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First year Apple TV sales fall below expectations - Page 4

post #121 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post


Does anyone really dispute that aTV hasn't sold well and so far has been a missed opportunity for apple?

I think right now the only thing working in apple's favor is that nobody else has really shipped a box that's a better alternative for watching internet video on a TV screen. Is there anything else out there that is selling better than aTV?

If nobody else has captured the market niche, then the opportunity has not yet
been missed. The fact that nobody else has done it, in a world with many consumer
electronics companies competing, implies that it is not that easy and that Apple's
effort, while immature, was ahead of its time.
post #122 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally View Post

Then your beef is with the music industry execs who mandate that DRM be in the music in the first place....

What does that have to do with Apple iTunes music being incompatible with other non-Apple music devices? Buy an mp3 anywhere else and it'll play on any other machine - as bought! And that includes iPods!
post #123 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

The biggest issue isn't the AppleTV or the content providers.

It's Apple.

The content providers want a DRM system that allows time limited playback. Fairplay doesn't do that so they all use Microsoft DRM.

In the UK there's no content at all except for some US derived shows, mostly dross. There's no movies at all. And of course they charge us more here than the USA for less!

Apple is it's own worst enemy here.

Just to be clear--are you saying that the content owners and their various existing legal agreements are not what dictates what countries Apple can sell TV shows in? Apple is the one deciding what markets a show can sell to?

And are you saying Apple is the problem for not letting the content holders make DRM even WORSE?

As for time-limited, if you mean movie/TV rentals... what service currently does that well? Easily, painlessly, and cross-platform? I can't think of one. Are you sure Apple isn't at work on doing rentals right? I'd love it if they did.
post #124 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

The biggest issue isn't the AppleTV or the content providers.

It's Apple.

The content providers want a DRM system that allows time limited playback. Fairplay doesn't do that so they all use Microsoft DRM.

In the UK there's no content at all except for some US derived shows, mostly dross. There's no movies at all. And of course they charge us more here than the USA for less!

Apple is it's own worst enemy here.

So you WANT exploding content?
Seems like Apple's on my side here.
post #125 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer75 View Post

The only place i've ever heard of NBC wanting to raise thier prices was from apple. I have yet to see NBC actually do it. They offer their shows for free on thier site or on Amazon for a fee, but not for the $4.99 price mentioned by apple. Which makes me wonder if it was even true.

NBC execs have admitted that they wanted to try raising the price on Heroes to see if people would pay more although I forget what the number was.

I assume they haven't done it because of the backlash that happened when the news of a possible price increase got out. And I'm sure they realize that if they went to Amazon and raised prices on the switch, it would hurt Amazon and make it difficult for them to get established - the whole story would be about how Amazon charges more for TV episodes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Which makes a point against DRM, not Apple.
Again... what was Apple supposed to do? Offer no content?
And if you say 'license their DRM', you're just delusional about how capitalism works.

You just answered your own question. Apple definitely could license their DRM if they wanted, it seems ridiculous to say that their only alternative is to offer no content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

...and it DOES do 5.1 surround sound. The iTunes Store doesn't sell content to take advantage of these yet, but iTunes will sync real 5.1 to AppleTV, and AppleTV will play it properly.

That link uses an example of a wav test file. Is there any evidence of anyone successfully playing back a video file with 5.1 sound from the appleTV? I can't find one. And using that method, wouldn't the movie not be able to play back sound correctly in quicktime or iTunes, since it's a raw format?
post #126 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

Steve Jobs believes that he knows what is best for all of us. I don't think anything will ever change his mind.

This forum is filled with people who use Apple products, but don't drink the Kool Aid. SJ must think there's something wrong with us that we can't see the beauty of the path he has laid before us. To him we're that 5% who'll never be satisfied regardless of how realistic or practical our suggestions may be.

Neither Steve Jobs nor Apple ever thought Apple TV was best for "all of us." In fact they called it an experiment. It's a first step toward something that can BECOME great. A new option for obtaining video that will ultimately have great selection and flexibility--just not overnight. What's wrong with making that new option happen? It doesn't hurt us to have another option. It hurts us if Apple forces us to use it before it's ready. Apple has not done so. Apple never promoted AppleTV as being more than it is. It's a step on the way--and Apple alone can't make the journey quicker. They are fighting content owners who are stuck in the past.

