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AT&T chief confirms 3G iPhone on the way - Page 2

post #41 of 118
11/29/07 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 View Post

3G is highly overrated. People buy 3G phones because they think it is so much better and then complain about the ridiculous costs and the terrible battery life of their phones..

I agree as I have 3G, and it is not all that much better, or faster.
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post #42 of 118
11/29/07 at 9:10am
Quote:
But I'm very disappointed by the lack of "substantial upgrades" to the iPhone. I'm beginning to think all of the talk about great new features and upgrades was a bunch of marketing BS. Cripes, they can't even seem to get e-mail into landscape mode, a very simple improvement. The only noticeable software addition has been a way for Apple to make even more money off me.

The phone has only been out for 5 months. What other phone has had significant software changes in 5 months?

I think Jobs will announce the major software changes at MW08, which will essentially be the iPhone 2.
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post #43 of 118
11/29/07 at 9:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREB View Post

I agree as I have 3G, and it is not all that much better, or faster.

It's not just the phone that needs to have 3G, it also has to be within range of a cell tower that can utilize the hardware. If you don't think 3G is much faster than 2.5G then you aren't near a proper tower.
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post #44 of 118
11/29/07 at 9:12am
Saying 3G (875K) isn't much faster than Edge (~100K) is not true. You must not have 3G.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREB View Post

I agree as I have 3G, and it is not all that much better, or faster.
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post #45 of 118
11/29/07 at 9:15am
http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/
(You have to zoom to City level before you can check 'Show 3G Coverage')

I have recently gotten a USB modem from AT&T and there is 3G coverage here. This is not a big city by any definition. The top speed has been 130Kbytes per second (that's 1Mbps). Not stupendous but I couldn't stand dial-up anymore. And since it's USB, I can use it at home plugged into a Mac mini with Internet Sharing or travel with it and my Powerbook.

The modem does UMTS (3G, 3.6Mbps) and HSDPA ("3.5G", 7.2Mbps), so I'm a tower upgrade away from even better speeds.

Hopefully a late '08 iPhone will use HSDPA capable chipset, unless that speed is an even greater power drain.
MWSF '07: Steve Jobs hates my wallet and my mobile carrier.
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MWSF '07: Steve Jobs hates my wallet and my mobile carrier.
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post #46 of 118
11/29/07 at 9:20am
So, when they do come out with this 3G, what happens to us iPhone owners with current Edge technology? Do we loose data capability or will AT&T just have both systems in place, the older Edge and newer 3G so current iPhone owners still get what they paid for and newer owners just get the faster service??

It is not like they are going to turn off Edge folks are they?

tj
"Come out from among them and be ye separate"
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"Come out from among them and be ye separate"
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post #47 of 118
11/29/07 at 9:21am
GSM - 2G - 9.6Kbps
GPRS - 2.5G - 140Kbps
EDGE - 2.75G - 472Kbps
UMTS - 3G - 3.6Mbps
HSDPA - 3.5G - 7.2Mbps

(speeds are theoretical maximums in bits per second; they'll always vary with distance/obstructions/interference)
MWSF '07: Steve Jobs hates my wallet and my mobile carrier.
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MWSF '07: Steve Jobs hates my wallet and my mobile carrier.
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post #48 of 118
11/29/07 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

If iPhone sales weren't flat on black Friday they sure will be for the rest of the holiday season. What bad timing to make that announcement! That just shows how AT&T was a bad choice for a carrier. Who would buy an iPhone at this time now? And I agreee it will be for the same price and with 16G.

This will have absolutely no impact on sales as everybody with half a brain already knows that improved models are coming. The current iPhone is a pretty good deal as is and 3G doesn't offer up enough to make it as hot a requirement as you seem to think. As others have alluded to there are other features that a iPhone 2 could have that would be more compelling and in fact worth waiting for.

The very fact is that I'm waiting on a new iPhone, not so much for 3G. as I'm for a machine with other capabilities/enhancements. As you can see from this thread many others are of the same persuasion. The desire for an iPhone 2 is there just don't believe that 3G is a driving factor for everybody.

Dave
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post #49 of 118
11/29/07 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrmtrk View Post

I've been an Apple owner/fan since 1981 and have owned dozens if not hundreds of Apple products. But I'm very disappointed by the lack of "substantial upgrades" to the iPhone. I'm beginning to think all of the talk about great new features and upgrades was a bunch of marketing BS. Cripes, they can't even seem to get e-mail into landscape mode, a very simple improvement. The only noticeable software addition has been a way for Apple to make even more money off me.

