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When will there be a new iPhone?? - Page 5

post #161 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaEsperanza View Post

I'd love a great camera, but let me ask you this: if the iPhone was to be updated no matter what, would you rather?

1) A great camera

2) GPS

3) More memory

4) Lower price with same specs and development dollars spent on features like copy/paste and flash

5) Same price, new form

Out of your five options, LaEsperanza, my choice would be #4 - copy/paste, not so much Flash. While I can code Flash I'm looking forward to what Apple has in store for us with the iPhone SDK. They also won't have to lower the price for me, as I always decide what I want first, the price is usually an afterthought. Of all the five, #4 seems to be software based, so Apple could add them in the current iPhone.

To me the features on a cell phone are just for times when I'm away from other devices. If I really want to record an event I'll use my digicam. If I really want to know where I am or how to get somewhere, I'll simply ask someone. If I really want to carry more than 4GB around I'll use DVDs or an external hard drive. If I really need copy/paste for a specific project I'll do it on a desk computer. The iPhone is what I use when away from my digicam, DVDs, an external hard drive, and my desktop.

I hope that answers your question, LaEsperanza. Overall I'm impressed with the iPhone and would have paid $1,000 for it. As a bonus, Apple priced it lower than that. Steve might convince me to buy another one - depending on what the new iPhone does.
post #162 of 230
Quote:
1) A great camera

Good explanation of why increasing the megapixel count of compact digital cameras actually makes image quality worse, because it increases the noise.



As shown here: the increase of details with more pixels and the increase of errors if the pixels become too small. The result is a decrease in sensitivity of the camera and an increase in noise because the amount of light collected by a single pixel is smaller. At the same time, increasing the number of pixels is supposed to lead to more details (resolution), but in order to achieve that better lenses with high resolution and a lower lateral chromatic abberation are needed. However better lenses are bigger and don’t fulfill the requirements for ’small’ cameras any more.
post #163 of 230
Your post is a little difficult to follow by just reading your post. Are you saying that you want a 6MP camera in the iPhone? The article was very clear about how many MP a "good" sensor should be and I completely disagree. They said that the 1D should be 37MP and that the SD30 should be no more than 2.7MP. I have owned each (a mk2 for the 1D) and found that the noise was NEVER that bad at an ISO of 400 in a clear, daylight picture. Are you hoping that they put a sensor the size of the one in the Canon G7 into an iPhone?

I guess that I'm just confused why you would say you want a better camera, then cite an article that says that the iPhone cannot have less than a 1/1.8" sensor if you want it to be a 4MP camera. I don't know if it would physically work out to have such nice electronics and such a large sensor within a tiny space.
post #164 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaEsperanza View Post

Thank you, another person who understands photography. 5mp with horrible glass is like a great QB with horrible receivers. It doesn't matter how good they are if their teammates cannot catch. Just the same, great electronics (for a phone) will not compensate for bad glass.

You dont say? Of course ideally we would like great quality optics and maybe a ccd sensor, multiple aspheric glass elements, decent buffers, instant start, zero shutter lag, OZ, IS,FD and multiple focus zone whilst your at it.

Thing realistically for a mintue. Camera phones lack all those things listed above but including them in a device already as expensive as the iphone will only push the price higher, not to mention the phone would become bulkier. Thats why camera phones will always be behind most digital cameras.
post #165 of 230
It's funny how two people deride a phone-cam for only having two million pixels - and yet consider that same figure to be perfectly adequate for HDTV.

C.
post #166 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by k squared View Post

Who cares about 3.2 or 5 MP. It's the optics that matter.

To an extent, yes, but the iPhone doesn't have competitive optics either.
post #167 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

To an extent, yes, but the iPhone doesn't have competitive optics either.

My Sony Ericsson K750, had a really respectable camera. 2.5 mega-pixels, and could occasionally take a shot good enough to make a print from. But the lens cover meant the phone was really bulky and somewhat fragile.

Personally I use a real camera for "photography". I only want a phone cam for random snaps of wherever I happen to be. The iPhone's miniscule camera and lousy optics manages perfectly respectable polaroid-style images. Is it good enough for an 8x10 print? No way! Is it good enough for "here's Sally photocopying her bottom at the office party", yeah. I think it is.