AppleTV is not of much use to most people right now, and Apple never thought differently. Some people will find value in it now, but most people--like me--will only find value in the later steps that follow. I'm certainly not going to complain about the early steps that I'm not forced into using, when I know later steps will be much appreciated.
post #127 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

That link uses an example of a wav test file. Is there any evidence of anyone successfully playing back a video file with 5.1 sound from the appleTV? I can't find one. And using that method, wouldn't the movie not be able to play back sound correctly in quicktime or iTunes, since it's a raw format?

The point is that the hardware supports true surround sound, in spite of the common misunderstanding. You're right that there's no content that can (easily) be used that way. AppeTV is about downloads, and surround-sound content--like high def--is yet to come.

I'm sure Apple can add any necessary technical capabilities to the software--even dual-format audio in downloads--as long as the hardware is ready. The holdup is simply the content I think.
post #128 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

you are clearly wrong and clearly a troll

Let me get this right-Your username is Walter Slocombe and I'm the troll??!?!!?!?? LOL
You spot it; you got it.
post #129 of 223
While being a little disappointed that so little recent effort appears to have gone into A-TV, I think the concept is brilliant and I use mine constantly. Combined with EyeTV it offers in my view the best way of watching TV shows/Movies recorded on a Mac, linking the computer to the living room. I think a few aspects could be thought of better, but overall I think it's a wonderful product. One detail I like is that you can interrupt the film at any time and jump back into the same spot you left from - something some DVD players (but not all) offer.

What could be thought of better is how to network it better with a hard disk. I have a nice collection now of recorded material which fills >500 Gb - no problem for an external hard disk. But to always have to run that via a computer is a little silly, why not enable A-TV to read straight from an external disk connected to its USB port? Also, why not allow it to update podcasts on its own without the computer in between? It's networked after all!

But otherwise it's a great product, and very stylish too. I hope more effort will go into it.
post #130 of 223
Apple could've bought and still could buy TiVo for a relative bargain-basement price. Imagine the headlines.

Apple TV with TiVo would fly off the shelves, even at $800 per box with a monthly subscription fee. Instead, TiVo will probably die a slow death and Apple TV will die within two years.

What a shame!
post #131 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

What does that have to do with Apple iTunes music being incompatible with other non-Apple music devices? But an mp3 anywhere else and it'll play on any other machine - as bought! And that includes iPods!

Selling unprotected mp3's is pretty recent.

Before that, other sales were just in a different DRM scheme that also had compatibility issues. Not long ago, you couldn't buy a major label song that would play on any machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

So you WANT exploding content?
Seems like Apple's on my side here.

I'd like rentals. Unless you can explain a way it would be possible to do that without "exploding" then yeah, I think I do want "exploding" content, just with terms that are reasonable. Obviously, rental content needs some way to ensure that I just don't keep the file forever, and it's not like netflix where there's a disk to mail back.
post #132 of 223
Again- Does anyone know what the USB port on the back of AppleTV is for?
Apple can you hear me?
post #133 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Your username is Walter Slocombe and I'm the troll??!?!!?!?? LOL

Oh, don't take it personally. After all, an anagram of his name is "latecomers blow."
post #134 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

Steve Jobs believes that he knows what is best for all of us. I don't think anything will ever change his mind.

This forum is filled with people who use Apple products, but don't drink the Kool Aid. SJ must think there's something wrong with us that we can't see the beauty of the path he has laid before us. To him we're that 5% who'll never be satisfied regardless of how realistic or practical our suggestions may be.

Unfortunately for us Apple doesn't need us any more. Even if we all abandoned the platform Apple would continue to be immensely profitable selling gadgets and "cool" Macs to people with limited technical knowledge.

Trying to get Apple to make products for us is like asking Microsoft to release Office for Linux.

Awww.... Apple doesn't love us anymore.
Hell hath no fury... and all that I guess.

Luckily the other 95% are pretty f-ing thrilled with the direction Jobs has taken the company (including out of probably bankruptcy) and the products they're offering.

Write when you find that company that meets 100% of your needs. Bet they'll be around a long time.
post #135 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

I'd like rentals. Unless you can explain a way it would be possible to do that without "exploding" then yeah, I think I do want "exploding" content, just with terms that are reasonable. Obviously, rental content needs some way to ensure that I just don't keep the file forever, and it's not like netflix where there's a disk to mail back.

