NBC hitches onto download service from Apple rival SanDisk - Page 2

They do...ever hear of the iPod nano?

double post

Not exactly... NBC is in a world of hurt right now.

http://www.broadcastnewsroom.com/art....jsp?id=253962

And don't forget, a huge value that iTunes gave to NBC, beyond mere sales: publicity for their shows. Apple heavily promoted everything from prime time NBC to Battlestar Galactica, both by email announcements and on-screen to a zillion music shoppers. And iTunes gives all those iPod users a great way to stay caught up with a series when they miss an episode--or to start watching a series late. Thus iTunes helps build viewers for plain old ad-supported regular broadcasts.

I do like ad-supported streaming as an OPTION--I catch up on shows via ABC.com sometimes. (ABC.com's streaming shows aren't Microsoft-only, happily--and much of it is in high-def and looks great.)


Ouch!

"Fourth-ranked broadcaster NBC has quietly begun reimbursing advertisers an average of $500,000 each for failing to reach guaranteed ratings levels, the first time a network has taken such a step in years, media buyers said."

"Meanwhile, none of its new series this season have caught on with viewers. Compounding buyers' angst about NBC is the network's plan to schedule more reality shows, including 'Celebrity Apprentice' and 'American Gladiators.'"

"We are concerned that it might be thinking about adopting a programming strategy like some of its sister cable networks. 'American Gladiators' and even some of the shows they have in development, like 'Knight Rider,' are remakes being dusted off rather than coming up with new creations."

Three words: Apple Universal Dock.

It looks like NBC wants to really push "bundling" on viewers. IOW, they want the "flexibility" to tie your purchase of an episode of "Heroes" with whatever new/lame show they're trying to market this month. Apple wants to stick to a much simpler, a la carte purchase model.

And their fragmented, scattershot approach to selling video content to different markets (Hulu.com for watching on a computer? SanDisk's service for watching on the TV at home?) is going to confuse customers and drive them away.

Sorry NBC: Apple has a much clearer idea of what consumers want than you do.

Um no... no it can't. The Sansa View cannot play my iTunes videos. Nor can I as a Mac user shop at this new store. All of that is beside the point. The point is that NBC claims that the AppleTV is the only way to watch your iTunes purchases on your TV when there is an older system that's almost identical to what they propose you do instead. On top of that, what I usually do is just connect my MacBook directly to the TV so I can use my remote. There's 3 different ways when NBC claims that Apple requires the AppleTV.

Quote taken from link posted above...

"We're trying to understand NBC's recent moves," Starcom Entertainment exec vp Laura Caraccioli-Davis said. "We are concerned that it might be thinking about adopting a programming strategy like some of its sister cable networks. 'American Gladiators' and even some of the shows they have in development, like 'Knight Rider,' are remakes being dusted off rather than coming up with new creations.

"NBC used to be the upscale, quality network," she added...


People thought that the Neocon President Bush is ruining the country... See what happens when Liberals run a tv network!

NCB = Fourth Place... hahahahahahahaha

Quote taken from link posted above...

"We're trying to understand NBC's recent moves," Starcom Entertainment exec vp Laura Caraccioli-Davis said. "We are concerned that it might be thinking about adopting a programming strategy like some of its sister cable networks. 'American Gladiators' and even some of the shows they have in development, like 'Knight Rider,' are remakes being dusted off rather than coming up with new creations.

"NBC used to be the upscale, quality network," she added...


People thought that the Neocon President Bush is ruining the country... See what happens when Liberals run something as small as a tv network!

NCB = Fourth Place... hahahahahahahaha

In all honesty, I'd rather have a ruined network than a country

Wouldn't it be rather ironic that NBC might be paying Apple for the advertising they've done on NBC?

stupid site...

All the time using Windows and Firefox with "Block pop-ups" checked.

Why is everyone here blaming NBC for wanting to make a profit on their shows or whatever? Their objective like any other corporation is to maximize their profits. Don't you get it? Just because they can make more money without being locked into iTunes does not make them the enemy. I think it's quite brilliant that they were able to foresee being locked into a non-negotiable iTunes profit structure before making such a binding comittment like the music industry. They saw how it's worked out for the music industry in that Apple is getting most of the profit via iPods and said -wait a minute. Can you seriously blame them? If you owned a company or corporation wouldn't you go where you can control your sale point and not let where someone else decides it? If you didn't , you'd be fired.
AppleTV via iTune is a f-a-i-l-u-r-e. Instead of asking how many people own sandisks, ask how many people own AppleTV's and why not more.
Please - question Apple's failed policies before bashing everyone and anyone else.

