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Apple talking to China Mobile; Adobe chief resigns; Apple in Japan

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 
Apple is chatting with China's largest mobile carrier about a deal to bring iPhone to the country sometime next year. Meanwhile, Adobe chief executive Bruce Chizen will step down at the end of this month. And Apple during the month of October was treated to some welcomed news out of Japan.

iPhone for China

China Mobile, China's largest cell-phone carrier, is in talks with Apple about bringing the iPhone to China, but no agreement has been reached yet, the telecom's chief executive said Tuesday.

The companies still need to iron out their differences over revenue sharing, Wang Jianzhou told reporters on the sidelines of the GSMA Mobile Asia Congress in the Chinese territory of Macau.

Apple has said it plans to launch iPhone in Asia in 2008 and is in talks with various operators in the region.

Chizen steps down

Adobe said Monday that its Board of Directors has appointed current president and chief operating officer Shantanu Narayen as its president and chief executive officer, effective December 1, 2007. Narayen will also join Adobe’s Board of Directors at that time.

Narayen replaces Adobe chief executive Bruce Chizen, who will serve the remainder of his term on Adobe’s Board of Directors through the Spring of 2008 and continue in a strategic advisory capacity through the end of fiscal year 2008.

“Bruce Chizen’s vision has helped transform Adobe from a company that was known mainly for its popular design products into one of the largest and most diversified software companies in the world,” said Chuck Geschke and John Warnock, Adobe’s chairmen of the Board of Directors, in the press release. “We thank him for his outstanding leadership and contributions to Adobe’s success during his entire 14 years at Adobe and the past seven as CEO.”

Sales of Mac OS X surge in Japan

Microsoft's has taken a bruising in the Japanese marketplace just as Apple's Mac OS X Leopard was released, according to a new report by the country's Business Computer News translated by Electronista.

It notes that while sales of Mac OS X increased dramatically between September and October, climbing from a rate of 15.5 percent year-over-year to 60.5 percent, Microsoft suffered from the reverse effect. Sales growth of Windows plummeted from 75.3 percent to 28.7 percent. The sudden switch provided Apple with about 53.9 percent of the total OS-only marketshare in Japan during October -- a breakthrough for the company, BCN says.

Although the results are expected to cool in the wake of Leopard's release, the report notes that the sharp increase is more than 10 points stronger than the growth in Mac OS X sales triggered by the release of Tiger in April 2005.

Japan has frequently been cited as one of the most difficult markets to breach in the world today, with a rapid decline in overall computer sales forcing Hitachi out of the market entirely and numerous other PC vendors turning to alternate computer designs such as Sharp's Internet AQUOS.
post #2 of 34
Unfortunately, China Mobile caters to a vast consumer base which does not have the resources to buy such an expensive phone. Probably in the higher end of the population, those people would reasonably be able to afford it, but the vast, vast majority would not. I could see an open, cheaper platform being viable there. As it is now, most handsets are Asia-local designed and manufactured, with a tilt towards the ultra-cheap basic phones, with web browsing.

Another way to put this is to look at iPod sales in China versus generic MP3. Extrapolate to the iPhone. iPod sales are close to 1%, if not lower, of global sales for Apple, despite China having a population which is over 1.3 billion people.
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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post #3 of 34
Curious to know why Chizen stepped down. Is there a story behind the story?
post #4 of 34
Curious to know why every other country in the entire world is getting the iPhone while Canada does not. Chizen probably stepped down in disgust.
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Good for <del>wiki</del>OpenLeaks
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post #5 of 34
Actually, $399 (about 2965 Chinese yuan) are not high price in Chinese cellphone market. Most young working class in China can easily afford it at this price range. Lots of teenagers in China change their cellphone every year. A new Nokia cellphone can easily cost about 4000 Chinese Yuan in China, and they sell like hot cake.
post #6 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Unfortunately, China Mobile caters to a vast consumer base which does not have the resources to buy such an expensive phone. Probably in the higher end of the population, those people would reasonably be able to afford it, but the vast, vast majority would not. I could see an open, cheaper platform being viable there. As it is now, most handsets are Asia-local designed and manufactured, with a tilt towards the ultra-cheap basic phones, with web browsing.

