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Apple's cyber sellout; Verizon's open promise; third NYC flagship

post #1 of 85
Thread Starter 
Cyber Monday saw inventories of Apple's iPod Touch and iPod Classic products run dry at several of the Internet's largest retailers. Meanwhile, Verizon said Tuesday it plans to open its network to a new and wide range of devices, just as rapper Jermaine Dupri posted a public rant about iTunes. And it appears that Apple is pushing to have its third flagship shop in Manhattan open ahead of the December holidays.

Apple's Cyber Monday sellout

Shares of Apple rose $2.27 to close at $174.81 Tuesday after Morgan Keegan & Co. issued a report stating that online demand for iPods outstripped supply during the "Cyber Monday" shopping spree.

Analyst Tavis C. McCourt kept his "Market Perform" or "Hold" rating on the company after the Cyber Monday and Black Friday rush forced the 8GB and 16GB versions of the iPod Touch to be placed on backorder at some of the Internet's leading retailers. In addition, the 80-gigabyte iPod Classic was also placed on backorder at some shops, McCourt said.

"Combined with a continued drop in NAND flash pricing, the demand for iPod Touch is yet another data point that argues that upside to our current estimates appear(s) more likely than downside for the December quarter," the analyst told clients.

Meanwhile, MacMall issued a statement on Tuesday saying that its own sales for the period from Thanksgiving through Cyber Monday increased by 65 percent from the same period last year, primarily driven by strong sales of MacBooks, iMacs, Office 2004 Mac, and all versions of the iPod with the exception of the iPod Shuffle.

Looking to maintain its momentum, the online retailer on Tuesday kicked-off a holiday sale which offers rebates and savings on some previous-generation 24-inch 2.16GHz iMacs ($1449) and 2.33GHz 17-inch MacBook Pros ($2099), as well as discounts on the 80GB iPod Classic ($236.99) and LaCie's 500GB USB 2.0 external hard drive ($114.99).

Verizon to open wireless network

Meanwhile, Verizon did its part to shake up the US cellular industry Tuesday by announcing a new strategy that will allow customers more choice of their own hardware and software.

Dubbed "Any Apps, Any Device," the move will reportedly let any cellphone, computer, or similar device that meets a certain minimum technical threshold run on the carrier's network and use its services. Those devices will be able to use any software a user demands rather than what Verizon dictates for its own handsets.

Verizon sees the expansion as a "transformation" for the industry but notes that its core strategy of offering locked phones with customized, controlled software will remain intact. Whether prices will change for service plans for unrestricted devices is unknown, but the technical guidelines will be published by early 2008 and will see the open service available across all of Verizon's service areas by the end of 2008.

The move is largely considered an attempt to win favor with the government and public for the upcoming FCC auction of the 700MHz spectrum, which is expected to serve as the basis for future cellular or wide-area Internet services. Verizon recently dropped its resistance to open access rules won by Google for the auction despite a short-lived lawsuit and allegations that Verizon was engaged in questionable lobbying of Martin to allow auction winners to lock down access.

Meatpacking District Apple Store grand opening

Our friends at ifoAppleStore have been notably accurate when it comes to pinpointing launch dates for Apple's future retail stores ahead of an official announcements.

A concept rendering of the renovated retail space at 14th Street and 9th Avenue.

According to their latest post, multiple sources have pointed to December 7th as the grand opening date for the 14th Street retail store on Manhattan's west side -- a spectacular, two-story corner space in the citys Meatpacking District.

JD's got Jay-Z's back

Ranting for the Huffington Post, hip-hop mogul Jermaine Dupri is calling on artists, producers and label executives to stand up to "those guys at Apple" and tell them they can either cooperate with the music industry's demands "or have nothing for people to buy and download on their iPods."

Specifically, Dupri takes issues with Apple's iTunes model that allows customers to purchase individual singles without buying entire albums.

"Some people find it hard to understand my man Jay-Z's decision not to let iTunes break up his American Gangster album and sell it as single tracks," he wrote. "They say he's fighting the future and losing out on sales from fans who only want to download singles. But I say it was a stand somebody had to take in the music industry. Jay is speaking for all of us."

Dupri goes on to accuse Apple of helping the consumer 'destroy his canvas' and demands that the company start to "respect the craft!"