Sorry...Contexts got mixed. I was referring to audio content. I'm in the rental school for most video myself.
post #136 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

The point is that the hardware supports true surround sound, in spite of the common misunderstanding. You're right that there's no content that can (easily) be used that way. AppeTV is about downloads, and surround-sound content--like high def--is yet to come.

I'm sure Apple can add any necessary technical capabilities to the software--even dual-format audio in downloads--as long as the hardware is ready. The holdup is simply the content I think.

The hardware DOESN'T support true surround. The DTS wav files work because the AppleTV INCORRECTLY thinks it's playing a standard wav file, thus passes the data unmolested through the digital audio port. It's up to the user's receiver to CORRECTLY process that signal and actually extract the 5.1 audio.

Compare that with AAC 5.1 files which the AppleTV CORRECTLY identifies as 5.1 and then downmixes to Dolby Pro Logic before sending to the receiver thus destroying the discrete surround sound.

Also, the only method I have read of actually creating a movie file for AppleTV that contained a DTS track required the use of a Windows PC (and wasn't a particularly short process, basically encoding the audio and video separately and trying to get them to match back up).
post #137 of 223
  • Missing DVD slot
  • 1080p
  • 5.1 surround sound
  • Direct iTunes store connectivity
  • Movie rentals
  • TV show subscription
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #138 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

The DTS wav files work because the AppleTV INCORRECTLY thinks it's playing a standard wav file, thus passes the data unmolested through the digital audio port. It's up to the user's receiver to CORRECTLY process that signal and actually extract the 5.1 audio.

Compare that with AAC 5.1 files which the AppleTV CORRECTLY identifies as 5.1 and then downmixes to Dolby Pro Logic before sending to the receiver thus destroying the discrete surround sound.

Thanks for the clarification.

I would still hope for surround-sound movies on iTunes, with software support when the time comes. But I don't expect it soon.
post #139 of 223
A DVD player slot loading drive would go along ways to help it out. If it had DVR, that would be nice. If it had a DVD player, I could kill two birds with one stone. I want the DVD player to belike DVD player on my Mac.

I have one and intend to purchase another as soon as I get another HD tv.
Hard-Core.
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Hard-Core.
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post #140 of 223
delete
post #141 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Neither Steve Jobs nor Apple ever thought Apple TV was best for "all of us." In fact they called it an experiment.

AppleTV is not of much use to most people right now, and Apple never thought differently. Some people will find value in it now, but most people--like me--will only find value in the later steps that follow. I'm certainly not going to complain about the early steps that I'm not forced into using, when I know later steps will be much appreciated.

That's BS. If it was an experiment than it should not have been sold.
Is the iPhone an experiment?
Stop defending something that you don't know anything about with such esoteric rhetoric. Who sells something on the market as a prototype for people to buy and fool them into thinking it's a finished product? No one is forcing anyone into using or buying anything but the promise was that Apple TV was going to be great product and That hasn't fanned out.
post #142 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In a report last week, McQuivey warned executives of the Cupertino-based company that it was in their best interest to "win NBC back" as an iTunes partner if they had any hopes of replicating their success in music with digital video.

"Don't let the Macgeeks posting angry blogs against NBC fool you," McQuivey wrote in a report last Monday following the television network's pull-out from iTunes. "The loser here is Apple, which relies on NBC Universal to deliver 30 (percent) of video download sales. Any supposed backlash against NBC will not materialize because NBC has made its content available, for free, on NBC.com and six other major portals sites."

Everyone has made excellent points with regards to the aTV and it's shortcomings.

McQuivey however needs to define "Macgeeks". I like my Apple products. I praise them when things "just works", as much as I curse them when they don't. But regarding relying on NBC/Universal, in my own circumstances, I have no interest in their shows. I'm not saying they are not good or that I couldn't become hooked on them. It's just my viewing time is limited and I am already committed to my favorites. I also ususally try and avoid NBC due to the political leanings going on in the background at the executive level.

