The Wii: does it do it for you? How much longer until it's passed by? - Page 3

Word. Except that should be Core 2 Quad OC'ed 3+ghz Liquid Cooled, and dual 8800GTX 640mb each. DirectX10 for Hellgate London, UT3, NFS:ProStreet. All at 32x SuperSampling SuperTransparency AntiAliasing. Full shaders and details. 1920 x 1200 resolution.

That'll teach the WiiTards!!! muah ah hah hah aha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

The PS3 and X360 cost USD900 in India for the base models. /finger You can import one and it is cheaper.

A 2.2GHz Core 2 duo with a 8600 NVidia card with 1GB of RAM and 250GB HDD costs the same...

Nintendo hasn't bothered with officially setting up shop or advertising the Wii. It is available with few retailers. I hope they make an entry into the market with the price on par with international sales.

Curious, is that with or without the screen?

Another reason to pass on the 360 and PS3:


That number for the PS3 surprised me, you can run a fairly beefy PC off of that PSU.




True, it's not required, but that's like saying that buying a BlueRay or HD-DVD player and hooking it up to a SDTV is getting full value out of your purchase. Or like having a PC with an 8800GTX and using it with an 800x600 monitor.

Being surprised is a good reason to double-check. You didn't post a link, but the data was wrong anyway.

Here's some real-world measurements.

http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-356-2.htm
http://www.digitaldisplacement.com/?p=1907

No reason to worry about a few hundred watts for the gameplay duration. Turning off a couple of lights already offsets the console wattage. If you used these devices to stream media from the network 12 hours a day, that could make power a factor in picking the device, but you can't stream from the Wii and the consumption figures of the other two do not differ that much.

Here in cold conditions heating is on most of the year. Whenever it is, we can use any electronics we want, as much as we want, and due to the magical device called the thermostat, none of the watts turning into heat go to waste.

This goes in reverse for anyone using air conditioning, obviously. So stop playing those games and killing the Earth, and go enjoy your warm outdoors instead!

This might come across has stating the obvious, but I think 30+-year-old females are infinitely more mature than the audience of teenage/young-20s males that buy Halo and GTA. It is foolish to confuse "maturity" with "violence".


Such confidence in your numbers and absolutely no sources or evidence for them. I have a bajillion dollars!


They might not be, but games content certainly is. Throw all the wonderful drama you like into cutscenes, at some point the player has to involve himself in some asinine and/or violent way. (FETCH ALL THE PIECES TO THE MACHINE! or KILL ALL THE ENEMIES!)

The only "mature" parts of games are adult-oriented films incorporated into them.


We? Who is "we"?

I don't want a stupid, rehash FPS to suck me in for 5 hours at a time. I want to play something fun for 30 minutes after I come home from work and before my wife gets home and we go out and ride our bikes. I play Age of Empires III (Asian Dynasties, now) when I want a change of pace, but that is just as "childish" as me playing Monkey Ball. It's a little more involved, but there's nothing of real value to it aside from the value one gets from entertainment.

Also...
Call of Duty - DS
Call of Duty - Wii


Why would I feel any less childish playing a modern FPS?

There is certainly a difference here. You place personal importance on how cool your games are, when your games are not cool. There is no such thing as a cool video game.


Are you sure you aren't a self-parody?

Is cussing really important?


Gameplay doesn't change in Mario/Zelda games?

I MEAN LIEK AMRIO 29 AM I RITE GUYS!?!?!?!?


If you're going to go ad-hominem, at least be clever.

First things first, turning of a few INCANDESCENT lights might offset those consoles and it would still require three sources be off. I guess it is fun to be alone in the dark with your game console for some "mature" fun.

However some of us run fluorescent lights everywhere we can in the house. These typically use only 15 watts so we would basically have to shut off the entire house to get that offset.

Now I mentioned some other example, 150+ watts is very large when running in the vehicle. If we are in the travel trailer/RV I can run the Wii on the batteries for significant amounts of time without having to start up the generator. It is exactly why people are taking out the tube televisions and running LCD televisions. You can save space, energy, weight and still have a slightly better result than before.

