or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Is Hillary Melting Down?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Is Hillary Melting Down?

post #1 of 235
Thread Starter 
That's an honest question. This week has been very bad for her after the debate debacle. Granted, the media loves a horse race, so I think some if it is media-created (just as it is on the GOP side with the Thompson is lazy, Guiliani can't win in the South type stories).

I haven't really addressed the debate, which I see as the potential turning point in her campaign. Her performance was universally panned...by Democrats, Republicans, Independents, everyone. The answer on driver's licenses was simply unreal.

But let's move on from the debate, because I don't think that's the issue here at this point. It happened, and it could have been dealt with. Instead, I want to focus on her campaign's actions after her performance.

The campaign immediately dispatched the spin crew, who suggested that she was piled on because she was a woman (at least, I believe it was they who made that suggestion). Her opponents pounced first on the debate performance, smelling blood in the water. Then they pounced on the "gender card" story. Obama pulled out the "I Don't Play The Race Card™" tactic, which I think was effective for him.

In fact, Hillary has been addressing her gender for the last few months. She refers to the "all boys club" and what not. Strategically, I think this is a big mistake. I can only assume it's intended to galvanize the female vote, but there's not an indication it's worked.

Anyway, here are some events that lead me to ask the question. I suppose it's far too early to tell whether she is melting down.

The Debate Clip


Debate Coverage/Opinion

GOP Attacks Hillary

This next one is genius: She has a bad debate performance, plays the gender card, her opponents attack her, and she plays it as "being tough enough to withstand these kids of attacks."

Hillary: Heroine Under Fire

Obama

Bush 41 Gets Into It



I think she's obviously still the frontrunner, but I do wonder how far this will go.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #2 of 235
Let's not forget this gem. Similar to how Clinton recently "how dare you[d]" some truthers -- same creepy reaction that he had during the Wallace interview as well. In any case, he shouldn't worry when the records are released -- Sandy Berger should have taken care of all that.

Her husband is a master politician, and she is everything he is not. Hillary has been lulled into a false sense of security over her past.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #3 of 235
I think the real question here : Is SDW melting down?

Check back for the sequel to this thrilling story : " Sour Grapes ".
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #4 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

...

Her husband is a master politician, and she is everything he is not. Hillary has been lulled into a false sense of security over her past.

I think you're right about Hillary forgetting her past. I think the repug's are hanging back waiting for Hillary to get the nomination and then she'll be swift boated. She's not a good candidate IMO. Obama is much better at all this than she is and it shows. His only problem is that he lacks experience.
post #5 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I think the real question here : Is SDW melting down?

Check back for the sequel to this thrilling story : " Sour Grapes ".

I realize you think that's clever, but it doesn't make any sense. Do you disagree it's been a bad week for her? Do you disagree that it was a very poor debate performance? I'm asking a question, jimmac.

Hillary may or may not be melting down. Personally I think she will likely recover from this. That's just my opinion. If you can't offer a reasonable one, then I kindly ask you to go away.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #6 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

I think you're right about Hillary forgetting her past. I think the repug's are hanging back waiting for Hillary to get the nomination and then she'll be swift boated. She's not a good candidate IMO. Obama is much better at all this than she is and it shows. His only problem is that he lacks experience.

I fully agree with you here. As Dick Morris said recently, Obama is Candidate Future, Hillary is Candidate Present, and Edwards is Candidate Past. In other words, his lack of experience is going to hurt him, at least this time around. Edwards is not really getting traction this time. He seems much more wacky this time than last, and perhaps that's why people aren't responding.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #7 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I realize you think that's clever, but it doesn't make any sense. Do you disagree it's been a bad week for her? Do you disagree that it was a very poor debate performance? I'm asking a question, jimmac.

Hillary may or may not be melting down. Personally I think she will likely recover from this. That's just my opinion. If you can't offer a reasonable one, then I kindly ask you to go away.

SDW.

Can I point out your increasingly lame attempts at trying to make something out of nothing on this forum?

Yes I can!

We always knew whoever was out in front in the democratic race would be subjected to this from both sides. If it wasn't Hillary it would be someone else. So this really isn't even a news item.

