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Apple prices unlocked iPhones at 749 euros in France

post #1 of 48
Thread Starter 
Apple and wireless partner Orange will launch iPhone in France later today, offering customers three distinct pricing options for the handset, including a fully unlocked and carrier independent version for 749 euros ($1105).

Since the announcement of its arrival in France last month, iPhone has already attracted interest from more than 63,000 fans who have registered on Orange's iPhone website, the carrier said in a statement Wednesday.

The final iPhone launch of the year will kick-off at 6:30 p.m. local time, at which time OrangeÂ*will be holding late-night openings at 12 of its stores, including locations in Bordeaux, Lille, Lyons, Marseilles, Montpellier, Nancy, Nice, Nantes, Rennes, Strasbourg and Toulouse.

In Paris, Orange will also use the launch of the Apple handset to inaugurate its brand new store at 125, avenue des Champs-Elysées -- France's most prestigious and broadest shopping strip.

As the exclusive carrier for iPhone in France, Orange says it has developed a range of four "Orange for iPhone" plans designed to let customers make the most of the touch-screen handset that combines three devices into one -- a mobile phone, a widescreen iPod, and a Internet browser.

The entry level plan starts at 49 euros per month and includes 2 hours of normal talk time, 2 hours of late evening and weekend minutes, and 50 SMS text messages. The most expensive plan is priced at 119 euros and includes 8 hours of normal talk time, 8 hours of nights and weekends, and 1000 SMS messages.

All plans include unlimited access to email and the internet, as well as visual voicemail, which allows users to see a listing of their voicemails, decide which messages to listen to, then go directly to those messages without listening to previous messages.



Pricing for the iPhone handset itself will start at 399 euros ($589) for a version tied to the Orange network with a two-year service contract and an "Orange for iPhone" plan, or 549 euros ($810) for a model without one of the iPhone plans, but still tied to the network.

A third and final version will sell for 649 euros ($958) and not require an Orange plan or contract, though the carrier along with Apple is also charging a 100 euro ($147.5) fee, which brings the cost of a fully unlocked and carrier independent iPhone up to 749 euros (or approximately $1105).

Update: After the first six months, French law requires that unlocking be provided free to consumers. Therefore, after six months, the cost of a fully unlocked iPhone will effectively be 649 euros. Customers who purchase a locked iPhone from Orange in the first six months should also be able to walk into any Orange shop after the six month period and have their phone unlocked for free.
post #2 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


A third and final version will sell for 649 euros ($958) and not require an Orange plan or contract, though the carrier along with Apple is also charging a 100 euro ($147.5) fee, which brings the cost of a fully unlocked and carrier independent iPhone up to 749 euros (or approximately $1105).

Are you sure about that? I think 649 euros is the final price for a completely unlocked iphone.
post #3 of 48
Seems like a slightly odd and confusing set of plans.

Interesting that it is available with a plan and without and then non network specific, at a reasonable price compared to Germany.
post #4 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The entry level plan starts at 49 euros per month and includes 2 hours of normal talk time, 2 hours of late evening and weekend minutes, and 50 SMS text messages. The most expensive plan is priced at 119 euros and includes 8 hours of normal talk time, 8 hours of nights and weekends, and 1000 SMS messages.

Um, that's 2 hours of normal/evening talk time per day, right? I'm used to seeing these numbers per month.
post #5 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by astromac View Post

Um, that's 2 hours of normal/evening talk time per day, right? I'm used to seeing these numbers per month.

Nope that is per month additional minutes are 0.37 Euro ATAN. Quite stingy on the hotspots as well (10h unless you go for the 119er) and "fair-use" is capped at 500 MB, which isnt that much. A bit of wireless shopping on ITS and your data allowance is gone especially when you d/l an Itunes Plus Album....