Nick

RVs aside, the PS3 is looking less attractive at "a few hundred watts" and a big ass GeorgeForeman-grill looking thing. Xbox360 and overheating still happening?

I feel more comfortable with, no doubt, ~500w rated power supply (actual consumption less) in which my tuning of the PC is *hand-fine-optimised* to have maximum thermal efficiency. Overclocking is good for the planet!! muah aha ha ha ha
(I'm not being too serious)


Interestingly in Unreal T. 3 it's all based on "corporate" factions battling each other with "respawners". Nobody actually "dies". While it sounds dumb, it actually is much less disturbing then when I tried Ghost Recon and it was KILL ALL THE BAD MEXICAN REBELS WHO ARE BAD BECAUSE WE ARE AMERICA AND THEY ARE BAD..!


Back in the day there was Leisure Suit Larry. Ah. Magnifique


There's a lot of killing even in Age of Empires 3, no? But I get what you are saying. Fear: XP2 Perseus was quite a big rehash. I stopped after a few hours. Fear: XP1 (Extraction Point) was really quite good if you play it for horror/ thriller/ art-gore elements. Finished it, quite cool. More for the fans of the weird-freaky-asian-little-girl kind of movies.

With UT3 I can't connect online so I play campaign with bots or warfare(capture teh nodes) with bots. I don't like deathmatch, it's just running and jumping and moving your mouse in a million different directions at the same time. Warfare is cool because there are strategic elements. Capture-the-flag is very interesting too because it reminds me of playing "catch" or "tag" when I was a kid. I don't do CounterStrike or HL2 much nowadays. Crysis and HL2:Ep2 didn't capture my interest.

But yeah, I understand. I want my "fix" of about a few hours then I need to get on with my life, like, um... posting on AppleInsider forums, or going for a run (I get charged up and hyped after all the killing and explosions) \


You just stabbed many a marketing hack right in the heart there. Heh


Here on the equator all heat is bad heat. Surprisingly we use a lot of water heaters though. For showering! Go figure. I guess I could reconfigure my whole study area so that I can have a massive fan blowing through my PC, Mac and cooling myself too.

Seriously though, it's a multi-billion dollar market, if you can design air conditioning and electronics heat etc. affordably re-cycled to generate electricity or channel heat where needed eg. cooking, water, etc. Integrated with solar. Hence I say, WTF WITH THE OLPC. THEY NEED TO WORK ON THIS ENERGY THING. That and medical care for us 3rd-worlders. Oh great and wonderful Westerners with gifts from heaven.

We have Macs and Starbucks now. Can't you all invent something that will store the heat from the air-conditioning so that when needed I can comfortably wash and dry my ass after... well, you get the idea...

Yes, there is a lot of killing in AoE, that's the whole point, to build up a civilization to be effective at killing the other civilizations around you. I am not against video game killing; I just do not see it as the manifestation of "maturity". It's just a gameplay element like collecting star bits or coins (or roadies/fans in Rock Band, THE WII KILLER ).

I was going to buy an XBOX 360 Premium for my gf this X-Mas because she's been mentioning OrangeBox lol But now I'm scared of all the hardware problems and returns I've been hearing about.

I think she's just into OrangeBox because thas what people at work are talking about. They are mostly guys of course.

I think she might love the Wii though. She loves Hello Kitty and everything like that. But then she might be disappointed if she can't play XBOX Live. I don't know what to do.

I remember I used to play Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six etc and she wanted to play them but didn't really get into them. I think mostly cause her computer couldn't handle those games.

I'd hate to blow $400+ on an XBOX 360 and have her run into problems.

The Wii has free online service.

How many of them own Wiis? How many of them develop for Nintendo products?


Maybe so but that's only because there aren't that many good games for the Wii. There are loads of great games for the XBox 360 though.


I agree it's about how well a game is implemented but even if it was the best game in the world, I'd never in a million years buy Nintendogs and I doubt there's any straight male over the age of 15 who would. There are certain boundaries that gameplay cannot break down.


