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Is Hillary Melting Down? - Page 2

post #41 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Don't be silly. That's what the Bush crew is fearful of. If the next president is a democrat that's when the real investigations will begin.

Sorry I don't agree at all. The Bush administration is about as blatant and bad as it gets. Hillary's world won't be perfect but it'll be a damn site better than the direction we're going. The only hope the republicans have is if people buy this " There's really no choice " idea. That will lead to voter apathy or votes going to an independent ( which won't elect them either ) and help elect another republican. Which will go easy on the previous administration and contiue to follow their agenda. Which means 4 more years of this crap! No thank you!

Investigations? Which tough questions are these spineless wets in the "Democratic" party going to ask?

Uhm.... uhhh... would it be possible., like, uhm, would you mind terribly.... we're awfully sorry ... I hope we're not taking up your valuable time here..., if maybe, we could possibly, perhaps set up some sort of committee or other, to, um... well, you know, uhm, ask a couple of ques... softball ones of course... you don't really have to take part, of course we'll let you know all subject matters in advance, and no no no no NO!!!... you don't necessarily have to testify under oath, of course not sir.... well, only if you agree to this... it doesn't have to be any time soon, just, you know., sometime in the next year, I meant decade or three, .... ummm... never mind, we didn't mean to impose, could you maybe keep this in mind if its not too inconvenient, please accept our apologies... Have a good day.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #42 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

For the sake of shitz n giggles let's pretend that ol doc paul won and Iran did nuke Israel and Israel responded by blowing up Iran and a Holy War started.

Do you really think we could stay neutral?

Remember, according to the Koran the USA is evil because we have the gall to make ourselves 'higher' than Allah by enacting our own laws rather than Shariah law and that only Allah has the right to make laws.

Ron Paul is strongly behind the Constitution, a series of man made laws. So when the holy war began how would we not be attacked?

And, conversely, how would you feel if Ron Paul stood by and allowed our allies and trading partners to be decimated without our stepping in to help preserve their lives, property, economies and freedom?

You seriously think Iran would invite the nukes of Israel on itself? Ain't gonna happen, despite our current administration's best attempts to engineer imminent Armageddon.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #43 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Ambitious, maybe even outrageous. Don't expect an overnight change. It would be a gradual change.

Ron Paul can be relied on for his adherence to the Constitution and his consistency.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #44 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

You seriously think Iran would invite the nukes of Israel on itself? Ain't gonna happen, despite our current administration's best attempts to engineer imminent Armageddon.

Yes. And there is a very good reason to believe that Iran would invite the nukes of Israel on itself. Believe it or not, it's not Bush that welcomes the end of the world, it's Iran which has maneuvered the world into this position and welcomes the prospect of Armageddon.

Ahmadinejad, as well as most of the population of Iran (including the ruling Mullahs) are "Twelvers."

Quote:
Twelver Shiasm (اثنا عشرية Ithnāˤashariyyah), is the largest denomination within the Shi'ite sect of the Islamic faith. An adherent of Twelver Shi'ism is most commonly referred to as a Twelver, which has been derived from their belief in twelve divinely ordained leaders, or Imams. Approximately 80% of Shi'a are Twelvers, representing the largest school of thought in Shi'a Islam. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelvers

Quote:
"Twelvers" Branch of Shi'i Islam, distinguished by their adherence to 12 succeeding imams, ending with Muhammad al Mahdi in the 10th century. Twelvers are by far the largest group of Shi'is, making up around 80% of the total Shi'is. Twelvers represent the majority of Muslims in Iran, Iraq and Bahrain. They also make up large communities in Lebanon, Syria and Saudi Arabia. The alleged Shi'is of Turkey, are not Muslims, but Alevis.

Quote:
Those who believe that the third son was the rightful ruler of Islam are called the "Twelvers", because they believe that there were 12 Imams. The last one is still alive, according to the Twelvers, and has been hiding in a cave for the last more than one thousand years. They hold that the twelfth Imam (Muhammad) who disappeared about 874 is still living. He will come out and resume his rule soon, the Twelvers say. http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...hna-ashari.htm

And the return of the 12th Imam is what Iran's actions are all about.

