SMALL) sub-features before release. Maybe it had some problems and wasn't ready. Would you rather have the feature and lose data? I think Apple's done this in the past once or twice. Something isn't ready for the Gold Master, so they don't put it in and release it in a later update.

You can pretty much simulate this feature by sharing an external disk on a second computer.

At least Apple stayed on schedule.

Are you kidding? You must be smoking way too much pot, because you seem to forget that 10.5 is NOT on schedule.
post #11 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by camimac View Post

Yeah, way to go Apple!!! Start selling a product and THEN remove features from it!! It's like ordering a car and between the order time and the delivery time the airbags go missing. I can smell another class action...

Ah yes... the howling at the moon begins.
Get a clue... features miss release. Welcome to the real world.
The fact that it was on the list in the first place means that it will be out as soon as its reliably working. (Want to see how many MORE people would be pissed if it had been shoehorned in and it didn't work properly?)

And finally, anyone who buys based on rumors of features is a f**cking idiot.
post #12 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by smashingnick View Post

Here is a link to my quick easy workaround to getting airport disk working with time machine.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...99#post4389999

HELLO??? Read this (and other) posts...there is a hack to get it to work.
Annapolis, MD
Mac Mini Core Duo
MacBook
Reply
Annapolis, MD
Mac Mini Core Duo
MacBook
Reply
post #13 of 155
Does this mean backing up to an afp share will still be possible? Im assuming so.
post #14 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonD View Post

HELLO??? Read this (and other) posts...there is a hack to get it to work.

That's not the point, do you know many people who will bother? Isn't the whole idea of the Mac that "it just works" (even though that's just one of the worst marketing mottos I've ever seen in my life)?
post #15 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonD View Post

HELLO??? Read this (and other) posts...there is a hack to get it to work.

Hack ≠ Feature.
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
Reply
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
Reply
post #16 of 155
Whaaaat

I bought two airport extreme to use it with time machine.

Hope this will be there in a next update of the system. Like the Apple TV, they update the possibility to wirelessly see photos with it.

Let's go Apple, I did not buy those airport extreme for nothing
post #17 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by smashingnick View Post

Here is a link to my quick easy workaround to getting airport disk working with time machine.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...99#post4389999

I get all of it except for AFP? Sorry, what does it stand for? Thanks for the help.
post #18 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Ah yes... the howling at the moon begins.
Get a clue... features miss release. Welcome to the real world.
The fact that it was on the list in the first place means that it will be out as soon as its reliably working. (Want to see how many MORE people would be pissed if it had been shoehorned in and it didn't work properly?)

And finally, anyone who buys based on rumors of features is a f**cking idiot.

It wasn't exactly a rumor. Apple had it plastered as a prominant feature on their website a week ago. How's that being an idiot?
post #19 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigi View Post

Whaaaat

I bought two airport extreme to use it with time machine.

Hope this will be there in a next update of the system. Like the Apple TV, they update the possibility to wirelessly see photos with it.

Let's go Apple, I did not buy those airport extreme for nothing

They don't want a rash of AirPorts dying, I've burned out Airports in the past from transmittin too much through them. I think it'll be back, there was probably a few bugs they couldn't live with.
post #20 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojod View Post

I get all of it except for AFP? Sorry, what does it stand for? Thanks for the help.

AFP is Appleshare File Protocol.
post #21 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by roehlstation View Post

They don't want a rash of AirPorts dying, I've burned out Airports in the past from transmittin too much through them. I think it'll be back, there was probably a few bugs they couldn't live with.

I don't think anyone is accusing them of being careful, but of selling a product and then removing features from it. Come on, not even Microsoft did that with Vista, some features might have been axed, but at least when you bought it you knew what to expect.
post #22 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by camimac View Post

Are you kidding? You must be smoking way too much pot, because you seem to forget that 10.5 is NOT on schedule.

I think you're the one that needs to smoke some pot and relax!

