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Reports: UK consumers slow to adopt Apple's iPhone - Page 2

post #41 of 87
For me, the iphone as a device is fantastic, and the price is totally justifiable. it's at least 5 years ahead of its time and merges many current device into one fantastic gadget. Sure, over £200 is expensive, but you get what you pay for. For me it is the network that lets the side down, although O2 is actually my current network provider, the tariffs available for iphone users are appalling, £35 as a minimum monthly contract as well as a shocking 200 texts and 200 minutes is totally ridiculous. 02 is just pinning their hopes on the iphone being so good that buyers will overlook the poor contract, a serious oversight in my eyes
post #42 of 87
Would be instructive for iPhone to fail in a couple of markets. Could provide the impetus Apple needs to listen to consumers closer.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

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post #43 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Would be instructive for iPhone to fail in a couple of markets. Could provide the impetus Apple needs to listen to consumers closer.

Ummmm... all this speculation may be true, but it has a whiff of familiarity: "everyone forms unrealistic expectations ---> media screams letdown ---> Apple blows away expectations" that we saw soon after launch in the US. (Remember how Apple's stock tanked something like $25 when ATT announced only 140,000 activations?).

Well, at least the first two parts of this cycle are showing up again.

I guess we'll know for sure only when the numbers actually come out.
post #44 of 87
I love the iPhone, and agree thats its value is much more than just the headline features, but it is at a huge disadvantage here in the UK because of the pricing.

The Nokia N95 - which is the phone most often compared to the iPhone is FREE from O2 with a contract similar to that of the iPhone.
Free is going to beat £269 for the iPhone 99% of the time.
Apple need to be offering similar deals soon or massively increase the perceived value.
The N95 is a quality full featured smartphone.

http://shop.o2.co.uk/phone/Nokia/N95

The good news is that I think the iPod touch is doing very well!
post #45 of 87
Too expensive. No 3G. No MMS. 'nuff said. \

The rest is just arm-flailing.


.
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post #46 of 87
Quote:
The Nokia N95 - which is the phone most often compared to the iPhone is FREE from O2 with a contract similar to that of the iPhone.

From what I can find of this deal its a 30 pound tariff, 7.5 pounds for unlimited data, 7 pounds for unlimited Cloud WiFi access. Which comes out to 801 over 18 months.
post #47 of 87
Quote:
Too expensive. No 3G. No MMS. 'nuff said.

From the reports the cost is the limiting factor. I can agree 200 minutes for 35 pounds does not sound like a good deal.

I get 450 minutes for the equivalent of 34 pounds. Any minutes I don't use are saved to be used later.
post #48 of 87
The fact of the matter is that Apple trying to sell US-centric business models, devices, and pricing in other parts of the world ain't gonna fly. The rest of the world has some combination of non-exclusive deals with carriers, device portability across networks, better and more open hardware and software, shorter contracts, more competitive pricing for plans, etc.

So, Apple either needs to change their approach or expect lower sales in the rest of the world. No news here, plenty of people predicted this months ago when the iPhone was released.
post #49 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

From the reports the cost is the limiting factor. I can agree 200 minutes for 35 pounds does not sound like a good deal.

I get 450 minutes for the equivalent of 34 pounds. Any minutes I don't use are saved to be used later.

What people fail to mention though is the unlimited access to the cloud wifi network. That's a pretty sweet deal IMO. I don't know why that isn't mentioned more frequently. We don't get a similar perk from ATT.
post #50 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Ummmm... all this speculation may be true, but it has a whiff of familiarity: "everyone forms unrealistic expectations ---> media screams letdown ---> Apple blows away expectations" that we saw soon after launch in the US. (Remember how Apple's stock tanked something like $25 when ATT announced only 140,000 activations?).

Well, at least the first two parts of this cycle are showing up again.

I guess we'll know for sure only when the numbers actually come out.

Not having firsthand familiarity with the level of hype in England over the iPhone, I'd just add that overseas markets are familiar with all of the pluses and minuses of the iPhone at this point, so it's just a matter of how iPhone fits into their local market.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

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post #51 of 87
Quote:
That's a pretty sweet deal IMO. I don't know why that isn't mentioned more frequently. We don't get a similar perk from ATT.