Ahmadinejad and the rulers of Iran are eagerly awaiting the return of the 12th Imam or the Mahdi so that the world will come to a fiery end and Allah will claim all to be his. Life on Earth would cease to exist. And the Twelvers who see this as a real event to come are looking at it the way you would eagerly await Christmas. But more than just looking forward to it, the Iranian leaders believe they can prompt him to return by bringing about a fiery worldwide calamity.

The problem with that is that they can't be the ones who are seen as having 'started' the war. So they must provoke an attack.

And that explains their actions with regard to the development of a nuclear weapons program.

If they get close to achieving a successful device the West would have to attack because otherwise the Iranians could always use the nuke to intimidate the other countries in the region and Israel would never know if their continued existence hung on their clamping down on terrorists in Gaza or attacking Hezbollah commando units or whatever they might construe as being an offense to Islam and justification for a retaliatory Iranian nuclear attack which would trigger the end of the world scenario.

Quote:
Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was invited to speak at the United Nations in October 2005. At the conclusion of his discourse, he called upon Allah to quickly usher in the re-emergence of the "Twelfth" or "Hidden Imam," sometimes referred to as the "Mahdi."

The fanatical leader later claimed that while he spoke to that august body, he was surrounded by a halo of light. Mr. Ahmadinejad regaled a local ayatollah with the story of how "The leaders of the world" stared at him during the time he spoke. He further claimed that they were unable to blink or turn away, as though some unseen force held them in a trance-like state. "When I say they didn't bat an eyelid, I'm not exaggerating, because I was looking at them," intoned Ahmadinejad.

But just who is this "Mahdi," this Hidden Imam? Some thought it was the Ayatollah Khomeini. In fact, when he returned to Iran in February 1979 following the overthrow of the Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlevi, the roads leading into Tehran were lined with nearly 2 million Shia Muslims screaming "al-Muntazar." The grand ayatollah was quick to deny that he was "al-Muntazar," one of the names given to the Hidden Imam. In other words, many thought Khomeini was the awakened Mahdi. Khomeini did, however, explain to his followers that he was the forerunner, the one who had come to open the way for the Hidden Imam to make his reappearance.

The Hidden Imam, upon his unveiling, will, according Iran's constitution, assume leadership in the Islamic republic. All will acquiesce to his authority in what is essentially an end-time paradigm based on what some call the Muslim messiah. Ahmadinejad's belief in this Hidden Imam is so compelling that he may well be persuaded to go to any lengths, including a nuclear attack on Israel and/or the United States, to precipitate an apocalyptic event, a means to an end.

Initially, Ahmadinejad's threats seemed but the idle ranting of a megalomaniac. But now, armed with the capability to produce nuclear weapons, Iran will be a menace with which to be reckoned. The spirit of the Grand Ayatollah Khomeini lives on in Iran. This is the same Khomeini who said in 1981, "I say let Iran go up in smoke, provided Islam emerges triumphant in the rest of the world."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=50065

Basically, it's this. Iran believes they will bring back the Mahdi if the Western world attacks them and triggers a fiery global Holy War. End result: Islam wins. Or if we don't attack before they complete building a device they will use the implied threat of the nuke to help spread Islam and defeat non-Shraiah ruled governments. And should ANY nation do ANYTHING that can be construed as an attack on Islam the nuclear devices can be used to bring about the return of the Magi and the end of the world. End result: Islam wins.

How do you fight a foe who loves death?

And every American needs to understand this stuff.
post #45 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Don't be silly. That's what the Bush crew is fearful of. If the next president is a democrat that's when the real investigations will begin.

What would they investigate? The previous administration. Let me grab my popcorn and soda and turn on CSPAN. You're dreaming.

Quote:

Sorry I don't agree at all. The Bush administration is about as blatant and bad as it gets. Hillary's world won't be perfect but it'll be a damn site better than the direction we're going.

You have no idea if that's true. None. You're literally just making it up. There is nothing to suggest it's true other than your personal hatred of the Bush Admin.

Quote:

The only hope the republicans have is if people buy this " There's really no choice " idea.

I don't know what that is supposed to mean.

Quote:
That will lead to voter apathy or votes going to an independent ( which won't elect them either ) and help elect another republican. Which will go easy on the previous administration and contiue to follow their agenda. Which means 4 more years of this crap! No thank you!