Another way to put this is to look at iPod sales in China versus generic MP3. Extrapolate to the iPhone. iPod sales are close to 1%, if not lower, of global sales for Apple, despite China having a population which is over 1.3 billion people.

China has over 150 million people in the middle class. That is larger than the entire population Of Russia. While it's true that China's middle class is , on average, not as wealthy as that in Europe, and much less wealthy as that in the USA, it's still able to spend on items such as smartphones, and digital music players. Those sales have been increasing a a high rate, from about nothing two years ago. But, phones are desired more by the chinese than music players are.

If the iPhone comes out in China, it will, at once, become an object of desire for a very large number of people. Good sales would be assured.
post #7 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Curious to know why Chizen stepped down. Is there a story behind the story?

No. He's been talking about this for some time. Adobe is doing better than ever.
post #8 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by waytogobuddy View Post

Curious to know why every other country in the entire world is getting the iPhone while Canada does not. Chizen probably stepped down in disgust.

Canada is screwed up.

Chizen never liked being a CEO. He was almost forced into the post. Adobe is doing great.
post #9 of 34
Wow, so basically HALF of Japan now runs Mac OS X? Did I read it right?
post #10 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck View Post

Wow, so basically HALF of Japan now runs Mac OS X? Did I read it right?

No, and no.
post #11 of 34
And guess which country will not be initiating lawsuits about lock-in.
post #12 of 34
Quote:
Wow, so basically HALF of Japan now runs Mac OS X? Did I read it right?

I think they must be talking about sales of the OS separate from any computer. Mostly upgrades? I have to imagine that there is still a huge advantage to MS installed base relative to OS X. It is a promising trend though, and the rumored micro notebook (and hopefully SOMEDAY iPhone) should help it to continue.
post #13 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

And guess which country will not be initiating lawsuits about lock-in.

Nah... But we'd still figure out how to sue somebody because certain phones are GSM-exclusive and certain networks are CDMA.
post #14 of 34
Oh sorry. That's "sales growth". Well, that's a smallish growth then. I'd expect the healthy gains to be around 200% (that is, when the sales increase twofold)
post #15 of 34
As soon as the iPhone hits the Chinese market, you can bet that copycats will have their own iPhone-like knockoffs available there. China only pays lip service to enforcing copyrights and patents from other countries. They will take the iPhone apart, figure out the multitouch technology and other Apple patented stuff, implement them in their phones and dare Apple to try and block them in Chinese courts.
post #16 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtamesis View Post

As soon as the iPhone hits the Chinese market, you can bet that copycats will have their own iPhone-like knockoffs available there. China only pays lip service to enforcing copyrights and patents from other countries. They will take the iPhone apart, figure out the multitouch technology and other Apple patented stuff, implement them in their phones and dare Apple to try and block them in Chinese courts.

They already have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_8wuVEYMZ8
post #17 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Sales of Mac OS X surge in Japan

Microsoft's has taken a bruising in the Japanese marketplace just as Apple's Mac OS X Leopard was released, according to a new report by the country's Business Computer News translated by Electronista.

It notes that while sales of Mac OS X increased dramatically between September and October, climbing from a rate of 15.5 percent year-over-year to 60.5 percent, Microsoft suffered from the reverse effect. Sales growth of Windows plummeted from 75.3 percent to 28.7 percent. The sudden switch provided Apple with about 53.9 percent of the total OS-only marketshare in Japan during October -- a breakthrough for the company, BCN says.

Although the results are expected to cool in the wake of Leopard's release, the report notes that the sharp increase is more than 10 points stronger than the growth in Mac OS X sales triggered by the release of Tiger in April 2005.

Japan has frequently been cited as one of the most difficult markets to breach in the world today, with a rapid decline in overall computer sales forcing Hitachi out of the market entirely and numerous other PC vendors turning to alternate computer designs such as Sharp's Internet AQUOS.