To make it even worse ATT has its own WiFi network that it does not give us free access to. Once the SDK is available if VOIP is not blocked from the iPhone that unlimited Cloud access could make things very interesting.
post #52 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

From the reports the cost is the limiting factor. I can agree 200 minutes for 35 pounds does not sound like a good deal.

I get 450 minutes for the equivalent of 34 pounds. Any minutes I don't use are saved to be used later.


Listen to our UK friends sometime. Cost is a big part of it... but not the only part. \

.
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post #53 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

To make it even worse ATT has its own WiFi network that it does not give us free access to. Once the SDK is available if VOIP is not blocked from the iPhone that unlimited Cloud access could make things very interesting.

It would make sense if AT&T's contract forbids Apple from allowing a VoIP app from being allowed. Hopefully someone will use the SDK to make a quality VoIP client that connect to Skype and works with Jailbreak.
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post #54 of 87
Quote:
Listen to our UK friends sometime. Cost is a big part of it... but not the only part.

The UK is not homogenous there are UK people who say they have bought an iPhone and love it.
post #55 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The UK is not homogenous there are UK people who say they have bought an iPhone and love it.


A pity there aren't more such people, at these prices and at this feature set.

Oh, and Americans aren't a homogenous ppl either. There are a few who've bought Zunes and say they love 'em too. Hasn't really helped the Zune, though.

.
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post #56 of 87
Quote:
A pity there aren't more such people, at these prices and at this feature set.

I think you guys are jumping to a conclusion too soon. Give it until after Christmas and we should have a better view of things.
post #57 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I think you guys are jumping to a conclusion too soon. Give it until after Christmas and we should have a better view of things.


I'm a stockholder, so I want you to be right, but I'm pretty sure you aren't. A major improvement in the situation will very likely require a price drop of some kind and a feature-set improvement (3G, MMS), not just time and hope. \

Happy Holidays.

.
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post #58 of 87
My old man got an iPhone the first weekend. (Bast.... didn't get me one)

I saw him first time since yesterday...

Still wasn't activated. He had to wait a week to get a code from Vodafone to change his number. Then another week for O2 to process it. He's expecting it to be activated sometime this week...

I've got no idea how representative this is of other users, but then that's why I'm not a journalist. I don't extrapolate figures from rumours to guesswork.

Anyone who tries to give figures, let alone analysis of those figures, without any reputable source, is talking out of an orifice which has evolved for a different purpose.
post #59 of 87
iPhone is reasonable price - have to agree with others, it's the tariff setup that's crap.
post #60 of 87
The title of this article should have read "Apple's iPhone is a Flop in UK."
But then Friday's headline read that Apple "slashed" prices on Black Friday -LOL!
Seriously,Europeans and Brits are much more savvy when it come to cellphones. Their phones have always been better than the ones here and I'm sure this was met with a reserved yawn. They've had many of these options for years. Maybe not on one device but it's no big deal to them. And they are not as gullible to American marketers as we are and wait in line for an obviously overpriced device.
post #61 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by hahjr View Post

The real problem (certainly from my point of view) isn't the cost of the iPhone. I don't think the price is too unreasonable - certainly when compared to an iPod. The aspect that totally puts me off is O2's god awful iPhone specific tariffs. Let's be fair: it's bad enough having to pay for the phone (when you can get any other for free), but after shelling out all that, then being stuck with having to pay £35 for 200 mins and 200 texts! What rubbish. I'm on O2 now and I pay £20 for 600 mins and 800 texts. There is no phone in world that is cool enough to persuade me to change to a tariff that drastically different!

If O2 allowed current customers to simply buy an iPhone and continue with their current contract I think sales would improve. But only a fool (or someone who has enough money to burn) would buy an iPhone when stuck with the awful selection of tariffs O2 has put on offer.