The original posting is erroneous in the sense though that for 649 Euro you have to bring your own Orange SIM (ie existing contract you wish NOT to renew or pre-paid)

For 749 you get the beauty completely free/unlocked.
post #6 of 48
I believe we have the pricing correct, however the Orange press release is worded extremely poorly -- likely to hide the high cost of the fully unlocked phone. I'm going to continue to look into this, though I've just been told the Associated Press is also reading it and reporting it as 749 euros. FWIW, here is the original text from the Orange press release:

"With this range of dedicated offers, Orange is meeting iPhone customer expectations in terms of voice, sms & wifi, with prices ranging from EUR49 to EUR119 euros per month, and the iPhone available for EUR399.

Orange is also offering iPhone at EUR549 to customers who do not wish to benefit from one of the four "Orange for iPhone" plans and at EUR649, without a plan. The cost of unlocking the handset*is 100 euros during*the six months following the acquisition of the iPhone, regardless of the package chosen."

The whole thing is very confusing...

K
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post #7 of 48
I can't wait to hear the EU commission on this one... same unlocked product in Germany costing 250 Euros more than in France... ohhh there will be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth

Time for Apple to come clean on a global unlock strategy / pricing structure?
post #8 of 48
1100 bucks for a phone? Jeez Apple...
post #9 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jemster View Post

I can't wait to hear the EU commission on this one... same unlocked product in Germany costing 250 Euros more than in France... ohhh there will be a great wailing and gnashing of teeth

Time for Apple to come clean on a global unlock strategy / pricing structure?

Naa - Commission wont intervene or comment. Phone is available free, there is a price difference of 250 Euro - big deal. Now that is one of the advantages of the single market : Now I can take a High-Speed Train from Germany to France for a 10er each way and blast the 250 Euro delta on a night out in Paris

That, my dearest, is free market economy
post #10 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasper View Post

I believe we have the pricing correct, however the Orange press release is worded extremely poorly -- likely to hide the high cost of the fully unlocked phone. I'm going to continue to look into this, though I've just been told the Associated Press is also reading it and reporting it as 749 euros. FWIW, here is the original text from the Orange press release:

"With this range of dedicated offers, Orange is meeting iPhone customer expectations in terms of voice, sms & wifi, with prices ranging from EUR49 to EUR119 euros per month, and the iPhone available for EUR399.

Orange is also offering iPhone at EUR549 to customers who do not wish to benefit from one of the four "Orange for iPhone" plans and at EUR649, without a plan. The cost of unlocking the handset*is 100 euros during*the six months following the acquisition of the iPhone, regardless of the package chosen."

The whole thing is very confusing...

K

zzzzeeyyy aarrree froinch an' 'ave difficultees avec zee english language
post #11 of 48
Is it just me or are any of those possible prices listed above INSANE? Are people really paying well over a $1,000 USD for an iPhone? Seriously? In France? In Germany? Over $1K? Really?

I've never owned a cell phone outside of Japan, so all these plans and rates and data are so confusing to me. It's very simple here, at least it seems so in comparison.
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post #12 of 48
Apple's and Orange's
post #13 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

1100 bucks for a phone? Jeez Apple...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcollin3k View Post

Is it just me or are any of those possible prices listed above INSANE? Are people really paying well over a $1,000 USD for an iPhone?

No, they're only paying that price if they want the phone to be unlocked (presumably so they can use it with a different carrier.)

This comes as no surprise. Locked phones are less expensive because the carriers subsidize the cost from your monthly service fees. Take a look at other smartphones for comparison:

AT&T sells a Motorola Q Global for $200, locked with a 2 year contract. A Google search shows a $570 price to get an unlocked version of the same phone - a 185% price increase.

AT&T sells a locked Samsung Blackjack II for $150. Google shows unlocked ones selling for $400-500 - a 166-233% increase.

AT&T's price for a locked Blackberry Curve 8310 is $200. Unlocked, they go for $450-610 - a 125-205% increase.

