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Briefly: Mac OS X 10.4.11 Server; Phase for iPod; Eisner on Jobs

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 
Mac OS X 10.4.11 has resurfaced in the form of new server builds on Wednesday. Meanwhile, Apple has released 'Phase,' a new interactive iPod music game from the creators of Guitar Hero. And former Disney chief Michael Eisner has some choice words regarding Apple's dominance of the digital media market.

Mac OS X 10.4.11

Much has been made of absence of Mac OS X 10.4.11 Update thus far. The final update to Apple's Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger operating system appeared to be nearing a release alongside Leopard two weeks ago when the company seeded builds 8S2165 (Intel) and 8S165 (PowerPC) without specifying any outstanding issues with the software.

Since then, little has been heard about the impending update. However, Apple on Wednesday asked its developers to test a pair of new Mac OS X 10.4.11 Server builds alongside the first pre-release builds of Mac OS X 10.5.1 Leopard.

The builds, labeled Mac OS X Server 10.4.11 (Intel) build 8S2169 and Mac OS X Server 10.4.11 (PowerPC) build 8S169, include only minor tweaks to Mac OS X 10.4.11 Server's installer script and a couple of its software utilities.

Phase for iPod

Meanwhile, MacNN reports that Apple on Tuesday released through its iTunes Store a new iPod rhythm game published by MTV Networks but developed by Guitar Hero creator Harmonix.

Dubbed "Phase," the game lets users pick tracks from their music library, which are then converted into game sequences where players must match button presses and clickwheel motions to on-screen notes.

Scrolling backgrounds include alien, urban and underwater settings. Two play modes are available: Quick Spin takes users through a single song, while Marathon strings together multiple songs, with increasingly difficult notation.



Phase is a $5 download from the iTunes Store and is only compatible with iPod classics, third-generation Nanos, and fifth-generation iPods.

Eisner says blame Steve

In his keynote speech on Wednesday morning at the Media and Money conference hosted by Dow Jones and Nielsen, former Disney chief executive Michael Eisner called the ongoing Writer's Guild of America strike "stupid." He said the organization is lobbying for a bigger cut of the profits from digital distribution which he claims simply aren't there.

Eisner called the situation for "Web video" similar, in that the medium has yet to prove lucrative. However, he placed part of the blame on studios and networks for allowing themselves to be strong-armed by Apple and its chief executive.

The studios "make deals with Steve Jobs, who takes them to the cleaners," he said. "They make all these kinds of things, and who's making money? Apple! They should get a piece of Apple. If I was a union, I'd be striking up wherever he is."
post #2 of 36
Ahh yes. The former Chairman/CEO that nearly buried Disney. Meanwhile, PIXAR accepts a merger offer from Disney that never would have happened with him on the job.

Disney has begun to shed it's shoddy reputation since his departure.
post #3 of 36
Another jealous wanna-be (Eisner).
post #4 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

He said the organization is lobbying for a bigger cut of the profits from digital distribution which he claims simply aren't there.

So what's the problem then, if it's not a lucrative field and it doesn't generate lots of profit? Oh wait, it will in the future, and those silly writers are trying to ensure their future cut by signing deals now, before they can be laughed at by companies on their way to the bank.

What's his point - that these new channels will never make money? Why not just drop the whole idea then? And if they will make money, how is it "stupid" for the Guild to want a cut of it?
post #5 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Phase for iPod
Dubbed "Phase," the game lets users pick tracks from their music library, which are then converted into game sequences where players must match button presses and clickwheel motions to on-screen notes.

Hmmm. So if I buy a song for $0.99, I have the right to play it on my iPhone, but I have to spend another $0.99 to use it on the same iPhone as a ringtone.

However, I don't have to pay $0.99 extra to use multiple songs in the Phase Game. Sounds like a hole in the supposed licensing issue required for ringtones, eh?

Jim
post #6 of 36
As far as I'm concerned, Eisner is just a big greedy baby that has a smaller slice of pie. He wishes he was Jobs. I mean, if memory serves me right, doesn't Steve own more Disney shares than Eisner and the Disney family put together.

BTW, this is my first post on my first ever Mac (20" Imac), and I gotta say...I'm loving it. So long Windoze; I'm not looking back
post #7 of 36
[
What do you expect from someone who gives themself a User ID of borg_drone. If one were to break it down, "drone" one of it's definitions equates to 'loafer', and "borg" Star Trek TNG race that assimilates other's originality to the collective with a catch phrase "Resistance is Futile".

