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Blu-ray vs. HD DVD (2008) - Page 6

post #201 of 2640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

I care as much about what Europe and Japan are watching as I do about VCDs and the PAL format.

Thats unfortunate for you then since the movie studios do need to care about what the rest of the world is using, since they'll be selling their movies in other territories than the US.
post #202 of 2640
Which they have been doing in multiple formats since the inception of the home video market. Remember, these are the people that put DVD region coding in place to artificially maintain geographic barriers for their markets.
post #203 of 2640
Quote:
Originally Posted by beg View Post

Thats unfortunate for you then since the movie studios do need to care about what the rest of the world is using, since they'll be selling their movies in other territories than the US.

So are the studios going to come take away my HD DVDs since almost the entire movie-watching population is using standard-definition DVDs? Blu-Ray may have a larger share of the high-definition market outside North America, but I would bet the high-def to standard-def ratio outside of North America is also significantly smaller. If Blu-Ray has 90% of the High-definition market in Japan, what percent of Japan's movie sales are high-definition? What percent of homes outside of North America even have HDTVs? I would bet its a smaller ratio than here, as 40" - 60" televisions seems like an over-excessive American thing to me.
post #204 of 2640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

I care as much about what Europe and Japan are watching as I do about VCDs and the PAL format.

You really are a complete ass
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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
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post #205 of 2640
Or maybe he's just a guy that knows that the format war in other countries will not necessarily affect the outcome in his own and therefore, doesn't care about them.
post #206 of 2640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

Or maybe he's just a guy that knows that the format war in other countries will not necessarily affect the outcome in his own and therefore, doesn't care about them.

HEY!.... quit using logic in here... this thread is strictly limited to emotional responses! (preferably with a bit of name-calling thrown in for good measure.)
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #207 of 2640
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

What are you, Marzetta7's second account? As I say to him, this is not a presidential election; nobody goes home empty-handed, and the loser having a 39% of the sales means nobody is getting "trounced". The ratio of sales for both formats are roughly the same as they were last February; this "war" has gone nowhere.

Are you just this wrong, this often, intentionally? Goodness, I hope so, because if you're not, you've been so misinformed, you don't know what reality really is.

Let us take your falsehood of a statement in "The ratio of sales for both formats are roughly the same as they were last February; this "war" has gone nowhere." And now let us take a look at he FACTS that directly CONTRADICT your falsehood...

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending January 28th

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...1107/index.php

WE: BD-70% HDD-30% YTD: BD-68% HDD-32% SI: BD-49% HDD-51%


Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending December 16th

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...3007/index.php

WE: BD-61% HDD-39% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-62% HDD-38%

And again, this is "just" NA numbers, where you see Blu-ray's Since Inception numbers that were actually at 41:59 in favor of HD DVD at the beginning of the year (January) and are now at 62:38 in favor of Blu-ray.

Mmm, yeah, moving 21 points in since inception ratio sales and yes, "trouncing" its competition at a ratio of roughly 2:1 all year long, week in week out, is really "gone nowhere"....yeah, maybe in HD DVD bizzaro world. And as others have stated, it is even worse internationally for HD DVD.

Come back to see us when HD DVD has something even close that resembles a valid argument or statement that isn't laced with FUD.
post #208 of 2640
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

So are the studios going to come take away my HD DVDs since almost the entire movie-watching population is using standard-definition DVDs? Blu-Ray may have a larger share of the high-definition market outside North America, but I would bet the high-def to standard-def ratio outside of North America is also significantly smaller. If Blu-Ray has 90% of the High-definition market in Japan, what percent of Japan's movie sales are high-definition? What percent of homes outside of North America even have HDTVs? I would bet its a smaller ratio than here, as 40" - 60" televisions seems like an over-excessive American thing to me.

No, they certainly won't come take away your HD DVDs,...you'll simply be stuck with a relic that studios will no longer create movies for...if that is a "win" for you...well, enjoy your laserdisc/betamax player along with your loss of cash to your full potential. In the meantime the rest of the public will be busy buying movies in the de facto high-def standard in Blu-ray.
post #209 of 2640
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

Are you just this wrong, this often, intentionally?

That's a very good question. In your own post we see that HD DVD is doing BETTER Year to Date than it was at the end of last January. Is that calendar year to date or since this date last year year to date? Either way HDDVD is showing improvement, I'm just curious.