It's only been out for a few months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markb View Post

First: Why do you think this small comment is getting press? They know anything with Apple will get clicks/coverage and negative articles are 2x as good cause Apple haters are looking for any foible, and Apple fans want the product.

Second: Current iPhone is awesome, hard to believe people would wait another 8 months (more likely 10) for product that is more or less the same (1.5x effective network speed and GPS in case you have no clue where you are in the world).

The people I've heard about trying it have said they often get 3x effective network speeds. on 3G But it does vary, it's too hard to do a like-for-like comparison because it's often through different carriers, meaning the towers can be in different locations.

I'm waiting for the next rev for that and several other reasons. I'm hoping to get 16GB and to find out the specifics of what developers will be allowed to do. And I'd like to find a way to test my reception quality, I'm bummed there's no good way for me to borrow a device to test at my home.
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post #50 of 118
11/29/07 at 9:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry767 View Post

Odd that this sort of announcement would come from outside Apple Inc. don't you think? Will Mr. Stephenson feel the wrath of Steve over this announcement?

But Jobs already that it was coming and at times said that the chipsets will be ready "next year", so why is this a problem?
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post #51 of 118
11/29/07 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

Saying 3G (875K) isn't much faster than Edge (~100K) is not true. You must not have 3G.

I very much do have 3G—not on an iPhone, but on the latest model of another AT&T phone. The problem with AT&T is consistency. I have used my phone next to two different friends iPhones, and we did not notice that much difference. Having recently switched to AT&T in expectation of the supposed iPhone nano (no interest in the size of the current iPhone) both my wife and I can say, without equivocation that AT&T is the worst mobile phone provider we have ever experienced. This coming from someone who started with the beloved Motorola "brick" and having gone through many a mobile phone service provider.
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post #52 of 118
11/29/07 at 9:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamino View Post

If the reason for this was to satisfy Europe, then why would the announcement come from AT&T?

I'm also very skeptical of any iPhone announcement that doesn't come from Apple. AT&T says "coming real soon" and Apple says "when we can get chipsets that fit our power requirements, hopefully by the end of next year". I think AT&T is announcing their own wishful thinking here.

AT&T is not Apple. Apples motivation in developing a 3G iPhone is a different one, than AT&T.

It's completely irrelevant who made this announcement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 View Post

3G is highly overrated. People buy 3G phones because they think it is so much better and then complain about the ridiculous costs and the terrible battery life of their phones...

That's exactly what Apple wants to change. Data-costs have been much higher over here before the very good (not perfect) iPhone tarifs in Germany.
I think, when Apple adds 3G capabilities, it will be part of their contract with the carriers to add 3G as a standard to the iPhone-tarifs at the same prices.

Apples iPhone-contract with the providers actually make data over the air payable.
Quote:
I would love to see some figures on how many people who have a 3G phone actually use anything on the phone that require 3G..

That's what the iPhone is about
I don't use most of the data-features of my RAZR, because the software is a mess. The iPhone makes it easy to use online-features.
Quote:
from what I hear from my Euro friends, once they had their 3G phones for 2 or 3 weeks, or whenever they received their first bill, their opinion on 3G changed drastically.

The iPhone already made data much cheaper!
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post #53 of 118
11/29/07 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The phone has only been out for 5 months. What other phone has had significant software changes in 5 months?

The flip side of that is what other phone has been released with such an incomplete software stack? Lets face it there is much missing from iPhone especially some under the hood stuff. Bluetooth being one thing that kinda burns my ass. I've even left a note to this effect on Apples feed back site. the lack of disk mode or a finder is also a big negative.

In many ways Apple is lucky that what they did deliver works as well as it does.
Quote:

I think Jobs will announce the major software changes at MW08, which will essentially be the iPhone 2.

Could be but I think they will wait for February and have a big dog and pony show in conjunction with the SDK release. If there is not a plan or a release of a new version of Mobile OS/X, that addresses these issues, I may end up just waiting for Android.

Dave
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post #54 of 118
11/29/07 at 9:57am
Quote:
The flip side of that is what other phone has been released with such an incomplete software stack?

How do you really describe incomplete? No one phone has everything. The iPhone has some features that most other phones don't. Other phones have some features that the iPhone doesn't. Some phones have a lot of features that are difficult to use. Which one can you really describe as complete?

Quote:
In many ways Apple is lucky that what they did deliver works as well as it does.

Its not luck that was the whole point. Apple by design delivered what they felt would work the best.

Quote:
Could be but I think they will wait for February and have a big dog and pony show in conjunction with the SDK release.