So a loafer that lives off the collective of others or welfare state, ergo someone that does not have a lot to offer.

Or a long winded way of agreeing with bcharna's post "It seems like you have a lot to contribute to these forums".

To pomo - Congrats on your first Mac and welcome to the Mac community.

Finally regarding the article... I think "former Disney chief" says all I need to know regarding judging whether his keynote comments have any real value to me!

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #8 of 36
Congrats pomo!
I did the same thing 5 years ago.....bought a powerbook and an imac.....wish I just bought the powerbook, and took that $1200 I spent on this imac i'm still using and bought apple stock that day when it was $4.00 a share.....oh well....I love my old imac....

I second the motion to delete the objectionable comment already posted....it is hateful and sadly wrong. When will we ever learn?

Frank D.
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose....
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He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose....
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post #9 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Ahh yes. The former Chairman/CEO that nearly buried Disney. Meanwhile, PIXAR accepts a merger offer from Disney that never would have happened with him on the job.

Disney has begun to shed it's shoddy reputation since his departure.

Yeah, it's really stupid. I hear that the accounting books at media companies are more cooked than anything that has Rachel Ray's name on it.

Per-episode or per-season, the networks and studios should be making a lot more money than they would with DVDs.

You can hit the red "!" button on the lower left corner of the offending post. I'm not sure if it does anything though, because the 2006 predictions thread still isn't locked, spammy posts stay and it is still being hit by link spammers.
post #10 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevenmrgan View Post

So what's the problem then, if it's not a lucrative field and it doesn't generate lots of profit? Oh wait, it will in the future, and those silly writers are trying to ensure their future cut by signing deals now, before they can be laughed at by companies on their way to the bank.

What's his point - that these new channels will never make money? Why not just drop the whole idea then? And if they will make money, how is it "stupid" for the Guild to want a cut of it?

The contract doesn't currently include digital content distribution and you're exactly spot on. They know the growth is solely in this area, thanks in large part to companies like Apple for making a vehicle to do so.

Amazing how a company that doesn't develop the devices nor the transportation system wants device creators to cut them in on their products.

Apple has shown that this model can be created and highly successful if it drives mainly the sale of hardware and a modest fee for digital content.

For some silly reason the media companies have some strange idea that digital streams are equivalent to CD/DVD.

They aren't.

But as they increase the quality of content they don't want a portion of that increased price for HD to go to the writers who without them or Apple they don't exist.

In reality, they might be dreading that Apple, Microsoft and others just want to remove them and work directly with the artists. If so, they'd better treat the artists with more respect, including increased monetary riches.
post #11 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

What do you expect from someone who gives themself a User ID of borg_drone. If one were to break it down, "drone" one of it's definitions equates to 'loafer', and "borg" Star Trek TNG race that assimilates other's originality to the collective with a catch phrase "Resistance is Futile".

What? The ordinary workers in the Borg collective are called drones, much like the usage for some of the insects in ant colonies and bee hives. As distasteful as borg_drone was here, it's reaching to use any other meaning.
post #12 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

What? The ordinary workers in the Borg collective are called drones, much like the usage for some of the insects in ant colonies and bee hives. As distasteful as borg_drone was here, it's reaching to use any other meaning.

Considering the Borg identity was a collective of all sentient life driven to be a fusion of AI/machine and flesh.

Nothing about which race you come from ever was a question to the Borg. They saw the incompleteness of all as a bug and thus needed to be fixed by adding all these emotions, thoughts and experiences to their collective conscience.
post #13 of 36
I think Jobs had a big part in ousting Eisner from Disney (they pretty much hated each other). Eisner had run Disney into the ground, basically. Then Pixar said it wouldn't renew its distribution contract with Disney, because Disney wouldn't pay what Pixar movies were worth. That was a factor (among others) that led to Eisner being booted. As soon as Eisner left, Pixar made the new Disney deal.

In other words, Eisner failed in his negotiations with Jobs, and he's still bitter. So now he's advising other studio CEOs to be tougher in negotiations with Apple. If they listen to Eisner, they'll be booted also (though with huge golden parachutes, I'm sure).
post #14 of 36
We all know the comment was basically anti something.
We're all smarter, don't keep dignifying such posts with any kind of response. It lowers us to that level.
I did however enjoy some of the posts regarding borg activity...