The only numbers where HD DVD has slid significantly in the last year are since inception, which were skewed in HDDVD's favor at the beginning of this year since it had been out a good deal longer.
post #210 of 2640
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

No, they certainly won't come take away your HD DVDs,...you'll simply be stuck with a relic that studios will no longer create movies for...if that is a "win" for you...well, enjoy your laserdisc/betamax player along with your loss of cash to your full potential. In the meantime the rest of the public will be busy buying movies in the de facto high-def standard in Blu-ray.

As usual, you are dreaming. Your analogy is flawed because Laserdiscs and Betamax tapes were physically incompatible with the standards that ultimately prevailed (DVD and VHS).

Both HDM standards are physically compatible. If almost 40% of HDM sales are going to HD-DVD (as your numbers say) the worst case scenario for HD-DVD adopters is dual-format players.
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post #211 of 2640
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

That's a very good question. In your own post we see that HD DVD is doing BETTER Year to Date than it was at the end of last January. Is that calendar year to date or since this date last year year to date? Either way HDDVD is showing improvement, I'm just curious.

The only numbers where HD DVD has slid significantly in the last year are since inception, which were skewed in HDDVD's favor at the beginning of this year since it had been out a good deal longer.

That is for 2007 YTD. More specifically, for the beginning of the year 2007 to the end of 2007.

HD DVD only had a two month head start on Blu-ray in 2006. The issue was not so much that HD DVD had been on the market for a good deal longer, but that the PS3 effect hadn't been realized yet at the end of June '06. The YTD numbers are higher at the beginning of '07 because you basically have the PS3 effect reeling as well as only two months in the YTD numbers compared to a more average based number over the span of 12 months with the latter YTD numbers. In essence, the YTD numbers have barely nudged...that is Blu-ray maintaining a roughly 2:1 sales ratio all year long, while increasing their since inception number by 21 points.

You'll be hard pressed to try and find why this is any "improvement" for HD DVD.
post #212 of 2640
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

You'll be hard pressed to try and find why this is any "improvement" for HD DVD.

It's not much of an improvement, that's certain. It's what I and Cory Bauer would call "roughly the same" as February. But HD DVD is showing an improvement in 2 out of 3 of the statistics you yourself posted.

you said
Quote:
And now let us take a look at he FACTS that directly CONTRADICT your falsehood...

and immediately posted numbers that directly supported his falsehood.
post #213 of 2640
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

As usual, you are dreaming. Your analogy is flawed because Laserdiscs and Betamax tapes were physically incompatible with the standards that ultimately prevailed (DVD and VHS).

Both HDM standards are physically compatible. If almost 40% of HDM sales are going to HD-DVD (as your numbers say) the worst case scenario for HD-DVD adopters is dual-format players.

I'm dreaming? Because I could have sworn these aren't "my numbers" as they are the numbers of a third party called Nielsen Videoscan. I think someone else is dreaming in a coma and refuses to come out to face the bitter reality of the true numbers.

My analogy is certainly not flawed, as if Warner does indeed go Blu-ray exclusive, you can pretty much guarantee that HD DVD will become a relic. HD DVD remaining studios will follow suit in supporting Blu-ray.

By the way, it is more like 38% for HD DVD for YTD and dwindling as time goes on. This is the trend (21 points and counting), and it hasn't stopped for a year now. Is the almighty "price" argument that has failed for HD DVD all this time finally going to be its saving grace? Doubt it, as there are already $275-$299 Blu-ray players already on the market and price parity will be fully realized by Q4 of '08...that is, if there is a Q4 for HD DVD in '08.

So, I disagree with you as the "worst case scenario" you've described is for Blu-ray adopters, if Warner decides to go HD DVD exclusive--dual-format players due to there being a stalemate in the market place if Warner indeed went HD DVD exclusive. That scenario is least to be desired (for us consumers and especially for the studios) as it will certainly banish high-def into the netherworld of niche. No, the worst case scenario for HD DVD adopters is indeed that their proponents, having wasted cash on their beloved, inferior format will have a relic, and one that studios no longer provide movies for. But heh, you are entitled to your dreams.
post #214 of 2640
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

That scenario is least to be desired (for us consumers and especially for the studios) as it will certainly banish high-def into the netherworld of niche.

So if your HDM standard wins, everything will be rosy, but if the other guy's does, HDM is doomed to become a niche market?

This is why people absolutely hate Blu-Ray and its proponents. It's not the tech, it's the fanboys.