"We don't tell you to break up your computers into bits and pieces and sell off each thing," he adds. "When you go to the Apple store you may only need one thing, but you have to buy all their plug ins and stuff. You have to buy their whole package, even if you don't necessarily want it, or your equipment won't work."

Greenpeace bumps Apple

Finally, a combination of new entrants and shifts in corporate practices have shaken up the rankings for ecologically friendly electronics makers, according to the December 2007 Greenpeace guide to the technology industry.

Electronista notes that Apple has improved from its previously low scores, moving from 12th to 11th place; this is largely due to the use of aluminum and glass for the new iMac as well as a reduction in toxic chemicals for many iPods. The company nonetheless needs to more explicitly outline which hazardous substances it continues to use and also needs to greatly expand its takeback policy for recycling obsolete hardware outside of the US, Greenpeace argues.
post #2 of 85
Here's an idea:

Why can't artists just dub an album that is made up of one track, so that when it is put on iTunes, the album runs together. If the artist truly wants a single entity to be purchased, then he/she should make their "glorious" creation how they want it to be sold. This master track could even be sold as a full CD in terms of price. If you create a split up CD from the get-go, you only open the door to people wanting to buy the specific sections.


The whole purpose of the track-by-track purchasing scheme is to give the customer a choice. Often times, artists have both good songs and filler material. Only if you like it, should you have to buy the filler. This is the primary reason for the 'Complete my album' function within the iTS. If the customer deems the album worth thier money after purchasing songs individually, then the customer can choose to endorse the work of the artist through the purchase of the entire CD. The artists need to stop pretending that they are almighty gods, and come down to earth. MAKE GOOD MUSIC, AND THEY WILL COME!
post #3 of 85
Screw Greenpeace. They've gone from environmental gadfly to enviromental radicals. If RoHS compliance isn't good enough for them, then they can go take a flying leap. I think somebody should do a site survey of everything in the Greenpeace HQ. I can almost guarantee some kind of embarrassing "toxic" materials could be found.

As for Dupri, he's even dumber than a moron if he thinks they can make it so there's "nothing for people to buy and download on their iPods." If you want to go back to the bad, old days of virtually all illegal downloads, that's fine with an awful lot of people. P2P isn't even as hard as it used to be.
post #4 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

If you want to go back to the bad, old days of virtually all illegal downloads, that's fine with an awful lot of people. P2P isn't even as hard as it used to be.

But with p2p people will download the whole album.
post #5 of 85
I've always said that the fugly unnecessary iMac revision was done to improve it's Greenpeace rating. Thanks Apple for giving us a lemon instead of a real new iMac.
post #6 of 85
Guys, are there any Apple stores that you're NOT calling "flagship" stores?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/flagship
post #7 of 85
Dupri is another greedy record exec!
How about this.....
Have artist make CD's with good songs, no fillers and people will buy the entire CD
Why should people be forced to pay for garbage music when there is another alternative?
Half pint didn't get the memo....
IT'S A BRAND NEW DAY!
post #8 of 85
I don't care for the attitudes of Dupri (whoever he is) and Jay-Z... all that means for me is that I won't buy whatever they're selling. The only good thing about Jay-Z is Beyonce, anyway.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #9 of 85
The iTunes Store has become so large that if its not there, people will just go some place else to get the music. Mostly, that would be something like Limewire or Acquisition. So IMO, you can make a little money, or no money at all. Jay-Z's comments are banking on people going to some other store to get the music and most likely thats not going to happen. He's also banking on iTunes being the only place to get music to put on your iPod. The iPod is actually a widely scaleable music player. As long as it isn't WMA,or some other proprietary protected MP3 you can pretty much get the music anywhere. It doesn't have to come from iTunes and in fact I'm willing to bet that 75% of the music on people's iPods doesn't come from the iTunes Store.

Also his computer comments don't really make any sense to me. It just shows his ignorance to the computer industry.