Yeah, I know about the one announced delay. Again, what's the BIG deal? That's one 3-month delay. But they did deliver on the new date announced.

Bunch of whiners or what!
post #23 of 155
Apparently Apple also yanked iPhone Notes syncing and temporary stacks (grab a bunch of random files and drag them to the dock to create a quick stack).
post #24 of 155
Apple had to change HFS+ to support 'multilinks' aka multiple hard links in Leopard, for Time Machine to work. [1]

My guess is, first time you connect an HFS+ disk to Leopard, it 'enables' it for mutli-linking. Hence why these workarounds work - the Airport Extreme itself cant enable mutli-linking, but after you've hooked the disk into your mac, its enabled, and so is valid when shared over AFP from the Airport Extreme.

This explains why the official line is that network Time Machine backups require a Leopard host... because the remote host has to have enabled the multi-linking feature on the backup volume's HFS+ filesystem.

I strongly suspect a forthcoming Airport Extreme firmware update will address this problem, and enable Time Machine backing up to AirDisks.

[1] http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ne.html&page=2

"Time Machine does something new and different that actually required Apple to make changes to the underlying Mac file system, HFS+. The new change is referred to multi-links, which are similar to "hard links" common to Unix users..."

NB: Click to the next page of that article for a really good technical explanation of how Time Machine works.
post #25 of 155
Personal File Sharing works wirelessly, so mount your drive and back up to it and stop complaining.
post #26 of 155
Folks,

Since the feature was pulled at the last minute, it was either deemed to be:

A) too unstable to use reliably

B) too slow to be practical

If it was reliability, they'll fix it. Too slow, well, that sucks but we will live.

This IS backup software. It has to be rock solid. If it's not, you THINK you are backed up, but you are NOT. I used to be in the storage business, and fielding a call from a customer who did backup wrong, or lost the backup, or it was corrupted and wouldn't restore, is awful.

I tried doing backup using a different utility across Airport Extreme to a mounted USB drive using a third party product that works great on FW400 or USB2, but took a whole day to do incremental updates. If Apple is having the same experience, it's laws of physics. For this, I'll ding them, because they should have been able to calculate the load and bandwidth better.

My guess? A.
post #27 of 155
Does anybody know if it is just the wireless functionality that is a problem?

Can you still backup multiple machines to an AirPort Extreme base station that is connected to the Macs via a physical Ethernet cable?

Is it just me or is Leopard the biggest disappointment?
OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
Reply
OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
Reply
post #28 of 155
So I have a PowerBook and not always have an external drive hooked up. I'm thinking about having TM over the network on a desktop with an external attached. I wonder how performance is in backing up over the network as well as using TM to recover files over the network. One thing I always notice is that if I have a computer hard wired to a wireless router, my laptop never sees it under Network in Finder. I always have to go to the hard-wired machine and write down it's afp address and manually enter it on my laptop. Maybe this is fixed in Leopard.
post #29 of 155
crees - Time Machine will do a backup every time you connect an external disk, if its overdue. This, i think, is a good solution for laptop users.
post #30 of 155
This just means they didn't work out the bugs in time. I'll bet it shows up again in .1 or .2. Bummer for people who bought an airport just for this, but it wasn't a smart move, you should never buy hardware based on assumptions about potential future software features.

Overall, Leopard has been working great so far, I've even had some hardware work fine that I expected would need driver updates. It seems like some people have their panties in a bunch over relatively minor issues.
post #31 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh View Post

It wasn't exactly a rumor. Apple had it plastered as a prominant feature on their website a week ago. How's that being an idiot?

Ok... hyperbole.
But nevertheless, making a hardware investment based on a proposed feature for an as-yet unreleased product is skating pretty close to the edge. I don't buy 1.0 anything, let alone make committments based on it.