The Sony-inherited arrogance is always set to eleven, and FUD is merely a useful tool.
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post #215 of 2640
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

It's not much of an improvement, that's certain. It's what I and Cory Bauer would call "roughly the same" as February. But HD DVD is showing an improvement in 2 out of 3 of the statistics you yourself posted.

you said

and immediately posted numbers that directly supported his falsehood.

Either you are intentionally being naive, or simply don't understand numbers. Either way, I'd rather not waste the time or effort on one who is bent on trying to find exceptions and make them the rule.

You obviously need to understand that WE (week ending) is a a more volatile statistic, and goes up and down depending on number or releases, quality of releases, sales promotions, firesales, etc for each week. Do you you care to see the statistics WE for the week before when Blu-ray had a 76:24 ratio over HD DVD. In other words, WE is not supporting Cory or your weak assumptions. More falsehoods from you obviously.

Furthermore, again, with YTD if you've failed to "get it" the first time was only based upon 1 month of data with the first listing of data, whereas the latter of YTD data is based upon 12 months. In other words, you are attempting to support your weak assumption of "HD DVD improvement" from a fragment of data compared to the latter, more aggregate form of data. Again, more falsehoods from you, as this certainly doesn't support what Corey was stating...

Quote:
The ratio of sales for both formats are roughly the same as they were last February; this "war" has gone nowhere.

What ratio Guartho? You obviously are taking it upon yourself to talk in Corey's behalf in what he really "meant." And obviously, Corey now will say that he meant the YTD numbers (even though he stated "this 'war' has gone nowhere"), just as you've done so as to give himself and yourself some sense of credibility in your statements and sentiment--that HD DVD is improving somehow or holding steady--when that couldn't be farther from the truth when looking at the overall numbers which IS SINCE INCEPTION. And in this number you find HD DVD getting trounced just as everyone else can pretty much see, but you and your compadres have difficulty in coming to terms with...obviously...as what I stated directly refuted what Corey and yourself imply--that HD DVD is improving or somehow holding steady. And yet, you attempt to extract smaller, compartmentalized bits of data and try to apply them as a whole...sorry guy, the overall or "whole" statistic is right there (SI)...and it shows Blu-ray increasing its marketshare ratio by 21 points over the past year, and moreso in the past year and a half.

So no, I'd say you're wrong too, on trying to claim I submitted statistics that supported Corey's argument whatsoever.
post #216 of 2640
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post


Furthermore, again, with YTD if you've failed to "get it" the first time was only based upon 1 month of data with the first listing of data, whereas the latter of YTD data is based upon 12 months. In other words, you are attempting to support your weak assumption of "HD DVD improvement" from a fragment of data compared to the latter, more aggregate form of data. Again, more falsehoods from you, as this certainly doesn't support what Corey was stating...



I can't believe I'm doing this... ah well. This is what I am getting from your numbers. The sales ratio for all of 2007 was approximately the same as the sales ratio for just January. The sales ratio for all of 2007 is slightly better for HDDVD than it was for just January. How is that not an improvement, albeit a rather insignificant one?

It totally and completely supports the assertion that the HDM purchasing patterns of this country have gone pretty much unchanged all year. To put it another way;
Quote:
he ratio of sales for both formats are roughly the same as they were last February; this "war" has gone nowhere.

There is just no way you can spin your own numbers to contradict his statement.
post #217 of 2640
Quote:
when that couldn't be farther from the truth when looking at the overall numbers which IS SINCE INCEPTION. And in this number you find HD DVD getting trounced just as everyone else can pretty much see,

To be frank, looking purely at Since Inception and ignoring the other numbers is retarded. A year ago Blu-ray was being well and thoroughly trounced in Since Inception. Currently Since Inception reflects roughly the same ratio as YTD and the old YTD ( January To Date if you will.) So looking at the data you yourself provided in order of most to least volatile number we see that it's roughly the same as it has been all along. AKA "this format war is going nowhere."
post #218 of 2640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

It's not much of an improvement, that's certain. It's what I and Cory Bauer would call "roughly the same" as February. But HD DVD is showing an improvement in 2 out of 3 of the statistics you yourself posted.

you said

and immediately posted numbers that directly supported his falsehood.

lol, too funny. Blu-Ray to HD DVD sales have sat at about 2 to 1 all year, but with the way Marz talks you'd think they had slipped to 9 to 1 in the past 12 months

The fact that HD DVD can still account for 40% of a week's worth of High Def sales means they've managed to hold a significant portion of the market despite the PS3. Anything over 25% marketshare is worth producing media for. Universal, Paramount/Dreamworks and Warner currently share that 40% of the market three ways, where-as if any of them went Blu-Ray exclusive they'd be sharing 60% of the market five ways with Sony, Disney/Pixar, Fox, and Warner. Pretty dumb move, IMO.