As in nothing new here.

Ps. As in nothing to recover from.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #8 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

SDW.

Can I point out your increasingly lame attempts at trying to make something out of nothing on this forum?

Yes I can!

We always knew whoever was out in front in the democratic race would be subjected to this from both sides. If it wasn't Hilary it would be someone else. So this really isn't even a news item.

As in nothing new here.

Ps. As in nothing to recover from.

Wait...so your position is that nothing actually has happened? Hillary is in the same shape she was a month ago?
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #9 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Wait...so your position is that nothing actually has happened? Hillary is in the same shape she was a month ago?


No. It's that you're trying to make more out of it than it really is.

Pure and simple.

I think Hillary is doing quite well and will in all likelyhood be our next president.

Leading to total apoplexy in a certain forum member.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #10 of 235
Edit: Double post - it was good, but not that good....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #11 of 235
It's slightly off-topic but not really; can anyone tell me why SDW and his elk get so twisted in the knicker area - positively frothing - about 'liberals' and 'lefties' when clearly no such beings exist in America anywhere between SF and NYC and all points in between.

Exhibit A: Top 100 Liberals

As the astute reader will (hopefully) observe, this is a list of the top 100 Liberals in the US. Let's deal with the top 20 only and see how 'leftie' the really are.

Clinton: hardly a liberal. Member of establishment. Prepared to bomb other countries regardless of guilt. main aim to line pockets.

Mrs Clinton: Loves Israel, hates Iran. 'Nuff said.

Pelosi: brown-nose extraordinaire. Backbone; none. Islamophobic.

Obama: ditto.

SCHWARZENEGGER:
In there at #8. Read it and weep. The 8th most influential liberal is a Nazi. I could rest my case right here.

Oprah - I love poor Israel - Winfrey: no comment. Un-*****ing-believable

Rahm Emmanuel: straight in at #13 - pro-Israel (like the others are not) son of an Irgun terrorist!!!!!!!!! You could not make this up!

Jim Webb: Ex-marine. Vietnam. End of story.

Soros: another billionaire financier. What a Commie Pathetic.

Actually that's enough....I can't take anymore.

Message to SDW: relax. Take some time out. Your work is done; THERE ARE NO LEFT_WINGERS IN THE USA......IT'S WINGERS, WINGERS, WINGERS ALL THE WAY......

You can stop posting now - America is safe.......
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #12 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

...SDW and his elk...












ilk?

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #13 of 235
Obviously, no one watched the debates except for SDW. I suppose that much I could have guessed.
Cat: the other white meat
Reply
Cat: the other white meat
Reply
post #14 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

Obviously, no one watched the debates except for SDW. I suppose that much I could have guessed.

SDW and a large number of Wapitis, apparently.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #15 of 235
It's not relevant whether or not Hillary is melting down. What matters is whether the downscale, blue collar Democrats who really don't read the newspaper will start to suspect that she is just a flip flopper on the level of John Kerry.

It's like asking if today's music is bad. Of course it is, but it will sell well as long as the general public doesn't catch on.
post #16 of 235
Hillary had a bad week. End of story.

But a "meltdown"? Come on. Strong words for two bad answers at a 2-hour debate where the moderators and the other candidates piled on.

Where was the "Is Rudy Melting Down" after his pandering to Boston fans?

Where was the "Is Romney Melting Down" after his deliberate Osama/Obama references?

Also, did Tim Russert ask any other candidate a question or were they all "gotcha" questions aimed squarely at Hillary? It was as if there weren't any other candidates on the stage. He pretty much threw red-meat questions at Hillary and then opened the floor for Edwards and Obama to attack.

At least that's the way it seemed. But that's to be expected when you're the front-runner.

And Republicans seem so bi-polar when it comes to Hillary. In one breath they're clamoring for a Hillary run because they know they can beat her. In the other breath they're hoping for a "meltdown" so she won't be the next president.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
post #17 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindler View Post

It's not relevant whether or not Hillary is melting down. What matters is whether the downscale, blue collar Democrats who really don't read the newspaper will start to suspect that she is just a flip flopper on the level of John Kerry.