Votes going to an independent will not help a Republican. It will help the Democratic candidate. Secondly, other than Iraq War, what "crap" are you referring to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Ambitious, maybe even outrageous. Don't expect an overnight change. It would be a gradual change.

This thread will probably the longest, redundant thread since 2004. ......

1. Pulling all our troops from the entire world. - To keep us from being the police of the world.
2. Getting rid of the CIA - To restore open diplomacy instead of illegal covert activity, regime change, renditions, but overall the bureaucracy.
3. Never getting involved in any foreign conflict, ever. - See number one.

1. That's simply not realistic. We have to be the police because we're the only ones that have the ability to do it. That doesn't mean I agree we should do everything we do nor does it mean we get involved everywehre we should, but in the end the burden is on us. We can't just withdraw. If nothing else, we need military bases from which we can stage operations as need be.

2. Again, you're taking issue with specific actions and policies. The CIA itself is needed to gather intel for national security purposes. Don't be silly.

3. I don't accept that cop-out answer at all. There are times we need to get involved. He has said unequivocally that he would only use the military unless we were attacked or if there was an attack that was 100% for sure imminent. If that was our policy, we'd all literally be speaking German right now, Kuwait would be called New Iraq, Libya would have a nuclear weapon and would still be bombing discos and airliners, and Israel would likely be a smoldering pile.
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post #46 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Investigations? Which tough questions are these spineless wets in the "Democratic" party going to ask?

Uhm.... uhhh... would it be possible., like, uhm, would you mind terribly.... we're awfully sorry ... I hope we're not taking up your valuable time here..., if maybe, we could possibly, perhaps set up some sort of committee or other, to, um... well, you know, uhm, ask a couple of ques... softball ones of course... you don't really have to take part, of course we'll let you know all subject matters in advance, and no no no no NO!!!... you don't necessarily have to testify under oath, of course not sir.... well, only if you agree to this... it doesn't have to be any time soon, just, you know., sometime in the next year, I meant decade or three, .... ummm... never mind, we didn't mean to impose, could you maybe keep this in mind if its not too inconvenient, please accept our apologies... Have a good day.


You really don't see what's going on here do you?

It's not that the democrats are spineless. If you want to blame them for anything blame them for using the situation for polticical reasons. It's not advantageous to attack now.

If they were to really push for something ( shutdown government as some have suggested ) it would make them look bad. After the election they won't have to do that.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #47 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

What would they investigate? The previous administration. Let me grab my popcorn and soda and turn on CSPAN. You're dreaming.



You have no idea if that's true. None. You're literally just making it up. There is nothing to suggest it's true other than your personal hatred of the Bush Admin.



I don't know what that is supposed to mean.



Votes going to an independent will not help a Republican. It will help the Democratic candidate. Secondly, other than Iraq War, what "crap" are you referring to?



1. That's simply not realistic. We have to be the police because we're the only ones that have the ability to do it. That doesn't mean I agree we should do everything we do nor does it mean we get involved everywehre we should, but in the end the burden is on us. We can't just withdraw. If nothing else, we need military bases from which we can stage operations as need be.

2. Again, you're taking issue with specific actions and policies. The CIA itself is needed to gather intel for national security purposes. Don't be silly.

3. I don't accept that cop-out answer at all. There are times we need to get involved. He has said unequivocally that he would only use the military unless we were attacked or if there was an attack that was 100% for sure imminent. If that was our policy, we'd all literally be speaking German right now, Kuwait would be called New Iraq, Libya would have a nuclear weapon and would still be bombing discos and airliners, and Israel would likely be a smoldering pile.


A sample : " I don't know what that is supposed to mean. "

God I love it when you play dumb!

Don't kid yourself if this plays out the way I think it's going to the democrats will have enough to get at least 8 if not 12 years out of this.

the rest of your post is more of the Bizzaro Report
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #48 of 235
Also lately it's coming down to this :

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/...oll/index.html

" Analysis: Could it be 'the economy, stupid' again? "

Like I've said......
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #49 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

A sample : " I don't know what that is supposed to mean. "

God I love it when you play dumb!

Don't kid yourself if this plays out the way I think it's going to the democrats will have enough to get at least 8 if not 12 years out of this.

the rest of your post is more of the Bizzaro Report


you posted: "The only hope the republicans have is if people buy this " There's really no choice " idea."