It is so simple. If studios both music and movie continue to marginalise the Apple model (and similar models - although I'm sure Bill and Steve B will come up with a pricing structure based on losing money to get the studios on their side) then the "consumer" will return to the days of bittorrents and file sharing where no one wins except the ISPs in data transfer charges.

Studios will continue to go after grandmas and grandpas as show trials but the people who used to gather content illegally will return to doing so.

Sure Apple are making millions from the sale of iPods, but iPods can still be filled with content legally purchased on second hand CDs and DVDs.

Someone please correct me, but I believe I have read that it is a minority of songs and tv shows on iPods that have come from the iTunes store compared to the amount of songs on shop bought CDs

Make the user experience complicated and people will abandon it. Make it too expensive and people will abandon it.

It is soooo simple yet even the highly paid studio executives can't see the forest for the money they believe they could make if they charged the same amount of money for both digital download and hard copy (discs with covers booklets freight storage space printing costs)

"We'll tell'em we're giving 'em the hard bits for free. The value's in the content! HA HA HA HA"

That's the future I see if the studios take control of the download space
post #15 of 36
No profits form digital distribution? BullShi**!! There are no DVD's to press, no boxes print, no artists to pay... if anything there should be even more profit.

These execs are brainwashing us to think that because there's no physical media, there's less entertainment.
post #16 of 36
Ironically, it was Jobs' Pixar that made Disney relevant again.
post #17 of 36
I'm a long time reader of AI but this is my first post.
I was moved to register because I felt I needed to respond to this post and Borg's post.
One of the things I enjoy most about AI are the article comments. People are great about staying on topic and there is very little spam. I'm here to read about Apple, technology, and the Mac, that's it.

These posts, however, are off-topic and have no place in civilized discussion. Frankly, I'm surprised the mods haven't moved faster to remedy the situation.

Oh, and Wayland, a quick note about freedom of speech. Freedom of speech exists to protect us from GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP. Voluntary communities and organizations may censor their members as they please. Indeed, it would be an affront to liberty not only for government to impose limits on the freedom of speech within voluntary organizations, but also for government to COMPEL private speech. I'm sure most of the posters here are smart enough to know this intuitively, but I'm not so sure about Wayland.
post #18 of 36
Eisner is shopping for a new job and trying to play the current "Studios hate Apple" game.

And Admins... please, keep this forum free from youtube style posts.
post #19 of 36
"He said the organization is lobbying for a bigger cut of the profits from digital distribution which he claims simply aren't there".

Give us a break! The profits are huge because they are selling somethjing that does not exist physically (no need to manufacture anything!), can be duplicated to the infinite at no cost and can be distributed and sold at virtually no cost using the P2P networks.

Do they want to boost sales thusands of times wordwide and stop piracy overnight? It is plain easy: just sell any original downloadable CD, DVD or Blu-ray for $1. BUT THESE GREEDY DONOSAURS WILL NEVER GET IT. Poor things, moving to extinction!
post #20 of 36
Is Eisner from a long line of idiots? didn't know that.
So if I call him a big giant COCK, an idiot, a stupid STUPID waste of time and effort.

does that make me rather witty?

YUP

because he is a complete tool.
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
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post #21 of 36
Right, the former head of Disney is going to tell us all about being greedy.

There is an overly-deep layer of middle-men between creators and buyers.

Digital downloading eliminates manufacturing and distribution from the equation as well as the fan-dance of shuffling associated costs and people like Eisner struggle now to justify much of their existence.

Apple's simple pricing structure just makes their pain more acute.

Screw them, I say.


mafiaa.org/
post #22 of 36
Eagerly waiting for 10411.... Kudos to AAPL for being able to provide us bug free systems and so innovative toys !!!

Regarding the racist/religion wars you are ALL so 20 century are you not ?

Stop these idiotics rants wether you feel pro or against the incrimined post.

Face the reality of today / Apple is the new religion and Steve is our Lord - and wether you want it or not we are all members of the new sect, and we all wishes to pay whatever they will ask us to follow the cult.
MacBook Black 2.2 Ghz Nov 2007 MacBook Black 2 Ghz Oct 2006 PowerMacintosh G4 450 Dual Atto UL3D 3 Cheetah 10 000 rpm Power Macintosh G4 450 Dual Osx 10.5 Server - Motu V4HD - JVC DT24 L3D...
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post #23 of 36
No figures on the TV shows and movies yet, but on iTunes it's fairly well established that of the .99, the labels get .70 or so. The rest goes to the credit cards, with a small percentage to Apple as a profit. Of course, Apple gets to sell iPods, which is the point of the operation for Apple.