I mean, just on Friday NBC said they would not air a paid advertisement to say "Thank You" to the troops and NBC's reason for not airing it, was that it went against their standard for partisan/political endorsements when the advert, at the end, showed a website address - www.freedomswatch.org and while it is a website with Conservative leanings, if one went to it they could sign a "digital thank you card" for the troops, as well as see provided links that supports the troops, not the war, but the troops and how many times have we heard, we don't support the war but we support the troops - apparently not NBC, although they now have backed down, but the absurdity of it all in the first place.

Here are the links found on the website that one can link to in case they want to, in some way, support the troops:

http://www.adoptaplatoon.org
http://www.anysoldier.com
http://www.booksforsoldiers.com/
http://give2thetroops.org
http://www.moveamericaforward.org
http://www.operationhomefront.net
http://www.operationcareandcomfort.org
http://www.operationcarepackages.org
http://www.operationtroopaid.org
http://www.opgratitude.com
http://www.soldiersangels.org
http://www.usocares.org

The heresy of it all! This is why I have never made a purchase of a NBC/Universal product on iTunes anyway. So I'm not missing it and I'm not looking for it at any of the other various portal locations, be it six or sixty. NBC have you no shame!

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #143 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

What everyone wants is to view their content in peace.

jobs should let them try it their way. If it then fails, then fine, they tried, and it didn't work.

But, if somehow it did work, then Jobs would be wrong. The consumer will have spoken either way.

Either way, Apple wins.

Mel, oh Mel, oh Mel, oh Mel

You've been a fan long enough to realise Apple will only do that over Steve's cold corpse!

The birthday present isn't 'GREAT' if you picked it before, that suprise romantic weekend away isn't 'AMAZING' if you planned it in advance & the iPod Touch wouldn't be the coolest gizmo ever if we'd spec'd it out.

Practically all the other tech manufacturers/developers play this game (partly because they haven't got a clue and partly for user buy-in) and the results are invariably underwhelming. Thank the maker Apple isn't one of these.

That said they are starting to use the old - lock it to generate controversy, concede and open it a bit to generate popularity trick (i.e. iPhone SDK) so maybe they realise Steve won't be there forever.

I've been viewing 3Mbps 720p content in AppleTV for a while now and as soon as it's available on iTunes - bye bye SkyTV

McD
Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
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post #144 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

The lack of success of the AppleTV has nothing to do with its hardware, it has to do with the iTunes store videos. The selection is relatively poor, there are no rentals, and the resolution isn't good enough for big-screen TV viewing. Change those things, but don't change the AppleTV hardware or functionality, and you've got a hit with AppleTV.

I agree, the ATV hardware itself has all the needed features for the masses, its the iTNS that is not read yet.

What Apple needs to succeed with ATV:
* rental for video
* HD content (720p is enough)
* WIFI video store in ATV (a sw upgrade that waits for the right release date, maybe when a new ATV model will be released)

I tend to agree with folks that wanted a DVD slot in ATV for convenience. On the other hand, I disagree with a need for DVR capability in ATV. No company is making $$$ from selling DVRs, even Tivo has never made a profit from it. The iTunes model is a much more successful model that's appealing to millions. If ATV had a solid video service behind it with rent and HD then a DVR wouldn't be needed for the ATV to succeed. Many would buy it without a DVR.

Relating to video rental here's an article I just read from Daniel Eran Dilger (I love reading his articles, btw): http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/1...tunes-rentals/
After reading it I am sure you could see the potential success that the ATV.
post #145 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

The lack of success of the AppleTV has nothing to do with its hardware, it has to do with the iTunes store videos. The selection is relatively poor, there are no rentals, and the resolution isn't good enough for big-screen TV viewing. Change those things, but don't change the AppleTV hardware or functionality, and you've got a hit with AppleTV.

I agree, the ATV hardware itself has all the needed features for the masses, its the iTNS that is not ready yet.

What Apple needs to succeed with ATV:
* rental for video
* HD content (720p is enough)
* WIFI video store in ATV (a sw upgrade that waits for the right release date, maybe when a new ATV model will be released)

I tend to agree with folks that wanted a DVD slot in ATV for convenience. On the other hand, I disagree with a need for DVR capability in ATV. No company is making $$$ from selling DVRs, even Tivo has never made a profit from it. The iTunes model is a much more successful model that's appealing to millions. If ATV had a solid video service behind it with rent and HD then a DVR wouldn't be needed for the ATV to succeed. Many would buy it without a DVR.

