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Apple tablet (Newton); iPhone voice memos; UK launch info - Page 5

post #161 of 190
That's why I hate these threads. They just think it's a standard gravitation towards multi-touch screens which it isn't. It's like trying to explain science to caveman. it's ridiculous. Similar idiots had similar thoughts about the Apple mouse, and GUI after the iPod. Sure Pal. A a scroll wheel mouse with a new Apple interface. Yeah right. No clicking, just scrolling.
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post #162 of 190
For the record, since I don't recall exactly what I said to Mel on this topic:

1) I believe a slate tablet is useful for note taking where typing is distracting. OneNote is a 70% solution that works...okay. Apple could likely do better. Here size and weight is king. The design goal should be no larger or heavier than a pad of paper. Obviously we have a ways to go.

2) A slate tablet is lighter than a convertible tablet typically due to design goals. Therefore a slate tablet is typically more desireable for a lightweight pen and paper pad replacement over a convertible. That doesn't mean you CAN'T design a lightweight convertible its just that all convertibles to date have been laptop replacements...and not the ultraportable laptop replacement type.

A ultraportable 10" convertible would be about as good as a slate. No one makes one.

3) Nothing beats a real keyboard for typing.

4) Virtual keyboards don't provide the same tactile feedback that a real keyboard provides and is not as well suited for long documents. That's implied by #3.

5) My dream tablet is a slate that docks into a laptop base. 2 hr battery life, integrated graphics chip, no keyboard, no HDD, no optical drive in the slate. Laptop base has bigger battery, keyboard, HDD, optical and higher end GPU.
post #163 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Uh, just how many people have the time to text message 100 to 200 times a day? If they do, they should go to school, get a job, or at the very least, get a life.

Well, I was refering to the younger set there, not to your (or my) peers. I don't know how old your daughter is, but if her friends have phones she probably knows some who text message like that.
BTW, I would be carefull throwing around the "get a life" line, Mr 11k posts...


Quote:
Some day, other input will possibly replace the conventional keyboard. But just when that will be, no one knows.
It certainly won't be in the timeframe you are talking about for Apple...

Here we both have to be carefull. Remember, the iPhone already exists and it has essentially replaced the keyboard as we know it.

But for a "full computer" ultra portable device, if Apple or anyone else comes out with a keyboardless example you can be sure there will be some way for us old-schoolers to run it with a traditional keyboard for a few extra bucks...

Quote:
Keyboards are a great input device for, guess what? TEXT!

Of course. Except that they are big and are only good at TEXT. If people want a portable that isn't a laptop, well, something's gotta give...
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post #164 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

For the record, since I don't recall exactly what I said to Mel on this topic:

1) I believe a slate tablet is useful for note taking where typing is distracting. OneNote is a 70% solution that works...okay. Apple could likely do better. Here size and weight is king. The design goal should be no larger or heavier than a pad of paper. Obviously we have a ways to go.

2) A slate tablet is lighter than a convertible tablet typically due to design goals. Therefore a slate tablet is typically more desireable for a lightweight pen and paper pad replacement over a convertible. That doesn't mean you CAN'T design a lightweight convertible its just that all convertibles to date have been laptop replacements...and not the ultraportable laptop replacement type.

A ultraportable 10" convertible would be about as good as a slate. No one makes one.

3) Nothing beats a real keyboard for typing.

4) Virtual keyboards don't provide the same tactile feedback that a real keyboard provides and is not as well suited for long documents. That's implied by #3.

5) My dream tablet is a slate that docks into a laptop base. 2 hr battery life, integrated graphics chip, no keyboard, no HDD, no optical drive in the slate. Laptop base has bigger battery, keyboard, HDD, optical and higher end GPU.

I don't exactly remember either, but I can go with what you just said now.
post #165 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

Well, I was refering to the younger set there, not to your (or my) peers. I don't know how old your daughter is, but if her friends have phones she probably knows some who text message like that.
BTW, I would be carefull throwing around the "get a life" line, Mr 11k posts...

