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Second-gen iPhone in final phase; Apple TV update planned - report - Page 2

post #41 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanabi View Post

In Europe, mobile phone customers are used to getting free mobile phone upgrades and also significantly discounted mobile phone upgrades after a certain period of time, without having to purchase a new phone outright.

We get free phone upgrades here as well. But, you have to renew your contract. This might be different, but, who knows?
post #42 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

That might only be true in France as they're currently the only country selling un-subsidised iPhones without contracts.

But look at the price.
post #43 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

"Apple will refresh its entire Mac line-up throughout 2008, but information about the potential launch of a subnotebook was scarce, with one supplier saying that the product may be pushed out, citing possible design issues," he added."

Oh, really?

There never was a "subnotebook"!

You know what was meant.
post #44 of 120
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Originally Posted by freelander51 View Post

Have you ever heard about donating the handsets to charity ? They get refurbished and then sold onto to less fortunate states in the southern hemisphere, where those phone CAN and DO make a difference. As there is no phone manufacturing down there no jobs get lost either. Jobs that can get lost by overprotective states from the north if you catch my drift. Lets just call the product cotton...

What do you do with your old phones ?

We have the same thing here.
post #45 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Jeeze Ireland, that's a good idea isn't it? Yes it is.

Actually, like you have being saying before though, plasma is a better choice right now.

Yeah, I agree with me

Can't stand plasma, even though it's been getting better.
post #46 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Can't stand plasma, even though it's been getting better.

You have it backwards , it's LCD that's been getting better. Plasma has always been fantastic!
post #47 of 120
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Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

Yay, a screen on the Apple TV would make it a far more usable device for music, 'cos I don't want my TV on when I'm listening to music.

Actually, that's a very good point. I do hate the idea of having my energy sucking plasma on just to display the menu and 'now playing' info.
post #48 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

You have it backwards , it's LCD that's been getting better. Plasma has always been fantastic!

Plasma has stunk most of the time it's been out. Only in the past two years has it become more acceptable. It's much better than the older models, but still has its problems. But for smaller screens I guess it's ok.
post #49 of 120
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Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

Frankly I'm surprised there's even going to be second version of the AppleTV. I thought this "hobby" was done given Apple's issues with NBC and overall lacklustre sales.

By 'hobby', Jobs means 'corporate learning experience'.
Only 'analysts' who are pulling both projected and actual sales estimates out of their butts have labeled the device a 'failure'.
Apple is positioning it to be ready to go as the market develops and learning in the process.
post #50 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

By 'hobby', Jobs means 'corporate learning experience'.
Only 'analysts' who are pulling both projected and actual sales estimates out of their butts have labeled the device a 'failure'.
Apple is positioning it to be ready to go as the market develops and learning in the process.

I think that Jobs called it that because he was unsure how successful Apple would be wooing video content companies, and thus, what the sales would be.

This gave him an oppertunity to downgrade expectations for it before everyone else did.

But, if everything went well, and he was able to bully, er, convince, the content companies to come on board, on his terms, it could have been a big success.
post #51 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Wow- now that's thrilling! That's the least of what Apple TV needs- an LCD display.
Will all of us pioneers who got suckered into buying the 1st generation be able to get a trade-in for our lemons or a rebate like the iPhoneers? \

In what way were you suckered? Which feature did Apple advertise and not deliver on? Sounds like you suckered yourself into Apple's advertising if you really didn't want it. I'm sure Apple didn't send goons to your house to force you to buy an AppleTV.
post #52 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

You have it backwards , it's LCD that's been getting better. Plasma has always been fantastic!

and power sucking too. I'll never buy a plasma - too wasteful.
post #53 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Jeeze Ireland, that's a good idea isn't it? Yes it is.

Actually, like you have being saying before though, plasma is a better choice right now.

Yeah, I agree with me

Haha
post #54 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thataboy View Post

I was really expecting a successor to AppleTV in January. My gut said that AppleTV and her neglected cousin Mac Mini would be sort of merged and revamped. I guess I'll hold out til then!

As I wrote yesterday, access to content is too unstable right now for Apple make a big announcement at Macworld regarding Apple TV.
post #55 of 120
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Originally Posted by Wings View Post

C'mon Mr. Sachs, Apple will be above $205 in less than 30 days.


errrr.....Samuel Sachs died in 1935.
post #56 of 120
oops.
post #57 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Plasma has stunk most of the time it's been out. Only in the past two years has it become more acceptable. It's much better than the older models, but still has its problems. But for smaller screens I guess it's ok.

Speak only if you know.
Plasmas don't go below 42 inches.
What are you talking about?????
post #58 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

But look at the price.

Yep although I guess you can still argue that that isn't the true un-subsidised cost. Orange France could just be profiteering.