--I'm saying I don't know what that is supposed to mean. I'm not baiting you or playing dumb...it really is not a coherent statement on your part. I would like an explanation of what you mean by that.

Also, you find this to be bizzaro?

Quote:
Votes going to an independent will not help a Republican. It will help the Democratic candidate. Secondly, other than Iraq War, what "crap" are you referring to?



1. That's simply not realistic. We have to be the police because we're the only ones that have the ability to do it. That doesn't mean I agree we should do everything we do nor does it mean we get involved everywehre we should, but in the end the burden is on us. We can't just withdraw. If nothing else, we need military bases from which we can stage operations as need be.

2. Again, you're taking issue with specific actions and policies. The CIA itself is needed to gather intel for national security purposes. Don't be silly.

3. I don't accept that cop-out answer at all. There are times we need to get involved. He has said unequivocally that he would only use the military unless we were attacked or if there was an attack that was 100% for sure imminent. If that was our policy, we'd all literally be speaking German right now, Kuwait would be called New Iraq, Libya would have a nuclear weapon and would still be bombing discos and airliners, and Israel would likely be a smoldering pile.

OK, so I was having some fun at the end there, but what specifically do you take issue with?
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post #50 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

you posted: "The only hope the republicans have is if people buy this " There's really no choice " idea."

--I'm saying I don't know what that is supposed to mean. I'm not baiting you or playing dumb...it really is not a coherent statement on your part. I would like an explanation of what you mean by that.

Also, you find this to be bizzaro?



OK, so I was having some fun at the end there, but what specifically do you take issue with?


I'm sorry but it's useless to try to continually explain something to someone who doesn't want to understand.

Oh well......

Ps. Did you read my post above about the economy?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #51 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

1. Pulling all our troops from the entire world.
2. Getting rid of the CIA
3. Never getting involved in any foreign conflict, ever.

These things are not realistic, and he supports them. Thats just the beginning. Don't get me wrong, I like him because he's a strict constructionist with regard to the Constitution. But he goes too far.

Above all his message is clear, to uphold the constitution which is a far cry from anyone else running.

#1. show me the source
#2. As we know it, yes.
#3. Ridiculous. He's never said this. Utter hogwash.
post #52 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post

Above all his message is clear, to uphold the constitution which is a far cry from anyone else running.

#1. show me the source
#2. As we know it, yes.
#3. Ridiculous. He's never said this. Utter hogwash.

1. He's said as much many, many times. He probably hasn't stated it quite like that. He's attacked foreign deployments ad nauseam, combat or no.

2. Uh, that's not what he said, champ. He's said he wants to get rid of the CIA. He did not say "as we know it." That's just revisionist bullshit on your part.

3. Yes, he did. He has said that we should not get involved militarily unless we are directly attacked and we know who is responsible. He has said that we should not get involved in foreign conflicts.

You clearly are in Ron Paul RDF land. You're only listening to what you want to hear.
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post #53 of 235
Every Rome must have its Nero at the closing scenes....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #54 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

1. He's said as much many, many times. He probably hasn't stated it quite like that. He's attacked foreign deployments ad nauseam, combat or no.

2. Uh, that's not what he said, champ. He's said he wants to get rid of the CIA. He did not say "as we know it." That's just revisionist bullshit on your part.

3. Yes, he did. He has said that we should not get involved militarily unless we are directly attacked and we know who is responsible. He has said that we should not get involved in foreign conflicts.

You clearly are in Ron Paul RDF land. You're only listening to what you want to hear.

Alright.. let's take all of RPs ideas to the absolute extreme then. He'd still follow the law once in office. He'd go about making changes the old fashioned way. Do you think the CIA would close shop the next day? This country could use need someone OF the people in office, not more ivy league skull and bones knuckleheads. I have zero faith in our Federal government, our electoral system, our press, or our future. Why is that? Take all of RP's ideas to the absolute extreme and you've got a much better system than we have today. I know the idea of following the constitution is "crazy talk" but hey why not just try it.

So I take it you're the big alpha know it all in here? Show me a candidate that makes more sense.
post #55 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

He has said that we should not get involved militarily unless we are directly attacked and we know who is responsible.

Can anyone verify this???? Some pink-commie fag scumbag is saying that the US should not get involved militarily unless we are directly attacked and we know who is responsible ??????????