Photos Taken with iPhone
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=%22t...+iPhone&page=3

C.
post #168 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

Is it good enough for "here's Sally photocopying her bottom at the office party", yeah. I think it is.

Such low aspirations.
post #169 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

OZ, IS,FD

I'll admit my stupidity, what is OZ? Also, why are you including FD (focal distance) into the mix? Every camera has that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

Is it good enough for "here's Sally photocopying her bottom at the office party", yeah. I think it is.

Maybe not "high aspirations," but I will admit that I have never had an opportunity that good with my camera phone. Such a shame.... Maybe if I had, I would be on board with everybody else that wants a 5mp camera.
post #170 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

It's funny how two people deride a phone-cam for only having two million pixels - and yet consider that same figure to be perfectly adequate for HDTV.

That's kind of silly since you're not capturing the HD video.

I would be happy with a better quality, 2MP camera with flash. Something that can capture excellent images in different lighting situations and a faster "shutter speed". More intelligent software that does image stabilization.

Wanting a better 2MP camera is akin to wanting to watch a Blueray disc on your home theater vs. a regular DVD or VHS tape. I want a cleaner, higher quality image.
post #171 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by darngooddesign View Post

That's kind of silly since you're not capturing the HD video.

I would be happy with a better quality, 2MP camera with flash. Something that can capture excellent images in different lighting situations and a faster "shutter speed". More intelligent software that does image stabilization.

Surely what you are looking for is a device called a camera?

I have a horrible feeling that if some people get their way, in five years time, we will be lugging round 'phones with a specification and weight not unlike a RED1. George Lucas will be shooting a movie on it, and people will sit in pubs talking about how good a bluescreen plate they can pull.

For me, if the iPhone's camera could be improved without gaining any weight or thickness I'd be happy. But if I wanted the love-child of a compact camera and an telephone, I'd buy a Viewty.

C.
post #172 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

Surely what you are looking for is a device called a camera?

I have a horrible feeling that if some people get their way, in five years time, we will be lugging round 'phones with a specification and weight not unlike a RED1. George Lucas will be shooting a movie on it, and people will sit in pubs talking about how good a bluescreen plate they can pull.

For me, if the iPhone's camera could be improved without gaining any weight or thickness I'd be happy. But if I wanted the love-child of a compact camera and an telephone, I'd buy a Viewty.

C.

So why is the iPhone not a monstrous device considering it has a better camera than the Razr? Its not particularly thick and the iPhone has a better quality camera and software controlling it. You go right ahead and buy a Viewty; however, I still want an iPhone with a better camera.
post #173 of 230
Good design is all about compromise.

In my mind it would be bad design if the requirements of the camera (secondary function) were to undermine the design of the phone (primary function). For instance by making it 5mm thicker.

Just as it would be bad design if the performance of my car (a vehicle) were undermined by the requirements of the stereo (an entertainment system) .... Of course - Some people actually want a pair of 500Watt subwoofers in their trunk.

Someone once said "For me, if the iPhone's camera could be improved without gaining any weight or thickness I'd be happy"

C.
post #174 of 230
Quote:
Your post is a little difficult to follow by just reading your post. Are you saying that you want a 6MP camera in the iPhone?

No just the basic concept that more MP does not automatically mean a better camera. Other elements than only the sensor also need to improve.

Quote:
It's funny how two people deride a phone-cam for only having two million pixels - and yet consider that same figure to be perfectly adequate for HDTV.

HD works because you are not watching one image. You are watching 50 to 60 images per second. Your eye is tricked into seeing 64,800 lines of resolution in a second.

Quote:
To an extent, yes, but the iPhone doesn't have competitive optics either.

The camera on the iphone isn't trying to be competitive with other cameras.

Quote:
I would be happy with a better quality, 2MP camera with flash. Something that can capture excellent images in different lighting situations and a faster "shutter speed". More intelligent software that does image stabilization.

The only way to do this is to add a camera onto the phone the way the Viewty has.
post #175 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaEsperanza View Post

I'll admit my stupidity, what is OZ? Also, why are you including FD (focal distance) into the mix? Every camera has that...



Maybe not "high aspirations," but I will admit that I have never had an opportunity that good with my camera phone. Such a shame.... Maybe if I had, I would be on board with everybody else that wants a 5mp camera.