My rant is more about the knee-jerk 'I'M GONNA SUE!!!!" idiocy.
post #32 of 155
I don't really get what Apple achieve by removing features in such an Orwellian style. Why can't they publicise their intent? If a feature disappears, we are left having to guess whether or not it is simply delayed, or they found some fundamental issue that is going to stop it ever being rolled out (aside from through hacks).

Where something involves an investment that may already have been made by an individual and they are left in limbo unsure whether they should be finding another solution / returning an item or whatever then it's only decent that the company should reveal their intentions.

I've not been caught out by this feature drop and it doesn't bother me much. Ok I've spent the past week looking at various NAS enclosures for a couple of external drives I have sitting around here simply for use as a Time Machine backup disk but hey ho, that's how it goes.

It's not a show stopper or deal breaker or other overly dramatic event, but I do understand why this gets some peoples backs up against Apple. After all, it is an officially stated feature that may have swayed me to make a purchase - it was possible to pre-order Leopard while this feature was listed wasn't it? I would question the legality of this move, whereas if a statement was made saying oops we didn't make it in time but the feature will be enabled in the coming months then this would just be a small delay to live with, sure people would moan but at the end of the day it would be supplied.

Now time for home... hopefully there'll be a nice box sitting waiting for me
post #33 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

You, by far!

I guess I'm just jaded because I've been using it for a while.
OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
Reply
OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
Reply
post #34 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

My rant is more about the knee-jerk 'I'M GONNA SUE!!!!" idiocy.

No need to go overboard on either side.

People who bought based upon advertised features have a legitimate gripe. At the same time, I doubt apple would give anyone a moment's trouble in returning either product because of the dropped feature.
post #35 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Ok... hyperbole.
But nevertheless, making a hardware investment based on a proposed feature for an as-yet unreleased product is skating pretty close to the edge. I don't buy 1.0 anything, let alone make committments based on it.

My rant is more about the knee-jerk 'I'M GONNA SUE!!!!" idiocy.

The only "knee-jerk idiocy" here is you calling people idiots, when you were the one who was wrong.
post #36 of 155
YOU smell of poo...

...no YOU smell of poo



Grow up. We're trying to have an adult discussion here.
OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
Reply
OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
Reply
post #37 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Ok... hyperbole.
But nevertheless, making a hardware investment based on a proposed feature for an as-yet unreleased product is skating pretty close to the edge. I don't buy 1.0 anything, let alone make committments based on it.

My rant is more about the knee-jerk 'I'M GONNA SUE!!!!" idiocy.

Uh.. if I'm not mistaken, it was on their website AFTER they started selling Leopard on their store. One should be able to assume that the leopard they describe on their website matches the one they sell there too... otherwise it's false advertising.

...and I'm not talking about infomercial-I-though-this-product-would-work-magnificently-but-its-actually-a-piece-of-crap-but-I-got-hosed-so-I'm-out-of-luck false adversiting. I'm talking about legal this-is-what-you-get-when-you-buy-this-product-but-oh-wait-its-not-here false advertising.

Technically, this could become a legal issue.

Usually I'm one of the ones who chides these lawsuits as well, but this one is legit. Technically.

-Clive
My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
Reply
My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
Reply
post #38 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

My rant is more about the knee-jerk 'I'M GONNA SUE!!!!" idiocy.

Who mentioned suing anyone? It looks like you're the one that brought it up.
post #39 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Please delete this crap. Your post is anything but "adult."

No kidding! He was making a point!

Geez!
post #40 of 155
[QUOTE=Abster2core;1163363]You, by far![/QUOTE

NO- the biggest dissapointment is the AppleTV- a $400 VHS quality- criossant warming piecs of you know what. Hey maybe I can use it as the external hard drive required in order to use Time Machine ( you know the $129 application in disguise as OS lepoard)! Why didn't Steve ever mention that we would need to buy an external hard drive on order to use this "new" OS? Never once mentioned in any preview until posted 2 weeks ago. Oh, I'm sorry -it must have been so obvious!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Mac OS X
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac OS X › Apple yanks wireless backup from Leopard last minute