Blu-ray vs. HD DVD (2008) - Page 61

Yes they are. They're older HD transfers. I think they were both transferred to HD in 2000 or 2001. I'm not sure if they're progressive transfers or 60i. But they sure as hell look pretty good.

You PS3 owners will love the movie streaming. Trust me on this. You have to try it.

No. That just happens amongst the teen boys. The serious gamers already know that the Xbox360 is a superior gaming platform because of the ease of developing games on it. But we still want Sony to keep fighting with Microsoft so they keep trying to oneup each other by making better consoles in the future.

Agreed. If left to compete with a gimmicky little toy like the Wii who knows what would happen to the industry.

I'll go out on a limb here and say after the sub-par showing from Sony this E3 if Killzone 2 doesn't deliver on the hype and become a massive triple AAA seller for the PS3 I think Sony's console is dead as a gaming platform this generation.

What exactly do you predict is going to happen, divine intervention? That's about what's necessary to kill either the PS3 or the 360 as a gaming platform at this point. 14m installed base with lead position in Europe and Japan for the PS3, 20m installed base with lead position in the US for the 360. Also note that the PS3 snagged the lead in Europe despite being priced outrageously and launching 16 months after the 360.

You forget that the PS3 is being used more as a well priced Blu Ray player rather than a gaming machine. So a "numbers sold" comparo doesn't tell the whole story.

FWIW I doubt Sony will throw in the towel on gaming myself.

Yes, read above. Oh, and there is no indication that the PS3 is ahead in Europe. It's close, but the PS3 is definitely not beating the 360. And please try to understand the argument here first. The cost in developing games for the PS3 is much higher than the 360 and the return is much less.

Only a few titles have made profit on that machine. It's a risky venture. That's why i'm saying if Killzone 2 bombs a lot of publishers are definitely releasing for the 360 (i'm looking at MGS4 already coming) and maybe even completely jumping ship.

Resistance looks more awesome than Killzone.

Did anyone see the fight with Leviathan?

Insane.

I thought Sony did a great job with their conference.

TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY SIX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Watched Batman Begins last night Brilliant movie! great transfer I thought easily on a par with casino royal despite the Bat being almost all shades of black!

but the IMAX prologue for dark knight just ROCKED! really could just sit and watch 2 hours of the exploits of the joker without the big bat getting in the way

I don't know what the latest thinking is on a ledger replacement, but judging from all I've heard and that brief trailer it looks like it would be damn near unpossible!

Might do something I haven't done in years and go DK on opening night.

it will certainly be a purchase on BD.

I try not to do this but... anyone apart from PS3 owners and die hard Sony fans would say that monster battle was probably the most scripted, lamest, 300ft monster battle ever shown and resentments around the other sections of the gaming web (such as NeoGaf) are echoing the same. I think that vid did worse for the game than good.

And two hundred and fifty six? I'll believe it when i see it. Not to mention most games beyond 8v8 are a mess.

Can you not read?

I press "rent" on the AppleTV. HD movie ready to watch in 5 minutes.
How exactly does that prove your point?

I included the link to show that Sony, masters of the BlooRae are also hedging their bets.

BREAKING NEWS
Yesterday Sony announced they would be launching a movie downloading store. HD and SD.

C.

NOT SO BREAKING NEWS
Edison launches "Wax-Cyl" a new format for high definition audio distribution.

How much higher? How much less? Is this based on actual industry data, sources you have real trust in, or rumors and gamer forum yammer?

At the low end of the pool, it's obvious that Microsoft does a lot better, being able to offer a really low barrier of entry due to Windows-360 integration and XNA. But when it comes to larger projects, I'd like to see proof before accepting that cost is "much higher".

I know a handful of PS3 developers personally, and haven't heard bitching about the development facilities. One of them, engaged in low-level engine development, seemed quite positive about the Cell for the simple reason that it had enough power to do what he needed for the particular project. Naturally he was still GPU bound, but had up to 70% SPU utilization. This means a data mass that's beyond the ability of other consoles to deal with.