So when Orange offers an unlocked iPhone for 750 - an 87% increase from the 400 they charge for the locked model, that actually sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

Even T-mobile Germany's 1000 price (a 150% increase from the 400 price for the locked model) is in-line with apparent industry standards.
post #14 of 48
I think France will see an influx of German unlocked-iPhone shoppers.
post #15 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

I think France will see an influx of German unlocked-iPhone shoppers.

Yup - that's the way we like to save money. Spend 250 Euro on a weekend in Paris to save 250 Euro on an iPhone. Vive la France and ze french and german friendship !
post #16 of 48
I'll be curious to see if we get the same price gouging in Canada when iPhone FINALLY gets here. Something tells me it'll be so...
post #17 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

1100 bucks for a phone? Jeez Apple...


Prices like that can cause the French youth to RIOT, oh wait...

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post #18 of 48
Man, I'm glad I'm not French.

Now what's all this about some phone thingy?
post #19 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by freelander51 View Post

Yup - that's the way we like to save money. Spend 250 Euro on a weekend in Paris to save 250 Euro on an iPhone. Vive la France and ze french and german friendship !

It's certainly a possibility for all those who live on the border.

From Freiburg to Colmar is a short 30 minute drive, from Trier to Longwy is a short hop, Strasbourg (F) can also draw a bunch of people, from Kehl most notably.

Furthermore, the workforce around these parts is very mobile, lots of French working in Germany, Switzerland, and vice versa too.

So I doubt that a "Berliner" (thanks JFK for that sausage reference) would make the trip to Paris, but a few thousand people, even from as far as Frankfurt, are liable to make the trip, which is both pleasant, and fast on [5] outside of the times during which the autobahn is congested.

And I would gather that the person you were responding to is from Belgium (from his moniker) so give him at least credit for knowing his European geography and the habits of European shoppers better than most outsiders. Brussels - Paris using the T.G.V. might be shorter, time wise, than you daily commute, and comes at less than 250 Euros...

[Last Edit] OK, I'm the dummy, BRUssell lives in Germany. Wait, that makes him even more knowlegeable!

[Last last Edit] Darn, you're from Belgium, and from your locational description, I'd say Flemish. So you should know that what BRussell is saying is true
post #20 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste View Post

Man, I'm glad I'm not French.

Now what's all this about some phone thingy?

Don't think you deserve to be
post #21 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by naas View Post

Don't think you deserve to be

I'm pleased to say that's true.
post #22 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by naas View Post

Don't think you deserve to be

I'm pleased to say that's true.

So...

You're pleased to say that "you don't deserve to be French" is true!
post #23 of 48
No Englishman deserves such a fate.
post #24 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacKraut View Post


And I would gather that the person you were responding to is from Belgium (from his moniker) so give him at least credit for knowing his European geography and the habits of European shoppers better than most outsiders. Brussels - Paris using the T.G.V. might be shorter, time wise, than you daily commute, and comes at less than 250 Euros...

[Last Edit] OK, I'm the dummy, BRUssell lives in Germany. Wait, that makes him even more knowlegeable!

[Last last Edit] Darn, you're from Belgium, and from your locational description, I'd say Flemish. So you should know that what BRussell is saying is true

No probs. German living in Belgium actually. The price i quoted was for the Thalys High Speed Train from Cologne to Paris

But you're right Brussels-Paris about an hour by train, Brussels-London 1h51' Brussels-Cologne 1h40 (no proper high speed link yet, complicated geography...) makes for uite good cross-border shopping...
post #25 of 48
And I thought we had it bad here in the US?

What kind of idiot would pay $1,100 (in US Dollars) for a phone? $400 is ridiculous. $1,100 is insane.

Also, I see why US carriers quote their usage time in minutes. 250 minutes per month sounds a lot better than 3 hours per month...
post #26 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by chameleon View Post

And I thought we had it bad here in the US?

What kind of idiot would pay $1,100 (in US Dollars) for a phone? $400 is ridiculous. $1,100 is insane.