Optical zoom. And yes all cameras have focal distance but camera phones are a different story.
post #176 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

Optical zoom. And yes all cameras have focal distance but camera phones are a different story.

How so?
post #177 of 230
I am not sure if anyone has added this to the request list but what would be really nice is some type of LED that blinks when the phone is not in use and you have a ical alarm, sms message, voice message or and email waiting so you did not have to always pickup the phone and check it to make sure you have not missed anything.

just some type of blink light under the glass near the earphone as an example.
post #178 of 230
3G + flash would be welcomed with arms open wide.
post #179 of 230

Yeah there are issues with decreasing the pixel size i conventional CCD detectors. How ever a lot of research is going into over coming the physical restrictions. A couple of months ago Spectra/Photonics ran several articles about research going into advance detectors specifically for the cell phone market. It is not the type of thing that can be reproduced here but if you are interested in what may be the state of the art in a year or two it is worth a read. The goal of course is far better image quality out of extremely small cameras.
Quote:

As shown here: the increase of details with more pixels and the increase of errors if the pixels become too small. The result is a decrease in sensitivity of the camera and an increase in noise because the amount of light collected by a single pixel is smaller.

That pretty much sums it up. The goal of course is to over come those issues.
Quote:

At the same time, increasing the number of pixels is supposed to lead to more details (resolution), but in order to achieve that better lenses with high resolution and a lower lateral chromatic abberation are needed. However better lenses are bigger and dont fulfill the requirements for small cameras any more.

I was always under the impression that the larger the lens the harder it is to achieve perfection. Larger lenses do offer advantages though. One of them being faster F-stops and a wider zoom range. What I'd like to see is a cell phone camera with a folded lens assembly. That is to accommodate the longer focal length with a lens assembly the swivels out of the way.

Done right a swiveling lens/camera assembly would allow for longer lens. More so it could be designed to swivel both ways. One to take pictures as expected and the second to frame the user for conferencing.

Dave
post #180 of 230
I've read with interest part of this thread, especially the remarks directed at "bav".

First thing is that I don't have inside info and frankly am far removed from the people involved in the cell phone industry. Second I don't know bav nor do I know if he is posting based on good info or not.

What I do know is that Apple needs more products to feed the Cell Phone market than the iPhone. If there was ever a place where one size DOES NOT FIT ALL it is the cell business. So I pretty much expect a much cheaper dumb phone at the low end.

Will such a device come out at MWSF, I really don't know. I do know that there are many products in Apples line up that are due for upgrades. If the show is focused on those aging products then the introduction of new cell phones may happen elsewhere.

As far as IPhone 2 goes, I do have the suspicion that it is to early. Thinking is leaning this way due to the likely chip sets not becoming available until later or just becoming available in the new year. The other issue with the release of cell phones at MWSF is that a month later Apple is set to release the SDK. Seems like they would want to make a media circus out of that. So I see the iPhone 2 as coming out later in the year.

One very interesting possibility is that Apple goes the Software Defined Radio (SDR) route and uses a chip set that can be upgrade via software updates for what every transmission standard Apple wants to support. This could allow the release of a cell at MWSF that eventually can handle 3G and other protocols.

Dave
post #181 of 230
Good points. The thing is that when Apple got into the mp3 market there was no competition so al they had to do was get a decent device out there and they were sorted.

The phone market is much more saturated. Most people know exactly what they want. It's not so evident in the US as the market is quite some way behind there but in Europe you can tell is plain black and white. You have Nokia who are untouched at the top of the game, they dominate the market with phones to suit all types. Low end, mid range, high end, musc centric, video centric, all in one....you name it they have a phone for it. They release a new phone almost every month and are leaders of the smartphone AND dumbphone market.

As some have pointed out Apple look for profitablity ahead of sales so to be honest I dont see them wanting to change their strategy as there is no way they can generate the sort of sales worldwide that Nokia do. Fristly this is because their phones cant compete spec wise with the rest and they are overpriced. iphone may do some things very well but that seems tainted when you consider how much it doesnt do.

Some people like to refer to the iphone as the Mercedez or BMW of the phone industry hence it deserves to have a high price tag but Mercedez and BMW dont lack in any gimmicks which other cars have. They do everything what most other cars do and have the prestige on top.