Relating to video rental here's an article I just read from Daniel Eran Dilger (I love reading his articles, btw): http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/1...tunes-rentals/
After reading it I am sure you could see the potential success that the ATV.
post #146 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

There is one solution: Apple TV and Mac mini become one machine.

Boom.

Bust!

If I want a computer attached to my TV I'll buy the Mini. If I want a simple "TV" solution I'll buy the AppleTV - we already have this choice so why do people keep posting comments like this. The two devices work totally differently with the Mini being the 'geek' option & the AppleTV being the consumer option.

McD
Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
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post #147 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1984 View Post

They are not moving away from hardware at all. They are just embracing more ways of receiving content. They are currently working on the OCAP-based Series 4 which works with SDV without the external adapter module as well as interactive features such as On Demand using a "compatability mode" where it defaults into the cable company's ugly interface for such features.

I can't quote the entire article, but the essence is that they are moving into other areas, including interactive banner ads, second by second viewership data (in a deal with, guess who-NBC Universal), and software loaded into other manufacturers DVR's.

This is from an interview with Tom Rogers.

That last, as from the article, will allow people to have:

"...access to TiVo's interface without requiring them to buy any more equipment."

They also:

"..(on Nov. 28) announced a partnership with a German company, Nero, which would would develop a way for the TiVo software to be downloaded to personal computers."

Also:

"These deals underscored TiVo's new emphasis on subscriptions and media services rather than hardware."

Long term, TiVo will get out of the hardware market where they are losing money hand over fist.

They don't need the hardware, as all of the functions of a TiVo are from the software.

While I expect them to say that they will remain in hardware, they will have to say that until their new plans are all in operation lest they kill their hardware sales now.
post #148 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Which makes a point against DRM, not Apple.
Again... what was Apple supposed to do? Offer no content?
And if you say 'license their DRM', you're just delusional about how capitalism works.

Hey, I just pointed out a fact. I didn't say anything else.
post #149 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Again- Does anyone know what the USB port on the back of AppleTV is for?
Apple can you hear me?

Jobs said that once you bought your ATv, you could do anything you wanted with it. There are those who have hacked it.

You can attach a keyboard, or a HDD, maybe both at the same time. Possibly, by now, more can be done.
post #150 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDave View Post

Mel, oh Mel, oh Mel, oh Mel

You've been a fan long enough to realise Apple will only do that over Steve's cold corpse!

The birthday present isn't 'GREAT' if you picked it before, that suprise romantic weekend away isn't 'AMAZING' if you planned it in advance & the iPod Touch wouldn't be the coolest gizmo ever if we'd spec'd it out.

Practically all the other tech manufacturers/developers play this game (partly because they haven't got a clue and partly for user buy-in) and the results are invariably underwhelming. Thank the maker Apple isn't one of these.

That said they are starting to use the old - lock it to generate controversy, concede and open it a bit to generate popularity trick (i.e. iPhone SDK) so maybe they realise Steve won't be there forever.

I've been viewing 3Mbps 720p content in AppleTV for a while now and as soon as it's available on iTunes - bye bye SkyTV

McD

Well yeah, you're right of course, I do know it, but I just had to say it.
post #151 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeYYY View Post

I agree, the ATV hardware itself has all the needed features for the masses, its the iTNS that is not read yet.

What Apple needs to succeed with ATV:
* rental for video
* HD content (720p is enough)
* WIFI video store in ATV (a sw upgrade that waits for the right release date, maybe when a new ATV model will be released)

I tend to agree with folks that wanted a DVD slot in ATV for convenience. On the other hand, I disagree with a need for DVR capability in ATV. No company is making $$$ from selling DVRs, even Tivo has never made a profit from it. The iTunes model is a much more successful model that's appealing to millions. If ATV had a solid video service behind it with rent and HD then a DVR wouldn't be needed for the ATV to succeed. Many would buy it without a DVR.

Relating to video rental here's an article I just read from Daniel Eran Dilger (I love reading his articles, btw): http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/1...tunes-rentals/
After reading it I am sure you could see the potential success that the ATV.

You're saying that Scientific Atlanta, Pioneer, and others aren't making money making, and selling them to the cable companies, who then rent them?