Combo players make more sense by the day; let each studio stick to whichever format they prefer, and let the consumer not have to worry about it. Seems more logical than abandoning 40% of the high-definition market.
post #219 of 2640
The Toronto Star seems to say the winner is None of the Above.
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post #220 of 2640
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

To be frank, looking purely at Since Inception and ignoring the other numbers is retarded. A year ago Blu-ray was being well and thoroughly trounced in Since Inception. Currently Since Inception reflects roughly the same ratio as YTD and the old YTD ( January To Date if you will.) So looking at the data you yourself provided in order of most to least volatile number we see that it's roughly the same as it has been all along. AKA "this format war is going nowhere."

Good gosh man...you still aren't taking into account that HUGE factor called TIME. I know taking snapshots in certain points in time are HD DVD proponents "thing" but as we all know has been shown to be a fallacy much like you are attempting to do with the figures I submitted earlier. What is retarded is taking a YTD figure for 2007 after 1 month and saying that over a twelve month span, once the YTD figure has matured and averaged out, that HD DVD has improved.

Yes Blu-ray was thouroughly getting trounced when the market was about 4-6 months old and no PS3 or standalone player other than the Samsung could be had. Moreover, Universal was popping out movies as fast as they could, and actually had the content advantage. Now, take into account another year and 2 more months. That's a more mature and robust sampling my friend. And the only one getting trounced is HD DVD, as Blu-ray not only caught up to HD DVD, but surpassed them and averaged (and maintained) a 2:1 sales ratio over HD DVD in the states despite having one studio MIA in Fox for 9 months out of the year AND losing a studio to HD DVD due to the Microsoft/Toshiba $150 million dollar bribe.

It amazes me that getting outsold 2:1 is somehow progress for HD DVD proponents and is considered "going nowhere." I guess when the ratio approaches 3:1, you guys will be calling it market saturation, or something else equally as ridiculous.
post #221 of 2640
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

lol, too funny. Blu-Ray to HD DVD sales have sat at about 2 to 1 all year, but with the way Marz talks you'd think they had slipped to 9 to 1 in the past 12 months

The fact that HD DVD can still account for 40% of a week's worth of High Def sales means they've managed to hold a significant portion of the market despite the PS3. Anything over 25% marketshare is worth producing media for. Universal, Paramount/Dreamworks and Warner currently share that 40% of the market three ways, where-as if any of them went Blu-Ray exclusive they'd be sharing 60% of the market five ways with Sony, Disney/Pixar, Fox, and Warner. Pretty dumb move, IMO.

Combo players make more sense by the day; let each studio stick to whichever format they prefer, and let the consumer not have to worry about it. Seems more logical than abandoning 40% of the high-definition market.

Not dumb at all when you take the time to consider that if Warner goes Blu-ray exclusive, they avoid high-def going niche due to two formats being on the market. What's more logical? Either Warner...

1) Staying neutral and prolonging the inevitable victory of the Blu-ray format, and quite possibly harming the high-def market as a whole as consumers wait out. Not to mention affecting their bottom line when if they dropped neutrality to Blu-ray they would allow mass consumption of high-def media to insue.

or

2) Going HD DVD exclusive and TRULY causing a stalemate in the market of movie content, thus giving the whole high-def market its own version of seppuku. Not to mention probably not being in the best interest of Warner considering they are in the business of making $$$ of of disc sales.

or

3) Going Blu-ray exclusive and in one blow ending the format war and allowing mass consumption of high-def media to be realized. Not to mention probably being in the best interest in Warner as well as the majority of the high-def consumers as it would allow high-def to become mainstream, and allow profits to rise exponentially due to an increase in demand.

