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Analyst: iPhone simply isn't meant for enterprise - Page 2

post #41 of 102
12/14/07 at 6:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuencap View Post

My favorite quote from the article:

"As there is currently no way to encrypt the data on an iPhone or remotely block access to the information if the handset is lost or stolen, any information on one of these devices can be easily accessible to a thief"

No kidding a thief is going to be able to access the contents of the phone (if not password protected). If I stole a voyager, a Palm Pilot, a Treo, any Blackberry, I would STILL be able to access the contents of the phone and forward them onto myself within minutes! How does this apply ONLY to the iPhone and not EVERY other phone in the world that is not password protected by the owner?

The IT staff can enforce a policy on other handsets that the handset has a password and that is it is changed periodically. They can't do that with the iPhone.

Once reported as stolen, the handset can be wiped remotely.

The article makes some good points about corporate phones. But ... the market for personal-use phones is much, much larger than the market for corporate phones. Apple has picked its target market, and it will do well. They'll even find their way into corporate accounts without this technology.

Nothing to see here, move along.
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post #42 of 102
12/14/07 at 6:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"...But with a diverse selection of mobile platforms including BlackBerry, Linux, Palm OS, Symbian, Windows CE, Windows Mobile, and now Mac OS X IT cant be expected to support each and every operating system."

That's right, damn iPhone! IT was fine supporting BlackBerry, Linux, Palm OS, Symbian, Windows CE, and Windows Mobile, but OMFG iPhone is the last straw!
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post #43 of 102
12/14/07 at 6:56am
I can never trust a word I hear from Forrester Research. I do agree that the iPhone could have better exchange support and better data protection but Apple is not selling the iPhone as an Enterprise phone. Windows Mobile has its own security problems and I would not trust a plodding sysadmin with erasing my data remotely.

The reason the iPhone is so popular is that it is easy and fun to use. That is kind of hard to say about a Windows mobile device. Look, Word, coooool!
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post #44 of 102
12/14/07 at 7:02am
These guys "Forrester" aren't analysts they're trolls.
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post #45 of 102
12/14/07 at 7:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GVAndy View Post

I don't know why folks make life so hard for themselves. After having every smart phone for the last 10 years the only thing that was consistent is the fact that they sucked. The iPhone is the worlds first functional hand held computer with an integrated cell phone. Given the physical constraints of the form factor Apple had to ditch the keyboard centric model for a new idea all together. The UI is a breakthrough that will not be fully appreciated by IT for a decade. I think that enterprises that don't embrace it do so at their own peril.

Welcome!

I couldn't agree more. In my experience the folks at my workplace who have gotten iPhones are more than happy to use the device despite any perceived limitations. The IT guys don't have to support them because users are actually able to use these phones and figure things out without a lot of hand-holding. I've never been as productive with another phone as I have been with my iPhone. The interface is so intuitive, everyone who tries it loves it.
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post #46 of 102
12/14/07 at 7:38am
[QUOTE=Foo2;1184054]That's a pretty big IF. It just doesn't happen (something cool from Microsoft), so I'm not sure where you're coming from.[QUOTE]

Have you ever heard of the XBOX?
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post #47 of 102
12/14/07 at 7:41am
[QUOTE=teckstud;1184186][QUOTE=Foo2;1184054]That's a pretty big IF. It just doesn't happen (something cool from Microsoft), so I'm not sure where you're coming from.
Quote:

Have you ever heard of the XBOX?
Must you defend the AppleTV and the AppleHIFI?

Ever hear of the "Red Ring of Death"?
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post #48 of 102
12/14/07 at 7:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Have you ever heard of the XBOX?
Must you defend the AppleTV and the AppleHIFI?

XBOX is a financial success while AppleTV and iPod HI-Fi are financial failures?
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post #49 of 102
12/14/07 at 7:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

XBOX is a financial success while AppleTV and iPod HI-Fi are financial failures?