It is a beefy PC. It has 8 processors and a very fast GPU. Not to mention all the PS3s are connected and trying to figure out the meaning of life, the universe and everything. You'll be thankful when you get the answer.


I would actually do that though. Resolution isn't a big issue for me. I don't think it's a huge waste any more than seeing a hot girl on the internet at 640x480 vs 1920x1080. What matters is how big the horse was.


See I don't agree, I find 30+ women to be pretty immature by my definition of the word maturity. Women are emotionally far more immature than men.


So about £4.50 at today's exchange rate - I have about the same. What other sources are needed than the ages put on most Wii games? What about all the people who say about buying a Wii for their kid or the people who say 'my wife and I'. If you are married and/or have kids then yeah the Wii is for you. It's time to sit back and play some relaxing, simplistic games because your life is either officially over or it hasn't even started.

My 8 year old cousin has a Wii because he's a kid.


'We' means the people who have the right opinion in this thread. You would address us as 'you'.


But you want a stupid rehash of a rehash of a rehash (x39) to suck you in for 5 hours? Also you still make the mistake that FPS games are somehow all the same. Mario games have common gameplay and characters - run, jump, collect stars. FPS games vary quite dramatically from one game to another.


That's terrible. I don't realize how lucky I am sometimes.


Play one and you'll find out. They provide a more intense experience that kids games don't offer.


I disagree. You could just as well say there's nothing on this Earth that can be defined as cool. Everything is boring and meaningless and pointless. If a game makes your heart beat faster and draws you into the experience then it is cool (it takes more than just that though before you start calling Wii games cool).


F*ck yeah. It actually is to me. I've played some games and when I heard the dialog, it ruins the experience when they say things that people wouldn't in real-life. You think that a marine would say 'oh look at that silly sausage, he's gone and got himself caught in an ambush. Let's mosey on down and help the poor blighter'?

To you that might be ok because you have already made up your mind that games are a complete waste of time so whether they have the best or worst production values is irrelevant to you. This is not the case for everyone and I'm sure it doesn't apply to all your forms of entertainment.


LSL 7 was one of the best games ever made.

Not intense graphics but definitely mature.


Blowing someone's head off with a sniper rifle is not the same as running at a spinning star. That's like saying kissing is the same as getting laid.


I think new models might have had the issues sorted. I know someone who had to return his twice and was without the console for about a month. But then I know someone else who hasn't had any problems. Both of them still love the 360 and the Orange Box.


It's a good set of games - if she hasn't played any Half-Life 2, it's amazing value for money. The portal game is very interesting. Of course it's just another rehash FPS game though.


She'll be disappointed with the Wii. The graphics in some games aren't even as good as a PS2. If you want to save money, get a PS2. If you want the best next-gen console, get an Xbox 360 and hope it doesn't fail. You can also consider the PSP. There isn't a great selection of games but there is a handful of excellent titles and it's so easy to pick up and play.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaa. I completely agree with you. A game such as COD 4 does just that to me. It makes you curse when you get killed, and cheer when you successfully knife someone!

p.s.

Groverat:

Even though the wii may have COD, the graphics are much less beautiful and realistic compared to the graphics of the 360 or PS3.

And it is absolutely stupid to ignore that violent games are not for young kids and targetted toward an older audience.


Be that as it may it is targetted toward an older audience. The Nintendo targetted toward a younger audience. I enjoyed Lion King and Pixar movies long before I had kids. I never thought they were anything BUT movies targetted toward kids even though parents and adults also enjoyed them.

That we can't even get basic agreement on that says a whole lot more about you than the actual discussion at hand.

You let your underage kids watch R and X rated movies? Hey, the gore and sex is are just special effects and plot elements...

Marvin:


Anecdotal evidence is the worst evidence.


FPS games do not vary. For god's sake, what does the acronym "FPS" stand for? It could be argued that Wolfenstein 3D is more similar to Crysis than Super Mario Brothers NES is to Super Mario Sunshine for the GC.


I do play the occasional FPS. They are intense, but is "intense" a synonym for "mature"?