You can bet that bad coders will complain, but the truth is you can't afford to doze off at CS classes and expect to be an engine developer for a major title anymore.
So? Less artificial exclusives = good. It doesn't do any good to a gamer that another gamer is denied access to a particular game. Segregation of games and peripherals is a cancer on the industry.
Now why would they do that? 14m installed base is 14m installed base. It's a lot of room to sell a quality game.

Batman Begins is a very strong film. I think Heath Ledger just set the standard for The Joker. I think Nicholson will always be the favorite Joker for the "comic book" versions of Batman. Ledger will be the high water mark for the "graphic novel" version of Batman.

John Carmack? Rockstar? Harmonix? Bethesda? Capcom?

How many developers, publishers, and individuals in the industry do you want me to name that has either come out and personally blasted the platform, delayed their games, or put out an inferior port?

Would you say those guys are "bad coders" ? I never said a good game can't be done on the PS3 but it takes more effort, more money, and more time than what is required on the 360.

That's just the truth, and it's been the truth since the PS2. Difference is this gen they have a competitor with enough install base and momentum to go toe to toe.

Am I missing something?

can the xbox 360 deliver HD movies on an optical format?

no.

why are people talking about it then?

anyone know when Taxidermia is likely to be released?

Because part of the thread turned into what a disaster the PS3 has been.

Might I suggest that the "PS3 is rubbish" discussion move into this thread....
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...station&page=6

Leaving this thread to discussing the merits of Wax-Cyl.

C.

I've discovered I'm much more pleased with Blu-ray being my choice as opposed to downloading.

Downloading an HD movie takes ages.

With a typical 7mb ADSL line....
Press "RENT" on AppleTV and you can press PLAY a few minutes later.

You can watch as the movie is being downloaded.
It can take 5 minutes to navigate all the crap at the front of most DVDs.

C.

Try hitting menu.

typical? TYPICAL!!!?
TYPICAL!!!!!

Don't know about the UK, but 7MBps is a typical internet connection in major cities on this side of the pond now.

"That operation is not supported"

C.

Sorry, I don't get the joke.
7mb is glacial in Japan, slow in Europe. Average in the UK.
What's your speed Walter?

C.

Globally, I bet 7mb is a good average (if not a little low). Here in the US, I would bet it is closer to 3mb. Cables lowest speed seems to be around 6mb, and FIOS lowest is 10mb. DSL is the low hanging fruit with 1.5mb. So I think that while 7mb may not be typical here in the US, it is obtainable if one wants to pay for it. Of the three places I have lived at over the last 6 years (all in the US), I have had 8mb cable ($55/month), 6mb DSL ($34/month), and now 10mb fiber ($55/month).

cant find the link I read a few weeks back, which talked about the fact that there were more people with broadband in outside the cities (yeah, weird isnt it) in the UK.

but This from the BBC is a list of "average" users in the UK, and barring the student/university access, there is little above 6, with an occasional 8.

lots of 1s and lower and a fair number of 2s (no, please don't make the joke )

mine, I'm sitting at a spotty 1 on a good day if the conditions are right.

I don't think of myself as average, but given the complaining on the above link, maybe I actually am.

The Register has This story clocking the UK average at 1.92337164 mbps admittedly only from a survey of 1000 but then that IS 999 more than me on my own.

and a quick spot of googling gets this story from the guardian Saying 3mbps is the UK average.

neither of those is anywhere near 7 now, is it? so 7 would hardly appear to be "average"

world wide, and yeah Japan will skew it upwards, but then lets add in africa, and that will skew it a whole load of downwards again.

what are people willing to pay? in the UK it seems "as little as possible" which probably contributes to the low speeds.

as for me, I have little complaint yet, but some days, it ticks me off, its the price one pays living so far from the exchange, but I dream of the day when 2mbps is the LEAST I can expect.

There are people paying for broadband and getting crap. I pay for 8mb. And I get 7mb. But I do pay quite a high price.