Duh? And it's like - huh, Friday?
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post #50 of 102
12/14/07 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Duh? And it's like - huh, Friday?

Perhaps you should take another look. Apple's products were sold for a profit from day one while MS' were not. Plus MS can't even maintain a lead on installed base of the 360 after a year long head start.
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post #51 of 102
12/14/07 at 7:49am
[QUOTE=roehlstation;1184189][QUOTE=teckstud;1184186]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

That's a pretty big IF. It just doesn't happen (something cool from Microsoft), so I'm not sure where you're coming from.

Ever hear of the "Red Ring of Death"?

No, is that like the "Sad Mac" icon on an iPod?
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post #52 of 102
12/14/07 at 8:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Duh? And it's like - huh, Friday?

A lot or 360s are sold, but it's an open question whether the division can make a profit in the long term. So yes, it's certainly a success in terms of pushing boxes out (nearly 14M of them), but not a financial success for the company, at least not yet. IIRC, the only times MS sees a net profit from the division are the quarters that they release Halo. The model they worked from does work, but I think they pushed it a bit too far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Perhaps you should take another look. Apple's products were sold for a profit from day one while MS' were not. Plus MS can't even maintain a lead on installed base of the 360 after a year long head start.

Not leading in itself doesn't mean failure, but they do eventually need to make a consistent profit on it to make it sustainable.

Apple does have up-front costs that must be paid back, so if Apple doesn't push the volume they expected, it's possible for them to lose money. I think the gross margin on something like the AppleTV was tighter than their other products as well.
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post #53 of 102
12/14/07 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Duh? And it's like - huh, Friday?

'Duh' to you.

The Entertainment and Devices Division of MSFT (which consists of "Xbox 360 console and games; Xbox Live; Zune; Mediaroom; numerous consumer software and hardware products; Windows Mobile software platform; Windows Embedded device operating system; and Windows Automotive") had the following operating incomes for the past few years:

FY2005: $ - 464 million
FY2006: $ -1284 million
FY2007: $ -2066 million

http://www.microsoft.com/msft/report...fr_not_17.html

(According to separate reports, of the $2.066 billion in operating losses in FY2007, $1.89 billion is estimated to have come out of the Xbox division.)
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post #54 of 102
12/14/07 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

'Duh' to you.

The Entertainment and Devices Division of MSFT (which consists of "Xbox 360 console and games; Xbox Live; Zune; Mediaroom; numerous consumer software and hardware products; Windows Mobile software platform; Windows Embedded device operating system; and Windows Automotive") had the following operating incomes for the past few years:

FY2005: $ - 464 million
FY2006: $ -1284 million
FY2007: $ -2066 million

http://www.microsoft.com/msft/report...fr_not_17.html

(According to separate reports, of the $2.066 billion in operating losses in FY2007, $1.89 billion is estimated to have come out of the Xbox division.)

Your anaylsis is flawed.
I'm talking XBOX as a device as a success and your mixing in zune, XBOX devision, etc?
Would you mix in an AppleTV with an iPhone when discussing iPhone? Or an iPod HIFI when discussing a Nano's success?
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post #55 of 102
12/14/07 at 9:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Your anaylsis is flawed.
I'm talking XBOX as a device as a success and your mixing in zune, XBOX devision, etc?
Would you mix in an AppleTV with an iPhone when discussing iPhone? Or an iPod HIFI when discussing a Nano's success?

He did say: "$1.89 billion is estimated to have come out of the Xbox division."

You seem to be comparing AppleTV and iPod Hi-Fi to other offerings by Apple. When you compare the AppleTV to other media extenders, or even the TiVo, the AppleTV appears to be the winner despite its codec and DVR shortcomings.
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post #56 of 102
12/14/07 at 9:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuhowe View Post

Yep - I am the same guy.

And at my old age I am smart enough to A) Not drink anyone's Kool Aid and B) Read between the lines when something is called "research" and published for the world to read.