Its conjecture but it makes the most sense to me. Jobs has said the SDK will be released in Feb, we've heard rumor that some select developers have already gotten the SDK. So I surmise that Jobs will introduce new software and the SDK at MW08. They will show apps from developer who received the SDK early. Then launch the SDK wide soon after.
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post #55 of 118
11/29/07 at 9:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Idiots = People that were going tomake a purchase but are now not going to make a purchase based on this information and then get pissed at Apple when a 3G model isn't a available in early 2008.

No. Idiots = People that wait in line for hours to buy an 8 Gig device for $600.
And then whine when the product drops $200 less than 3 months later.
You have a 16Gig iTouch out now - it won't be 10 months before an iPhone at 16 Gigs comes out.
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post #56 of 118
11/29/07 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

No. Idiots = People that wait in line for hours to buy an 8 Gig device for $600.
And then whine when the product drops $200 less than 3 months later.
You have a 16Gig iTouch out now - it won't be 10 months before an iPhone at 16 Gigs comes out.

They are both idiots. Early adopters that bitch and moan about a price drop in technology need to get bitch slapped as well as the people that bitch about Intel releasing new processors too quickly.
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post #57 of 118
11/29/07 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

How do you really describe incomplete? No one phone has everything. The iPhone has some features that most other phones don't. Other phones have some features that the iPhone doesn't. Some phones have a lot of features that are difficult to use. Which one can you really describe as incomplete?

Gee I thought I was pretty clear on that.
1.
They need to fully implement the BlueTooth stack. This will directly impact what can be delivered on the iPhone when the SDK is released.
2.
They need to implement disk mode to allow management of the Flash store. Or provide a finder and a set of applications that can access the flash store.
3.
Fix up all the apps so that they can be used landscape mode.

There are a bunch of other issues that allude to a software product released ahead of time.
Quote:

Its not luck that was the whole point. Apple by design delivered what they felt would work the best.

Not at all! The evidence is pretty clear that they had a crash program in place to get the product out the door before the delivery dead line. When they actually delayed the last Mac OS/X release that should have told you something right there. The iPhone, as the software is today, looks like a cut and slash effort to ship what works and hope that nobody really takes notice until the Mobile Mac OS can be updated.

That is why I say Apple is lucky. The current OS is good enough that people haven't dissed it to much for its glaring short comings.

Dave
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post #58 of 118
11/29/07 at 10:15am
5+ hour battery life. Highly comical.
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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post #59 of 118
11/29/07 at 10:16am
Cell phone companies always try to find ways to extend your two year contact. Call them about anything and they will want you to add a feature that, oh by the way, extends your contact to two more years. If the service is okay people go along because they need the service from somewhere unless they are anticipating on getting a phone from another provider. You won't be able to upgrade your phone during your two year contract without paying for both phones. Steve will price the G3 at $399 and higher for more memory. This is how things have always bee. There's no reason for cell providers to change it. There're not in the business of being "nice".
Cubist
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post #60 of 118
11/29/07 at 10:31am
Quote:
Gee I thought I was pretty clear on that.

I can see that those are features you want. But I don't know if I would call the iPhone incomplete because of their absence. Many phones do not have these functions.

I agree a more open access to bluetooth is needed, disk mode is needed. I think SMS and Mail need to be landscape but I don't think every app has to be landscape.
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post #61 of 118
11/29/07 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I agree a more open access to bluetooth is needed, disk mode is needed. I think SMS and Mail need to be landscape but I don't think every app has to be landscape.

There are rumours/reports that Disk Mode will be included in an upcoming version.

I would like to see Mail and SMS/MMS combined. In other words, I can create one message that is sent to email recipents as well as other cell phones. MobileMail would format the messages accordingly depending on the recipient type and even break up long SMS/MMS messages to accommodate standards... but I doubt they will do this.
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post #62 of 118
11/29/07 at 10:39am
No way. Too many othter phones rely on Edge. Their 3G network is not anywhere near as large as their Edge network. I don't see Edge going anywhere anytime soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amishman View Post

So, when they do come out with this 3G, what happens to us iPhone owners with current Edge technology? Do we loose data capability or will AT&T just have both systems in place, the older Edge and newer 3G so current iPhone owners still get what they paid for and newer owners just get the faster service??

It is not like they are going to turn off Edge folks are they?

tj
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post #63 of 118
11/29/07 at 11:03am
Quote:
The iPhone, as the software is today, looks like a cut and slash effort to ship what works and hope that nobody really takes notice until the Mobile Mac OS can be updated.