Apple need to first pull its head out of its arse and get of its high horse if its wants to penetrate the market outside the USA. Im not a fanboy of any particular brand, I simply look to buy a phone which can offer me as much as possible. I really want to like the iphone but I know id get annoyed after a while at not being able to share videos with mates via bluetooth or not being able to drag and drop any media content direct to my phone. For those on here who dont see it in that light, well thats the difference really between our markets.

Camera phones are huge over here, where as they are still in their infancy in the states. Of course no phone cam will match a digital camera but for candid shots when you are out and about its nice to have a 5mp cam with VGA 30fps video.

iphone is a nice idea buts its not really taken seriously by hardcore phone geeks im afraid to say. The mere assocaition of the word "smartphone" with iphone is a joke in itself as there is so much it doesnt do.

Overall its a good attempt for a first phone from Apple but im expecting better things come the 15th.
post #182 of 230
Quote:
I was always under the impression that the larger the lens the harder it is to achieve perfection.

Nope actually its the other way round. Cinema lens are the best designed and they are much larger than still photo or video lens'. Cine lens' need to have high resolution, high contrast and low veiling glare. They need to be high speed while retaining resolution from the center of the lens all the way to the edge, which most lenses cannot do. Most lens tend to increaser flair when they are opened to the widest stop and darken in the edges when they are closed down to the smallest stop. Cine lens need to have the ability of close focal distance with no focus breathing (an unwanted shift in image size when focus is changed). Close focus lens' can tend to have geometric distortion and chromatic aberration.

To achieve all of this in the same lens it has to be fairly large. The best cine prime lens average about 4.5 inches in diameter and weigh 5 pounds.
post #183 of 230
Quote:
Some people like to refer to the iphone as the Mercedez or BMW of the phone industry hence it deserves to have a high price tag but Mercedez and BMW dont lack in any gimmicks which other cars have. They do everything what most other cars do and have the prestige on top.

None of them went from never having built a car to suddenly building a car with every luxury feature ever other car has. It took them all time to develop where their cars are now. The same Apple will take their time to develop the iPhone.

Quote:
Apple need to first pull its head out of its arse and get of its high horse if its wants to penetrate the market outside the USA.

Since they only project to sell 10 million phones. I don't think they expect a significant penetration. Only significant profit.
post #184 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

Some people like to refer to the iphone as the Mercedez or BMW of the phone industry hence it deserves to have a high price tag but Mercedez and BMW dont lack in any gimmicks which other cars have. They do everything what most other cars do and have the prestige on top.

Oh bav, I was finally so close to agreeing with you. A cheap Mercedes is $31k because it is pretty. The more expensive they get, the smoother the ride, the nicer the leather, and the bigger the engine, right? I mean, how nice can things like GPS and media players get?

The iPhone has been proven to have better rendering by Amorya on "Slow Release of iPhone Updates" (Page 3, Post 85). The case is by far the sexiest one out there. The closest competitor in my books is the Prada, but that one is dull in comparison. Can you name another phone that has the battery life, 8GB capacity, quality resolution screen, and connectivity (mac or pc) that the iPhone has? It doesn't have GPS, but that could be added by the carrier (like Verizon). It doesn't have 3G, but that is because they want the battery life and it will be announced in a week according to you.

So this one may be BARELY shy of your beloved Nokias, but don't treat it like it is crap compared to the Nokia because it has features and beauty that many phones dream of.
post #185 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

But its a deal!!! Mods get things in order!

Well well well Bav, will it be AssWipe or AlwaysWrong? Your choice...


post #186 of 230
I'm exceptionally frustrated with today, they should have AT LEAST put out a 16 GB version. Now how long am I expected to wait for a new iPhone Does anybody have any idea when we might see it now?
post #187 of 230
You are not the only one who is frustrated and disappointed---Apple stock is down 12 points as I write this--

The Airbook is nice--but so what?

The movie deal--again so what--I can get all the movies from my cable company or from Netflix

a big so what to Apple
post #188 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammick View Post

You are not the only one who is frustrated and disappointed---Apple stock is down 12 points as I write this--

The Airbook is nice--but so what?

