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Why is Internet Explorer so bad?

post #1 of 76
Thread Starter 
Why is it just dog slow?
Why is every single windows browser better?

Why is even mozilla faster?

I hate microsoft
post #2 of 76
With the exception of Java stuff, I don't have any problems with IE 5.1.
post #3 of 76
It's not.
Windows is better than MacOS for web browsing.
Well, only marginally faster.

You must have something wrong with your computer or it must just be old if you think IE is so slow... that is, unless you are comparing it to a fairly new PC running IE. IE on my Mac is just snappy.

[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
post #4 of 76
Thread Starter 
That's strange. I've got a g4 533 digital audio with a 1.5mbps cable modem.

10.1.1 with sosumi.
post #5 of 76
IE5.1 is a shitty piece of software.

Maybe i'd like it if it A. used native aqua interface elements, b. used quartz AA, C. didn't not render half of th epages on the web...
post #6 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by starfleetX:
<strong>It's not.
Windows is better than MacOS for web browsing.
Well, only marginally faster.

You must have something wrong with your computer or it must just be old if you think IE is so slow... that is, unless you are comparing it to a fairly new PC running IE. IE on my Mac is just snappy.

[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

oh come on... IE for the mac is crap compared to the windows version. it has a few nicer features and supposedly is more compatible but the speed and responsiveness sucks. rendering speed is horrible and it doesn't take advantage of any OS X specific features such as sheets, quartz, etc.
post #7 of 76
Thread Starter 
For the past day I have been using mozilla 0.9.6..

The rendering speed is VERY fast. Try loading versiontracker with explorer and then try it with mozilla. wow. Also mozilla lets you change the speed of the scrollwheel which is really cool.

The only drawback is that mozilla uses it's own themes instead of using osx's extra.rscr file.

Then sosumi would work for mozilla too!
Maybe sinewave should make a sosumi theme for netscape.. :cool:
post #8 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by corvette:
<strong>That's strange. I've got a g4 533 digital audio with a 1.5mbps cable modem.

10.1.1 with sosumi.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't think sosumi would effect your web browsing speed
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post #9 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>

oh come on... IE for the mac is crap compared to the windows version. it has a few nicer features and supposedly is more compatible but the speed and responsiveness sucks. rendering speed is horrible and it doesn't take advantage of any OS X specific features such as sheets, quartz, etc.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Carbon apps so far can't use Quartz for text rendering. That is why Omniweb is the only browser that does so. Have you tried any of the Sneaky Peek versions of Omniweb 4.1?

<a href="http://www.omnigroup.com/ftp/pub/outgoing/sneakypeek/" target="_blank">http://www.omnigroup.com/ftp/pub/outgoing/sneakypeek/</a>
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post #10 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by corvette:
<strong>For the past day I have been using mozilla 0.9.6..

The rendering speed is VERY fast. Try loading versiontracker with explorer and then try it with mozilla. wow. Also mozilla lets you change the speed of the scrollwheel which is really cool.

The only drawback is that mozilla uses it's own themes instead of using osx's extra.rscr file.

Then sosumi would work for mozilla too!
Maybe sinewave should make a sosumi theme for netscape.. :cool: </strong><hr></blockquote>

Not sure how Netscape makes themes.. where is the documentation for this?
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post #11 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by Sinewave:
<strong>

Carbon apps so far can't use Quartz for text rendering. That is why Omniweb is the only browser that does so. Have you tried any of the Sneaky Peek versions of Omniweb 4.1?

<a href="http://www.omnigroup.com/ftp/pub/outgoing/sneakypeek/" target="_blank">http://www.omnigroup.com/ftp/pub/outgoing/sneakypeek/</a></strong><hr></blockquote>


but Office uses quartz for text rendering in certain parts and is all carbon.

have tried a few sneakypeaks. nothing special. try to like omniweb but it just annoys me too often in its shortcomings
post #12 of 76
Office pisses me off too - in lieu of Quickdraw AA in the main workspaces, it uses _NONE_. Therefore, the change from quartz AA to none = quite drastic and ugly.

Also, the platinum controls in web pages in IE5 = UGH
post #13 of 76
Thread Starter 
Have you guys tried out Euntorage v.x yet?

It looks very windowx xpish. It is going to take some time before I get used to this app. It looks very bloated but the calendar looks very nice.
post #14 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>


but Office uses quartz for text rendering in certain parts and is all carbon.<hr></blockquote></strong>
In Window dialogs it can use Quartz. For text you type out it can't
<strong> [quote]
have tried a few sneakypeaks. nothing special. try to like omniweb but it just annoys me too often in its shortcomings</strong><hr></blockquote>
Seems lots of things "annoy" you too much.
Why don't you email omniweb over and over again and bitch and complain and DEMAND them to change the annoying parts just to suit you?

[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: Sinewave ]</p>
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post #15 of 76
[quote]In Window dialogs it can use Quartz. For text you type out it can't<hr></blockquote>

and the reason behind this is? I don't understand why Excel would be able to use antialiased graphics but word would not be able to use text.