Believe it or not, my total time doing this is no more than about 2 hours a day, in bits and pieces. Remember, I HAD a life! Now, I'm retired. I'm allowed to do whatever I want.

Quote:
Here we both have to be carefull. Remember, the iPhone already exists and it has essentially replaced the keyboard as we know it.

Until Apple sells 500 million of these things a year, we can't say it's replaced much of anything. Also, there will be around 280 million computers sold around the world this year, they all have keyboards. And then there are the tens of millions of terminals, etc.

Quote:
But for a "full computer" ultra portable device, if Apple or anyone else comes out with a keyboardless example you can be sure there will be some way for us old-schoolers to run it with a traditional keyboard for a few extra bucks...

True, but that's already been discussed. Do you want to carry a full size keyboard around with your keyboardless tablet? Probably not.

Quote:
Of course. Except that they are big and are only good at TEXT. If people want a portable that isn't a laptop, well, something's gotta give...

Since 99% of everything entered into a computer IS text, that's a pretty important function, don't you agree?
post #166 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

BTW, I would be carefull throwing around the "get a life" line, Mr 11k posts...

Hey now.. he's retired and has the right.. and heck, I've probably learned more from him than from any other member. Shame on you!
post #167 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Since 99% of everything entered into a computer IS text, that's a pretty important function, don't you agree?

Rubbish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/sarcasm
post #168 of 190
  • 11" multi-touch screen with *virtual keyboard*
  • 15mm thin
  • Front chrome trim
  • Flush-rear flip-stand on back top-third, which when flipped out gives tablet 25º tilt on desk (has small rubber pad on parts touching desk)
  • Silver aluminum back with "haha" Apple logo
  • Front black bezel with iSight & scratch-resistant glass cover
  • Home dock, which syncs with your desktop Mac (or notebook) through iTunes, charges, and works as stand too
  • Gray rubber parts on rear for grip (and feet) which also provide great wireless signal as antenna reside right behind
  • Less than half the weight of MacBook
  • Designed with desktop users in mind
  • Designed to be taken "everywhere"
  • "Great" for watching movies
  • 32GB + 64GB SSD versions
  • Exceptionally decent proc., given it's tiny (but useful) form factor
  • Comes with OS X, Menubar and Finder designed for human fingers
  • Works with stylus if needed for sketching etc.
  • Called "Mac touch"


And...
  • Best looking portable computer on the planet!
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #169 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishyesque View Post

Hey now.. he's retired and has the right.. and heck, I've probably learned more from him than from any other member. Shame on you!

Come on! I used a and a ! What more do you want?

Besides, I was only reflecting his line--its not for me to determine what constitutes a "life" for anyone--retired, in school or whetever...
Progress is a comfortable disease
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post #170 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

Come on! I used a and a ! What more do you want?

Besides, I was only reflecting his line--its not for me to determine what constitutes a "life" for anyone--retired, in school or whetever...

I appreciate that you weren't serious.

But, just think. 200 messages will take about 200 minutes. that's 3 hours and 20 minutes. And that doesn't count reading the 200 replies!
post #171 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I appreciate that you weren't serious.

But, just think. 200 messages will take about 200 minutes. that's 3 hours and 20 minutes. And that doesn't count reading the 200 replies!

I had a conversation with a 14 year old 8th grader last year. He sat in front of me at a concert where I watched him texting throughout the concert. He was a courteous as possible--he kept the screen covered so as not to shine light when he was typing (he did not need to look at the screen) and he viewed the screen through a cupped hand--again to keep the glare to others a minimum--when he was reading. He also watched the concert and interacted with his friends in the neighboring seats.
In the course of a 1.5 hour concert he had sent more than 35 texts. He said he has reached 200 texts in a day on busy days and that 100 was not uncommon.
Nice kid.
"A" student.
Socially adjusted.
Heavy texter.