Why are Nintendo games held to a different standard?


What games, specifically?


No, it's not. Not at all.


Rich Myster:


What does this matter with regards to this mythical "maturity" issue Marvin is discussing?


vinea:


Older, sure, but how much older? GTA-type games are marketed to young teenagers to low 20s; all male of course. Is there a more immature age range?

Thanks for the link, my info was from a preview of the PS3 before it came out. Still 10x what the Wii draws, and I know that PS3s have been tested to draw 200W while Folding@Home (if anyone is doing that with their PS3). I also wasn't being entirely serious that power consumption was a deal breaker for the PS3/360.




I was that age myself once, and spent the last two decades in the military, dealing with kids (and I do mean kids) of that age on a daily basis, so I agree with that assesment 100%! \

It doesn't. Graphics were previously discussed, and i believe that better graphics gets you much more immersed into the game. Of course, this depends on the type of game.

Isn't completely fabricated evidence the worst evidence? Anecdotal is surely second worst at most.

Anyway, it only takes plain logic and experience, no evidence is really necessary to see the line between mature games and kids games. Unbiased Sony executives can see this:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/pc-gaming/s...e-k-179882.php


FPS = first person shooter. Wolfenstein is nothing like Crysis because one is a Nazi dungeon shooter and the other is set on a vast island with water and frozen wasteland with aliens and has a level of intensity and involvement that even Wolfenstein does not offer.

Mario Sunshine offers nothing more intense or involving than Mario Brothers. It's the same old avoiding a giant flower and jumping on or punching mushrooms and turtles.


"intense" is a by-product of a mature game. It is not a by-product of a kids game. But that depends on what level of emotional maturity you are at. If you get excited by a kids games then you are emotionally immature and an inexperienced or casual gamer.


They aren't but my definition was too broad that Wii games could have been included. Just watching the two types of game (Mario vs CoD) side by side defines the boundary clearly enough as it takes into account a person's individual level of maturity.


Believe it or not, one example is one of the Harry Potter games. I played that once years ago because I'm open to new types of games. I played it for about an hour or so and I just couldn't take the cheesy dialog and magical crap that was throughout the whole game. The gameplay sucked too but if it hadn't, the dialog would have put me off.

It's not really an example simply because I can see that games are divided into well-defined target markets. Adult games do not have childish dialog or scenarios because this just wouldn't be accepted by the mature gamer. Kids games have no adult content whatsoever.


It is because you are equating an intensely violent act with one suitable for children when they are very far from the same.


You can't seriously be suggesting that Nintendo games that are marketed to people below that age range are anywhere close to the same or above the level of maturity as ones marketed to that age range.

You seem to be saying that 30+ year olds might enjoy Mario and 20+ would enjoy CoD 4 and since 30+ year olds are generally more mature than 20+ year olds then Mario is not an immature kids game. Somehow that doesn't quite add up.

Marvin:


Completely fabricated evidence isn't evidence at all. Anecdotal evidence is technically true, just without merit.


You are quoting a Sony executive as evidence about their rival? Should I quote a Nintendo executive as some kind of refutation?
In what sense is this supposed to be compelling?

So we've got, in your corner, anecdotal evidence and the aspersions of a rival. You really need to learn how to make good arguments, because you're failing at just about every conceivable level right now.


Have you played Super Mario Sunshine? It's a fair question, because if you really don't see a distinction I can't help but believe that you haven't played it.


Intensity is nothing but jangled nerves and increased pressure. Warioware can get extremely intense, but I am hard-pressed to think of a less "mature" game. Hell, Wii bowling can get pretty intense if you're playing against someone else. I can't think of a more intense level of gaming than the speeder-jump section on Battletoads NES. Battletoads


Oh, indeed!


So your argument also involves that old chestnut, "It is because it is!"? Astounding.


You played a Harry Potter game and you were put off by magic and cheesy dialogue? Why did you even play a Harry Potter game? Do you know what Harry Potter is?


Playing a video game of any kind is not like having sex in any way at all. A kid playing Postal 2 is in no way like a kid having sex. There is absolutely no correlation. Even the most shrill of moral nannies that hate videogames would make such an amazingly stupid argument.