[quote]Seems lots of things "annoy" you too much.
Why don't you email omniweb over and over again and bitch and complain and DEMAND them to change the annoying parts just to suit you? <hr></blockquote>

how about no. they are working on them and are open to changes and suggestions unlike some other places I know.
post #16 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>
and the reason behind this is? I don't understand why Excel would be able to use antialiased graphics but word would not be able to use text.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's not supported in Carbon. Carbon can't directly access Quartz yet. BUT I HAVE heard that there is a hack you COULD use through QuickDraw to do this. But it is buggy and doesn't provide consistent results.
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post #17 of 76
What bout the finder, Sinewave?

That's carbon, and it accesses Quartz. Oh, so does iTunes2 - notice that now, in the "search" field, when you input text, it's antialiased by Quartz...
post #18 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>What bout the finder, Sinewave?

That's carbon, and it accesses Quartz. Oh, so does iTunes2 - notice that now, in the "search" field, when you input text, it's antialiased by Quartz...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ok.. I just asked some one that is a part of the Finder team about this.. Apple hacks quickdraw to use quartz to render text. It's a hack.
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post #19 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by Sinewave:
<strong>
It's not supported in Carbon. Carbon can't directly access Quartz yet. BUT I HAVE heard that there is a hack you COULD use through QuickDraw to do this. But it is buggy and doesn't provide consistent results.</strong><hr></blockquote>

don't mean to bug you if you don't know the answer but that just doesn't make sense.

as shwn several apps such as iTunes and the Finder do have quartz rendering for inputed text, there is quartz rendering for graphics, etc. and isn't quartz rendering being implemented into go live and is in illustrator?
post #20 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by Sinewave:
<strong>Ok.. I just asked some one that is a part of the Finder team about this.. Apple hacks quickdraw to use quartz to render text. It's a hack.</strong><hr></blockquote> Okay, you asked someone on the "Finder team" about this? How believable does that sound?

For CoreGraphics, the default for Carbon apps is to retain the old-style OS9-era font smoothing. The newer AA is certainly available, but is not the default because Carbon apps were expected to be the "bridge crossing" apps that would work in both OS9 and OSX. Several new Carbon apps like the Finder, iTunes, and Snapz (many others I'm sure, but I'm not at my X machine now) have been written to properly take advantage of AA. IE and Office v.X are just examples of shoddy, poorly-coded ports.

[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
post #21 of 76
Not necessarily shoddy... just not all the way to where they should be.

Maybe someday...
post #22 of 76
Okay okay, not shoddy, , but certainly not up to the standards that OS X users expect.
post #23 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by starfleetX:
<strong> Okay, you asked someone on the "Finder team" about this? How believable does that sound?

For CoreGraphics, the default for Carbon apps is to retain the old-style OS9-era font smoothing. The newer AA is certainly available, but is not the default because Carbon apps were expected to be the "bridge crossing" apps that would work in both OS9 and OSX. Several new Carbon apps like the Finder, iTunes, and Snapz (many others I'm sure, but I'm not at my X machine now) have been written to properly take advantage of AA. IE and Office v.X are just examples of shoddy, poorly-coded ports.

[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hey..I was just posted what I was told. And yes he DOES work in the Finder Team. Browse has been known to talk shit just to talk shit.

Or Apple really did it that way. Which is probably the case.
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post #24 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by corvette:
<strong>Have you guys tried out Euntorage v.x yet?

It looks very windowx xpish. It is going to take some time before I get used to this app. It looks very bloated but the calendar looks very nice.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I've been using Office v.X and let me get a zip a of water for this........ehem....... IT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!

It's the same bullshit as Office for Mac OS, I can't believe this piece of crap. It isn't worth your money. Don't WAIST YOUR MONEY! Entourage doesn't import from Apple's Mail program for instance. And Entourage is the only Application out of Office that does live resizing, and the live resizing sucks. It is very sluggish! From there on, sheets is pretty much the only new thing and the use of Quartz.

Folks, don't waste your money on this crap. Wait for a later release.

[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: artenman ]</p>
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Artenman
Artist & Web Developer
<a href="http://www.loamic.com" target="_blank">http://www.loamic.com</a>
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Regards,
Artenman
Artist & Web Developer
<a href="http://www.loamic.com" target="_blank">http://www.loamic.com</a>
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post #25 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>

don't mean to bug you if you don't know the answer but that just doesn't make sense.

as shwn several apps such as iTunes and the Finder do have quartz rendering for inputed text, there is quartz rendering for graphics, etc. and isn't quartz rendering being implemented into go live and is in illustrator?</strong><hr></blockquote>

That is so true, you should use Illustrator, beautiful program when in Aqua, and it's carbon. Very very nice. I give Illustrator 10 a 10!
I've been using GoLive for OS X as well, and it uses Quartz as well, like Illustrator. Adobe is working hard on these programs. Golive is using many of the technologies Mac OS X offers.
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Artenman
Artist & Web Developer
<a href="http://www.loamic.com" target="_blank">http://www.loamic.com</a>
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Artenman
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post #26 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by Sinewave:
<strong>

Carbon apps so far can't use Quartz for text rendering. That is why Omniweb is the only browser that does so. Have you tried any of the Sneaky Peek versions of Omniweb 4.1?