It works for him and his friends...
Progress is a comfortable disease
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Progress is a comfortable disease
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post #172 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

I had a conversation with a 14 year old 8th grader last year. He sat in front of me at a concert where I watched him texting throughout the concert. He was a courteous as possible--he kept the screen covered so as not to shine light when he was typing (he did not need to look at the screen) and he viewed the screen through a cupped hand--again to keep the glare to others a minimum--when he was reading. He also watched the concert and interacted with his friends in the neighboring seats.
In the course of a 1.5 hour concert he had sent more than 35 texts. He said he has reached 200 texts in a day on busy days and that 100 was not uncommon.
Nice kid.
"A" student.
Socially adjusted.
Heavy texter.

It works for him and his friends...

we'll see. Studies have shown that this can be a social problem for kids who aren't yet socially mature. It makes face to face encounters problematical. That can be difficult to see. but, over time, it could lead to adjustment problems.

I worry about all of the outbursts we see here. Outbursts that those same people would, hopefully, never make in a personal situation, face to face. But, for younger people, you never know what will carry over.
post #173 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Not in any numbers.

As for the cradle thing. The problem with it is that the pressure on your arm from pressing down when writing, as well as the weight, makes it very uncomfortable after a short while, even for the smaller, and lighter, models.

I think that it would have to weigh less than two pounds to function as a clipboard, which is what tablets are modeled on. I'm not even sure if two pounds is light enough for the long term. One pound is likely the limit.

Can't you strap it around your neck, it wouldn't press on the arm that way.
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post #174 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by jido View Post

Can't you strap it around your neck, it wouldn't press on the arm that way.

Wonderful! So now you expect people to carry this several pound elephant around their neck?

There are reasons why these have not become popular. Your idea is one of them.

Finding excuses about why they don't work for people, and coming up with odd ways of getting around those problems doesn't help.

Can't people understand that not every idea is a good one? Tablets may very well be an idea that is simply not acceptable, except for a very small minority.

Tablets have been around for almost 20 years now, in one incarnation, or another. Each time, the makers, and promoters, stated that the earlier limitations had been eliminated, and that THIS time, they would become popular.

So far, they've always been wrong.

A tablet may become more popular when they get down in size and weight to a clipboard. But, even then, clipboards are very specialized products. People don't carry them around with them except for short periods of time. It's the mere act of having to carry them that turns people off.

Only when the hands are free, and one isn't required to carry something over the shoulder, will people carry it around most of the time. That means something that can fit into a pocket, or in a holder, on the belt. Anything larger that that is doomed.

That's why, first, cell phones and PDA's became popular. It's also why PDA's are dying out now. People don't even want to carry two SMALL devices. Even iPods may eventually be subsumed into the iPhone.

And people talk about carrying tablets, in addition, no less?
post #175 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Tablets won't make it until the public can be convinced that this "new" way of using a computer is better for them (if, indeed, it is).

Apple, because of the hype surronding it, may be the only company that can do this.
But, that doesn't mean that they CAN do this, possibly just that no one else can.

It has to be a 'new' way - absolutely 100% agree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Its difficult for me to see where another Newton would fit in. The PDA market is dying. An SDK for the iPhone and iPod Touch essentially makes them ultramobile PC's.

I can more believe the rumor about the light weight notebook that would make even less reason for a tablet. Apple has been fairly anal about not diluting its product line

If there is a tablet coming, its a huge challenge. If it was going to run OSX with standard OSX apps, then it is simply a laptop without a keyboard... and the first thing people will miss is the keyboard. They'll buy the ultralight notebook instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

News-flash, the iPhone is the Newton. This tablet will be a Mac we hope.

If the tablet is a Mac, it'll be relatively unpopular for the reason I gave above... having a keyboard will simply make more sense. However, Apple might force applications to comply with a much more limited feature set - FORCE a change in the interaction paradigm... which may make a difference. I'm not sure.

I think Apple is playing in a new place... and the iPhone is the first step. It is OSX but it's not. Who knows where to from here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

When this is placed on a table, flat, there is little to no advantage over a keyed device, and it's difficult to see, as it faces the ceiling.<snip>

When holding it and using it, it will still run into the problem of weight on your forearm when writing. If you choose instead to use a screen keyboard, then you must do with one hand. These are both uncomfortable, and clumsy.