Moreover, the 38% share of the market SI (NOT 40%) that HD DVD has, has dropped--like I said earlier--21 points over the 12 month span of 2007. Progress indeed...into an abyss. But maybe this drop is the sign of a "stalemate" you are talking about...
post #222 of 2640
Thread Starter 
I have to say...if Dell can do it...I know Apple can do it better...

http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/del...ml?tag=upidmlp

...I wonder if Apple has a surprise announcement for us come Macworld a la Blu-ray equipped hardware?
post #223 of 2640
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

Good gosh man...you still aren't taking into account that HUGE factor called TIME. I know taking snapshots in certain points in time are HD DVD proponents "thing" but as we all know has been shown to be a fallacy much like you are attempting to do with the figures I submitted earlier. What is retarded is taking a YTD figure for 2007 after 1 month and saying that over a twelve month span, once the YTD figure has matured and averaged out, that HD DVD has improved.

Ok Marz, get this through your Durabis coated head; We all know that the Jan YTD number really just means January. Everyone is treating that as January's number only. Only you are claiming that anyone is confused on that point. The other 11 MONTHS did not change the ratio. That's the point. For all of 2007 the ratio has remained the same. No one is saying that that is good or bad for HD DVD. Once again you're trying to put words in our mouths. We are only saying that the format war is stalled. I only pointed out the "improvement" because you tried to claim HDDVD was losing ground. I really wish I hadn't mentioned the small increase since it is insignificant and you seem to have latched on to that small tertiary point like a rabid Jack Russell Terrier.
post #224 of 2640
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

Not dumb at all when you take the time to consider that if Warner goes Blu-ray exclusive, they avoid high-def going niche due to two formats being on the market. What's more logical? Either Warner...

1) Staying neutral and prolonging the inevitable victory of the Blu-ray format, and quite possibly harming the high-def market as a whole as consumers wait out. Not to mention affecting their bottom line when if they dropped neutrality to Blu-ray they would allow mass consumption of high-def media to insue.

or

2) Going HD DVD exclusive and TRULY causing a stalemate in the market of movie content, thus giving the whole high-def market its own version of seppuku. Not to mention probably not being in the best interest of Warner considering they are in the business of making $$$ of of disc sales.

or

3) Going Blu-ray exclusive and in one blow ending the format war and allowing mass consumption of high-def media to be realized. Not to mention probably being in the best interest in Warner as well as the majority of the high-def consumers as it would allow high-def to become mainstream, and allow profits to rise exponentially due to an increase in demand.

Moreover, the 38% share of the market SI (NOT 40%) that HD DVD has, has dropped--like I said earlier--21 points over the 12 month span of 2007. Progress indeed...into an abyss. But maybe this drop is the sign of a "stalemate" you are talking about...

Oh of course Marz, because if Warner went Blu-Ray exclusive then the 75% of HDTV owners would instantaneously change their mind about DVD being good enough for them

Even if Warner went Blu-Ray exclusive, your PS3 movie format is still short two major studios. Are you just going to avoid Universal and Dreamworks/Paramount films like the plague? Oh that's right, you said that if Warner went Blu, then suddenly Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks would turn their backs on 38% of the high-def market in favor of paying distribution royalties to a competing studio and sharing the other 62% of the market with four other studios

Great business sense.
post #225 of 2640
Actually I think if if warner went Blu Ray exclusive within a years time HD-DVD would be no more.

Why? The rate of NEW Blu Ray owners would grow exponentially, and leave HD-DVD with about 8% sales vs. 92%, and yes the other two studios would see the obvious benefits of selling more movies rather than having a partnering deal with a dead format.
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post #226 of 2640
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

Actually I think if if warner went Blu Ray exclusive within a years time HD-DVD would be no more.

Why? The rate of NEW Blu Ray owners would grow exponentially, and leave HD-DVD with about 8% sales vs. 92%, and yes the other two studios would see the obvious benefits of selling more movies rather than having a partnering deal with a dead format.

If HD DVD sales fell below 10%, yes it would most definitely make sense for Univeral & Dreamworks/Paramount to jump ship. I would expect nothing less. With 75% of HDTV owners saying DVD is good enough for them however, I don't see how Blu-Ray could grow exponentially, Warner-exclusive or not. I'm afraid high-def playback is going to have to become a standard feature of DVD players in order for Joe Consumer to end up with high-def discs in his home. Like the HDTV, consumers ain't buying until they can't buy one that isn't.
post #227 of 2640
Apple set to ship Macs with Blu-Ray at MWSF?