What evidence do you have of this? I bought the iPhone in its second week of sales and everything worked fine. Over these months the only app that needed a lot of stability improvement was Safari. It used to crash frequently. Now after firmware updates I rarely notice it crashing.
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post #64 of 118
11/29/07 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 View Post

3G is highly overrated. People buy 3G phones because they think it is so much better and then complain about the ridiculous costs and the terrible battery life of their phones...

I would love to see some figures on how many people who have a 3G phone actually use anything on the phone that require 3G.. from what I hear from my Euro friends, once they had their 3G phones for 2 or 3 weeks, or whenever they received their first bill, their opinion on 3G changed drastically.

These are great questions and observations. I don't expect that you'll get any real answers, though! \

(I have not read ahead.... so, let me say in advance that I stand corrected if I am wrong about that!).
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post #65 of 118
11/29/07 at 11:16am
Why do people think that having a 3G phone increase the price of your bill. If you have a unlimited data plan, it's a set rate. Whether you have 3G or not. Am I missing something. Unless they were tethering when they shouldn't have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

These are great questions and observations. I don't expect that you'll get any real answers, though! \

(I have not read ahead.... so, let me say in advance that I stand corrected if I am wrong about that!).

Use 1) Skype
Use 2) Vtap
Use 3) Web surfing
User ) Tethering
Use 5) Video streaming
Use 6) Music streaming

My bill has been what I though it would be.
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post #66 of 118
11/29/07 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight View Post

3G is not overrated. Skype and Vtap are the two main programs I use with 3G. Web surfing is very fast. Video streaming from Cingular video actually works with out the beach ball of death. Google Maps works much better with 3G. I could continue, but I'll just say 3G is not overrated. Battery life isn't terrible. It all depends on how often you like to charge your battery.

OK, per my previous post, I stand corrected! :-)

But: Has anyone compared speeds of 2.5G on the iPhone with 3G on other smartphones. The reason I ask is, I have found maps, Youtube (surprisingly), email, and stocks to be plenty fast when there are 5 bars. Content-rich websites are slower, no doubt, but slightly better than dial-up.

What do you mean by "battery life isn't terrible?" What is "not terrible." Currently, the iPhone's battery life is good.
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post #67 of 118
11/29/07 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It's not just the phone that needs to have 3G, it also has to be within range of a cell tower that can utilize the hardware. If you don't think 3G is much faster than 2.5G then you aren't near a proper tower.

Isn't that true of 2.5G too?
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post #68 of 118
11/29/07 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I can see that those are features you want. But I don't know if I would call the iPhone incomplete because of their absence. Many phones do not have these functions.

I agree a more open access to bluetooth is needed, disk mode is needed. I think SMS and Mail need to be landscape but I don't think every app has to be landscape.

I agree that what may be "required" features to some are irrelevant to others, and Apple has made the call on what's in and out.

But what makes little sense is the absence of basic iPhone features/functionality that are universal to all other phones in the European market, not just smart phones (eg. the well known SMS limitations for a market that is a huge and growing users of text messaging). Tariffs aside, it's preventing me from getting one, and has resulted in one mate returning his. This stuff seems so basic and important enough to some of us as to to limit its utility and I'm surprised Apple hasn't addressed it.
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post #69 of 118
11/29/07 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

the lack of disk mode or a finder is also a big negative.

Which model phone has a disk mode and the equivalent of a finder?
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post #70 of 118
11/29/07 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

.... need to get bitch slapped ...

What is that?
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post #71 of 118
11/29/07 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Which model phone has a disk mode and the equivalent of a finder?

The iPhone will as soon as the 3rd party apps are done............ LOL
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post #72 of 118
11/29/07 at 11:35am
The battery will last a day and a half on my Blackjack, with modest Web/Youtube (Vtap) use, with Skype open, Messenger open, AIM open, and Yahoo chat open, with maybe 2 hours of actual talking...all with a 3G signal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

OK, per my previous post, I stand corrected! :-)

What do you mean by "battery life isn't terrible?" What is "not terrible." Currently, the iPhone's battery life is good.
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post #73 of 118
11/29/07 at 11:41am
It's all well and good having the full scaleable Internet in yer ass pocket. And the faster the better eh? But wait a minute - there's something missing. Oh yes, a flash player, the tiny element that makes viewing the Internet a full experience.

Apple and other participating networks - up the speed of the handset by all means. But Apple and Adobe? With all the love shared between Mac users and Adobe design products? Jeees, it's just a teeny weeny flash player, it can't be that hard to support surely!!

Sorry people I digress. OK, for me to part with my hard earned cash. I want 3G and flash player compatible, then the iPhone will truly come to life.
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post #74 of 118
11/29/07 at 11:42am
Quote:
But what makes little sense is the absence of basic iPhone features/functionality that are universal to all other phones in the European market, not just smart phones (eg. the well known SMS limitations for a market that is a huge and growing users of text messaging).