I suspect that in a year's time. These speeds will double. So I guess even you Walter will be able to download a movie in less time than it takes to play it. In other words, at streaming speed.

That's kind of my point. As soon as you get to that speed. Downloading movies (even HD movies) becomes virtually instant.

SO back to WaxCyl....

Movies to me are really just data files. The very idea of collection of files in a physical pile of disks is very silly and old fashioned. For the same price as a BluRay player, you can buy a Drobo.

C.

You are aware that "graphic novel" is just a glorified way of saying "comic book" right?

Zing!

mm.. I was gonna chop the end of that off, but actually I'm looking at a Drobo some time in the next 6 months

one thing though, can you quit with the wax cylinder attitude, I mean if you don't believe in the tech. at least do the rest of us that do a favour and stay away from the topic. its almost like posting here how vista is great in every post.

you get 7mb, BUT you pay for it, now on top of your rental fee how does/would your movie viewing cost you in comparison to discs in the post?

you get 7mb, so if that drops to 5 or 3 even, you are likely still in good shape to stream SD and likely even HD. but you have missed my point, the AVERAGE user in the UK is getting 3 at the top end of the scale, now if they are paying a minimum fee for that access, it it also likely they have other demands on their money, say a family to support, and it doesn't take too many people using a connection to start splitting the bandwidth into an unusable (for streaming) state if it STARTS off at 3mb.

will it double in a years time? well it wouldn't be something I'd bet on, moores law doesnt work on BB speeds I'm afraid lovely if it happens.

we need the biggest percentage of people possible to have "at least HD download/streaming speed broadband" before this will take off as the "next thing", I'm convinced it WILL take off eventually.
in the mean time, BD is filling in nicely. I was in (the chain store) Currys the other day (not a normal occurrence) and two things struck me 1. they had a VHS/DVD/Blu ray comparison running on a few of the large screens. it really has taken a while to get this far!

and 2. between that and the second record shop closing down, where is all the advertising to the average consumer going to be for streaming? there were some BDs in the record shop, there were some BDs in the local Game, there were some BDs in Currys, and some in Wellworths (didnt go into Asda or Tescos).. all a persistent forma of advertising to joe public.

Were are the equivalent ads for Apple TV? I havent seen any banner ads, in fact the only place you will see it is on Apples own site, and even then its hardly on the main page. Much as I like my Apple TV (about 45 days worth of movies and TV shows ripped) I don't see it getting much love from Apple in terms of advertising.

Cringley's latest piece is about the immediate future on broadband and DTV.
While it's not directly related to Movie downloading, it's a very interesting read.

Sorry about the Wax-Cyl thing. It is kind of glib. But this thread has turned into BluRay versus digital - instead of BluRay verus HDDVD.

It's just that I really started to hate DVDs. It's become a sort of quest. I'll explain why.

Don't get me wrong. I own hundreds of DVDs. I have about equal numbers of Region 1 and Region 2 disks. And that's where my hatred started to grown.

It was when my hardware stopped me watching films that I had actually paid for. That made me mad. Really quite annoyed. And I wanted revenge on the people that had imposed this on me.

The second thing was the stupid menus and non-skippable lectures on piracy. If you have ever rented from Lovefilm, you'll know the drill. For Americans out there, Lovefilm is the UKs version of Netflix. All the rental disks have been remastered to include antipiracy lectures that look a lot like this. (But not as funny)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OyoFVGvks4

And third reason was my epiphany that all movies were either "renters" or "keepers"
Keepers are totally worth 20 quid. You watch them again and again. They become a part of your life.

But renters are the ones you watch once, and know you'll never ever watch again. If you spend £10 on a renter. It's £10 wasted. Watch once and forget. The right price is 2-4 quid. Based on the quality and the newness.

The people pushing blu-ray want us to re-buy our DVD collection. They want region-locking. They want the freedom to pimp up the disk with some interactive crap. They want industrial strength DRM. They certainly don't want me putting stuff I bought on a Drobo or an iPod.