Of course, you have to measure that against the expense for the labels. Now, for a CD, they spend money for manufacture, maybe 60 cents. Then the packaging, maybe a dollar. Then money for transportation to the thousands of locations around the country. Then the promotion and so on. Then, compared to that, they release the file to Apple. Effective costs: a couple of pennies. Then, per song, they get 70 cents. (In the music business, at least some of that goes to the artist, but in the video business, the entire studio's share goes straight to the studio. For the writers, and so on? Nothing.)

Of course, NBC Universal wants to break with Apple. So what do they do? Open up a deal with Amazon. Apple takes too much, they say. So how do they compete? They go DRM-free, 256 kbps mp3, and they sell most tracks for ten cents LESS. Brilliant! Why soon, they will be offering more high-quality content for the iPod even cheaper! Oh, Apple is bleeding!!! Don't throw Apple in that briar patch!

What idiots. What they don't seem to realize is, there will be no DRM in a year, and the going rate per track will be about 25 cents. Apple HAS been holding the price UP, not down.

When the music business finally gets it through their thick skulls that they're competing not against Apple, but against all the free sources of music. The way to do that is to supply high quality at low prices. Then sales will rise by unit, and piracy will be close to disappearing.

The first music act that quits their label and sells their music that way on the net will get very rich. You've seen political campaigns raise huge amounts from the net, right? Why should it be any different in music?
post #24 of 36
This is in reference to borg_drone add Wayland

part of the freedom of speech is the freedom to not speak. I would appreciate it if both of these posters would exercise that freedom.

As for Eisner's comments -- if the online system isn't profitable, then simply offer a profit-sharing deal to writers -- for ever $ made, X amount is paid.... I wonder why the studios aren't offering that....

couldn't be due to a lack of willingness to share profit, could it -- there is no profit!

first time post and, sad as I am that it was out of outrage, I'm glad to be here.
post #25 of 36
I gather that you are not fully knowledgeable of Canada's Constitution.

For your information, their is a significant constitutional difference in rights between Canada and US re freedom of speech.

In the U.S., a person cannot legally yell "fire" in a crowded movie theatre. But are free to say just about anything else without danger of criminal prosecution.

Whereas in Canada, Freedom of Expression is provided as long as you respect the rights of others which is guaranteed by the Charter of Rights.

Your comments and support of such diatribe is equally inflammatory and irresponsible.

Shame on you, and your right to call yourself a Canadian.
post #26 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

I gather that you are not fully knowledgeable of Canada's Constitution.

For your information, their is a significant constitutional difference in rights between Canada and US re freedom of speech.

In the U.S., a person cannot legally yell "fire" in a crowded movie theatre. But are free to say just about anything else without danger of criminal prosecution.

Also, In the US doesn't require private establishments to allow free speech. If a person doesn like the rules at one site, they can go to another site with different rules, or even start their own.
post #27 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Shame on you, and your right to call yourself a Canadian.

The lack of free speech in Canada can be both a good and bad thing (I am Canadian and lived there for 25 years) - they get to shut down the Neo Nazi people, but they also do stupid stuff with it (like the government banning the movie "Heavy Metal" until the 90s or so).

All in all, I think it is better to put up with the crap and have a government powerless to enforce moral codes, because enforcement of moral codes is the root of all government evil.

[ob on topic] Eisner is an ass, that raped Disney shareholders for $1billion or so while he ran the company - the shareholders would have been better off in an index fund. Jobs is a way better CEO, as you can see by stock price performance since he came back.
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post #28 of 36
Quote:
These posts, however, are off-topic and have no place in civilized discussion. Frankly, I'm surprised the mods haven't moved faster to remedy the situation.

The main reason that deleting this stuff takes longer is that all of you people QUOTE the offending text. Six people quoted the remark just to say that it should be deleted, so I have to edit that out of all six of your posts. If you want me to quickly take out the trash, please leave it all in one place.