I get so sick of these exclusive deals. If NBC wants to be sucessful then they need to sell content through as many avenues as possible to reach the biggest market.

What I don't like about the Sansa device is that it's another device. The iPod is an MP3 player that can also play stuff on a TV. This sansa device has a single function.

I can't wait to see these value priced bundles

As others have said, Apple would get the blame for any bundling or price hike in iTunes. People love to blame Apple for everything. Apple's name is on the store. I don't think people in general are smart enough to make the distinction. Look at the Star Trek fiasco. NBC wasn't providing the shows and people were screaming at Apple.

Apple knows marketing and NBC should learn a thing or two. Technology savvy people know when they are being sold to. They know what they want before go to a store. Don't try to make them pay more just get extra things they don't want. I'm sure NBC is going to bundle low performing shows with good performing ones. Great.

Walmart dictates a lot of terms to the companies who's products they sell. Walmart is good at what is does and companies are thankful for the shelf space and money Walmart is making for them. Why should Apple be any different. NBC should be very grateful for all of Apple's marketing and bandwidth, and, oh yeah, all the money Apple makes for them.

NBC, get over yourself. The only show I like of yours is "The Office" and you have Apple to thank for that.

I think you'd have to make a case that they're making more money by getting out of iTunes. Most of their money from the internet was from iTunes. And they haven't raised their prices elsewhere, so I don't see how NBC is making more money elsewhere. I certainly don't think it's possible to beat the money they got per person through iTunes using an ad-supported service. Ad-supported network TV amounts to about $0.35 per audience member per episode at most. Internet ads pay a lot less than that.


I think you'd have to make an actual argument on why Apple's media policies failed. I really don't understand how the dominant distributor in the paid download market is a failure.

APPLETV-HELLO?

What? That's not proof. And it's not media. We don't know how well it sold or didn't sell. Also, it's only tangential to their media market because there are other means of watching iTunes video. Currently, Apple sells four different portable video players and the videos play on computers too. AppleTV can be a "failure" and still not hurt their video sales.

Apple is still the dominant legal internet video distributor, and you're saying their media policies have failed. Last time they said anything, Apple sold 100M+ TV episodes. That's not a failure. I don't understand how you think NBC will succeed with the other options when their audience is much smaller and they're trying to push distribution methods that return less money per person.

NBC is owned by General Electric. It's hardly run by "liberals". Not that you should let reality stand in the way of your rant. Just don't expect to be taken seriously when you actually misspell "NBC".

And it's a safe bet, Apple will either be announcing a new AppleTV in January, or dropping it. Apple doesn't let stuff sit around to long without some changes, and this one is ripe for some up-dates.

Skip

AppleTV is a failure. Didn't you read yesterday's headline and thread? It has underperformed greatly- nobody is buying it. Sales have stalled! And one of the reasons is that it's iTunes video content driven- and that video content has diminished since it's inception- plain and simple. That is a fact and a failure. Apple should by now have both more content than it had last May (NBC) as well as higher quality video available. It is not "Near DVD" as Jobs said but more like "Smear VHS" quality if you look at the only upgrade it's ever received -YouTube.
Some success.

I honestly don't understand how Apple has "destroyed" the music industry. From the sidelines, it seems like before Apple/iPod/iTunes the music industry was in an incredible slide. I remember news reports from around 2000 that music stores were closing up by the droves and CD sales were plummeting. There was talk of Borders and Barnes & Nobles shrinking their music departments. Tower Records evaporated. Then along came Apple and started selling a ton of music.

It seems that Apple provided an awful lot of sales at relatively juicy profits for the record companies. Most tracks Apple sells go for about the same or more than they would if you bought the CD at WalMart, and the costs for the studios are next to nill - they don't have to press CDs, ship product, give profit margin to Ingram or other distributors, negotiate with the WalMart/Target/superstores, worry about retail theft and returns, deal with physical inventory, etc etc etc. The record companies have GOT to be making more money off iTunes than they did off rapidly declining CD sales.

Is the problem unbundling of tracks? I can understand why artists are upset about that, but not the record companies. And that doesn't seem like "destroying" the industry.

Is the problem the fixed 99 cents/track? I can't believe the record companies would really like to make less money off their music, and could they really charge more? That would just push people to buy lower margin physical CDs.

An example: Compare WalMart's price on a physical CD & the iTunes price for "Complete Clapton." At WalMart the 2-disk set is $19.88 for the disks or about 55 cents/track. On iTunes, it's $24.99 for the complete album or 99 cents/track. I really can't believe the record companies are being hurt by Apple on this. Going the WalMart route, I bet they are netting less than 20 cents a track. I'd bet they make at least double that through iTunes. And it's a MUCH simpler business model.