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...rt_report.html

post #228 of 2640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

If HD DVD sales fell below 10%, yes it would most definitely make sense for Univeral & Dreamworks/Paramount to jump ship. I would expect nothing less. With 75% of HDTV owners saying DVD is good enough for them however, I don't see how Blu-Ray could grow exponentially, Warner-exclusive or not. I'm afraid high-def playback is going to have to become a standard feature of DVD players in order for Joe Consumer to end up with high-def discs in his home. Like the HDTV, consumers ain't buying until they can't buy one that isn't.

It's more than merely saying that the frame of mind is that "DVD is good enough for them". HD just like DVD once was is in it's early years, and High Def format DVD players are still in their infancy. It took about 7 - 8 years (1995 to 2003) before DVD overtook VHS. The difference here is that the high def formatted DVD's are growing faster than DVD was. People are considering the purchase much earlier being the video store already has most of their titles, and they can still play anything on DVD with a high def formatted DVD player. The Porn industry didn't even move to DVD until a few years ago, and they are already on the move to both formats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by taken from an archived article I forget where

DVD officially became the world's format of choice in 2002. Worldwide consumer spending on DVD overtook consumer spending on VHS for the first time in 2002. Consumer spending on DVD software rose to $22.7bn in 2002, compared with spending on VHS software of $19.6bn.

Unprecedented take-up of the DVD format marks a fundamental shift in consumers' preference from the analogue cassette to the digital disc.

The digital nature of DVD has proven to be popular with consumers as it offers a vast improvement in sound and picture quality over VHS cassettes or VCDs, provides for more features such as alternate endings or directors' commentaries and has transformed the viewing experience so that consumers may select favourite scenes rather than watch the whole film. Adding to the popularity of DVD Videos is that many computers and gaming systems can now play them. These and other portable devices enable consumers to watch DVDs in remote locations away from the conventional television set, allowing the viewing of a film or programme to become a solitary, rather than communal experience.

Consumer spending on retail and rental DVD software rose to $17.2bn and $5.6bn respectively in 2002, compared with spending on retail and rental VHS software of $7.7bn and $11.9bn respectively.
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post #229 of 2640
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopy View Post

Apple set to ship Macs with Blu-Ray at MWSF?

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...rt_report.html


Now that's what I'm talkin' bout!
post #230 of 2640
Thread Starter 
A Retail Perspective on the Format War

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...ial010108.html

Quote:
As the high-definition format war rages on, one thing I keep hearing over and over in various interviews and discussion forums is the phrase "let the consumer decide." But that's actually more of a marketing term than an actual practice or truth when it comes to the retail industry. As a former video buyer for a chain of audio/video media stores that catered to enthusiasts, I hope I can provide a unique perspective on this notion that hasn't had a lot of discussion thus far.

When I used to sit down with my order book to try and make buying decisions, I would often use Video Store News (now Home Media Magazine) and Variety to consider factors like the box office take of a film. I also looked at enthusiast magazines and websites to find those "video specials" to take a chance on - titles like Equilibrium or the upcoming Sunshine - that have great response from fans, but had a small and fast box office run. Of course, you always had a decent idea that blockbuster titles like Transformers or the latest Matrix film would sell based on prior big movies, but the real skill was in anticipating the small titles that boom.

A major factor in how many of those titles I could purchase for our chain, and how many I could stock, was the physical space I had available to put them in. Sure, I could order 15 copies of Sunshine, but can I move them inside of a couple weeks? Because I need space for the 60-70 copies of Saw IV I'm going to get in. Achieving that balance point between the evergreen catalog titles (steady sellers), the slow moving catalog titles (you need to have them, but they don't sell every week), the new releases and the eclectic stuff (that takes forever to sell, but it's worth the smile on the person's face when they find it in your store), is the goal of every buyer. But hitting that balance point means that you're not going to have a lot of shelf space to play with, and if you guess wrong, then you're up a creek without a paddle for a week or more, with either the back room overflowing with product, or empty shelves and annoyed customers.

All this brings me to my point: The big box retailers like Best Buy or Wal-Mart are the primary conduits through which video titles move to the general public. Like it or not, home video HAS to be a mainstream product for the studios to make money. Wal-Mart alone moves about 30-40% of all home video product (though Best Buy and Amazon are moving more high-definition software right now because enthusiasts tend to shop online). Less than 1 in 5 DVDs are sold online.