WTF????? Does this guy hate Amerika or what????

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #56 of 235
RP would be fine -- probably even ignite debate in the country -- the other two branches would moderate the crazy out of him.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #57 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

RP would be fine -- probably even ignite debate in the country -- the other two branches would moderate the crazy out of him.

No, executive appointments to administrative agencies would seem to suffer...

I'm not sure how that would work if the President refuses to nominate anyone...
post #58 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post

Alright.. let's take all of RPs ideas to the absolute extreme then. He'd still follow the law once in office. He'd go about making changes the old fashioned way. Do you think the CIA would close shop the next day? This country could use need someone OF the people in office, not more ivy league skull and bones knuckleheads. I have zero faith in our Federal government, our electoral system, our press, or our future. Why is that? Take all of RP's ideas to the absolute extreme and you've got a much better system than we have today. I know the idea of following the constitution is "crazy talk" but hey why not just try it.

So I take it you're the big alpha know it all in here? Show me a candidate that makes more sense.

I don't dislike him...keep that in mind. I just think he goes too far. As for who is better, I would prefer Guiliani or Romney over him. But I do agree that his main strength is his adherence to the Constitution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Can anyone verify this???? Some pink-commie fag scumbag is saying that the US should not get involved militarily unless we are directly attacked and we know who is responsible ??????????

WTF????? Does this guy hate Amerika or what????


How about I heard it when he was local Philly radio last week. His intent was clear as a bell. And yes, I disagree with his statement. There are time we need to get involved in foreign conflicts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

RP would be fine -- probably even ignite debate in the country -- the other two branches would moderate the crazy out of him.

That might be true, actually.
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post #59 of 235
Is Giuliani melting down?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/...uit/index.html

" Publisher says she was told to lie to protect Giuliani "

I know it's a cheap shot but I couldn't resist.

I mean it's just a question.
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post #60 of 235
I've decided it is much more fun to watch Democrats be mean to Democrats.

“When it takes two weeks and six different positions to answer one question on immigration, it’s easier to understand why the Clinton campaign would rather plant their questions than answer them,” said Bill Burton, a spokesman for Senator Barack Obama of Illinois, a rival in the race for the nomination.

“One absolutely devastating accusation that could resonate is that she is gullible — she bought into two false story lines, one from her husband about Monica Lewinsky and one from President Bush about Iraq,” Mr. Baker added.

“The experience of first lady is simply not the same thing as running a complicated organization,” Ms. Fowler said.

NY Times.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #61 of 235
Nah, it's still more fun to see Republicans do it.

McCain aide: "Obviously there are some very serious charges involved for a guy who was his protégé and one of his closest friends. And for Rudy to go out and say this is not worthy of discussion when it directly involves him and his decision making, and in the case of department of homeland security, the security of our country - it's disturbing that Rudy would think it's not something he is going to have to address. "

In response to Giuliani's alleged ignorance of his buddy's crimes: "That was shocking. It is just revisionist history. Rudy is the godfather to two of this guy's kids--he is as close as you can get."

"Voters grow very weary of story after story after story having to do with public officials who have not adhered to higher ethical standards," said Madden [Romney aide]. "Right now it is very important to Republican primary voters that we have a candidate who can draw a very clear contrast between a Republican nominee and Hillary Clinton. If you have a nominee who is distracted by this type of narrative, you lose the ability to contrast yourself with Hillary Clinton and past Clinton administrations. It cancels out any advantage you would have."



Observer
post #62 of 235
Want to see Giuliani melt down? Get someone in the crowd to ask him, "Even after you divorced your cousin, do you still buy her a Christmas gift?"
post #63 of 235
Thread Starter 
Oh, look, Hillary is against DL's for illegals. So she was for it, then not sure, then for it, then it should be left to the states, and now she's against it. Hmmm. Maybe it's not just questions that are getting planted?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071115/D8STV7C00.html

Quote:
"I support Governor Spitzer's decision today to withdraw his proposal," Clinton said in a statement. "As president, I will not support driver's licenses for undocumented people and will press for comprehensive immigration reform that deals with all of the issues around illegal immigration including border security and fixing our broken system."

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post #64 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

Nah, it's still more fun to see Republicans do it.