Oh, but thanks for flagging this objectionable content. We can't read every post in the whole site, so we are grateful for those who hit the red button.
--Johnny
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post #29 of 36
Any contracts requires at least 2 parties to agree. If the studios signed a deal that makes Apple rich while they get little or nothing, then shame on them.....somehow I don't think that was the case. Clearly the studios felt that whatever percentage they got of that heretofore nonexistent revenue was better then 100% of nothing.

They will all have the choice to renew or try to make it on there own, a la NBC. Something tells me, that while there will be lots of renegotiation, very few will try to go an alternative route.
post #30 of 36
Kudos to elroth and Swift for their eloquently insightful comments.

Screenwriters who are clever enough to write entertaining stories that are successful with intelligent audiences appear to also be clever enough to realize that the old business model for entertainment production and distribution is changing in ways that can better reward the production side of the business.

For decades (thanks, in large part, to operations like Disney’s Buena Vista) it was the distribution part of the movie business that made the most money. The costs of running theaters and television networks, or the costs of manufacturing and distributing video tapes or DVDs, helped to make the high cost of entertainment acceptable to the public. There is still a cost to digital distribution, and it’s not insignificant. (Those of you in the audience who are sysadmins have probably stopped to ponder just how much IT infrastructure it takes to distribute the volume of media that the iTunes Store has sold. I assume it’s massive.) Even so, digital distribution is far more efficient and carries a lower overhead, especially for lower-quality renderings. So the well-informed public is not as willing to pay as high a price for distribution as they used to be. (I believe this would be true even if there weren't the problem of unauthorized copying.)

What the public IS willing to pay for, though, (as Walt Disney himself preached [1]) is a good story. “300,” “Lord of the Rings,” “Harry Potter and the Whatever” -- all are fascinating stories that have been hugely successful as movies. The money to pay for them has, in the past, come more from the distribution side of the business than from the direct sale of the rights for the production itself. As distribution becomes simpler and less costly, people will pay less for it, and productions will have to gain revenue from a reformed accounting system that more directly rewards the production process. It is well known that Hollywood has developed a Byzantine system of accounting that shifts expenses all over the place in a way that minimizes net income and thereby minimizes payments to share-interest participants (which often includes scriptwriters) and investors. Digital distribution is forcing that to change; Eisner and those who think like him apparently are wishing on a star that it wouldn’t.

[1] - WALT DISNEY: AN AMERICAN ORIGINAL by Bob Thomas
post #31 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

These execs are brainwashing us to think that because there's no physical media, there's less entertainment.

That and they want to charge more for it.
post #32 of 36
Eisner's whole argument is comical.

He insists they are making nothing on online content. If that were the case he'd have no objection to giving a percent to the writers, since a percent of nothing is nothing.

The fact that they're unwilling to give up a cut shows that it is either making money, or they think it will sooner or later.
post #33 of 36
That settles it, Eisner is pure scum.

There is valid criticism he could level against apple and/or screen writers. However, his commentary simply makes no sense.
post #34 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Eisner's whole argument is comical.

He insists they are making nothing on online content. If that were the case he'd have no objection to giving a percent to the writers, since a percent of nothing is nothing.

The fact that they're unwilling to give up a cut shows that it is either making money, or they think it will sooner or later.

I think the fact that they claim no money is being made online *now* is specious as well. Unlike his current little experiment, for the studios, it's an additional market that they've gotten into that should take them almost no money to exploit. Even if iTunes takes away from their broadcast revenue because it loses some of the audience that would rather pay than get ads, they should be making more than twice as much per download than they are getting if that person watched the show over the air. And it wouldn't involve spending so much on marketing either.
post #35 of 36
As a few prior posters have pointed out, this speech was merely a job-search effort by the ousted and discredited Eisner. It's been widely reported, and I assume the only point in that is so that people can pour more scorn and opprobrium on him, he certainly deserves all that he gets.

Last time I checked, Hollywood was making a bundle out of digital distribution via DVDs, even though they've been cracked up the wazoo for years. So how can they be losing with iTunes when a season of a show costs more than the DVD boxset? Could it be something to do with the real creators no longer being prepared to be ripped-off by the studios? Guess what the writers' strike is all about.

Eisner represents the spirit of studio corruption that drives piracy. When Radiohead can offer their album for free and still gain twice the amount per sale that they would if they went through the System, that sends a message across the world that the notion of piracy depriving artists is a lie.
post #36 of 36
Esiner? who really cares.

I want my OS X 10.4.11!

When is it gonna get here steve?
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