The movie deal--again so what--I can get all the movies from my cable company or from Netflix

a big so what to Apple

I thought that they would, at the very least, announce a 16 GB version. Now it looks like they are saving that for the 3G.
post #189 of 230
Oh yeah ... out getting a new name I guess. I had faith in him too. Guess that makes me naive.
post #190 of 230
Hey, LaEsperanza, I just watched Steve’s keynote. Did I miss the part when Steve revealed two brand new iPhone models? You know, that “inside info” the previously named bavlondon2 talked down to all of us about? I didn’t miss anything? Steve didn’t introduce even one brand new iPhone model? You know what that means, don’t you?

Well, just to make sure everyone gets to join in on the fun, let’s have a brief recap of some rather bold statements bav said and then give out his award. (cue the awards music theme)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

As ive said all along, wait till the 15th. Care to have a little wager? If im wrong in any of my predictions ill change my username to asswipe. But im right then you change yours to dumbyank? Deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

Come the 15th we shall see. Ive said my piece. Nothing to prove to you, I had inside info and chose to share it with you lot. if you dont want to take it then shut up and dont reply to my post, its not that hard is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

Yes for the last time, 2 different products! And theres no need to go round name calling anyone moron. Your only digging your grave deeper with everyone of these antagonistic posts mate. :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

Ah backing out of the bet then are we. Typical Americans, all talk!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

But its a deal!!! Mods get things in order!

So there you have it, fellow members of AppleInsider. As many here suspected, Bavlondon2 was wrong. Since I’ve restated some of bav’s quote’s, please allow me to restate one of mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kephisto View Post

And the winner of the “2007 Greatest Know-it-all that in fact knows-nothing, is – bavlondon2! Stand up, let’s clap for this amazing winner, ladies and gentleman.”

So, even if bavlondon2 doesn't pick a new name, he still has a new title.
post #191 of 230
I'll say that this is my favorite part about today's keynote. Where you at Bav? I know you've been on since the keynote.
post #192 of 230
Muahahahahahahj

Nokia rules all!!!!!!!!!!
post #193 of 230
you guys are doing a fine job of making apple insider forums crappy
post #194 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

Muahahahahahahj

Nokia rules all!!!!!!!!!!

So you going to man up Bav?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chewbee View Post

you guys are doing a fine job of making apple insider forums crappy

Welcome to the forum chewbee. Just a little banter between the boys. Anyways, you know those times when you are in a conversation and somebody walks up acting like they know what is going on? Yeah, that's you.
post #195 of 230
well macworld has come and gone. new guesses for new iPhone slash capacity upgrade? i want to order one, but something is just holding me back for a 16GB version...
post #196 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by sthiede View Post

well macworld has come and gone. new guesses for new iPhone slash capacity upgrade? i want to order one, but something is just holding me back for a 16GB version...

I predict it will happen sometime in the future.
post #197 of 230
I predict a new iphone in the next 12 months hahahahahahahaa
post #198 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

I predict a new iphone in the next 12 months hahahahahahahaa

Oh get a new name, Bav...
post #199 of 230
Come on, bav, let us have our fun. You know we deserve it. We had to listen to your demeaning "inside info" attitude for weeks, along with you calling other members "noobs" and saying how we should "wait and see" and then we would be proven wrong. We never said we had inside info about the iPhone. You did, more than once. Had Steve introduced two new iPhone models you would have unleashed online Armageddon.

You boasted what would happen at MacWorld and it didnt turn out that way. For all your ranting and raving, talking down to others as if you knew better than the rest of us, and telling the mods to get things in order, Steve didnt even introduce one new iPhone model, let alone the two you said he would. So, any way you look at it, you were wrong.

Bav, nows your chance to face up, take a stand, admit you were wrong, and just perhaps not be so overwhelmingly better than thou when stating your opinions as if they were facts. Theres nothing you can say from here on that can come close to restoring your rep than if Steve did as you said he would. But now, at the very least, you can prove to us that you have a sense of humor and fair play. Youre the one that threw down the challenge of changing your forum name if you were wrong. Guess what? You were wrong. Are you going to change your name or not?

There are other funny options for you too, such as your adding a signature about your new name at the bottom of each post, but Ill let you figure those things out. Theres really two options, bav face up to your own challenge or try to pretend you didnt make one.

Which one you choose speaks volumes about your character.
post #200 of 230
I dont think Sigs are allowed on this forum but if they are I would be more than happy to put one on.

So I didnt have inside info so what? Yeah I lied and what!

As you can see im still here and have not vanished since I was proven wrong.
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