I don't believe that.

Tivo loses money from them because they allowed too easy a method to skip commercials. Replay died because their commercial skipping tech was even better.

The other DVR companies work with the cable companies, not against them.
post #152 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDave View Post

Bust!

If I want a computer attached to my TV I'll buy the Mini. If I want a simple "TV" solution I'll buy the AppleTV - we already have this choice so why do people keep posting comments like this. The two devices work totally differently with the Mini being the 'geek' option & the AppleTV being the consumer option.

McD

I don't know about that. The ATv is basically just a poor Mac with special software. I can't see it as being impossible to add that software to a regular Mac instead. It would cost nothing to do.
post #153 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

The internet provider doesn't need to provide the bandwidth for it to everyone, at least not at first. It's a niche thing and it will take years for the adoption to build up. But I'm sure they're probably providing that kind of bandwidth to some users already. Especially considering that people are already pirating HD movies in full 1080p format.



Even if nobody could see the difference, I think lacking 1080p playback capability will matter to people who spent the money on a 1080p screen. Many people do buy on specs, which means that there will be plenty of people who won't buy a box unless it has the highest available numbers.

And 5.1 content IS an issue with the box at this point. It's possible that a firmware update could enable 5.1 surround via the digital out, but I don't think anyone has figured out 5.1 playback regardless of the content.



I know that. My point is that the aTV can't output content encoded in 1080i or p. With both disc formats supporting p already and many tv's supporting at least i, not supporting content at that resolution puts it behind the curve.

Even if it did support 1080p this wouldn't affect me because, like the vast majority of people with compatible HDTVs, I have a 1366x768 panel in my TV so I'll never see the benefit. I will, however, feel the pinch from my ISP as 720p is vastly more downloadable under our current ISP plans and managing video on my Mac is far better.

All-in-all the lack of 1080p is only a perceived issue not a real deal-breaker for most people.

I'd be more keen to see an option for iTunes to automatically create iPod/iPhone/stereo tracks during download from the 720p/5.1 content

McD
Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
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post #154 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't know about that. The ATv is basically just a poor Mac with special software. I can't see it as being impossible to add that software to a regular Mac instead. It would cost nothing to do.

I thought Leopard even gave the Mini Front Row2 but as products the two are positioned very differently. The idea of doing all the media management/computer stuff on the main TV is definitely a no-go with the wife. Been there, tried that.
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post #155 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDave View Post

I thought Leopard even gave the Mini Front Row2 but as products the two are positioned very differently. The idea of doing all the media management/computer stuff on the main TV is definitely a no-go with the wife. Been there, tried that.

The products are positioned differently, as you said, but that doesn't mean that they can't do it. Many households have more than one computer these days. I've always thought that the Mini was the perfect computer for the living room. The wireless aluminum keyboard is perfect for that.
post #156 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDave View Post

Even if it did support 1080p this wouldn't affect me because, like the vast majority of people with compatible HDTVs, I have a 1366x768 panel in my TV so I'll never see the benefit. I will, however, feel the pinch from my ISP as 720p is vastly more downloadable under our current ISP plans and managing video on my Mac is far better.

All-in-all the lack of 1080p is only a perceived issue not a real deal-breaker for most people.

I'd be more keen to see an option for iTunes to automatically create iPod/iPhone/stereo tracks during download from the 720p/5.1 content

McD

More and more people are getting 1080p Tv's though, as the price has been coming down so quickly. I'm willing to bet that a year from now there will be few Tv's without it. Just the cheapest, and smallest.

Plan for the future, not the present.
post #157 of 223
The Apple TV should work like this:

Have a DVD-DL drive to insert DVD or DIVX movie disk. The Apple TV should ask if you wish to add this to your library just like iTunes does when you insert a CD. It should then copy and encode the entire movie to the Apple TV High Quality format and insert Chapter Breaks just like the original movie contained.

Movies should be able to uploaded to the Apple TV from any networked iTunes computer and they should remain on the Apple TV without requiring any particular computer to retain a copy of that movie.

There are too many codecs for home users to want to be troubled by. It must be able to handle AVI, DIVX, MPEG, WMV, DV or whatever the source and create an Apple TV file from it.

Encoded movies stored on the Apple TV should be able to be copied to a local computer and backed up.