What I want is a file. Just the file. I just want to watch the goddamn movie. I want to watch it in Europe *and* the US. I want to watch it on TV and on my iPod. And if it's a keeper. I'll pay for the extras, I'll pay for the directors commentary. I'll relish every frigging pixel.

But if it is a renter. Then just no! No effing way am I paying 24 quid up front for a movie that I will watch only once. My disillusionment with blu-ray is that they seem to be saying that every movie is a keeper.

And you know that isn't really tru, Ray.

C.

IN DEMAND is a segue to the cable companies having their own digital distribution system for the studios. I watch it all the time. It's free if you already have the channels. Apple, Microsoft, and Sony are going to get cut out because it's going to be so much cleaner, and cheaper to do all this straight from your cable box. Apple had a chance to buy Scientific Atlanta, one of the biggest, and best box manufacturers and let it go. At least they could have made the box, and then with their foot in the door they could have software updated the units to have iTunes delivery straight into the living room. I think they all shot themselves in the foot.

the wax cyl thing I get, but with the fanboyism from certain posters on, lets face it, off topic bollox... ahh.. no probs

I agree with the anti piracy thing, I've been there shouting at the telly "I bought you you FUKK!" etc. but recently I've mellowed, stick the disc in a moment or two earlier, pour a cuppa and then sit down.

equally, I'm there on the file bit, watching a lot of stuff on my iPod and AppleTV, click - film/programme starts - happy viewer. but thats minus all the ripping hassle!

then you sit down to watch a BD disc at 1080p and your eyes just don't know whats happened to them the image is SO sharp compared to a rip, compared to SD-DVD. Is it worth the expense? mmm hell yeah, if its a keeper.

Currently looking at ebaying a boat load of "renters" I bought and admittedly, watched at least twice! recording film four (for volume) or BBC (for better quality) and then spending a few minutes in MpegStreamclip to chop out the ads/top and tail knock a few of those out and then leave to batch process over night.. why rent again?

When there are actually iPod versions included ON a BD disc, or even links to a free iPod version on SD-DVDs on EVERY disc, then us "not wanting to invest in a possibly intermediate format" types will put our money more readily where the studios want us to
In the mean time its either buy both and rip the SD or buy the BD rent the SD and rip it. or go on the interwebs and nab a rip from the lime/torrents.

or just get the SD, or just get the BD.

or go for the Apple sanctioned version.... and I'm not so inclined to go there JUST yet, unless as you say, its for a renter, which I must confess I haven't ventured as far as doing yet.

still havent bought 2001 (again) on BD, but film fours Kubrick season has made it almost an impulse buy, except I have things to do, and I KNOW I'd sit and watch it twice at least!

got the toys, now need to find more time to play with them

I don't know if getting a blu ray to your iPod is going to be that difficult. They started selling DVD's with a second DVD called a digital copy disk
The second disk has a Digital transfer for your iPod, or computer that you can load in just few minutes. Being that DVD and Blu Ray are essentially being pushed by the same people I don't see why, with all that space, that a Blu Ray disk couldn't also contain a digital copy on it. Obviously there isn't one on there now but once DVD starts going the way of the do do bird, I'm sure there will be a demand for it. There probably is already discussion about it internally.

Thought most of that was fair comment and, all things being equal, it may well come to pass.

then (I think) the second commenter said the following


Which is a BIT short sighted given the prospect of looking into the future, but then if enough people think that way, that is what will happen.

perhaps some skating to where the puck WILL be is in order, rather than worry about the impact of today ONLY, yes keep it in consideration, but lets not have it cloud our plans completely.

Well, only an idiot wouldn't appreciate the nuanced differences between the two. But, oh well. Snark away.

Call me all the names you like, but there no subtle difference between a comic book, and a graphic novel. They are exactly the same thing.

Uh huh. Sure.

I guess that's why the industry decided to differentiate the two by, you know, creating a completely different category...hence, "graphic novel." But whatev. Your opinion is superior.