It's like asking if today's music is bad. Of course it is, but it will sell well as long as the general public doesn't catch on.

Boy, I hope you apply that same standard to the boys running on your side. I think Romney has proven he's the Godzilla of Flip Floppers compared to Kerry. LOL! And let's not even get started on the panderer-in-chief's McCain and Giuliani.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
post #18 of 235
With 120, 000 YouTube hits in 24 hours Edwards Hillary Attack Ad Has Become a Mini-Internet Sensation; But Will the Candidate Himself Become an Electoral Sensation?

Quote:
Given his long running inability to break out of his third-place positioning in polls behind frontrunner Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, John Edward's chances of winning the Democratic nomination was all but written off by the chattering class. But a strong performance at the most recent Democratic presidential debate in Philadelphia on October 30 followed by some rather clever and effective campaign ads have revived talks of the possibility of a come-from-behind victory for Edwards.

Why no one has posted this surprises me. It was the first thing I read and saw this morning. Brilliant. Though I think Edwards has no chance. When you are at the top, the others will try to tear you down. So much for a Clinton/Edwards ticket...

By the way. Bill Clinton is a slick motherfucker, but a brilliant politician too. I actually miss this in a president. One that can think on his feet (lie maybe but...), will get in your face and speak in coherent sentences.
post #19 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Hillary had a bad week. End of story.

But a "meltdown"? Come on. Strong words for two bad answers at a 2-hour debate where the moderators and the other candidates piled on.

Where was the "Is Rudy Melting Down" after his bandering to Boston fans?

Where was the "Is Romney Melting Down" after his deliberate Osama/Obama references?

Also, did Tim Russert ask any other candidate a question or were they all "gotcha" questions aimed squarely at Hillary? It was as if there weren't any other candidates on the stage. He pretty much threw red-meat questions at Hillary and then opened the floor for Edwards and Obama to attack.

At least that's the way it seemed. But that's to be expected when you're the front-runner.

And Republicans seem so bi-polar when it comes to Hillary. In one breath they're clamoring for a Hillary run because they know they can beat her. In the other breath they're hoping for a "meltdown" so she won't be the next president.

Exactly!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #20 of 235
What I want to see is a GOP debate where Romney gets asked about his magic underpants.
post #21 of 235
Hillary is obviously not "melting down." She may have had a poor debate performance, but I think characterizing that performance as a "meltdown" comes to exemplify the kind of hysterical threads we're about to see in the coming months. Leave it to SDW to fire one of the first shots. No one can quite top the vileness of the purple heart threads 3-4 years ago, but honestly no one should be trying either.

That said, Hillary's support among liberals is actually rising, while Obama's is falling.
post #22 of 235
That would only happen if someone threw water on her!

(rimshot!)
post #23 of 235
Melt down Smelt down!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/....08/index.html



" A year from Election Day, Clinton remains person to beat "


Sorry SDW!


Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #24 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

No. It's that you're trying to make more out of it than it really is.

Pure and simple.

I think Hillary is doing quite well and will in all likelyhood be our next president.

Leading to total apoplexy in a certain forum member.

I'm asking you a question and you're avoiding it. That's what's happening. I'm asking if she is in the same "great shape" as she was. I'd like an answer.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Hillary had a bad week. End of story.

But a "meltdown"? Come on. Strong words for two bad answers at a 2-hour debate where the moderators and the other candidates piled on.

Well, her polling is down in several places, particularly in New Hampshire. The story hasn't gone away either. She just keeps making it worse, and so does Bill. But you have you're opinion and I accept that.

Quote:

Where was the "Is Rudy Melting Down" after his pandering to Boston fans?

Where was the "Is Romney Melting Down" after his deliberate Osama/Obama references?

Also, did Tim Russert ask any other candidate a question or were they all "gotcha" questions aimed squarely at Hillary? It was as if there weren't any other candidates on the stage. He pretty much threw red-meat questions at Hillary and then opened the floor for Edwards and Obama to attack.