McCain aide: "Obviously there are some very serious charges involved for a guy who was his protégé and one of his closest friends. And for Rudy to go out and say this is not worthy of discussion when it directly involves him and his decision making, and in the case of department of homeland security, the security of our country - it's disturbing that Rudy would think it's not something he is going to have to address. "

In response to Giuliani's alleged ignorance of his buddy's crimes: "That was shocking. It is just revisionist history. Rudy is the godfather to two of this guy's kids--he is as close as you can get."

"Voters grow very weary of story after story after story having to do with public officials who have not adhered to higher ethical standards," said Madden [Romney aide]. "Right now it is very important to Republican primary voters that we have a candidate who can draw a very clear contrast between a Republican nominee and Hillary Clinton. If you have a nominee who is distracted by this type of narrative, you lose the ability to contrast yourself with Hillary Clinton and past Clinton administrations. It cancels out any advantage you would have."



Observer



Let me ask something here: Are you implying that RG was involved in Kerik's problems? Or that he deliberately withheld information? I'm just curious.
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post #65 of 235
No of course not. I was responding to the notion that Democrats bickering is more entertaining than Republicans bickering. It's equally entertaining, or at the very least, slightly more entertaining when you are on the other side.
post #66 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Oh, look, Hillary is against DL's for illegals. So she was for it, then not sure, then for it, then it should be left to the states, and now she's against it. Hmmm. Maybe it's not just questions that are getting planted?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071115/D8STV7C00.html





Wow! You really got something on her there didn't you?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #67 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Wow! You really got something on her there didn't you?

So do you accept her ridiculous position and behavior with regard to this issue?
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post #68 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

So do you accept her ridiculous position and behavior with regard to this issue?

I think I hear lots of things from politicians during a preelection. Immigration is very complex problem and I'm not sure I would lable her position ridiculous as you have. However the story about Giliuani now there's something to ponder. Your thoughts on that?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #69 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I think I hear lots of things from politicians during a preelection. Immigration is very complex problem and I'm not sure I would lable her position ridiculous as you have. However the story about Giliuani now there's something to ponder. Your thoughts on that?


SDW said he'd choose RG over RP which basically says it all. RG has so many skeletons in his closet his "alleged" mafia buddies had to build him a new wing. I can't believe he's even on the ticket. Seriously, that guy just stinks to high heaven.

Watching the Nevada democratic debate on CNN I had these thoughts:

Basically HC's a talker. She's smart, no doubt, and strong as well, but she's too slick for her own good. Certainly we could do worse, but her talking points smack of polishing the brass on the Titanic. She also likes to mention how the Bush admin failed when asked how she'd do things and then turns around and accuses Edwards of pulling tricks from the right wing mudslinging playbook. I liked Edwards comments about the country/ government being run by the elite corporations and being broken, rigged, and corrupt and also his attacks on HC last night. That's the kind of talk I like to hear, but I sense the force is a little weak in JE. His smiles is too wooden. Dod says great stuff about education, but he and Hillary both felt a little too strongly that security comes before human rights. Human rights and security should never be mutually exclusive, and neither really picked up the ball on this point. Obama did however. Bill Richardson impressed me a great deal last night.
post #70 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post

SDW said he'd choose RG over RP which basically says it all. RG has so many skeletons in his closet his "alleged" mafia buddies had to build him a new wing. I can't believe he's even on the ticket. Seriously, that guy just stinks to high heaven.

Watching the Nevada democratic debate on CNN I had these thoughts:

Basically HC's a talker. She's smart, no doubt, and strong as well, but she's too slick for her own good. Certainly we could do worse, but her talking points smack of polishing the brass on the Titanic. She also likes to mention how the Bush admin failed when asked how she'd do things and then turns around and accuses Edwards of pulling tricks from the right wing mudslinging playbook. I liked Edwards comments about the country/ government being run by the elite corporations and being broken, rigged, and corrupt and also his attacks on HC last night. That's the kind of talk I like to hear, but I sense the force is a little weak in JE. His smiles is too wooden. Dod says great stuff about education, but he and Hillary both felt a little too strongly that security comes before human rights. Human rights and security should never be mutually exclusive, and neither really picked up the ball on this point. Obama did however. Bill Richardson impressed me a great deal last night.