Also, I see why US carriers quote their usage time in minutes. 250 minutes per month sounds a lot better than 3 hours per month...

$400 is probably what the phone is actually worth, so it's not ridiculous. The LG KE850 is going for $449.99. The Nokia N95 is going for $569.99.

The iPhone is by no means the most expensive phone. And, you still need to pay for your plan, or minutes, with the others. It's not as though you are saving anything, unless you want an expensive, complex, feature laden phone with a cheap featureless plan.

While you can choose a network, depending on whether it's CDMA or GSM, the truth is that none of the big networks are that much better overall.
post #27 of 48
Putting aside the uber fanbois who just love to be owned, nobody sane would buy the iphone for what it is at such a price, wherever it is in Germany or in France... And I am still amazed by the free advertisement pushed by the press for this product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ste View Post

No Englishman deserves such a fate.

Yeah rather stay an Englishman, their island syndrome, their francophobic "press" conditioning an idiotic aversion, between the others prejudices growing on the utter ignorance of some. They wouldn't want such kind of people anyway.
post #28 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post


Yeah rather stay an Englishman, their island syndrome, their francophobic "press" conditioning an idiotic aversion, between the others prejudices growing on the utter ignorance of some. They wouldn't want such kind of people anyway.

The problem is that the French portray themselves as being something they are not. It's irksome.

We have this problem in the US these days in particular, with our present, wonderful, administration. Most everyone is also soured on us too.
post #29 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

Yeah rather stay an Englishman ...

How can I ever be anything but an Englishman? Even if no longer choose to live there. Which I don't.

Thanks for your lucid thoughts on my homeland.
post #30 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamezog View Post

I'll be curious to see if we get the same price gouging in Canada when iPhone FINALLY gets here. Something tells me it'll be so...

Canada is not run by socialists, there will be no unlock option.
post #31 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

$400 is probably what the phone is actually worth, so it's not ridiculous. The LG KE850 is going for $449.99. The Nokia N95 is going for $569.99.

As an example...

The N95 is £374.95 unlocked via Expansys - http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=141579

The N95 8GB is £569.95 unlocked - http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=158600

The unlocked French iPhone at 749 is about 50 less than the N95 8GB in Europe.

Prices include VAT.

Melgross, if N95s are going for $569.99 in the US unlocked then that's actually cheaper than Europe even after tax. Street price for an unlocked N95 here though is about £250/$500 inc tax, not £374.95 at a more mainstream place like Expansys.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The iPhone is by no means the most expensive phone. And, you still need to pay for your plan, or minutes, with the others. It's not as though you are saving anything, unless you want an expensive, complex, feature laden phone with a cheap featureless plan.

Actually, as we've pointed out in many of the threads so far, many Europeans see it the other way round. It's a featureless phone with an expensive plan if you buy it today. If you don't need large data usage and Cloud access in the UK, arguably even at 749, you'd be much better off buying it unlocked and using a PAYG SIM from your favourite supplier and a cheaper £7.50 a month data addon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

While you can choose a network, depending on whether it's CDMA or GSM, the truth is that none of the big networks are that much better overall.

Not the case in Europe. We're all GSM here but some have very different plans, addons and freebies. Apple are bucking that trend by trying to lock in carriers and plans US style, and we don't like it.
post #32 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

As an example...

The N95 is £374.95 unlocked via Expansys - http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=141579

The N95 8GB is £569.95 unlocked - http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=158600

The unlocked French iPhone at €749 is about €50 less than the N95 8GB in Europe.

Prices include VAT.

Melgross, if N95s are going for $569.99 in the US unlocked then that's actually cheaper than Europe even after tax. Street price for an unlocked N95 here though is about £250/$500 inc tax, not £374.95 at a more mainstream place like Expansys.

Yes. The prices in Europe seem to be too high. This is the price from the J&R ad (big electronics dealer here in New York, but also have a web store) in the NY Times today.