Nintendo markets games to people older than young-teen->early-20s. Go watch a Wii/DS commercial. It's got people from little kids to grandparents. For instance, Brain Training is a huge success and aimed directly at real adults (not immature boys). (Do you see what I just did? I just made an argument and then I backed it up with real evidence of that argument's veracity!)


Why doesn't it add up? It doesn't add up because you do not know how to formulate an argument. You hop from thought to thought, without any conception of just how asinine the formulation of those thoughts might be.

So innocent is your inability to create coherent thought you actually admitted that, in one argument, you had to literally hold Nintendo games to a different standard because your own arguments killed themselves otherwise. Not only that, but you admit it freely as if that is how rational adults make arguments.

Grover,

You're really quite persistent in your feeling that the WIi is not marketed towards a younger demographic.

I went to Gamestop's website and looked at the titles that are shipping on the Wii and the ESRB ratings. Do you know how many games shipping fro the Wii have a rating of "M"? Two. A few "T" but about 90% are rated "E".

What more evidence do you need?

The most intense video game experience of my life, easily, was marikoart on an N64 in college. We'd go to war on that thing; it was far more intense than when we played Bond.

Clearly, mariokart is more "intense" and "mature" than any fps.

I can make sweeping anecdotal arguments without supporting evidence too. Wheeeeeeee!

backtomac:

The Wii is marketed towards essentially all demographics. Its appeal is universal, which is why it is such a tremendous success. I have already linked to a commercial for a Nintendo game that is aimed directly at an older market. Hilarious that you guys pretend it is just for little kids when they have ads for successful games aimed directly at older groups.


What does "E" stand for? Everyone

The mistake in logic you are making is that an "M" rating is aimed at an older market.
Perhaps another mistake is thinking that 13-year-olds qualify as either "older" or "mature".

I GIVE UP!

Just to jump in with my 2 cents here...

I bought a Wii around 3 months ago and this quote pretty much sums up how I feel about it:


I'm not looking for something to spend hours a night trying to beat. I want something that's fun for a few minutes when I get home from work and then put away and get on with my life. Some low-commitment entertainment in the evenings.

I think a lot of the Wii's success IS the fact that it can be enjoyed by anyone. My girlfriend is totally happy to play a round of Wii tennis for 30-45 minutes, but not nearly as likely to sit around and play Halo with me for 5 hours. Likewise, when I've had people over for parties at my place, the Wii is an instant "party game" whereas no one's clamoring to play a FPS for the entire evening.

My parents came to visit not long ago and had a blast with it. My Mom is much more likely to play Wii tennis than Halo and I think a big reason is the intimidation factor. The controls for so many FPS games have a steep learning curve. A novice fumbles around while being blown to bits over and over again and it's more frustrating that enjoyable. On the other hand - almost anyone can point the Wii-mote at the screen and press 1 or 2 buttons. It has a very small learning curve and much less frustration for the casual user. Nintendo understands that and as a result has captured a market that the other makers were ignoring.

If that's what you're looking for the Wii totally fits the bill, regardless of age.

Their biggest rival is Microsoft and yet they don't suggest the XBox 360 is targeted at kids. Wonder why that would be.


Yes <- Caution: that may be completely fabricated evidence.

I actually have played it before (not for long as it was the same as all the other Mario games). I've played all the Mario SNES games and most of Mario 64. All the same gameplay mechanics to me.


You and I clearly have different definitions of what intense means.


Well yeah, think about it. If a game is targeted to everyone - in other words children as young as 3 - how can it possibly be that intense?

Let me put it another way: would you want to watch Saw 4 and would you allow children to watch it? If your answer is no then you admit that some content is too intense for younger and possibly older viewers mainly female. The people who aren't the target audience for Saw 4 *are* the target audience for Nintendo - i.e the emotionally weaker/immature members of society.


Nope, it means the argument involves factors that are not universally quantifiable.


I was led to believe that Harry Potter could be enjoyed by young and old alike. I was also testing graphics performance as it used the UT2k engine. This was a few years back.