Recently, Best Buy has reconfigured their high-definition software areas to either a 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 Blu-ray Disc vs. HD-DVD split, depending on the store's sales. Typically, this is now filling around a full aisle on both sides. Given the number of units that high-definition media is currently shifting, it's unlikely they will be willing to expand past this aisle in the near future. So now that the Christmas shopping season is over, they'll have to start making a choice: Which format is going to start losing shelf space?

A decision like that, for a large retailer, is more complicated than just what the split of media sales is. There are other questions to be asked. For example: How well does the format support the rest of their product lines? Which format helps them move more TVs, cables, and furniture? Which generates more profit on average? Any retailer worth his salt right now would rather move 1 Blu-ray player a week with a $150 profit margin (35% is standard markup at retail), than 5 HD-DVD players that they make a reported $30-50 margin on (a number that's reportedly been maintained even with the recent fire sales). Why? Because it costs less to store and ship 1 player as opposed to 5, given those profit margins, and it also requires far less of an investment in terms of your purchasing budget. The large margin also allows for active discounting to bundle the player with TVs and other accessories, and to drive sales across the board. In addition, the large number of manufacturers and products associated with Blu-ray (from the PS3, to laptops and desktops with drives, to set top players and TVs) results in exponentially more ad buys in the circular, and more end cap displays in the stores. Right now many Best Buy stores have 6 standalone displays featuring Blu-ray Disc, and just 2 for HD-DVD (counting LG's combo player as 1 each).

So in the end, this notion of "letting the consumer decide" is something of a fallacy. It's the retailers who actually decide what products consumers get to chose from, and they're going to pick and stock the products that bring them the most money for the least amount of work. If they don't stock something, you can't buy it. What's more, if they aren't stocking a product, the chances are good that mainstream consumers will never notice that it's missing. Fewer consumers still (outside of early adopters who are heavily invested and pay close attention to such things) will have the motivation to go seek it out online.

Right now, in the wake of the Christmas shopping season, all of the signs (from industry insider rumblings to how high-definition hardware and software are being pushed in stores) tell me that the major retailers will call the ball on this format war very soon, and those signs are all pointing in Blu-ray Disc's favor. Consider that despite the $169 HD-DVD player at Sears on Black Friday, Blu-ray Disc players that were over twice as expensive outsold it 2 to 1. How long did it take for the Hollywood studios to completely dump VHS (in favor of DVD) after Best Buy and Wal-Mart did? About a year, and they dumped VCRs without built-in DVD drives about a year after that.

For high-definition media to thrive, anyone with experience in the retail industry knows that one of these formats must live and one must die, and that's going to happen sooner rather than later, no matter what Toshiba or Sony or Microsoft or the Blu-ray Disc Association or the HD-DVD Promotions Group want. If one of these formats isn't ultimately chosen by the studios and manufacturers, then sooner or later the big box stores will decide that neither of them is worth the effort, and that won't be good for anyone - not the studios, not the retailers and especially not the consumer.

Thought I'd share this well written article with you all with my empasis added. Jeff makes some great points and echoes what a lot of us have been stating in regards to the format war here.
post #231 of 2640
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopy View Post

Apple set to ship Macs with Blu-Ray at MWSF?

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...rt_report.html


Does this mean we can finally get this thread out of the Futures Board and into either Current Hardware or General Discussion where it truly belongs?
post #232 of 2640
I'll gladly buy a Mac Pro with a Blu-Ray drive to use for backing up my files. I don't DRM my own discs.

However, I'm not buying into a movie format for my TV room just because I have a similar drive for my office files.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #233 of 2640
Quote:
Which format helps them move more TVs, cables, and furniture? Which generates more profit on average? Any retailer worth his salt right now would rather move 1 Blu-ray player a week with a $150 profit margin (35% is standard markup at retail), than 5 HD-DVD players that they make a reported $30-50 margin on (a number that's reportedly been maintained even with the recent fire sales). Why? Because it costs less to store and ship 1 player as opposed to 5, given those profit margins, and it also requires far less of an investment in terms of your purchasing budget.

Thats been easy to see for a while now, at least for those of use not blinded by a love for a failing format. I guess price does NOT really trump all how long we been saying that?
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
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post #234 of 2640
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

Thats been easy to see for a while now, at least for those of use not blinded by a love for a failing format. I guess price does NOT really trump all how long we been saying that?

Long time my friend...a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.

On another note, here are the results for the week ending December 23rd...