If I only want tracks 2, 5, and 8, then why should I be made to buy the whole CD? For a $13 CD with 13 songs on it, thats a waste of $10. Its just free money in his pocket basically. Just another way to screw the customer so he can have his tricked out Cadillac with 25" chrome rims and a $10,000 diamond gold necklace (Not to sound politically incorrect). Because everyone deserves one of those....
My website: Macxpress

24" Aluminum iMac 2.4 GHz, 4GB RAM, 320 GB HDD
Unibody MacBook 2.0 GHz, 3 GB RAM, 160 GB HDD
Quicksilver PowerMac G4 867 MHz, 768 MB PC133, 80 GB HD w/17" Apple Studio LCD...
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My website: Macxpress

24" Aluminum iMac 2.4 GHz, 4GB RAM, 320 GB HDD
Unibody MacBook 2.0 GHz, 3 GB RAM, 160 GB HDD
Quicksilver PowerMac G4 867 MHz, 768 MB PC133, 80 GB HD w/17" Apple Studio LCD...
Reply
post #10 of 85
"but you have to buy all their plug ins and stuff. You have to buy their whole package, even if you don't necessarily want it, or your equipment won't work."

You mean buy a Mac with your iPod? Nope they work on Windows too. Only use iTunes to purchase music? Nope go on over to Amazon. What exactly are you talking about JD? Plugins?

Why don't you let your "fans" set your prices (see Radiohead) and you'll find out how much your albums are really worth. You'd probably make more selling a couple singles on iTunes.
post #11 of 85
Oh my god!!!
Less rap on iTunes? WhatsoEVER shall we do?
post #12 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsFan83 View Post

"but you have to buy all their plug ins and stuff. You have to buy their whole package, even if you don't necessarily want it, or your equipment won't work."

You mean buy a Mac with your iPod? Nope they work on Windows too. Only use iTunes to purchase music? Nope go on over to Amazon. What exactly are you talking about JD? Plugins?

Why don't you let your "fans" set your prices (see Radiohead) and you'll find out how much your albums are really worth. You'd probably make more selling a couple singles on iTunes.

No Kidding! Dupri really shows how completely stupid he is. I wonder if he has ever had to buy his own computer. I also wonder if he has used a computer. News flash, you can buy stuff separately. What a moron.

Also, these artists better stop making crappy tracks to fill albums, because we have a choice now, thanks to Jobs revolutionary idea. If you don't make a great album, I don't have to buy the entire thing. There are many whole albums I have bought off iTunes. Yea, those albums from TALENTED ARTISTS!!!
post #13 of 85
Looks like Verizon is pulling a semi-Apple (DRM free) move to shake it up. That should be seen as a desperate move to make up market share and become more appealing for some.
Hard-Core.
Reply
Hard-Core.
Reply
post #14 of 85
well as much as i love Jay Z i have to say buying a entire album to listen to 1 song does not make to much sense ether. ya wanna sell entire albums make good albums case close. it takes less than a minute to find a NZB file of a entire album and less than 1 minute to downloaded completly. there biggest problem is not apple its Amazon Selling there Music DRM free but there so greedy they dont see that
post #15 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"We don't tell you to break up your computers into bits and pieces and sell off each thing," he adds. "When you go to the Apple store you may only need one thing, but you have to buy all their plug ins and stuff. You have to buy their whole package, even if you don't necessarily want it, or your equipment won't work."

Heh, what a damned dummy. Rule #1 of stupid school should be, don't try to make analogies... ever.
post #16 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Heh, what a damned dummy. Rule #1 of stupid school should be, don't try to make analogies... ever.

I wonder if he will quit while he is behind or follow up on his comments.
I hope he says more. I haven't laughed so hard for quite a while.
(meanwhile I notice he still has tracks for sale on ITS:
ignorant,stupid, and a hypocrite)
post #17 of 85
Jay Z and Dupri are being ridiculous. Trying to say the individual songs must be purchased as an album is ridiculous. Some songs will be good and some will totally stink.

that is why "the industry" sold singles of popular songs for so long.

Apple takes the concept and makes it the best thing for THE CONSUMER!

Wow! Novel!

Now vivendi and one individual artist want to make things go back to the confusing and consumer beware no mans land that it was before.

Hey Dupri, apple already respects the "craft," that is why they designed a LEGAL download system that no only works, but gets people who would never buy your stuff to get to sample it from the comfort of their home and download the parts they like.

I would never buy a "trick Daddy" album, but I did download the "let's Go" song, because I was able to hear and download it on iTunes. If I had to buy the whole album for that song, I would go without.