I love this talking point about "gotcha" questions! It's like you read her lips, as that was her exact line. Tell me, was it a "gotcha question" to ask what her position was on driver's licenses for illegals in New York....you know, since she is the NEW YORK SENATOR and all? And let's let pretend she hasn't gotten more than her fair share of bullshit, softball questions over the years. Gee, I wonder why that is? Perhaps because the Clintons threaten anyone who dares actually ask a real question and demands and actual answer other than the standard musings about what the definition of "is" is?

Quote:

At least that's the way it seemed. But that's to be expected when you're the front-runner.

And Republicans seem so bi-polar when it comes to Hillary. In one breath they're clamoring for a Hillary run because they know they can beat her. In the other breath they're hoping for a "meltdown" so she won't be the next president.

I don't know as anyone is hoping for her to do well in the primary. Perhaps some of the party elite are, but the rank and file pretty much wants her stopped, period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

Hillary is obviously not "melting down." She may have had a poor debate performance, but I think characterizing that performance as a "meltdown" comes to exemplify the kind of hysterical threads we're about to see in the coming months. Leave it to SDW to fire one of the first shots. No one can quite top the vileness of the purple heart threads 3-4 years ago, but honestly no one should be trying either.

That said, Hillary's support among liberals is actually rising, while Obama's is falling.

I didn't say that her performance was a meltdown. I said that afterwards, I wondered if her follow ups and vacillating were the beginning of a meltdown.

Quote:

SDW:

But let's move on from the debate, because I don't think that's the issue here at this point. It happened, and it could have been dealt with. Instead, I want to focus on her campaign's actions after her performance.

It was not the focus grouped, polished performance one would expect from her. And it seems to be getting worse by the day this week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Melt down Smelt down!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/....08/index.html


" A year from Election Day, Clinton remains person to beat "


Sorry SDW!



Duh, jimmac.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #25 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I'm asking you a question and you're avoiding it. That's what's happening. I'm asking if she is in the same "great shape" as she was. I'd like an answer.





Well, her polling is down in several places, particularly in New Hampshire. The story hasn't gone away either. She just keeps making it worse, and so does Bill. But you have you're opinion and I accept that.



I love this talking point about "gotcha" questions! It's like you read her lips, as that was her exact line. Tell me, was it a "gotcha question" to ask what her position was on driver's licenses for illegals in New York....you know, since she is the NEW YORK SENATOR and all? And let's let pretend she hasn't gotten more than her fair share of bullshit, softball questions over the years. Gee, I wonder why that is? Perhaps because the Clintons threaten anyone who dares actually ask a real question and demands and actual answer other than the standard musings about what the definition of "is" is?



I don't know as anyone is hoping for her to do well in the primary. Perhaps some of the party elite are, but the rank and file pretty much wants her stopped, period.



I didn't say that her performance was a meltdown. I said that afterwards, I wondered if her follow ups and vacillating were the beginning of a meltdown.



It was not the focus grouped, polished performance one would expect from her. And it seems to be getting worse by the day this week.



Duh, jimmac.


God! SDW!

No SDW! It hardly made a dent in her " Great shape " and was to be expected.

Sounds like a backpeddle to me.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #26 of 235
More proof of what I'm saying as needed.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21676399/




" Clinton holds 20-point lead over rival Dems
NBC/WSJ poll: N.Y. senator would face dead heat against GOP’s Giuliani
"


Here's a bone for you SDW.

" But while Clinton is out in front in the Democratic horse race, she’s running neck-and-neck in a hypothetical general election match-up against Giuliani. She leads the former New York mayor by just one point, 46-45 percent, a statistical tie. In September, she had a seven-point advantage over Giuliani (49-42 percent). "

But generally the debate didn't make much of a difference.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #27 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

" But while Clinton is out in front in the Democratic horse race, shes running neck-and-neck in a hypothetical general election match-up against Giuliani. She leads the former New York mayor by just one point, 46-45 percent, a statistical tie. In September, she had a seven-point advantage over Giuliani (49-42 percent). "

If Ron Paul runs Giuliani is toast to the tune of 13 percent according to one poll. The couched it as "an independent anti-abortion candidate" but there aren't all that many viable ones out there.
post #28 of 235
We're still more than A WHOLE YEAR away from the election! Hilary may rise and fall in the polls many, many times before any time critical.