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending December 23rd

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...0608/index.php

WE: BD-61% HDD-39% YTD: BD-64% HDD-36% SI: BD-62% HDD-38%



post #235 of 2640
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlaySta...oduction_costs

From October 2007 to November 2007, sales of the PlayStation 3 went up by 285% in the United States.[65] Sony CEO Howard Stringer contributes the growth to a price cut and Nintendo's problems with production of the Wii system.[66]

The cost reduction figures and reduction in sales price appears to have begun to reach the consumer in the US.
post #236 of 2640
Yawn

Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum.

I use my "failing format" almost everyday to good effect. I'll probably add a Blu-ray player by summer since the pricing is coming into line with my expectations. And when that happens I will have still paid less than most movie lovers who bought first and second generation BD players.

Plus I'll be buying a HD camcorder this year as all so my HD DVD player will always get work.
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post #237 of 2640
Well I like having access to a larger library, so I picked Blu-Ray. I don't have anything against HD-DVD though. Thinking about getting the drive for the 360.

But today I had my LiteOn DH-401S Blu-Ray reader delivered. Just gotta hook up some SATA cables and I'm in the future

MacBook Pro 15" | Intel Core2 Duo 2.66GHz | 320GB HDD | OS X v10.9
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MacBook Pro 15" | Intel Core2 Duo 2.66GHz | 320GB HDD | OS X v10.9
Black/Space Grey iPad Air with Wi-Fi & LTE | 128GB | On 4GEE
White iPhone 5 | 64GB | On 3UK

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post #238 of 2640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jensonb View Post

Well I like having access to a larger library, so I picked Blu-Ray. I don't have anything against HD-DVD though. Thinking about getting the drive for the 360.

But today I had my LiteOn DH-401S Blu-Ray reader delivered. Just gotta hook up some SATA cables and I'm in the future

Me too that's why i'm going to own both. Sure sucks but not as much as a whole in your head LOL.

If Microsoft actually did HTPC right it would be nice to have a HTPC with a Universal drive but that's not the case. Where the fook is Managed Copy?
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
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post #239 of 2640
Thread Starter 
Here's the BOMB of all BOMBS...

Warner Bros to back Blu-ray DVD format exclusively

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssC...44635420080104

Quote:
NEW YORK/LOS ANGELES, Jan 4 (Reuters) - Time Warner Inc's (TWX.N: Quote, Profile, Research) Warner Bros studio on Friday said it would exclusively release high-definition DVDs in Sony Corp's (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research) Blu-ray format, dealing a big blow to Toshiba Corp's (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research) rival HD DVD technology.

Warner Bros, Hollywood's biggest seller of DVDs, representing about 18 to 20 percent of sales in the United States, was one of the few studios that backed both formats.

All sides of the format war had agreed it was confusing to consumers and a stumbling block for a potential multibillion-dollar industry.

Total DVD unit sales fell 4.5 percent in 2007, the first major year-over-year decline since the disc format debuted in 1997, according to Adams Media Research. Sales fell 4.8 percent to $15.7 billion.

"The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger. We believe that exclusively distributing in Blu-ray will further the potential for mass market success and ultimately benefit retailers, producers, and most importantly, consumers," Warner Bros Chairman and Chief Executive Barry Meyer said in a statement.

News Corp's (NWSa.N: Quote, Profile, Research) 20th Century Fox, Walt Disney Co (DIS.N: Quote, Profile, Research), and Lionsgate (LGF.N: Quote, Profile, Research) are among studios backing the Blu-ray format. Viacom Inc's (VIAb.N: Quote, Profile, Research) Paramount studios and General Electric's (GE.N: Quote, Profile, Research) NBC Universal release movies in HD DVD format.

Warner said it would continue releasing in the HD DVD format until the end of May, although those releases would follow the standard DVD and Blu-ray releases. (Reporting by Kenneth Li in New York and Bob Tourtellotte and Peter Henderson in Los Angeles; Editing by Brian Moss)

Goodbye HD DVD...goodbye. Don't let the door hit your vagina on the way out. JK (It was a line from, Knocked Up, a soon to be Blu-ray movie from Universal )
post #240 of 2640
Thread Starter 
This is my favorite part...

Quote:
"The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger. We believe that exclusively distributing in Blu-ray will further the potential for mass market success and ultimately benefit retailers, producers, and most importantly, consumers," Warner Bros Chairman and Chief Executive Barry Meyer said in a statement.
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