I quite agree. I've been with o2 for years, but I have found they have always bent over backwards to help in any query or problem, unlike Vodafone or worse still, Phones 4U. However, they told me (and we already know this from AI's previous quotes) that they are forced to charge these high prices by Apple. Several o2 people I've spoken to said they would prefer to give the phones away for free, as they do with most of their other brands. They say this will probably happen later on.

In the meantime, I have passed on the iPhone this time round, have upgraded my phone to another SE. While Apple continue to force such a ridiculous price, with so many features missing compared to other phones you can get for free, they know where they can stick it!!!!
post #62 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

What people fail to mention though is the unlimited access to the cloud wifi network. That's a pretty sweet deal IMO. I don't know why that isn't mentioned more frequently. We don't get a similar perk from ATT.

I've posted this before, but the Cloud wifi network, although rolled out to 7,500 hot spots so far, is way too limited at present. The nearest Cloud wifi is in the next small town 8 miles away, and then there are only 3 places!!!

Long way to go yet before wifi will be any use in UK, although big towns/cities have plenty.
post #63 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Excellent points. A couple of questions/observations:

1) What is the share of iPods in the UK? Is it as high as that in the US?

2) How do these sales compare to those of comparable 'smart'phones (e.g., N95) in the UK? (I have never seen any numbers on them, yet the tech-literati in forums like these are always praising them, and talking about how feature-lite the iPhone is).

3) How many phones is 1% of the UK mobile phone market? (The survey shouldn't be troubling as long as it says that 1% of consumers are interested every year?)

I just pulled these price quotes off the 02 website. And people WONDER WHY they wont sell.
You can get ANY of the latest smartphones packaged with free memory cards and bluetooth headsets for FREE on cheap/mid-tier 18-month contracts. Just Look at these deals they get in the UK:


Nokia N95 (5MP cam) + Free 8GB SD card = FREE on £40+/mo plans (18 mo contract)

LG Viewty (5MP cam) +bluetooth headset = FREE on £35+/mo plans (18 mo contrac)

Nokia N81 (8GB Media slider) = FREE on £40+/mo plans (18 mo contract)

Sony Ericsson K850i (5MP cam) = FREE on £30+/mo plans (18 mo contract)

Samsung G600 (5MP cam) + 1GB card + Bluetooth headset = FREE £30+/mo plans (18 mo contract)


How in the hell is the Iphone going to compete at £269 + £50+/month even with "unlimited" data? That is just crazy that Apple thought they could get away with that. Are they braindead?
post #64 of 87
FWIW, i'm a fairly serious apple enthusiast (i'm reading this forum for start, and on maybe my 6th mac?), and already and O2 customer. After reading the small print i worked out i could get an iPhone and return it after 14 days for full refund and return to my old O2 contract if i wanted, so there was nothing to lose.

And it's going back on thursday.

I'll be very sad to see it go, but it simply is not worth the money (yet?). Initial cost is high, but obviously it's more than just a phone, and i really appreciate the way it integrates with my mac. But it really feels like apple just haven't bothered in some areas.

Why on earth is the headphone socket recessed so i can't use my own headphones, which i already own and are better than apples (I'm a musician)? What possible reason is there for that?

It's beyond me why MMS isn't enabled, but O2's appalling handling in lieu of native capability is galling, especially considering how much they want me to pay for their contract. And it's frankly insulting that only on the iPhone contracts you can not carry over minutes/texts, especially given how few they give you.

Edge is just pretty much non-existent in my experience, and it's not mind blowing when i can get it.

The cloud's network is only good in places i don't generally go to, and often as not in places i'd actually feel a little edgy flashing an iphone around in (i suppose it depends where you live).

Some very simple omissions already mean that in the UK market it's relying pretty much soley on it's (admitting wonderful) interface and usability. But ramping the cost up like this just LOOKS like they're trying to scam you.

Normally with apple products it feels like they've gone the extra mile for you in the design and spec etc, and that you're paying for the care and attention in return. With the iphone though, it feels a bit like apple are just hoping that the whizzing menus and wonderful screen will distract me from the fact that they've skimped in some areas and simply not bothered in others, and that's a bit annoying, and a bit disappointing really...
post #65 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by deanbar View Post

I've posted this before, but the Cloud wifi network, although rolled out to 7,500 hot spots so far, is way too limited at present. The nearest Cloud wifi is in the next small town 8 miles away, and then there are only 3 places!!!