Here's one place where SDW and I are in agreement. I'd choose RG over RP. RP is nothing better than a free-market anarchist whose policies if enacted would destroy America with a level of poverty and civil breakdown never before seen in any civilized country.
post #71 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Here's one place where SDW and I are in agreement. I'd choose RG over RP. RP is nothing better than a free-market anarchist whose policies if enacted would destroy America with a level of poverty and civil breakdown never before seen in any civilized country.

If any arguments could sway me away from RP, it would be sound fiscal/economic arguments, i.e. the genie already being out of the bottle so to speak as far as the Fed is concerned. Unfortunately, critics are content with calling him a crackpot and then fail to back it up. I realize the global economy is no simple thing, however those in a position to truly understand the ramifications of RP's ideas have utterly failed to pose such arguments, and believe me I'm always on the lookout. As I see it we're headed for mass poverty and civil breakdown now. When the dollar collapses what then? We live way beyond our means in the US and have for decades and the time is coming where life as we know it will collapse. We're in this situation because we've been encouraged to borrow and consume uncontrollably under the guise of keeping the economy in the black. The Fed is a privately controlled entity (comprised of banks) and they ultimately decide the fate of the entire Western world. This doesn't bother people at all?

Also, RP if nothing else is honest and his ambitions are for the country. RG on the other hand is a self interested politician though and through.
post #72 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I think I hear lots of things from politicians during a preelection. Immigration is very complex problem and I'm not sure I would lable her position ridiculous as you have. However the story about Giliuani now there's something to ponder. Your thoughts on that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post

If any arguments could sway me away from RP, it would be sound fiscal/economic arguments, i.e. the genie already being out of the bottle so to speak as far as the Fed is concerned. Unfortunately, critics are content with calling him a crackpot and then fail to back it up. I realize the global economy is no simple thing, however those in a position to truly understand the ramifications of RP's ideas have utterly failed to pose such arguments, and believe me I'm always on the lookout. As I see it we're headed for mass poverty and civil breakdown now. When the dollar collapses what then? We live way beyond our means in the US and have for decades and the time is coming where life as we know it will collapse. We're in this situation because we've been encouraged to borrow and consume uncontrollably under the guise of keeping the economy in the black. The Fed is a privately controlled entity (comprised of banks) and they ultimately decide the fate of the entire Western world. This doesn't bother people at all?

Also, RP if nothing else is honest and his ambitions are for the country. RG on the other hand is a self interested politician though and through.

I agree that we live beyond our means. I also agree we need to change our spending habits and reduce the size of government, two things RP is in favor of.

However, I don't believe we are on the road to disaster. Right now is a tough time because of the credit crunch and energy prices. But this too shall pass. We need to adjust, take our lumps, and make the changes needed to make sure it doesn't happen again. Banks are already doing this with their lending practices. And as for the dollar, well it's weak due to our account deficit, and that needs to change. That said, a weak dollar does have some benefits, such as the resulting exportation advantages. I'm just saying let's not panic here. The sun will come up tomorrow.
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post #73 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I agree that we live beyond our means. I also agree we need to change our spending habits and reduce the size of government, two things RP is in favor of.

However, I don't believe we are on the road to disaster. Right now is a tough time because of the credit crunch and energy prices. But this too shall pass. We need to adjust, take our lumps, and make the changes needed to make sure it doesn't happen again. Banks are already doing this with their lending practices. And as for the dollar, well it's weak due to our account deficit, and that needs to change. That said, a weak dollar does have some benefits, such as the resulting exportation advantages. I'm just saying let's not panic here. The sun will come up tomorrow.


So um what does that have to do with my question about Guliani? I do worry about the present state of the economy however and I'm not alone. Perhaps that is what you were making reference to.
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post #74 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

So um what does that have to do with my question about Guliani? I do worry about the present state of the economy however and I'm not alone. Perhaps that is what you were making reference to.

Sorry I missed it. Are you referring to the Kerik thing?
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post #75 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post

If any arguments could sway me away from RP, it would be sound fiscal/economic arguments, i.e. the genie already being out of the bottle so to speak as far as the Fed is concerned. Unfortunately, critics are content with calling him a crackpot and then fail to back it up. I realize the global economy is no simple thing, however those in a position to truly understand the ramifications of RP's ideas have utterly failed to pose such arguments, and believe me I'm always on the lookout. As I see it we're headed for mass poverty and civil breakdown now. When the dollar collapses what then? We live way beyond our means in the US and have for decades and the time is coming where life as we know it will collapse. We're in this situation because we've been encouraged to borrow and consume uncontrollably under the guise of keeping the economy in the black. The Fed is a privately controlled entity (comprised of banks) and they ultimately decide the fate of the entire Western world. This doesn't bother people at all?