I do fail to see why it's as expensive as it is when an iPod Touch is £199 here and there's no way on earth adding the features of a very average 2G camera phone adds £70 never mind the £250 extra Orange want for a totally unlocked phone.
post #59 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porchland View Post

As I wrote yesterday, access to content is too unstable right now for Apple make a big announcement at Macworld regarding Apple TV.

Unstable- that's an understatment!
OK- then give a recall and a refund to everyone who bought basically an unfinished product. If Apple couldn't deliver on the content then why sell it? The only additional content we got was "smear quality" YouTube videos that are streaming off the internet and can't even be saved on the damn thing! And Apple's iTunes is not providing it either. Either give us the content or open the box to record, surf the internet,etc. And I'm not talking about NBC. I'm talking about all the other major film studios that are not on iTunes. And nothing is even near HD- nothing! And don't tell me trailers!
post #60 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

Yep although I guess you can still argue that that isn't the true un-subsidised cost. Orange France could just be profiteering.

I do fail to see why it's as expensive as it is when an iPod Touch is £199 here and there's no way on earth adding the features of a very average 2G camera phone adds £70 never mind the £250 extra Orange want for a totally unlocked phone.

I don't either, but, who knows?
post #61 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Speak only if you know.
Plasmas don't go below 42 inches.
What are you talking about?????

I know. How many 60" and over models are out there?

Plasma and LCD's aren't the only screens available, you know.

There isn't much above 50 some odd inches that's affordable. And 50" isn't big.
post #62 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Unstable- that's an understatment!
OK- then give a recall and a refund to everyone who bought basically an unfinished product. If Apple couldn't deliver on the content then why sell it? The only additional content we got was "smear quality" YouTube videos that are streaming off the internet and can't even be saved on the damn thing! And Apple's iTunes is not providing it either. Either give us the content or open the box to record, surf the internet,etc. And I'm not talking about NBC. I'm talking about all the other major film studios that are not on iTunes. And nothing is even near HD- nothing! And don't tell me trailers!

1) You're free to rip all the DVDs you want to an AppleTV (iTunes won't do it but Handbrake will, and quite well). Done appropriately, it looks just as good as the source.
2) Does anybody besides Xbox 360 owners have HD video downloads at this point?
3) There are a lot of decent, HD, video podcasts
4) You can always "download" HD TV episodes and convert them to AppleTV. The 720p output the ATV can put out looks decent enought (it's not Blu-ray, but it's noticeably better than SD DVD and TV). Yeah, you'll probably need to convert it from DivX (why does everybody in torrent land encode in DivX again? It's not the cheapest or best codec. Whatever).
post #63 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

In what way were you suckered? Which feature did Apple advertise and not deliver on? Sounds like you suckered yourself into Apple's advertising if you really didn't want it. I'm sure Apple didn't send goons to your house to force you to buy an AppleTV.

delete
post #64 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

In what way were you suckered? Which feature did Apple advertise and not deliver on? Sounds like you suckered yourself into Apple's advertising if you really didn't want it. I'm sure Apple didn't send goons to your house to force you to buy an AppleTV.


No -the Appleinsider only allows goons like yourself to answer threads in such a manner.
Apple did not and has not delivered on content- end of story. Now re-read the last sentence again and don't ask the same question over and over "What was promised and never delivered"!
post #65 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

It works the other way around. When you buy a subsidized phone is when your contract is extended. I doubt the iPhone contract will be extended when you have to pay full price for the new phone.

T-Mobile (Germany) stated in a German court that the 400 Euro price in Germany is a subsidized price.
post #66 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

No -the Appleinsider only allows goons like yourself to answer threads in such a manner.
Apple did not and has not delivered on content- end of story. Now re-read the last sentence again and don't ask the same question over and over "What was promised and never delivered"!

The problem here though was that Apple did more than just hint to much more content, and people bought on that assumption. Apple hasn't shown any inclination to budge in their "negotiations" with those content providers though, so very little content is availableless now than before.

I can see some people being frustrated over that.
post #67 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The problem here though was that Apple did more than just hint to much more content, and people bought on that assumption. Apple hasn't shown any inclination to budge in their "negotiations" with those content providers though, so very little content is availableless now than before.

I can see some people being frustrated over that.

Thank you for your extended clarification and explanation. It's really not that hard to comprehend but I guess people who have not bought it do not understand the frustration.
post #68 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I think that Jobs called it that because he was unsure how successful Apple would be wooing video content companies, and thus, what the sales would be.

This gave him an oppertunity to downgrade expectations for it before everyone else did.

But, if everything went well, and he was able to bully, er, convince, the content companies to come on board, on his terms, it could have been a big success.