Why are you surprised though? Are you finally admitting that some games/franchises are designed solely for children?


Sex?? See what I was saying about keeping your sex life out of it. I said that blowing someone's head off with a sniper rifle is not the same as collecting a spinning star and by saying that, was like equating kissing to sex. I didn't equate gaming to sex. Anyway, what you do with your Wii-mote is your own business.


That's what we've been saying except you seem to want to cover the hardcore gamers too. Nintendo don't target people from little kids to grandparents, they target little kids and grandparents, possibly parents (though all male parents I know go for PC, PSP or PS2 gaming). People in between don't like Nintendo products.


Actually you made a contradiction. You said it's not targeted at immature boys while also saying it is targeted at little kids.


It doesn't add up because you contradicted yourself.


Careful, Groverat will pick up on the fact you admitted you just made an anecdotal argument, which means everything you say is irrelevant.


Clearly not, judging by the amount of people who would never buy one.


Maybe you were asleep (understandable since you're not a hardcore gamer) when it was mentioned numerous times that the target market for Nintendo is 0-15 and 30+. Brain Training obviously isn't for kids because it's one of the most boring games ever invented but it isn't for hardcore gamers either.

Brain Training is for people who are on the downward slope of life. They've had the kids, the career and now they are just decomposing so to help prevent losing their marbles, they waste hours doing simple infant-level mathematics. Now sure you may say that an OAP is more mature than an 18 year old but a game consisting of infantile sums is hardly a mature game so it doesn't add up, so to speak.

Trouble is that when you do want an in-depth gameplay experience, it's not there. The PSP, PS3 etc have games with short levels. In fact very few games have levels that take longer than 30 minutes. if they do, they have a save point somewhere in the middle.

With an FPS game, you could be an agent on a cargo ship trying to infiltrate a Russian enemy on one level for 30 minutes. The next level you could be in camouflage in the jungle trying to track down a device from Columbian drug lords.

Wii tennis is just tennis all the time. The only variation you get is different court surfaces. So you wouldn't want to play it for more than 30 minutes or you'd get insanely bored with it.


I know, I know, anecdotal again.


That's right, the majority of people in the 15-30 age group just aren't looking for that type of entertainment.

They rejected this as evidence. /shrug That's why I haven't bothered with any further facts because it simply would get ignored because it doesn't fit their odd world model.

I was going to stay out of this argument, but that is among the most ignorant and self-centered things I've ever read on the internet.



violence != maturity

\

It's quite the irony that Marvin shows a fairly low level of maturity in most of his posts in this thread.

I mean, the idea that if you're, I don't know, not into, disturbed by or whatever the blood, gore, bad dialogue, and derivative plot of your standard horror movie you're immature and emotionally weak...... it's pretty laughable.

Plus, that post seems to indicate that Marvin thinks women are inherently weaker and emotionally immature.

Let me tell you, you'll never get laid in college with that attitude.

A shop was playing the running demo of Beowulf game for PS3. Quite disturbing really. I didn't even want to see the film. Robert Z. My god, what happened to him? After BackToTheFuture and Contact....

Women like to be treated like shit. Trust me. Next time you see your girlfriend or wife, slap her, and she'll want you, bad.

wow...guess who needs it then? What a Fu_ktard.

My mum plays a lot of Mahjong now on her iBook G4. Keeps her sharp, helps her keep up the cooking, cleaning, driving for the family..... muah ha ha ha ha ha.

Nope, didn't work. Dammit! Now I'll be spending time with Mr. Hand for the next few months.

New to the internet are you? Also it only becomes an argument when people reduce it to name-calling, so please don't do that, just allow the grown ups to discuss the subject rationally.


Violence requires maturity.


Again, that depends on what your definition of maturity is. I would say that if you are the type of person who plays kids games then you are immature. If a grown man comes onto an internet forum and says they enjoy Mario Galaxy and then calls me immature, then sorry but that's where the irony is.


Only someone who is emotionally weak would find that funny.