These guys need to shut up and either withdraw their stuff quietly or respect Apple's "craft" which enables them to reach broader audience.

If they don't like it, fine withdraw, but shut up about your "craft" and trying to get others to follow your dubious lead. Why not just be honest and say that you just want to force people to pay more. Some people will pay you more and some people will steer clear.
post #18 of 85
The problem is that we all know and apple knows only 1 or 2 songs on an album are any good and we rather pay for what we want. But the Record industry is use to collecting $12 to $15 per album of 9 to 12 songs which they financed the productions and the cost of making a CD is like $0.10 per. So they are use to collecting $11 to $14 profit off each album allowing them to quickly pay off the investment they made in studio time and advertising. Remember most artists never collect a cent until all costs are paid off and the Record Execs are great at making sure they continue to run up costs.

Now steps in Apple selling singles for $0.99 and record companies now only see $0.75 so it is talking them allot longer to turn a proof and pay off their investment in 9 to 12 songs which people are only paying for one song so the other 8 to 11 never turn a profit for them.

So that is their side, but if they were smart they stop making artists product 9 to 12 songs which most suck and focus on one or two good onez and their profits would be greater and quicker. But obviously they have not figured that part out yet.
post #19 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

....And it appears that Apple is pushing to have its third flagship shop in Manhattan open ahead of the December holidays.

If I'm not mistake only ONE store can be the "flagship" store. You can't have a second or a third.
post #20 of 85
I have no problem with an artist not allowing his songs to be sold as single tracks. If he believes it's a work of art that has to go together, so be it. If the Beatles say that side 2 of Abbey Road must be sold together, that's fine with me too. Leave it to the artist how he wants to sell his music (and leave it to the music stores whether they want to carry it).

But Dupri is pretty whacked out here. Hey JD - don't sell your stuff on iTunes - it's your choice. But don't tell Apple how to run its business - Apple's not telling you how to run yours.

If you're really so pure, why do you let radio stations play just one song at a time from an album, instead of the whole album straight through? That's defacing your art, isn't it?

I defer to the artist - even if their "art" is crap to the rest of us, it's still their vision. If they want to give up the sales they can make on individual tracks, let them. It's pretty funny when they get all preachy and mad at Apple, though. They're really criticizing their fans for not liking all their songs.
post #21 of 85
A quick search on iTunes yields plenty of results for Jay Z and JD- talk about hypocrites! Why don't you take your music down if you have such a problem with it?

"No, we are going to keep bashing Apple as the money rolls in..."

If I were SJ, I'd take their crap down anyways
post #22 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

If you're really so pure, why do you let radio stations play just one song at a time from an album, instead of the whole album straight through? That's defacing your art, isn't it?

I would love to hear his answer. Excellent point.
post #23 of 85
Of course, rappers like Jay-Z forget that the music industry was born and thrived under the era of 45's and long playing single '33's.
These guys are all about the money, and their music is not art.
In case, some rapper thinks I'm some white bigot, I'm not. I'm African American who loves GOOD music, not most of the crap out there that poses as music.
Jay-Z needs to be thankful for a iTunes, because without it, he will not get any profits, as people will once again go back to illegally downloading music.
I personally like iTunes, because I can guarantee I get good quality sounds, and also, I get to sample what is out there before I buy. I buy more music now than I have since the early 90s, thanks to iTunes.
Get over Jay-Z. Few people really are feeling sorry for you.
post #24 of 85
"Some people find it hard to understand my man Jay-Z's decision not to let iTunes break up his American Gangster album and sell it as single tracks," he wrote. "They say he's fighting the future and losing out on sales from fans who only want to download singles. But I say it was a stand somebody had to take in the music industry. Jay is speaking for all of us."


First off, these artists have to realize that they are the ones that made itunes so popular in the first place. Consumers where getting tired of paying full price for a CD and getting only one good song and the rest of the CD filled with skids that talk about how they have so much money and what they do with it. So start filling your CDs with good music and dont fill your album full of crap, and I wouldnt mind buying a full CD.
post #25 of 85
Anyway...