I don't see how any "killer app" can get around these terminal (no pun intended) problems, as it is what it is.

More good points. It makes me think that a tablet, more than anything, will have to be incredibly light (and run cool - my MBP is HOT!). (edit: and I am not sure it can be light and cool enough yet... a point you've made in the post above too)

I use a notepad (a real, pen and paper one) in some very specific contexts
1. When I'm working on a referral helpdesk, I am using the computer to look up referrals. So I'll jot quick notes on paper.
2. When doing counselling/NLP, I want to make free form notes. I draw a square and write a concept in it, then link it to other squares. I rewrite it quickly in Pages after the session, but I wouldn't use it with a client since it's not quick enough, and typing breaks rapport.

For #1, having 2 computers would probably solve my needs - though even there I'm not writing an essay, I'm working freeform with multiple possibly unrelated points. Word processors aren't designed for that (though there's probably some good brainstorming apps that would serve my need). Scribbling notes wherever still feels much more natural.

For #2, typing is not feasible (on a keyboard or virtual keyboard). I'll stick with pen and paper, but a CHEAP tablet that converts my freeform into a Pages document would be very interesting. (edit: yes.... now I want light, small, cool, AND cheap)

I can see why it's popular in certain industries. If you need to walk and use a computer, a tablet makes sense (if it's very light, and syncs with your desktop programs somehow). Walking and using a computer was once confined to doctors (and similar)... but there may be new markets emerging with people using computers as they walk about their daily lives. The iPhone certainly meets some of those needs (but maybe recording handwriting is required?)
post #176 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander

If the tablet is a Mac, it'll be relatively unpopular for the reason I gave above... having a keyboard will simply make more sense.

I think exactly the opposite is true, having a keyboard makes this tablet device a little thicker, and a littler heaver, and even a little less cool. This device will sell more units precisely because it will be cool, have a great onscreen keyboard, and will be so light and thin it can be taken "everywhere". The iPhone is a very powerful phone you take everywhere. This will be a Mac you can take everywhere.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #177 of 190
Microsoft has failed with tablets because they are trying to convince business people they need them.

Apple on the other hand has a huge pool of customers who already use tablets...Wacom tablets.
I think Apple should market it's tablet solution to creative professionals who would love to have a portable Cintiq for about a grand. They should also include a sketching application standard.
post #178 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I think exactly the opposite is true, having a keyboard makes this tablet device a little thicker, and a littler heaver, and even a little less cool. This device will sell more units precisely because it will be cool, have a great onscreen keyboard, and will be so light and thin it can be taken "everywhere". The iPhone is a very powerful phone you take everywhere. This will be a Mac you can take everywhere.

Ireland, go work for Apple.
post #179 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I think exactly the opposite is true, having a keyboard makes this tablet device a little thicker, and a littler heaver, and even a little less cool. This device will sell more units precisely because it will be cool, have a great onscreen keyboard, and will be so light and thin it can be taken "everywhere". The iPhone is a very powerful phone you take everywhere. This will be a Mac you can take everywhere.

What kind of device are we talking about here?

No one is talking about a keyboarded tablet. It's either a tablet, or a light clamshell portable.

What does the term "light" mean? 1pound? Two pounds? Three pounds?

If it's much more than 1 pound, it ain't gonna make it, and it's got to be small.
post #180 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

Microsoft has failed with tablets because they are trying to convince business people they need them.

Apple on the other hand has a huge pool of customers who already use tablets...Wacom tablets.
I think Apple should market it's tablet solution to creative professionals who would love to have a portable Cintiq for about a grand. They should also include a sketching application standard.

I've been using Wacom tablets since I had my Atari ST's. Let me tell you that using Wacom tablets has nothing to do with a tablet computer. I don't carry my tablets around with me to use as an input device. No one does.
post #181 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishyesque View Post

Ireland, go work for Apple.

No thanks.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #182 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

What kind of device are we talking about here?