The real interesting story is developing on the GOP side.

- If Rudy is given the nod, Hilary will win.

- If McCain is given the nod, Hilary will win.

- If Ron Paul is given the nod, Hilary might actually lose, because he's the only one pushing for the US out of Iraq, no illegal incursions into Iran, pulling occupying US troops out of foreign countries, eliminating the IRS and other unnecessary sections of the government... the list goes on.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #29 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Free Ron Paul

Awesome. I think Andy Warhol is twisting in his grave though...
post #30 of 235
If Clinton ultimately wins.. look out everyone. Once the Bush crew is (on the surface) out of the White House, people will take their guard down, and under a false sense of security, breathe a collective sigh of relief... phew,... with the false impression that finally, the 8 year nightmare is over. It will not be over with Hillary, or any of the other candidates that have been permitted visibility. Hillary (or the others) will be just a variation on the same theme, but with a kinder, gentler and more intellectual front-end (hard not to be), more acceptable to the public, some 70% of whom are now sick of the current bunch.

I would prefer to know who the enemy is; at least with Bush and co., with their in-our-faces arrogance, we are left with no doubt as to where they stand. With Clinton, the approach will be more about stealthiness and subtlety, and all the activism that has developed as a result of BushCorp's brazen approach will all evaporate when Clinton or similar (democrat or republican.... the choice is immaterial) takes over the reins. The neocon agenda, or some derivative of it, will continue under Clinton, of that there is no doubt. It will be marketed more cleverly to make it appear "rational" and "acceptable".
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #31 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

If Clinton ultimately wins.. look out everyone. Once the Bush crew is (on the surface) out of the White House, people will take their guard down, and under a false sense of security, breathe a collective sigh of relief... phew,... with the false impression that finally, the 8 year nightmare is over. It will not be over with Hillary, or any of the other candidates that have been permitted visibility. Hillary (or the others) will be just a variation on the same theme, but with a kinder, gentler and more intellectual front-end (hard not to be), more acceptable to the public, some 70% of whom are now sick of the current bunch.

I would prefer to know who the enemy is; at least with Bush and co., with their in-our-faces arrogance, we are left with no doubt as to where they stand. With Clinton, the approach will be more about stealthiness and subtlety, and all the activism that has developed as a result of BushCorp's brazen approach will all evaporate when Clinton or similar (democrat or republican.... the choice is immaterial) takes over the reins. The neocon agenda, or some derivative of it, will continue under Clinton, of that there is no doubt. It will be marketed more cleverly to make it appear "rational" and "acceptable".

Don't be silly. That's what the Bush crew is fearful of. If the next president is a democrat that's when the real investigations will begin.

Sorry I don't agree at all. The Bush administration is about as blatant and bad as it gets. Hillary's world won't be perfect but it'll be a damn site better than the direction we're going. The only hope the republicans have is if people buy this " There's really no choice " idea. That will lead to voter apathy or votes going to an independent ( which won't elect them either ) and help elect another republican. Which will go easy on the previous administration and contiue to follow their agenda. Which means 4 more years of this crap! No thank you!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #32 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

We're still more than A WHOLE YEAR away from the election! Hilary may rise and fall in the polls many, many times before any time critical.

The real interesting story is developing on the GOP side.

- If Rudy is given the nod, Hilary will win.

- If McCain is given the nod, Hilary will win.

- If Ron Paul is given the nod, Hilary might actually lose, because he's the only one pushing for the US out of Iraq, no illegal incursions into Iran, pulling occupying US troops out of foreign countries, eliminating the IRS and other unnecessary sections of the government... the list goes on.

Good luck with that.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #33 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

We're still more than A WHOLE YEAR away from the election! Hilary may rise and fall in the polls many, many times before any time critical.

The real interesting story is developing on the GOP side.