Long way to go yet before wifi will be any use in UK, although big towns/cities have plenty.

That's exactly 7500 more spots than we get with ATT. I guessing you're in a rural area and rural areas always seem to get the shaft when it comes to technology deployments. Its the same here in the states. I'll bet that in the cities those hotspots are well located and come in handy.
post #66 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanders View Post

Why on earth is the headphone socket recessed so i can't use my own headphones, which i already own and are better than apples (I'm a musician)? What possible reason is there for that?

You make a lot of valid points why the iPhone dpesn't work for you or in Europe, but you cannot use your headphones unless you buy an adapter. The reason is that the iPhone's headphones also has a microphone built in. This requires a 3rd connector on the jack. Its recessed to keep people from using it and then wondering why their headphones aren't working. I, too, am not a fan of Apple's headphones and hope Sony or Shure come out with iPhone compatible headphones with a built-in mic.
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post #67 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Its recessed to keep people from using it and then wondering why their headphones aren't working.......

I don't follow what you're saying here....... could you clarify?
post #68 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I don't follow what you're saying here....... could you clarify?

I have some spelling errors in there. Sorry.

The headphone/mic jack is the same size as a regular headphone jack but has 3 connectors on it (one for each speaker and one for the mic). This means that normal headphones aren't going to work properly. Apple was smart to make it recessed. If they didn't people would be plugging in incompatible headphones and then wondering why they aren't working properly.
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post #69 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Here we go again, without understanding or pointing out the difference between pre-tax and post-tax numbers!

And the sales tax in the US would be....

Honestly why is it so difficult for people to accept that we are being overcharged in Europe - dramatically. I mean Apple should realize that when you charge such a premium for its products then at least you could do the common courtesy and NOT treat us like 2nd class citizens.

OK the Euro/$ rate works for us -big time- but even if i take the NET prices (and i do know my pre- and post-tax numbers thank you very much - I have my own company) we are 20-25% dearer my dear.

[And now an OT rant]

So how are we being shafted ?

Higher Net-Prices
Later availability (iPhone)
No availability (iPhone)
No availability (Video content in ITS)

Sure someone will say "not Apple's fault", "content owners..." and so on and so on.

Well maybe -just maybe- some parts of corporate management take the finger out of the proverbial and start facing reality of the 3rd millenium.

Sure you can artificially block content sales or even stop supplying iTunes (hello NBC !). Ever heard of Bittorrent ? NBC - anyone there ? I must say -I would have paid for Galactica Razor on ITS. Up to 10$ as it happens (for the extended version that is). It just wasn't there. It was there on Bittorrent though (TV version).

Lesson to be learned is (and this applies to the iPhone too) : if you try to artificially lock people out of the market there will always be ways to gain access. By artificially locking out people you annoy those who you most desperately need actually - the early adopters, those who do free marketing for you by singing the songs of praise and are your product ambassadors.

MacBook 13", iBook 12", iMac 17", XSERV G5, 2G iPod, 3GiPod, 5G iPod, AppleTV (so I guess I am entitled to a bit of annoyance)
post #70 of 87
The iPhone not doing well in the UK? Adding my voice to those who are saying nice gadget, shame about some details and terrible pricing structure.

At the moment I am paying £17.50 on my monthly O2 contract, which gives me more than adequate free minutes and text. No problems with O2, who without being spectacular have provided steady service (and one presumes it goes without saying that I am paid up 'Cult of Mac' member). Probably the £35 tariff does the trick with regard my usage, so the extra over I would pay gives me data. Therefore, if data is the selling point my conclusion, having tried the beast in store, is that it is fine when using the wifi connection, but a bit 56k modem through the phone network. All well and good where there is cloud, but not so good for those of us who live outside the main cities and will need the O2 network. Even more, I have an Airport network at home plus free wifi on my train to work and at work, so where why pay anyway? Beyond that, for the £315 extra over 18 months, what really does the iPhone give me that my existing mobile plus an iTouch would'nt? Maybe Apple are being clever here and hoping to shift iTouch's to those like me, and fair play if they are being that clever (because quite probably that is the way I am going to go until the iPhone pricing gives me something really worth paying for ... 3G anybody?), but they are wasting their time wringing their hands if people like me have taken a cool look at what we get and say no thank you for the time being.
post #71 of 87
One half of you are arguing that the handset is too expensive, and the other half are moaning about missing features.