You don't develop an entirely new paradigm for media consumption and distribution overnite. You stake out territory and adjust as necessary. Focusing on 1 year sales of one piece of the puzzle is terribly naive.

But in any event, bully away, Steve.
post #69 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Speak only if you know.
Plasmas don't go below 42 inches.
What are you talking about?????

Um, I own a 37" plasma. Flame only if you know.
post #70 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Unstable- that's an understatment!
OK- then give a recall and a refund to everyone who bought basically an unfinished product. If Apple couldn't deliver on the content then why sell it? The only additional content we got was "smear quality" YouTube videos that are streaming off the internet and can't even be saved on the damn thing! And Apple's iTunes is not providing it either. Either give us the content or open the box to record, surf the internet,etc. And I'm not talking about NBC. I'm talking about all the other major film studios that are not on iTunes. And nothing is even near HD- nothing! And don't tell me trailers!

Would somone just send 'teckstud' a refund so he'll stop pissing and moaning about how he somehow got ripped off by buying something that did exactly what it said it did? (plays the content you give it.)
post #71 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

You don't develop an entirely new paradigm for media consumption and distribution overnite. You stake out territory and adjust as necessary. Focusing on 1 year sales of one piece of the puzzle is terribly naive.

But in any event, bully away, Steve.

No, you don't. you work it out over whatever period it takes before you release it, overnight.

The problem with Jobs & co. is that they have gotten too arrogant. They try to bulldoze their way through everything. Sometimes that works, but sometimes it doesn't.

It worked for music, though now there could be problems. But for movie content, and Tv content, it hasn't worked as well as they thought it would. They thought the studios would roll over for them on the alter of sales, but that didn't happen.

The studios were wary of allowing Apple control over their distribution and prices, after seeing how that worked for the music industry.

Most have not even come to the table, and now one has left and gone elsewhere.

This can't be glossed over the way some want to think it can be. Apple will simply have to give, at least partly.

The industry is evolving, and Apple must evolve with it. There are far more places for this content to be offered.

If Apple isn't careful, someone will hit upon the right combination, and Apple will be left standing alone, or will have to capitulate quickly, the way they did after Amazon started their music service, by lowering the price for DRM-less music. You don't think Apple wanted to do that, do you? For the first time they were caught flatfooted with higher pricing.

This is one reason why there are people who are not happy. They feel as though they are pawns in Apples fights in the industry. What was rightly expected was that more studios would release Tv shows and movies over time, so that now their might be at least a couple of thousand of released movies on the site, including new ones from all distributers.

But, this hasn't happened, and it now looks as though it might never happen.

I'm hoping that there is some work going on behind the scenes that will help to resolve this, but we can't assume that there is.

Hopefully, there will be some good news at MacWorld.
post #72 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Unstable- that's an understatment!
OK- then give a recall and a refund to everyone who bought basically an unfinished product.

Unfinished? If you thought it was unfinished, you shouldn't have bought it. It's pretty idiotic to buy something assuming that it will be improved later on, you have to buy based on what it can do when it ships. I'd love to get an aTV, but I'm waiting until it does everything I want.

And you're misusing the term "lemon" as well, it means something that remains broken regardless of many attempts to fix it. That's not the case with aTV.
post #73 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Unfinished? If you thought it was unfinished, you shouldn't have bought it. It's pretty idiotic to buy something assuming that it will be improved later on, you have to buy based on what it can do when it ships. I'd love to get an aTV, but I'm waiting until it does everything I want.

And you're misusing the term "lemon" as well, it means something that remains broken regardless of many attempts to fix it. That's not the case with aTV.

The product isn't a lemon. It does what it was designed to do, though some of us think that perhaps it should do more.

The service is a lemon though. It's never done what it should have.
post #74 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

1) No, you don't. you work it out over whatever period it takes before you release it, overnight.


2)The industry is evolving, and Apple must evolve with it. There are far more places for this content to be offered.

3)I'm hoping that there is some work going on behind the scenes that will help to resolve this, but we can't assume that there is.
Hopefully, there will be some good news at MacWorld.

1) Sorry, but a V1.0 product is a V1.0 product. 'Don't buy V1.0' is such a cliche that I think people forget that its TRUE.
If it doesn't do what you need, THEN DON'T BUY IT!!!
Its a VERY functional product in its own right. I've known what it did and didn't do from day one. Only the fact that I don't have time to rewire my home system keeps me from getting one to replace my Squeezebox.
I truly don't get the venom from some on this thread (except for the frothing Jobs haters that seem to ooze out all the time.)
It hasn't revolutionized the world yet. Yeah? So?

2) As I see it Apple is driving the evolution. I want them to rip the status quo to shreds, not capitulate to it.

3) We agree there.
post #75 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The product isn't a lemon. It does what it was designed to do, though some of us think that perhaps it should do more.