New flasgship Apple Store! Yes!
post #26 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfamy View Post

Here's an idea:

Why can't artists just dub an album that is made up of one track, so that when it is put on iTunes, the album runs together. If the artist truly wants a single entity to be purchased, then he/she should make their "glorious" creation how they want it to be sold. This master track could even be sold as a full CD in terms of price. If you create a split up CD from the get-go, you only open the door to people wanting to buy the specific sections.


The whole purpose of the track-by-track purchasing scheme is to give the customer a choice. Often times, artists have both good songs and filler material. Only if you like it, should you have to buy the filler. This is the primary reason for the 'Complete my album' function within the iTS. If the customer deems the album worth thier money after purchasing songs individually, then the customer can choose to endorse the work of the artist through the purchase of the entire CD. The artists need to stop pretending that they are almighty gods, and come down to earth. MAKE GOOD MUSIC, AND THEY WILL COME!

If they do that, then it sells at the price of a song. Besides, it's a load of crap. If they want any airplay for their music at all, it's got to be as individual songs. no one will play an entire album more than once, as a gimmick.
post #27 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

If they do that, then it sells at the price of a song. Besides, it's a load of crap. If they want any airplay for their music at all, it's got to be as individual songs. no one will play an entire album more than once, as a gimmick.

If they want airplay of "individual songs" then why do artists complain about spliting up albums in the first place?

Physical CDs are sold as split up into tracks. Why should iTS albums be any different. My point is that there should be consistency in the incessant bitching of the artists before they have a leg to stand on.
post #28 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post

Jay Z and Dupri are being ridiculous. Trying to say the individual songs must be purchased as an album is ridiculous. Some songs will be good and some will totally stink.

that is why "the industry" sold singles of popular songs for so long.

Apple takes the concept and makes it the best thing for THE CONSUMER!

Wow! Novel!

Now vivendi and one individual artist want to make things go back to the confusing and consumer beware no mans land that it was before.

Hey Dupri, apple already respects the "craft," that is why they designed a LEGAL download system that no only works, but gets people who would never buy your stuff to get to sample it from the comfort of their home and download the parts they like.

I would never buy a "trick Daddy" album, but I did download the "let's Go" song, because I was able to hear and download it on iTunes. If I had to buy the whole album for that song, I would go without.

These guys need to shut up and either withdraw their stuff quietly or respect Apple's "craft" which enables them to reach broader audience.

If they don't like it, fine withdraw, but shut up about your "craft" and trying to get others to follow your dubious lead. Why not just be honest and say that you just want to force people to pay more. Some people will pay you more and some people will steer clear.

Have any of you idiots ever listened to a concept album?

Pink Floyd's The Wall
Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime
My Chemical Romance's The Black Parade

Just like a movie, there will be some stand-out exciting moments (songs as opposed to movie scenes) and then there will be less interesting moments that are there to move the narrative along. The opening track to Operation Mindcrime isn't even an actual song, yet it sets up the 15 tracks to follow. Without it, the album loses quite a bit of meaning.

But you don't see them offering to sell you only the exciting moments of a film do you?

Sorry, but I think the artists should be free to distribute their art in whatever form they want not have it dictated to them by Apple or the "experts" commenting on this site. If the consumer doesn't like the way it is offered, they simply won't buy it.

And could everyone please skip the BS arguments that if it's not on iTunes people will just skip to the P2P networks to find it? A load of crap. If P2P is their inclination, they're skipping straight to that instead and using iTunes as a last resort.
post #29 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

And could everyone please skip the BS arguments that if it's not on iTunes people will just skip to the P2P networks to find it? A load of crap. If P2P is their inclination, they're skipping straight to that instead and using iTunes as a last resort.

Sorry your wrong.

See it all the time, people go to itms if its not there they download it from p2p. They go to itms first as they know its good quality and cheap. Its the easiest option ( which is why it is so successful )

The arguement is very far from BS.
post #30 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post

Looks like Verizon is pulling a semi-Apple (DRM free) move to shake it up. That should be seen as a desperate move to make up market share and become more appealing for some.