The real issue for me, being a long-time O2 user, is that the iPhone barely picks up a signal. Whereas my old Sony phone got 3-4 bars out of a possible 5 bar reception, at both my studio and my work, my iPhone usually shows up as no service or one bar if I'm really lucky.

And I'm not alone. I know of two other people who had to go back to O2 and return their iPhones. This is an issue that Apple should have picked-up on before launching the iPhone in the UK.
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post #72 of 87
I don't mind forking out £269 for the phone

I don't mind paying 50% more per month for significantly less minutes and texts than I currently get with O2 (with whom I've been for nearly ten years)

I don't mind having an included data plan that will be practically useless to me - the wifi I use will be the one at home or the one in the office

What's stopping me from getting an iPhone is that I have to commit to the above for 18 months.

Why the hell would I do that?

What do I get in return for promising to pay them £45 a month for 18 months? Apart from, perhaps, a handset that will be out-dated within six months.
post #73 of 87
I am an Apple fan, I have played with my friends iPhone and I love it (I really love it, its ace) BUT..

The contract is rubbish, far to few minutes and texts for the price (I can get a contract for £30pm with 900 mins and a nokia n95 for free) with , the handset price is extortionate considering that Apple pickup 40% of the contract revenue. I would pickup one sim-free if they made it available at £300-£400 tops, but we all know that is not going to happen. Sure I could pop over to france and get one for 1000 (£750) but at that price I could pop into town and pickup a new Macbook!!

I am thinking of getting an iPod Touch then hacking it to add-on the iPhone apps but they seem overly expensive considering the storage they offer. Hmmm I will wait till next year to see what the iPhone 2.0 is like
post #74 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryblackman View Post

Actually it IS cheaper than the competition... by a long shot.

Looking at the price plans alone, and ignoring the "features" of the phone, you get unlimited data and Wifi thrown in for free. Unlimited data on any other phone on O2, or any other network is going to cost at least £7.50 a month if you're lucky, most likely £12.50. So far so good. Add in Wifi, and you're looking to add another £5.00 at least, a month. SO that's around £15 on top of the tariff of minutes.

It's ok if you actually need unlimited data and live/work near a Cloud Hotspot.

I don't. I've my own wifi network at home/work and two local cafes with free wifi anyway. Cost to me - zero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryblackman View Post

Look at Vodafone's unlimited data - don't do one, Oranges - don't do one, T-Mobile (£7.50 or 12.50), or 3 - £5.00 at least, or "unlimited" data with limits.

Orange - £8 for a month's access. It's a bundle so you don't have to buy it with your plan. You can go months without it if you don't need it. They also do daily and weekly bundles. It's subject to a 25Mb cap although I'm pretty sure I've been past that without them complaining. It's available on PAYG without a contract and you can use it via your phone as a modem to your laptop should you need to. It's worked out great for me. I think my data bill last year was probably around the £30 mark in total. I bought a PAYG SIM especially for it.

Vodafone - £1 a day for 15MB on PAYG or £7.50 for 120MB a month on contract.

Depending on your usage pattern, the iPhone could be cheaper but only if you actually need large amounts of data and live next to a Cloud hotspot and use that all the time. I would suspect most people don't.
post #75 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The headphone/mic jack is the same size as a regular headphone jack but has 3 connectors on it (one for each speaker and one for the mic). This means that normal headphones aren't going to work properly. Apple was smart to make it recessed. If they didn't people would be plugging in incompatible headphones and then wondering why they aren't working properly.

This isn't true.