- If Rudy is given the nod, Hilary will win.

- If McCain is given the nod, Hilary will win.

- If Ron Paul is given the nod, Hilary might actually lose, because he's the only one pushing for the US out of Iraq, no illegal incursions into Iran, pulling occupying US troops out of foreign countries, eliminating the IRS and other unnecessary sections of the government... the list goes on.

No way Ron Paul gets the nomination. He's going independent or nothing.

No way McCain gets the nomination. His campaign is in shambles. His best shot was 8 years ago and he didn't make it. Also nobody wants a repeat of Bob Dole vs Clinton.
post #34 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

No way Ron Paul gets the nomination. He's going independent or nothing.

No way McCain gets the nomination. His campaign is in shambles. His best shot was 8 years ago and he didn't make it. Also nobody wants a repeat of Bob Dole vs Clinton.

What are your thoughs vis a vis a Thompson or Romney nomination vs. Hilary?

Also, in a head to head, Ron Paul vs. Hilary.... the truthteller vs. the scrapper?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #35 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

We're still more than A WHOLE YEAR away from the election! Hilary may rise and fall in the polls many, many times before any time critical.

The real interesting story is developing on the GOP side.

- If Rudy is given the nod, Hilary will win.

- If McCain is given the nod, Hilary will win.

- If Ron Paul is given the nod, Hilary might actually lose, because he's the only one pushing for the US out of Iraq, no illegal incursions into Iran, pulling occupying US troops out of foreign countries, eliminating the IRS and other unnecessary sections of the government... the list goes on.


--If Rudy is given the nod, he will win.

--McCain is done.

--Ron Paul has some great things to say. But he's also kind of nuts. Every time I listen to him I like what he says, and then he says something that makes me go "right...THAT'S why I'll never vote for him."
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #36 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Ron Paul has some great things to say. But he's also kind of nuts. Every time I listen to him I like what he says, and then he says something that makes me go "right...THAT'S why I'll never vote for him."

What has he said that you consider "nuts"? I don't consider the Constitution the work of 'unbalanced' people.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #37 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

What has he said that you consider "nuts"? I don't consider the Constitution the work of 'unbalanced' people.

1. Pulling all our troops from the entire world.
2. Getting rid of the CIA
3. Never getting involved in any foreign conflict, ever.

These things are not realistic, and he supports them. Thats just the beginning. Don't get me wrong, I like him because he's a strict constructionist with regard to the Constitution. But he goes too far.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #38 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

--If Rudy is given the nod, he will win.

--McCain is done.

--Ron Paul has some great things to say. But he's also kind of nuts. Every time I listen to him I like what he says, and then he says something that makes me go "right...THAT'S why I'll never vote for him."



" If Rudy is given the nod, he will win. "

Not according to the latest polls.

And of course there will be a whole raft of things like this :

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/...ent/index.html

along the way.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #39 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


1. Pulling all our troops from the entire world. - To keep us from being the police of the world.
2. Getting rid of the CIA - To restore open diplomacy instead of illegal covert activity, regime change, renditions, but overall the bureaucracy.
3. Never getting involved in any foreign conflict, ever. - See number one.

Ambitious, maybe even outrageous. Don't expect an overnight change. It would be a gradual change.

This thread will probably the longest, redundant thread since 2004.
post #40 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Ambitious, maybe even outrageous. Don't expect an overnight change. It would be a gradual change.

This thread will probably the longest, redundant thread since 2004.

For the sake of shitz n giggles let's pretend that ol doc paul won and Iran did nuke Israel and Israel responded by blowing up Iran and a Holy War started.

Do you really think we could stay neutral?

Remember, according to the Koran the USA is evil because we have the gall to make ourselves 'higher' than Allah by enacting our own laws rather than Shariah law and that only Allah has the right to make laws.

Ron Paul is strongly behind the Constitution, a series of man made laws. So when the holy war began how would we not be attacked?

And, conversely, how would you feel if Ron Paul stood by and allowed our allies and trading partners to be decimated without our stepping in to help preserve their lives, property, economies and freedom?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Is Hillary Melting Down?