Any Movies purchased on iTunes should be able to be burned to a standard DVD and playable on a regular DVD player. We are approaching the point where convenience of purchase is more important that the likelihood of someone making additional copies of it.

Apple TV should have a selectable SKIP or jump ahead distance to avoid the need to encode MPEG or AVI files to include chapters. Being able to press 2 Mins - 5 Mins jump would make that unnecessary.

Apple TV should be able to be remote control sync-able with other RF / IR remote controls.

The Apple TV should come with a 500 Gig hard drive - no reason to explain this if you intend to use it you need storage!

The Apple TV should still be capable of syncing subscribed podcasts to the Apple TV.

Everyone I have discussed the Apple TV with said it's ok but too limiting to get content into Apple TV. I for one don't want it to be a DVR. I prefer a DVD optical drive that would put the encoding burden on the Apple TV. I do not want to waste my computer's time encoding my movies into Apple TV format.
post #158 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by filburt View Post

As others have pointed out, Apple TV failed because it did not target home theater enthusiasts. When it comes to home theater, it is these enthusiasts that drive the majority adoption. HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray format war has opened up huge opportunity for Apple. Sadly, Apple ignored home theater enthusiasts by omitting HD contents, 1080p capability, built-in multi-channel audio, subtitles, video rental, and support for additional codecs. While 400,000 Apple fanboys are not insignificant, Apple TV could've been huge.

AppleTV hasn't succeeded yet because of iTunes.

It should have done a lot better but a load of technobabblists convinced consumers that they needed a lot more of all the wrong/irrelevant 'features' that fitted their idea of a workable product (even though other systems have these and have still failed). Nothing new here as similar 'experts' have been doing this to Macs for years - most own neither a Mac nor an AppleTV.

For the codec-complainers (you've already admitted you're pirates) to make an AppleTV work try these;

For HiDef/H.264:-
Download PS3 or XBOX compatible 720p .mp4 content with Xtorrentp2p (this will drop straight into iTunes when complete) > adjust the Info in iTunes > Sync AppleTV and enjoy crystal clear TV

For other video (avi, mkv):-
Download anything with XTorrent or similar > export from QT Pro as a reference .mov > add to iTunes > right-click the file and "convert for AppleTV" > adjust the Info in iTunes > Sync AppleTV and enjoy

There's less to grumble about these days as the pirate world has finally caught on to H.264 (MPEG-4/AVC) over the old XviD/DivX .avi (MPEG-4/ASP) meaning native content is out there. Unfortunately much of the x.264 stuff uses a different profile and needs to be converted as with step 2.

Roll-on iTunes HD

McD
Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
Reply
Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
Reply
post #159 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

More and more people are getting 1080p Tv's though, as the price has been coming down so quickly. I'm willing to bet that a year from now there will be few Tv's without it. Just the cheapest, and smallest.

Plan for the future, not the present.


My next TV is probably not going to be a 1080P but a 720P / 1080i Pioneer Plasma (PDP-5080 HD). Why?

Because it's got the best picture going and most of the content I watch is 720p / 1080i.

Content providers (cable / telco / satellite) are going to need a ton of bandwidth to offer 1080p content online, and the BluRay / HDDVD wars will still be going on.


Right now for my streaming video box I use XBMC. It plays everything I throw at it except for the h.264 1080 stuff; cpu is too weak. If Apple can copy XBMC and have enough horsepower to do HD content (edit: High bitrate) without dropping frames, it might have a winner on it's hands.


And BTW, you can get uncompressed HD signals; Over-the-Air Local HD channels in your area.
post #160 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

More and more people are getting 1080p Tv's though, as the price has been coming down so quickly. I'm willing to bet that a year from now there will be few Tv's without it. Just the cheapest, and smallest.

Plan for the future, not the present.

I must confess I'm holding out for a 1080p set next but prices here are still too steep. A main critiscism of AppleTV has been the connection and with 720p/1080i sets selling like crazy this is definitely the main target market.

& what's with you? You're being far too agreeable! Where's the snarling, argumentative, techno-facist we've all come to know & 'respect' (cough!). Has Paula Abdul hijacked your login? Or have you found an old stash?

OK, techno-facist was a bit strong

McD
Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
Reply
Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
Reply
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