From what I understand, Versizon is only catching up with the market as it is over here in Britain. If you go into Carphone Warehouse to buy a phone, more often than not (in my experience anyway) the phone comes without a lock of any kind and without an modification to the OS. Of course there are exceptions, e.g. the iPhone (although O2 haven't changed the OS) and the SE V range, which are commissioned specifically for Vodafone.
post #31 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdasmith View Post

From what I understand, Versizon is only catching up with the market as it is over here in Britain. If you go into Carphone Warehouse to buy a phone, more often than not (in my experience anyway) the phone comes without a lock of any kind and without an modification to the OS. Of course there are exceptions, e.g. the iPhone (although O2 haven't changed the OS) and the SE V range, which are commissioned specifically for Vodafone.

I think that you will find that you only get unlocked handsets on O2 and Vodafone (unless they are network exclusive or branded) as all T-Mobile and Orange handsets are network locked. Even MVNO operator Virgin Mobile now network locks their handsets (But they offer free unlocking after a few weeks of use)
post #32 of 85
JD, Jay Zee... whatever. They have no clue. The record companies have had a gun to our head for years. We have been force-fed crap for years just to buy one or two good songs that we really want.

The solution is simple, produce a CD that is ALL good, and we'll buy it all.

They can crap on Apple all they want, but the iTunes model is a huge success. Their customers are happy, and the few that aren't can get their music any other number of way. Some legal, some not.

Whiny artists like that make themselves sound like complete and total knobs!
post #33 of 85
"We don't tell you to break up your computers into bits and pieces and sell off each thing,"

The difference is that songs have ALWAYS been sold as singles on 45s, cassettes and then CDs. Even Pink Floyd released a single off of The Wall.

These are people who don't understand their audience. Morons.
post #34 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by hybrid View Post

Guys, are there any Apple stores that you're NOT calling "flagship" stores?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/flagship

I don't think the Syracuse, NY (mini) store could really be called a flagship store... and unlike the rest of the mini stores, our nearest full size store's in Rochester, 80+ mi away.
post #35 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedicivalvole View Post

Sorry your wrong.

See it all the time, people go to itms if its not there they download it from p2p. They go to itms first as they know its good quality and cheap. Its the easiest option ( which is why it is so successful )

The arguement is very far from BS.

I have to second you on this one. If its on iTunes i'll buy it there. Its good, legal, secure and fast. If its not there (like Galactica Razor for instance)....well I have the following choices :

1./ wait until it comes to the Belgian ITS (one word : never)
2./ wait until it comes out on DVD in Belgium (in about four years and the version sold on Amazon.com is a region 1 DVD....)
3./ wait until it comes to the US ITS (two word : Jeff Zucker)
4./ download it via BitTorrent

I mean it is the media industry itself that forced me back to illegality on that issue.
post #36 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfamy View Post

Here's an idea:

Why can't artists just dub an album that is made up of one track, so that when it is put on iTunes, the album runs together. If the artist truly wants a single entity to be purchased, then he/she should make their "glorious" creation how they want it to be sold. This master track could even be sold as a full CD in terms of price. If you create a split up CD from the get-go, you only open the door to people wanting to buy the specific sections.


The whole purpose of the track-by-track purchasing scheme is to give the customer a choice. Often times, artists have both good songs and filler material. Only if you like it, should you have to buy the filler. This is the primary reason for the 'Complete my album' function within the iTS. If the customer deems the album worth thier money after purchasing songs individually, then the customer can choose to endorse the work of the artist through the purchase of the entire CD. The artists need to stop pretending that they are almighty gods, and come down to earth. MAKE GOOD MUSIC, AND THEY WILL COME!

Why can't you allow that an artist might have some artistic intent other than that each song should stand on it's own and work equally well regardless of content. Shouldn't the artist's intent have some value in figuring out how the work is going to be put out. Yes, most albums are crap beyond the first couple of songs. But a lot of people put a lot of work and thought into how an album of songs fit together. Some songs work best in context and serve to set up other songs. The album is a 40 years old plus format and people still want to express themselves through it.

When Apple starts to dictate how an artist can put out his or her music in this way then it is no better than the idiot record labels. Why can't some songs be designated as singles and others as album only. That would easily take care of both the artists' need for the integrity of the whole and the casual fans need to buy only one or two songs.

And Apple might sell more albums that way.
post #37 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by DestructoTex View Post

"We don't tell you to break up your computers into bits and pieces and sell off each thing,"

The difference is that songs have ALWAYS been sold as singles on 45s, cassettes and then CDs. Even Pink Floyd released a single off of The Wall.