The service is a lemon though. It's never done what it should have.

Then the venom on this thread should be aimed at iTunes Store, not the AppleTV.
But I disagree even with that. Large HD downloads are just not going to happen from iTunes store yet. Let alone the over-hyped 1080p.

Again. I want Apple to be the biggest bastard on the block when it comes to the media companies. If that means it takes a while to get optimum content, I can wait just fine, thank you.

This 'gimme NOW' rant (whether about iTunes Store, AppleTV or iPhone) really gets embarrassing after a while.
post #76 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

1) Sorry, but a V1.0 product is a V1.0 product. 'Don't buy V1.0' is such a cliche that I think people forget that its TRUE.
If it doesn't do what you need, THEN DON'T BUY IT!!!
Its a VERY functional product in its own right. I've known what it did and didn't do from day one. Only the fact that I don't have time to rewire my home system keeps me from getting one to replace my Squeezebox.
I truly don't get the venom from some on this thread (except for the frothing Jobs haters that seem to ooze out all the time.)
It hasn't revolutionized the world yet. Yeah? So?

2) As I see it Apple is driving the evolution. I want them to rip the status quo to shreds, not capitulate to it.

3) We agree there.

v. 1 has nothing to do with it. That's a poor excuse for a service that has gone nowhere. It isn't the hardware so much that people are complaining about, it's the poor selection of content.

Those few who, illegally rip DVD's aren't complaining. If Apple had supplied what users reasonably expected when they bought the device, they wouldn't be complaining either.

Most of the complaints about the hardware result from the fact that so little content is available, and that's Apple's fault. You really can't explain your way around that.

If more content was available, I suspect that few would be complaining that the ATv doesn't do more. But, with little content available from the expected quarter, they want to be able to get it elsewhere.

That's reasonable.
post #77 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

v. 1 has nothing to do with it. That's a poor excuse for a service that has gone nowhere. It isn't the hardware so much that people are complaining about, it's the poor selection of content.
.

But a wave of what magic wand is supposed to result in an 'all things to all people' content provider, especially this early in the game?
In all sincerity... if iTunesStore isn't providing the content you want, is your browser broken? Got to the store that DOES have it. Oh yeah... there aren't any. Its only Apple that's evil.
post #78 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The service is a lemon though. It's never done what it should have.

Is there any video download service that wouldn't fit that definition of lemon? Wide selection, decent prices, cross platform, downloadable to portable units?

For the record, I was responding to an accusation of the aTV being a lemon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Most of the complaints about the hardware result from the fact that so little content is available, and that's Apple's fault. You really can't explain your way around that.

Are you sure about that? Looking at the threads here, I see tons of complaints about missing features. Surround, 1080, dvr, optical disk.

I'd love to get an updated version of the aTV, and I'd likely buy little if any video content from Apple. I watch tons of video from my iPod, none of it from the iTunes store. Even for music I only have a small amount from iTunes.
post #79 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Then the venom on this thread should be aimed at iTunes Store, not the AppleTV.
But I disagree even with that. Large HD downloads are just not going to happen from iTunes store yet. Let alone the over-hyped 1080p.

Again. I want Apple to be the biggest bastard on the block when it comes to the media companies. If that means it takes a while to get optimum content, I can wait just fine, thank you.

This 'gimme NOW' rant (whether about iTunes Store, AppleTV or iPhone) really gets embarrassing after a while.

The only purpose in life for the ATv that really matters, IS content from the iTunes store. It's pretty obvious what it was intended for. A synergy between the content sold on the store, and a device to distribute it to the point in the home where it will be most effectively viewed.

If either one of those areas fails, the entire premise fails.

Apple is the biggest bastard. What happens to big bastards is that no one plays with them. That's what's happening here.

I had this problem with my own company. My partner had the same ideas about business that Jobs has.

His concept was that if the deals we made pleased our partners, we didn't do well enough. he felt that there was more he could squeeze out of them. Only once he squeezed as much as he could, so that they were unhappy, did he feel that he got as much as he should.

I had to constantly restrain him from his inherent desires.

The problem with Apple is that there is no one to restrain Jobs from his exploiting his same tendency.
post #80 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

But a wave of what magic wand is supposed to result in an 'all things to all people' content provider, especially this early in the game?
In all sincerity... if iTunesStore isn't providing the content you want, is your browser broken? Got to the store that DOES have it. Oh yeah... there aren't any. Its only Apple that's evil.

Just look at the music store. Apple ammassed the biggest catalog in the business. They could have done that with Tv shows and movies as well. Sure, some prices may not make everyone happy, but the content would be there. Apple could compromise on pricing. No company sits down and insists on a final move before working out a deal. That's bad business.
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