How can you not see what you are saying? You are questioning that if someone is disturbed by something then they are emotionally weak. You just *defined* emotionally weak.


And you seem to be indicating that you ignore common knowledge. Women are genetically the emotionally weaker sex. It doesn't apply to all women but I'm generalizing.


Long past college I'm afraid and I had more success at getting laid than the emotionally weak individuals who ended up in dead-end marriages playing with their Wiis (that is not a generalization btw).


You know Angelina Jolie's in it right?


I need to practice infant-level mathematics to engage in a conversation with you guys? Is that to lower myself to your level or something? So that instead of actually discussing a subject, I can simply call you a name and feel good about myself?


Don't you mean Mrs. Hand?

That's the most hilariously wrong thing I've ever heard


OK, so you have no clue what emotionally weak means


Well, I'm pretty sure my sisters, with there respective PhDs in biochemistry and molecular biology, would disagree with you.

As someone with a degree in epidemiology, I know that I disagree with you. Would you care to point out the genetic epidemiology studies that support your point? How, pray tell, is 'weaker' defined? Since this is such common knowledge, surely you can easily go to pub med and pull the papers right up!


Interesting. You're general attitude sure does a pretty good imitation of a fifteen-year-old

Marvin:


Because it is not a popular way to attack the XBox, that's why. This doesn't change the fact that it is unwise to use employees of rival companies as sources in this kind of discussion.


So a sidescrolling jumper is the same as running around in 3D and shooting things with water cannons and flying on water jets?

I won't really argue, but Wolf3D has more similar mechanics to Crysis than Mario Brothers NES has to Super Mario Sunshine.


Yes, I have a definition that is technical and correct and yours is unnecessarily selective with the sole purpose of backing your argument.


intense - \\in-'ten(t)s\\
1 a: existing in an extreme degree <the excitement was intense> <intense pain> b: having or showing a characteristic in extreme degree <intense colors>
2: marked by or expressive of great zeal, energy, determination, or concentration <intense effort>
3 a: exhibiting strong feeling or earnestness of purpose <an intense student> b: deeply felt

What about any of that is incompatible with an "E" rating?


Make an effort to explain it. You cannot just say "the Wii isn't as cool, because it isn't as cool". I am sure that this is true for some narrow group in society, but there is no reason for us to restrict this conversation to just those that reject Nintendo as childish because they wish to think it.


When did I ever argue that some franchises were not designed solely for children? Barbie Adventures are not in any way meant for people older than 10. Zelda and Mario games are designed for a much larger age range.


Who are "hardcore gamers"? If you define "hardcore gamer" as "doesn't own a Nintendo product" then it would make sense, because it is defined specifically to suit your own argument.

What category does someone who owns a PS3/XBox 360 and a Wii fit into?


That individual game is aimed at adults, not immature boys. There are plenty of Nintendo games aimed at immature boys.


If you make the argument that Nintendo does not make games with intensity then all I need is a single example to disprove it. Anecdotal evidence works fine when the question is so dramatic and categorical. Any "All X do/do not Y" statement is easily eviscerated by evidence even as weak as anecdotal evidence.

And in the meantime, you provide absolutely no evidence of any kind except anecdotal evidence. It is something when my weakest argument is as strong as your strongest argument, eh?


What is this amount? The Wii cannot stay on shelves long enough to test this hypothesis of yours. Meanwhile, I play Orange Box and Mario Galaxy in the same week and wonder why I haven't split in half to fit in your asinine categories.


Where do you get this information?


What are the characteristics of an "in-depth gameplay experience"?


Far Cry - Wii
Resident Evil - Wii
Call of Duty - Wii
Manhunt 2 - Wii


Explain this, because it is beyond me how this could be offered as a statement worth considering.


Beautiful.

So you're a grown man and you think playing a Sony/Microsoft-brand video game is objectively cooler than playing a Nintendo-brand video game?

I AM A VERY IMPRESSIVE MAN! I HAVE SEX WITH MANY WOMEN!

It worked for me.

You drive a Hummer and buy lots of products with 'X-TREME' in the name, don't you?