Quote:
Actually, as we've pointed out in many of the threads so far, many Europeans see it the other way round. It's a featureless phone with an expensive plan if you buy it today. If you don't need large data usage and Cloud access in the UK, arguably even at €749, you'd be much better off buying it unlocked and using a PAYG SIM from your favourite supplier and a cheaper £7.50 a month data addon.


I'm sure some do see it that way. But, over here, many of these full featured phones so loved in Europe are seen as clumsy, and complicated.

Different tastes Many Americans are not interested in learning these phones, so they don't sell well here. The iPhone is seen as having the right combination of performance, features, and ease of use.

After all, the iPod has been criticized for years as being feature=free by some techies, but most people prefer that. Most don't use those features, so they don't care.

Different philosophies. Neither is better.

Quote:
Not the case in Europe. We're all GSM here but some have very different plans, addons and freebies. Apple are bucking that trend by trying to lock in carriers and plans US style, and we don't like it.

I completely agree with you there! I think what Apple is doing is bad in the long run. Higher profits now, but limiting the numbers of phones sold overall.

But, the one redeeming feature is the visual voicemail. Would companies re-do their software for that if they didn't have some time as an exclusive? I don't think they would. We could debate the value of that feature, of course, but it's still something to ponder.

By the way, you know me long enough to call me Mel.
post #33 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

As an example...

The N95 is £374.95 unlocked via Expansys - http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=141579

The N95 8GB is £569.95 unlocked - http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=158600

The unlocked French iPhone at 749 is about 50 less than the N95 8GB in Europe.

Prices include VAT.

It's not really fair to compare two models of phone like that - they have different features, different manufacturing/development costs, etc. It's well-established that a locked iPhone costs a lot more than locked phones of other models. So it stands to reason that the unlocked ones will also be expensive.

Based on my own searches, unlocked phones typically cost 120-300% more than the locked version of the same phone. Orange's pricing - an 87% increase - is cheap in comparison.
post #34 of 48
I dont think the price of the iPhone is that ridiculous - it is very full featured - it's MORE featured than an iPod and the 8Gb touch goes for nearly $600AUD...


The real outrage here is the plan pricing - 4 hours of talk + ONLY FIFTY sms?? What??? for 49 euros which is a lot! That is almost $100AUD and we get way more value from even a $30 plan.
post #35 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

1100 bucks for a phone? Jeez Apple...

... and more along those lines.

Do bear in mind that a euro, in Europe, is just about worth the same in every day life as a dollar in the US. Apple's pricing has always been in line with that, usually Apple prices are converted 1:1 from dollars to euros. I have my doubts about the additional 100 euros, if that really is true then it's still a bit steep, but not so extreme as converting the street price to dollars makes it sound. See if you would consider 649 dollars a fair price for an unlocked iPhone. It's just that the current exchange rate is becoming ridiculous, there were times when the dollar was worth about 20% more than the Euro, it has just about halved since then.

Of course, I wouldn't complain if Apple were to take the exchange rate more into account, but as others have shown, the prices for the device are not extreme, in the current European market.
post #36 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eelke View Post

... and more along those lines.

Do bear in mind that a euro, in Europe, is just about worth the same in every day life as a dollar in the US. Apple's pricing has always been in line with that, usually Apple prices are converted 1:1 from dollars to euros. I have my doubts about the additional 100 euros, if that really is true then it's still a bit steep, but not so extreme as converting the street price to dollars makes it sound. See if you would consider 649 dollars a fair price for an unlocked iPhone. It's just that the current exchange rate is becoming ridiculous, there were times when the dollar was worth about 20% more than the Euro, it has just about halved since then.

Of course, I wouldn't complain if Apple were to take the exchange rate more into account, but as others have shown, the prices for the device are not extreme, in the current European market.

Or if you live in the UK they convert then put 30% on top *twats*
post #37 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by the cool gut View Post

Canada (...removing BS political commentary...) will (have) no unlock option.