I see what you are saying. There are some things that there is no technological barrier to doing now.

I'm now texting more than I ever have. So I'm fairly new to it. I've seen fiends of mine sending multiple SMS. I can see the convenience of it. What I also see what they had to do to send the messages was very un-Apple like. Will just have be patient and see what happens in the near future.
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post #75 of 118
11/29/07 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by powderdust View Post

It's all well and good having the full scaleable Internet in yer ass pocket. And the faster the better eh? But wait a minute - there's something missing. Oh yes, a flash player, the tiny element that makes viewing the Internet a full experience.

Apple and other participating networks - up the speed of the handset by all means. But Apple and Adobe? With all the love shared between Mac users and Adobe design products? Jeees, it's just a teeny weeny flash player, it can't be that hard to support surely!!

Sorry people I digress. OK, for me to part with my hard earned cash. I want 3G and flash player compatible, then the iPhone will truly come to life.

Then write it! Adobe apparently doesn't care enough about Flash to create a viable version for cell phones or OS X, much less the iPhone.

I personally have no love for Java or Flash. I'm glad Apple isn't muddling the iPhone with such crappy software.
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post #76 of 118
11/29/07 at 11:47am
Quote:
Oh yes, a flash player, the tiny element that makes viewing the Internet a full experience.

Unless for some reason you have to visit flash only sites. Honestly for the most part you don't miss flash on the iPhone. The only part you miss out on is flash video. But On2 is a crappy crappy codec. I think people who only build flash sites with no option of HTML aren't doing us any favors.
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post #77 of 118
11/29/07 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I see what you are saying. There are some things that there is no technological barrier to doing now.

I'm now texting more than I ever have. So I'm fairly new to it. I've seen fiends of mine sending multiple SMS. I can see the convenience of it. What I also see what they had to do to send the messages was very un-Apple like. Will just have be patient and see what happens in the near future.

Outside corporate use, I'd say substantially more texts are sent than emails in the UK especially and (probably Europe) by the average punter, and the iPhone really is targeted at these non-corporate customers.

To many of us, what Apple has done is similar to limiting a user's ability to email just one person at a time (and having to re-type the message again for each and every recipient given the lack of cut & paste). It's quite puzzling; I have to think it was done by design.
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post #78 of 118
11/29/07 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan View Post

Outside corporate use, I'd say substantially more texts are sent than emails in the UK especially and (probably Europe) by the average punter, and the iPhone really is targeted at these non-corporate customers.

To many of us, what Apple has done is similar to limiting a user's ability to email just one person at a time (and having to re-type the message again for each and every recipient given the lack of cut & paste). It's quite puzzling; I have to think it was done by design.

You can do all of this by email without the SMS cost.

See http://www.iphonefaq.org/archives/97158

Send a message to your friend's mobile-phone-number-based email address and it'll get delivered as an SMS text message. Attach a picture to that email and it'll get delivered to your friend's mobile phone as an MMS message. Voila! You now have an MMS messaging equivalent. If only there was a nice and convenient compilation of wireless carriers' mobile phone email addresses. Hmmm. You mean like this?

Alltel = xxxxxxxxxx@message.alltel.com
AT&T = xxxxxxxxxx@mms.att.net
Boost Mobile = xxxxxxxxxx@myboostmobile.com
Cingular (AT&T) = xxxxxxxxxx@mms.mycingular.com
Einstein PCS = xxxxxxxxxx@einsteinmms.com
Sprint = xxxxxxxxxx@messaging.sprintpcs.com
T-Mobile = xxxxxxxxxx@tmomail.net
US Cellular = xxxxxxxxxx@mms.uscc.net
Verizon Wireless = xxxxxxxxxx@vzwpix.com
Virgin Mobile = xxxxxxxxxx@vmobl.com
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post #79 of 118
11/29/07 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry767 View Post

Odd that this sort of announcement would come from outside Apple Inc. don't you think? Will Mr. Stephenson feel the wrath of Steve over this announcement?

Yes, at&t is probably on thin ice with The Steve. I'd be plenty ticked if this happened with my product announcement.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #80 of 118
11/29/07 at 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

If iPhone sales weren't flat on black Friday they sure will be for the rest of the holiday season. What bad timing to make that announcement! That just shows how AT&T was a bad choice for a carrier. Who would buy an iPhone at this time now? And I agreee it will be for the same price and with 16G.

Steve has got to be hopping mad over this... "I gots to kick me some Ma Bell butt!"

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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