Apple's problem in Japan is not it's OS sales - it's computing hardware. The lack of a truly portable laptop in a nation relies mainly on public transportation is pathetic. Japan is the 2nd or 3rd largest consumer market in the world, and the fact that only Windoze laptop makers produce laptops under 4lbs (many 3lb or less) really hamstrings Apple. This has been a problem even in the days of the 4lb 12" G4 PB, because its performance lagged far behind it's Wintel counterparts. The situation was made worse when Apple switched its portables to Intel chips, with no product weights at 5lbs or more.
post #18 of 34
It's not Apple's fault that there is no iPhone up in Canada yet. You should be whining to Rogers Wireless. The way they have structured their data plans it would cost you $210/month to get the same service you get in the US. That's what Apple has been fighting with them about. If they want to carry it (and they are the only company up there capable of carrying it), then they need to get in line with more reasonable rates.

I have heard rumour though that it is supposed to be available in January or February. I have no idea what price they have agreed to though. But knowing Rogers... get out your wallets.
post #19 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calyptus View Post

It's not Apple's fault that there is no iPhone up in Canada yet. You should be whining to Rogers Wireless. The way they have structured their data plans it would cost you $210/month to get the same service you get in the US. That's what Apple has been fighting with them about. If they want to carry it (and they are the only company up there capable of carrying it), then they need to get in line with more reasonable rates.

I have heard rumour though that it is supposed to be available in January or February. I have no idea what price they have agreed to though. But knowing Rogers... get out your wallets.

You're right. The story I've heard is that the blame lies squarely with Rogers.
post #20 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by waytogobuddy View Post

Curious to know why every other country in the entire world is getting the iPhone while Canada does not. Chizen probably stepped down in disgust.

HAHAHA!!!

Thanks for making me laugh!

Cheers!
2.0 GHz Macbook, 2 GB RAM, 250 GB HD
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2.0 GHz Macbook, 2 GB RAM, 250 GB HD
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post #21 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calyptus View Post

It's not Apple's fault that there is no iPhone up in Canada yet. You should be whining to Rogers Wireless. The way they have structured their data plans it would cost you $210/month to get the same service you get in the US. That's what Apple has been fighting with them about. If they want to carry it (and they are the only company up there capable of carrying it), then they need to get in line with more reasonable rates.

I have heard rumour though that it is supposed to be available in January or February. I have no idea what price they have agreed to though. But knowing Rogers... get out your wallets.

The federal government is supposed to be auctioning off more wireless spectrum next year, and the talk is that there will be some new companies in the market. Maybe Apple is waiting to see if they can cut a better deal with a new wireless company next year. Or at least holding out with that threat to Rogers. There has only been one company offering GSM in Canada since Rogers bought out Fido. It would be great to see a new competitor, and you can bet we will get better prices if there is one.
post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtamesis View Post

As soon as the iPhone hits the Chinese market, you can bet that copycats will have their own iPhone-like knockoffs available there. China only pays lip service to enforcing copyrights and patents from other countries. They will take the iPhone apart, figure out the multitouch technology and other Apple patented stuff, implement them in their phones and dare Apple to try and block them in Chinese courts.

Supposedly, there have been knockoffs from maybe February. Meizu has a Windows Mobile-based iPhone knock-off/homage/whatever, and it was featured on Popular Science's front cover several months ago as an "iClone" article. At least Meizu's offering is its own design and it's not really a copy and doesn't use Apple's logo, naming or really styling or design cues. There have been several phones around that are in the same general shape before iPhone was announced.
post #23 of 34
With the newly affluent Chinese population literally exploding across China, the iPhone should do really well as a fashion phone.

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #24 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yash Keough View Post

Man what about the iPhone in Canada though? Seriously what the hell Apple? We live right next to you and yet it's countries half way across the freaking world that are getting it instead! lameee Seriously Apple and Rogers, get your act together! This blows.

If Canada elects Bush for its President you will get an iPhone, otherwise, as they say in Southpark "Blame Canada".
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post #25 of 34
To those who think people in China cannot afford the iPhone, they are totally out of touch with the world. China is already the world's second largest market for computers/laptops, and cars. If they can afford a car, then they can afford the iPhone. They certainly have enough money in China to drive the Chinese stock market to high levels. If they have the money to invest in stocks, they can certainly afford a few hundreds bucks for an iPhone.
post #26 of 34
Let's put things into perspective here .... most of China simply can't afford anything luxury, let alone an iPhone .... but that doesn't mean luxury goods - like the iPhone - can't do ridiculsouly well. Current estimates put the middle - upper classes at around 190 million folks. That, and radically changing spending habits by China's youth (as opposed to older generations who traditionally keep a 30% savings rate) will mean great things for Apple and other luxury handset makers.