Maybe they're worried I'll just buy the 2 tracks I really like on the CD for $1.10. But that would be the fault of the artists & labels not Apple. And isn't the sale of 2 tracks better than the sale of zero?

The logic and math for all of this is very similar to DVD versions of TV shows.

I'm left thinking the record companies (and NBC) just don't like Apple. But that doesn't seem like the modus operandi of an even half decently managed publicly held company.

If anybody can help me understand the financials behind this, I'd appreciate it.

OK, AppleTV has failed. But so far, other than that one device, Apple's media policies have not failed. It's your reasoning that's the failure. You are making a false correlation that AppleTV encapsulates all of Apple's media policies. AppleTV can fail and that doesn't mean Apple's media ventures have failed or their policies have failed.

The headline of AppleTV's failure is just based on analyst estimates and expectations, not any real numbers. But that does not mean that Apple's media policies are a failure.

100M+ TV episode purchased downloads is NOT a failure. Gross sales of NBC episodes were about $40M, which is more than NBC will get everywhere else on the Internet, combined, for their TV shows. Your total failure to acknowledge that little fact is really quite baffling. I want you to show me who has sold more than that.

NBC's antics were more about control than money. They got more control, but they can't be making as much money as they did with iTunes.

Because I must now resort to piracy or cable or satellite to see the only two shows I care to keep up with, Battlestar Galactica and Heroes. As I pointed out earlier, when both shows were airing new episodes that cost me $16 a month at the iTunes store. Find me a cable package that has NBC, and Sci-Fi for $16 a month or less. Oh yeah, there had better not be any commercials either.

More control = more money. If not now - eventually. Just like the government!
You really need to ease up. Apple is a great company but don't just bash everyone else for the sake of being a stepford Appleite!
Question Apple as well- That's all.

1) They're not the 'enemy' because they're trying to make a profit. They're the enemy because they're insisting on forcing consumption of product we don't want using that as an excuse to inflate prices. This is the same issue as labels insisting that users spend $20 for CDs consisting of 1 good song and 11 crap ones. Its the same issue as Cable insisting on bundling of channels instead of allowing ala carte. iTunes holds the promise of being the ala carte solution and THAT's what the arguement is about.

2) If you're saying that Apple gets most of the profits from iTunes store music sales, then you're just wrong... (if you're saying they get most of the profits from iPods, well, then 'duh'.

http://www.computer.org/portal/site/...rL!-1254254976

"Apple is trying to entice the recording industry by offering a surprising amount of money: iTunes typically pays wholesale prices of 79 cents per song and US$10 per album?comparable to the wholesale prices of CDs, even though there's no manufacturing or distribution cost. These prices leave Apple little money to be made on song sales (hence the importance of selling iPods at a big markup). "

3) if the media companies are saying they're not making any money from digital distribution, then they're outright lying in the writers' strike, since offering 4% of nothing should be no skin off their back. They're making BIG $$ and as usual refuse to let the actual producers share in the rewards.

That's a deeply flawed argument. If a content creator cannot or does not provide you their content in the time, form, manner you choose at a price you are willing to pay, you "... must resort to piracy?"

"Must?"

I am sorry, but thievery is thievery. It might happen a lot, might even be the norm in certain settings, and clearly, today's technology enables it to happen with ease, but it is not justified. Ever.

I might not like it -- and might even think the law is too protective of content creators in the US, and content creators are numbnuts, sometimes -- but the law is the law. If you don't like it, you change it. You don't break it.

1) Your palpable glee at AppleTV's 'failure' is fascinating. Kind of a sick way to spend your energy, but to each his own.
2) Can you please identify the alternative device that is (at the moment) a 'success' (and please give supporting sales numbers.)
3) Your entire premise of 'failure' is based on one badly sourced item on a rumors site?

*ahem*

Way to miss the entire fucking point. Here it is again in different words for those who see lots and lots of trees but can't seem to find that forest I keep talking about.

I used to be able to download NBC shows at a fair price. Now I can't. I either can pay a boatload more for cable or satellite, or I can steal it. Those are my options. Eventually I can buy from their new store, if I want to buy a PC and a SanDisk thingy.

I am the consumer. I'm the one who's money they want. They're not acting like they want it very much.

I question Apple's motivations all the time. I really don't know who to believe Apple v. NBC, I think they're both trying to play each other and the public for stupid, and I think they're both being dishonest to us by selectively giving us information about the feud.