These are people who don't understand their audience. Morons.

Yeah, but not every song. Pink Floyd released a single, not a series of 13 singles. If you want to talk historically, most albums yielded 2 or 3 singles at most. The rest of the material was available by buying the album. Try to get your facts straight before you start throwing around words like "morons."
post #38 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Have any of you idiots ever listened to a concept album?

Pink Floyd's The Wall
Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime
My Chemical Romance's The Black Parade

Just like a movie, there will be some stand-out exciting moments (songs as opposed to movie scenes) and then there will be less interesting moments that are there to move the narrative along. The opening track to Operation Mindcrime isn't even an actual song, yet it sets up the 15 tracks to follow. Without it, the album loses quite a bit of meaning.

But you don't see them offering to sell you only the exciting moments of a film do you?

Sorry, but I think the artists should be free to distribute their art in whatever form they want not have it dictated to them by Apple or the "experts" commenting on this site. If the consumer doesn't like the way it is offered, they simply won't buy it.

And could everyone please skip the BS arguments that if it's not on iTunes people will just skip to the P2P networks to find it? A load of crap. If P2P is their inclination, they're skipping straight to that instead and using iTunes as a last resort.

One would think the answer is simple; a concept album, as others have pointed out, could easily be made such that the entire group of 'required' tracks are seamlessly made as one track and therefore sold and downloaded as one unit.

I have not checked, but Classical music is in a similar situation, one section from a Max Bruch's violin concerto alone would not do justice to the entire work.

Whether such a grouped set of tracks can be priced as an entire album or only as a single track is a question I don't know the answer to and perhaps the iTunes model would not allow this at present. Does any one know the answer, can you buy a single movement from a classical album?

So I can see an argument for an entire album being made in certain situations, after all, you can't buy Chapter 3 of Harry Potter's 3rd adventure! Hey maybe that's the answer for this guy... RAP eBooks lol.
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
Reply
post #39 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by strask View Post

Yeah, but not every song. Pink Floyd released a single, not a series of 13 singles. If you want to talk historically, most albums yielded 2 or 3 singles at most. The rest of the material was available by buying the album. Try to get your facts straight before you start throwing around words like "morons."

Ah, semantics...

Yes, but they did release a single, which means just one track for sale by itself off of an album clearly intended to be listened to as a whole. One track. The "best track" as deemed by the record company or whoever. One track alone. The point stands that the precedent is there that even concept albums are not exempt from division by the record companies or the artists. It's disingenuous at this point for artists or record companies to say that it can't be done.

And last time I checked (which was 30 seconds ago), The Wall was available on iTunes for download as separate tracks, so yeah, that equates to 13 singles. The fact is that if you like a single song, chances are you'll like (or at least want to own) the entire album. That's why artists release singles in the first place.

Moron.
post #40 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by DestructoTex View Post

Ah, semantics...

Yes, but they did release a single, which means just one track for sale by itself off of an album clearly intended to be listened to as a whole. One track. The "best track" as deemed by the record company or whoever. One track alone. The point stands that the precedent is there that even concept albums are not exempt from division by the record companies or the artists. It's disingenuous at this point for artists or record companies to say that it can't be done.

And last time I checked (which was 30 seconds ago), The Wall was available on iTunes for download as separate tracks, so yeah, that equates to 13 singles. The fact is that if you like a single song, chances are you'll like (or at least want to own) the entire album. That's why artists release singles in the first place.

Moron.

Well, these aren't really semantics. I believe that artists should be given the right to determine that some songs are available as singles and others as album only tracks. If, on a rare occasion, one wants to have no singles, that should be their prerogative. Sales will most likely suffer. But Apple should be flexible. What skin off their back is it?

with regard to "The Wall" now being available a la carte, I would say that it's status as a whole and united work is now fully established enough that they can do such a thing freely and not feel they didn't get their point across. But maybe a generation from now they might think of that as a mistake. Who knows? But if contemporary artists are trying to be more ambitious about how they create music, I would think it would behoove us to support it, not dismiss it out of hand, even if every masterpiece will probably be counter-balanced by five pretentious, over-blown pieces of crap.

And a question, are you calling me a moron or is that how you are signing your name?
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