Also, RP if nothing else is honest and his ambitions are for the country. RG on the other hand is a self interested politician though and through.

For free market capitalism to work well, pre-existing social structures and the limitations they produce must be eliminated, otherwise social stagnation becomes the norm. The theories on free market ignore human psychology and the social structures produced by it. It assumes every aspect of human interactions is economic. This fatal flaw is its down fall, and something glossed over quite readily by every single libertarian I have ever spoken to.
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #76 of 235
What pre-existing social structures? I mean, yeh stuff has to change and change a lot but it sounded like you had some things in mind. Don't panic SDW? I don't think that's necessarily correct. We're in serious economic crisis regardless of the "don't panic" message propagated by mass media. Changes need to be made. Sacrifices. For one example, the model of single drivers driving 20 miles to work both ways everyday is ridiculous. But we have to get to work to pay stay afloat. Do I want big brother making us carpool? Hell no, but I do believe big brother needs to provide big incentives to getting people out of their habits.
post #77 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

For free market capitalism to work well, pre-existing social structures and the limitations they produce must be eliminated, otherwise social stagnation becomes the norm. The theories on free market ignore human psychology and the social structures produced by it. It assumes every aspect of human interactions is economic. This fatal flaw is its down fall, and something glossed over quite readily by every single libertarian I have ever spoken to.

I too would like to know what pre-existing social structures are, exactly. Free market capitalism does work. It needs to be regulated to some extent, but it works better than any system in human history. And I think you're essentially wrong...the vast majority of "human interaction" IS economic. Money makes the world go 'round, as they say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post

What pre-existing social structures? I mean, yeh stuff has to change and change a lot but it sounded like you had some things in mind.

Don't panic SDW? I don't think that's necessarily correct. We're in serious economic crisis regardless of the "don't panic" message propagated by mass media. Changes need to be made. Sacrifices. For one example, the model of single drivers driving 20 miles to work both ways everyday is ridiculous. But we have to get to work to pay stay afloat. Do I want big brother making us carpool? Hell no, but I do believe big brother needs to provide big incentives to getting people out of their habits.

So our economic problems are caused by commuters? . That's not the problem. The current problems stem from our over dependance on foreign oil and foreign goods. More recently, we've had a credit crunch caused my predatory lending practices, including stated-income loans, adjustable teaser rates, negative amortization, etc...coupled with a natural downside that resulted itself from the Real Estate Bubble. We're also deficit spending, which is pushing down the value of the dollar.

But yes, change is needed. We need to spend far less at the federal level and get the budget balanced. We need to reduce or practically eliminate our dependence on foreign oil. And the banks need to rethink their lending practices, which they are already doing out of self-preservation.

All that said, I think we're going to be fine. We may go through a recession, and we'll see credit worries for quite some time. But don't fail to account for the fact that our creditors overseas need us as much as we need them. We're the "world's consumer" and our economy is the engine that drives the world economy. It's not in other nation's interests to see our economy collapse. For the average consumer, it will be a little harder to get a home loan and those who bought near the top of the market or are trying to sell property are going to have it tough. But as I said, the sun will come up in the morning. The media you reference now has you scared shitless. They go crazy when things are good, screaming BUY! BUY!...but then when there are problems, the world is going to end. In the end neither is true.
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post #78 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Sorry I missed it. Are you referring to the Kerik thing?


Yes I am.
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post #79 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Yes I am.

I'm not sure how much RG knew or didn't know. I do know that he's admitted nominating him for the position was a mistake. I suppose one could say he should be more careful with his support for people up for positions like that. That said, he's not the first politician to do something like that. I don't think it's an automatic indictment of RG himself.
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post #80 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I'm not sure how much RG knew or didn't know. I do know that he's admitted nominating him for the position was a mistake. I suppose one could say he should be more careful with his support for people up for positions like that. That said, he's not the first politician to do something like that. I don't think it's an automatic indictment of RG himself.

I'm thinking there will probably be more.
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