<a href="http://www.omnigroup.com/ftp/pub/outgoing/sneakypeek/" target="_blank">http://www.omnigroup.com/ftp/pub/outgoing/sneakypeek/</a></strong><hr></blockquote>

Carbon applications can use Quartz. In fact, Carbon applications are supposed to use Quartz and Unicode for all text.
post #27 of 76
IE5 for mac is the best! Do you have any idea how much better it is than the windows equivilent? Hell, IE6 for windows is just approaching on what IE5 for mac is like.

Now Opera, that rules...
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post #28 of 76
It's a question of keeping 9 compatibility with your carbon apps. But, seeing as Office X and IE 5.1 are both x-only, they have no excuse for not using Quartz and Unicode.


Stupid Microshaft....
post #29 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by artenman:
<strong>

That is so true, you should use Illustrator, beautiful program when in Aqua, and it's carbon. Very very nice. I give Illustrator 10 a 10!
I've been using GoLive for OS X as well, and it uses Quartz as well, like Illustrator. Adobe is working hard on these programs. Golive is using many of the technologies Mac OS X offers.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Are you sure that Adobe apps use Quartz and not Adobe's own engine that they have been using for years?

Acrobat Reader doesn't use Quartz.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

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post #30 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by The Toolboi:
<strong>IE5 for mac is the best! Do you have any idea how much better it is than the windows equivilent? Hell, IE6 for windows is just approaching on what IE5 for mac is like.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Speed my friend - speed!
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

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post #31 of 76
Late last night I downloaded the OmniWeb 4.1 Sneaky Peak and I can't believe it's actualy a lot better than IE 5.1. I don't know if I'll use it full time, but right now I'm using OmniWeb and loving it. Before 4.1 I couldn't stand OmniWeb, but my mind has totally been changed.
post #32 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by JLL:
<strong>

Are you sure that Adobe apps use Quartz and not Adobe's own engine that they have been using for years?

Acrobat Reader doesn't use Quartz.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Acrobat Reader uses the Multilingual Text Engine, kind of a superset of Apple Type Services for Unicode Imaging, both of which automatically use get Quartz for free.
post #33 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by EmAn:
<strong>Late last night I downloaded the OmniWeb 4.1 Sneaky Peak and I can't believe it's actualy a lot better than IE 5.1. I don't know if I'll use it full time, but right now I'm using OmniWeb and loving it. Before 4.1 I couldn't stand OmniWeb, but my mind has totally been changed.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yup 4.1 is a BIG leap.
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post #34 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by The Toolboi:
<strong>Hell, IE6 for windows is just approaching on what IE5 for mac is like.</strong><hr></blockquote>

*falls over laughing*

*is unable to stop, asphyxia sets in*

*dies*

I wish Windows had an OmniWeb-esque super-pretty browser, but. . . that's just. . . wow.

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post #35 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>
I wish Windows had an OmniWeb-esque super-pretty browser, but. . . that's just. . . wow.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually what makes Omniweb pretty is it's use of Quartz rendering. I believe IE 6 can do the same type of text rendering. (well almost) I've seen screenshots. Looks nice.
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post #36 of 76
Using TrueType or whatever, perhaps.

I know *why* Omniweb looks pretty, you silly guy.
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post #37 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by artenman:
<strong>

I've been using Office v.X and let me get a zip a of water for this........ehem....... IT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!

It's the same bullshit as Office for Mac OS, I can't believe this piece of crap. It isn't worth your money. Don't WAIST YOUR MONEY! Entourage doesn't import from Apple's Mail program for instance. And Entourage is the only Application out of Office that does live resizing, and the live resizing sucks. It is very sluggish! From there on, sheets is pretty much the only new thing and the use of Quartz.

Folks, don't waste your money on this crap. Wait for a later release.

[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: artenman ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

You think Office is crap just because most of the apps don't use live resizing? Do you think most business users will care? And, just because Entourage doesn't import Mail's e-mail, you think it's crap? (not saying it isn't, stick with Mail/Address Book). Word/Excel/PowerPoint aren't bad OS X apps, but minor cosmetic issues do not make it a bad package.
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post #38 of 76
MS just needs to f*cking support they way OS X handles it's GUI. That is all they are trying to ask I think. IE uses it's on "stripes" which don't match OS X's.. Office has similar GUI problems. There is no excuse for it. At least when other companies use their own Aqua resources it at least MATCHES.
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post #39 of 76
How can someone who spends time making skins to subvert Aqua gripe when a company doesn't adhere to Aqua?
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post #40 of 76
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>How can someone who spends time making skins to subvert Aqua gripe when a company doesn't adhere to Aqua?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ah but that isn't my bitch. My bitch is for them to adhere to using the extras.rsrc to get it's look. Makes it a lot easier on those who DO make themes

MS not only doesn't use the Extras.rsrc but the resources they DO use don't even match Aqua.
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