I'm curious about the Taiwanese market, which, unlike mainland China is entirely GSM (China like North America has both CDMA and GSM). Competition is fierce, data rates fairly reasonable ... but still data use is significantly less than Japan / South Korea. Perhaps the iPhone will change that.

iPod Touches selling well over here (Taipei) ... seems like a fairly good indication they want an iPhone !

As for Canada, why the rush ? Buy an unlocked one if you simply must, otherwise Canuckisantis like myself can look forward to the iPhone 2 being released by the time of the Canada roll out. 3G hasn't even rolled out in two out of the three largest metro areas (but will soon enough) ... and I think it's fair to say these devices will truly come into their own with ubitiquous, high speed bandwidth.

Maybe we can get some GSM competition in too to boot ! The Rogers / Fido monopoly guarantees crappy service, can't understand why that merger was ever allowed (all of the carriers had "unlimited" data plans before Roger's bought out Fido a couple of years ago).
post #27 of 34
I should also add that Taipei has a pretty decent municipal wifi service - it's not free, but fairly cheap and convienent (you can buy a re-charge card good for 100 minutes for under $3USD at any 7-11 for example). Ideal for Touches and iPhone use.
post #28 of 34
Hong Kong would be another very good market for the iPhone. Many people there have more than one cellphone. They like to buy a new phone every few months.
post #29 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236 View Post

If they can afford a car, then they can afford the iPhone. They certainly have enough money in China to drive the Chinese stock market to high levels. If they have the money to invest in stocks, they can certainly afford a few hundreds bucks for an iPhone.

I would have to disagree here. The land development strategy of the Chinese government has largely been based on limited access highways, much like our Interstate system. Because of this, cars have become much of a necessity in China. Also, just because someone has bought a house does not mean that they can afford an iPhone. This logic is dangerous and very flawed. It will be interesting to see how well the iPhone sells in China. I don't think its going to tank, but I feel that the numbers will be far from impressive.

Also, have you heard of investing in foreign markets? haha... all the money in the Chinese stock market is not from China.
post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyteProsector View Post

I would have to disagree here. The land development strategy of the Chinese government has largely been based on limited access highways, much like our Interstate system. Because of this, cars have become much of a necessity in China. Also, just because someone has bought a house does not mean that they can afford an iPhone. This logic is dangerous and very flawed. It will be interesting to see how well the iPhone sells in China. I don't think its going to tank, but I feel that the numbers will be far from impressive.

Also, have you heard of investing in foreign markets? haha... all the money in the Chinese stock market is not from China.

I think you have to check your knowledge of China. First, you said people who bought a house or a car, cannot afford the iPhone. This is the most ridiculous comment you will see anywhere. Second, the Chinese stock market in Shanghai is not available to most foreign investors. Only those Chinese stocks listed in Hong Kong are available to foreigners. In fact, the Chinese government has been raising bank interest rates to reduce excess amount of liquidity and cool down the stock market.
post #31 of 34
I would be very jealous if China gets it because I'm in Japan.

post #32 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyteProsector View Post

I would have to disagree here. The land development strategy of the Chinese government has largely been based on limited access highways, much like our Interstate system. Because of this, cars have become much of a necessity in China. Also, just because someone has bought a house does not mean that they can afford an iPhone. This logic is dangerous and very flawed. It will be interesting to see how well the iPhone sells in China. I don't think its going to tank, but I feel that the numbers will be far from impressive.

Also, have you heard of investing in foreign markets? haha... all the money in the Chinese stock market is not from China.

You should learn a bit before you make statements like that.

Read this article, particularly to bottom paragraph.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/...partner=alerts
post #33 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

No, and no.

If Apple only allows Mac os X to run on a mac, then wouldn't that represent a similar boost in their mac sales?
post #34 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericblr View Post

If Apple only allows Mac os X to run on a mac, then wouldn't that represent a similar boost in their mac sales?

No. It only means that no one is buying Vista. 50+% of very little, is still little.

Apple has a small marketshare in Japan. What the sales mean is that those who do have a Mac are willing to shell out for the new OS.
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