Even if you did unlock, there's no competing network in Canada using compatible (GSM) technology, so an unlocked phone is pointless for domestic customers.

And currently, even overseas travellers are out of luck. (Rogers doesn't have any published policy for providing unlock codes to customers for any reason whatsoever on any of its current phones.) But if you're lucky, Rogers will have roaming agreements in place allowing you privileged access to exclusive rates. If you're travelling to France, for example, then you can take advantage of wonderful roaming options from their partner Orange, with rates like $2.00 per minute for all incoming calls, $2.00 per minute to call back to Canada, and $1.00 per minute to call local numbers in France.
post #38 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I'm sure some do see it that way. But, over here, many of these full featured phones so loved in Europe are seen as clumsy, and complicated.

Different tastes Many Americans are not interested in learning these phones, so they don't sell well here. The iPhone is seen as having the right combination of performance, features, and ease of use.

I think perhaps Europeans also use more of those features so learn them and use them regularly enough that they become second nature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

But, the one redeeming feature is the visual voicemail. Would companies re-do their software for that if they didn't have some time as an exclusive? I don't think they would. We could debate the value of that feature, of course, but it's still something to ponder.

I don't think it's very hard to implement. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't just a case of Apple providing an XServe or three to the carrier that acts like a mail server with the carrier only having to link that in with their existing voicemail system. Visual Voicemail works over a data connection IIRC, not the voice line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shamino View Post

It's not really fair to compare two models of phone like that - they have different features, different manufacturing/development costs, etc. It's well-established that a locked iPhone costs a lot more than locked phones of other models. So it stands to reason that the unlocked ones will also be expensive.

Do you honestly think an iPhone costs more to manufacture than an N95 8GB ?? I don't. The touch screen is perhaps expensive but then so are the other bits in the N95 that the iPhone doesn't have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shamino View Post

Based on my own searches, unlocked phones typically cost 120-300% more than the locked version of the same phone. Orange's pricing - an 87% increase - is cheap in comparison.

I think that is only because the locked iPhone is unusually highly priced to begin with. Work back 300% from the unlocked iPhone price and perhaps you'll arrive at a reasonable price for a locked iPhone comparable also with other similar phones.
post #39 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

Do you honestly think an iPhone costs more to manufacture than an N95 8GB ?? I don't. The touch screen is perhaps expensive but then so are the other bits in the N95 that the iPhone doesn't have.

You're ignoring my point. A locked iPhone costs $400 in the US, when other locked AT&T smartphones cost $150-200. If a locked iPhone costs twice what other smartphones cost, it stands to reason that an unlocked one will cost twice what some other unlocked smartphones cost.

All the discussions of "an iPhone contains 20 cents worth of used pinball parts, so Apple is ripping you off" were beaten to death when the device was first introduce months ago. If you want to continue that thread, please take it over there.

In this thread, the complaints have specifically been about the price difference between the locked and unlocked models. It is unreasonable to expect a phone with a much higher base-price to not also have a much-higher unlocked price.
post #40 of 48
Quote:
I completely agree with you there! I think what Apple is doing is bad in the long run. Higher profits now, but limiting the numbers of phones sold overall.

Agreed.

I'm out. £35 for data this and doo-dah that. I won't use it. So, I want a plan or the option to PAYG.

I don't make £10 worth of calls or texts a month. But I'd pay extra for an unlocked phone. But I'd tell Apple to go Fek themselves at £1000.

Currently it's £269. Plus 35x18 months. That's an extra £700. Take off the amount I won't use? £500. That's alot. That's another two iPhones. Or half an iMac. Or...an upgrade to CS3 for me.

It's a touch greedy from o2 on the plan. They have plans much cheaper than this for other phones. I don't like contracts. I like PAYG. But I may consider a contract at £10. I don't want a bleed on my Bank account. I have enough direct debits as it sodding well is.

Apple. o2. Try harder.

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