Touch-screen tablet with on-screen keyboard, not very hard to understand. Put it this way, what it will have in common with the iPhone is that it will look like one slab. It will be a Mac though, with a Finder and a menubar that would be designed for fingers.

I'n my mind the device will look kind of like this:


Though it may have a flip stand on the rear for making it rest at 25-30º on your desk, so you could type with two hands and look at the screen at the same time if you liked.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #183 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Touch-screen tablet with on-screen keyboard, not very hard to understand. Put it this way, what it will have in common with the iPhone is that it will look like one slab. It will be a Mac though, with a Finder and a menubar that would be designed for fingers.

I'n my mind the device will look kind of like this:


Though it may have a flip stand on the rear for making it rest at 25-30º on your desk, so you could type with two hands and look at the screen at the same time if you liked.

It's easy to understand, once it's described.

But I don't see the built-in stand. I mentioned it days ago. Too easy to break when carried around. It will also add thickness—it has to go somewhere.
post #184 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's easy to understand, once it's described.

But I don't see the built-in stand. I mentioned it days ago. Too easy to break when carried around. It will also add thickness—it has to go somewhere.

Flush rear stand that flips out, it wouldn't need to be that thick to hold up this thing. About 1.5" high, 6"or 7" long, and 5mm thick, with non-sharp corners, and light-gray rubber strip cushion for the part touching the table. You push it in and it flips out, when pushed back in it would be flush with rear of tablet and practically unnoticeable. It would have a dip like the home button to show you where it needs to pushed. It would be useful, practical and easy achievable for Apple.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #185 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Flush rear stand that flips out, it wouldn't need to be that thick to hold up this thing. About 1.5" high, 6"or 7" long, and 5mm thick, with non-sharp corners, and light-gray rubber strip cushion for the part touching the table. You push it in and it flips out, when pushed back in it would be flush with rear of tablet and practically unnoticeable. It would have a dip like the home button to show you where it needs to pushed. It would be useful, practical and easy achievable for Apple.

How much do you assume this thing would weigh?

I do still think it's too large for people to want to carry around with them wherever they go, though.
post #186 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

How much do you assume this thing would weigh?

I do still think it's too large for people to want to carry around with them wherever they go, though.

I'm not sure exactly how much it would weigh, but if simply must have a Mac with you at all times it would be a great solution.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #187 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I'm not sure exactly how much it would weigh, but if simply must have a Mac with you at all times it would be a great solution.

OK. Despite myself I find myself getting interested in your 11" MacTouch. I am even planning my uses.

I am curious as to your vision. What price point do you see it at?
On a scale of 1 to 10 what sort of processor do you see? (1 being the iPhone and 10 being a MBP)
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post #188 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

OK. Despite myself I find myself getting interested in your 11" MacTouch. I am even planning my uses.

I am curious as to your vision. What price point do you see it at?
On a scale of 1 to 10 what sort of processor do you see? (1 being the iPhone and 10 being a MBP)

Price point would be somewhere around $1,299 +or- $1,000 I'd say, and processor would be around 6/10 on your rather scientific scale
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #189 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's easy to understand, once it's described.

But I don't see the built-in stand. I mentioned it days ago. Too easy to break when carried around. It will also add thicknessit has to go somewhere.

i just flew first class a few days ago and they handed out entertainment systems with personal video players. the video players were archos systems with a small stand that popped out from the back to prop the player up. worked quite well and the stand was only maybe 1.5mm thick. it was basically just a hinged prop that snapped into place. very easy to imagine. heck, you could also make the bottom part of the bezel rotate out to make a nice stand.
post #190 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by admactanium View Post

i just flew first class a few days ago and they handed out entertainment systems with personal video players. the video players were archos systems with a small stand that popped out from the back to prop the player up. worked quite well and the stand was only maybe 1.5mm thick. it was basically just a hinged prop that snapped into place. very easy to imagine. heck, you could also make the bottom part of the bezel rotate out to make a nice stand.

But those are small an lightweight. This is much bigger, and heavier. What works for one doesn't always work for another.
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