Normal stereo headphone do work provided the jack is physically capable of fitting in the recessed socket. Apple even say so...

http://www.apple.com/iphone/questionsandanswers.html

The problem is entirely physical, not electrical. If you don't mind trimming off some of the plastic around a jack, then even a set of expensive Shures will work. You may think twice about doing that with hundreds of dollars worth of headphone though.
post #76 of 87
plus of course, the iPhone contract is also the only one you cannot get cheaper as an upgrade if you are already an current O2 customer. It's a cracking piece of technology - if not without it's shortcomings - but you almost feel like they're treating you with contempt, offering a basically below-par spec'd phone, at an abnormally high price, on a series of abnormally expensive and mean-fisted tariffs. i'm not especially knocking the phone, because i don't really want to give it back, but the terms are simply unacceptable. You're not just paying a premium, you're actively treated worse than other O2 customers.

@solipsism: cheers - didn't realise that about the headphone socket. the annoying thing about that is it's supposed to be a pigging ipod! having to use an adapter or special headphones means it's basically not much better than my old/soon-to-be-current-again SE for listening to music (has it a funny socket too), and i've NEVER used it for that (i use an ipod...)
post #77 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

This isn't true.

Normal stereo headphone do work provided the jack is physically capable of fitting in the recessed socket. Apple even say so...

http://www.apple.com/iphone/questionsandanswers.html

The problem is entirely physical, not electrical. If you don't mind trimming off some of the plastic around a jack, then even a set of expensive Shures will work. You may think twice about doing that with hundreds of dollars worth of headphone though.

What kind of headphones can I use with iPhone?
iPhone has a standard 3.5-mm headphone jack, so it is compatible with most portable stereo headphones.
Thanks for the link. That does offically destroy my theory as to way Apple did that.
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post #78 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

I just pulled these price quotes off the 02 website. And people WONDER WHY they wont sell.

It's worse if you go to the Carphone Warehouse website. Free laptops, free PS3, Wii... etc with almost any decent phone except the iPhone.

http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/
post #79 of 87
Ah... same bitching and moaning, different continent.

Most of the gripes are valid, but must also be put in perspective. Despite it's price and technological shortcomings, the iPhone is still the best phone ever made... by a large margin.

It isn't surprising that Apple wasn't able to effortlessly trounce into the european mobile market. I'm sure they're aware of of what they need to do to make the iPhone a huge success and are actively pursuing that goal.

It will be interesting to look back at a few years from now and evaluate Apple's emergence as a handset provider. I think it is too early to tell how history will tell the story. If apple's sales explode a year or two from now, does it mean the initial launch was a failure?
post #80 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by freelander51 View Post

Honestly why is it so difficult for people to accept that we are being overcharged in Europe - dramatically. I mean Apple should realize that when you charge such a premium for its products then at least you could do the common courtesy and NOT treat us like 2nd class citizens.

OK the Euro/$ rate works for us -big time- but even if i take the NET prices (and i do know my pre- and post-tax numbers thank you very much - I have my own company) we are 20-25% dearer my dear.

MacBook 13", iBook 12", iMac 17", XSERV G5, 2G iPod, 3GiPod, 5G iPod, AppleTV (so I guess I am entitled to a bit of annoyance)

Catch a breath.

1) Given the 17.5% VAT in the UK, a $400 (pre-tax) product converted at £1 = $2 will sell at £235 in the UK. Apple has not control over the VAT.

2) You might ask, what about the extra £34? To me, it actually seems rather low, given the generally higher wages and other costs of doing business (e.g., retailing and distribution costs, insurance etc) in Europe.

3) At the end of the day, the proof of the pudding is how much Apple makes in Europe (unfortunately, they do not provide segment data for UK alone, but I doubt that it is much different): According to Apple's 10-K filed on Nov 15, 2007, the company's Operating Margin (i.e., Operating Income as % Sales) was 25.4% in the US and 24.7% in Europe. See http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....357&p=irol-sec

It certainly does not seem like Apple is screwing you guys. If anyone is, it's your own government and your retailers. And, that is not Apple's fault.
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