You still haven't shown us who's doing a better job or why 100M+ episode sales is a failure. In a small and very new form of paid video distribution. The original post I responded to was filled with FUD, lies or ignorance of the actual facts, save for one headline that's currently unverifiable. If Apple's a failure in this market, then frankly, everyone else is a failure. This bit with Sandisk won't turn Sandisk into an Apple beater.

It's just that your reasoning was way out of whack, as if you're an out and out hater grasping for reasons why. That's all.

Er, yeah. Like an iPod w/o the screen. Really Kick-ass.

Dupe post...sorry

Apple already does, the nano for $149. I've been doing exactly this for over a year with an iPod. This is just an ipod with a remote control instead of a screen, for a little cheaper. Personally, I'd rather pay a little more and get the screen.


You can with an iPod dock. To be honest, the main reason I use a TV remote is to avoid commercials...watching from iPod, that's not an issue for me.

The refunds to advertisers make me laugh, hopefully that's a good sign that the networks may have to eventually crack in the ongoing writers' strike. And I still find it funny to still see iPod mentions in shows like 30 Rock.


How many people own ANY media extender right now? While the aTV hasn't been a big seller, is there ANY evidence that any competing box has sold better?


Did YOU read that headline? That whole article was all guesstimates, no real numbers since apple hasn't released any. Is there any real evidence that "nobody" is buying aTV?

And again, while it doesn't seem to be selling like gangbusters, what other box is selling better?

Interesting that there's *no* word at all about their home-site streaming "solution" in context of this news. In fact, there hasn't been a squeak abot their Amazon sales, either. And now, SanDisk. Either they are desperate, or they are fools.

The fact that discounts are being offered is not a good sign for NBC: it means they know they can't compete against iTunes on the strength of their product or their service, so they must offer enticements to hold their own. Down the road, attempting to cut back on those enticements could deal a hard blow to their viability.

NBC and the other networks are in the same perilous position as the major labels & the big studios: digital media pulls the plug on the old models, and attempts to force those models onto the current landscape is a recipie for disaster. the day may not be far off when I can subscribe to the things I want to watch regularly, and use spot-downloads & NetFlix to fill in my entertainment wishes. No more satellite fees!

Okay, since you're going to be pedantic, I'll revise my statement:

If you replace "iPod Nano" with "Sansa View", and replace "iTunes content" with "Fanfare content", then the same would be true.

My original point was simply that you seemed to be latched on to this unsupportable idea that the iPod Nano occupied some sort of unique position in the iTunes (AppleTV/iPod/iTMS) movie-purchasing/playing ecosystem which didn't have any parallel in the Sansa (TakeTV/Sansa View/Fanfare) movie-purchasing/playing ecosystem.

Your exact words were to the effect that the iPod Nano's ability to play iTunes movies on your TV via an A/V cable, and then be detached to continue playback as a standalone portable unit was something that SanDisk's new service wouldn't be able to parallel.

I was pointing out that all indications suggest to me that opinion simply isn't going to turn out to be true.

The Airport Express defies your assumption.

The AppleTV isn't even a year old yet. Hardly time to start a panic about a revision.

1) I did not miss the point. What would you do if you missed a show on cable or satellite (w/no DVR) or have neither?

2) I realize you might be angry at my response, but adding an f-word as emphasis does nothing enhance your point or your standing.

It is? When did Apple state that?


You mean the unfounded SPECULATION from an analyst?

Remember that it was analysts that said the iPhone was a failure when it launched.

No... my exact words were in direct response to...


I will admit that I thought that said Apple's method requires instead of Apple's method calls for. My point was that the AppleTV is not the only way to watch iTunes content on your TV. Also, your statement still doesn't work because I'd have to buy a PC to use the Fanfare content.

Sorry about that. It's just the whole latch on to single word like a rabid terrier thing is getting really really old. I realize that this is the first time you've done.

Looks like you're still missing the point though. I do in fact have neither. What I do now is miss the shows. I tried watching Heroes on NBC's site, but it stutters like mad and tends to crash during the "limited commercial interruptions." The iTunes store was the only workable way for me to legally see these shows. I'm not subscribing to cable or satellite to watch 40 hours of TV a year.

My original post that started this tangent was in response to "Why is NBC the bad guy?," or "Why do you hate NBC so much." Well, I don't really hate them, but they have these two great shows that I really enjoyed and then they said I can't watch them anymore. That's why I don't like them. Of course they have a legal right to do that, but that doesn't change the whole "I'm taking my ball and going home." crap that they're pulling.

Maybe this is the way of the future. A new gadget and website per network?

No replys from me until I get home as someone let the kids onto this forum and our content sweeper has been tripped - moderator please!

McD