In the case of B, I usually ask myself - who did this research? What is their expertise on the subject? Are they impartial and/or reputable? And most importantly - where do they get their funding? Who sponsored the research and did the sponsor have any agenda in doing so?

I think Forrester, in particular, has an easily researched (pardon the pun) track record and an example has already been posted above regarding Linux.

Nothing more to say on this - just would ask things be kept civil.

Well said.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #57 of 102
12/14/07 at 9:22am
"...especially as most users are likely to leave their iPhones without a password lock for convenience's sake, the expert says."

So let me get this straight: The iPhone is not secure because it's more convenient to leave them unlocked?

WHAT AN IDIOT!!!
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post #58 of 102
12/14/07 at 9:25am
Sending or receiving a contact is impossible!!!!!!!

this is one of the most basic features of any phone since at least 2000 why is it missing!!!!

AAAAARRRRRGRGRGRGRGHHHH
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post #59 of 102
12/14/07 at 9:39am
The whole notion of thieves, security, and the iPhone makes me laugh...

Like anyone stealing your iPhone is going to want ANY of your work data or contacts --

They want the music and videos. They could care less about who your contact is, what your calendar looks like, or how much money your company has invested in some stock or another.

Better yet -- they want to wipe your iPhone clean and sell it as fast as they can to the next con on the block who will then use it for THEIR music and videos...

Besides, this entire research project was funded by Microsoft...of course you get a "not good for enterprise" spin -- they want you to buy WM6 devices.
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post #60 of 102
12/14/07 at 9:51am
I like the concept that "it isn't that device XXXX isn't compatible with Exchange, it's that Exchange isn't compatible with device XXXX."

Absolutely. Instead of whining that the iPhone doesn't work with the proprietary Exchange, they should flush Exchange and replace it with open-source solutions.

I do not like IT people. At all. I have had enough of their Window-everywhere bullshit, which gives them job security because Windows crap is needing to be fixed 24/7.
--Johnny
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--Johnny
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post #61 of 102
12/14/07 at 10:42am
Xbox 360 is pretty cool, and I had one until the dreaded red ring of death. They did fix it in their defense but I mean dam I dropped almost 400 on something that worked for 1 year. The design flaw is more disturbing to me however especially the fact that their new design is almost identical to the completely flawed one pertaining to the heat sink or lack of one for the processors.
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post #62 of 102
12/14/07 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuhowe View Post

Rant/

Good Lord!!! Is this Forrester Research dump on Apple Week or what? First it was McQuivey and now this? Seriously, read between the lines here - FUD - likely funded by MS interests. Good Lord!

/End Rant

Seriously gang - this is really bizarre. Of COURSE the iPhone does not support Exchange. Exchange is a CLOSED system - not an OPEN standard. Hello?? Anybody home at Forrester?? Why not write a piece about MS Exchange not supporting the iPhone. Or MS not using open software? What is REALLY holding up innovation and interoperability? Or should I say WHO?

Really, this crap is getting old fast...


Tis the Season!

Stu


Pretty sharp, Stu. I will be filing this one with the Dell quote and the Buisness Week article telling Apple what a giant mistake retail store will be.
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post #63 of 102
12/14/07 at 11:07am
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE USER EXPERIENCE, STUPIDS!

Good God, when will these tools finally figure it out? Execs will KEEP buying iPhones along with every one else because they are a better EXPERIENCE, whether or not they have the FEATURES of a Crackberry.
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post #64 of 102
12/14/07 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by echosonic View Post

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE USER EXPERIENCE, STUPIDS!

Good God, when will these tools finally figure it out? Execs will KEEP buying iPhones along with every one else because they are a better EXPERIENCE, whether or not they have the FEATURES of a Crackberry.

Features do weigh heavily on the user experience. Since I don't require Exchange or use SMS/MMS with frequency I find the iPhone experience quite extraordinary, but I can see how it can be considered a poor user experience outside the US or in business for lacking such features despite the groundbreaking UI.
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post #65 of 102
12/14/07 at 11:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Your anaylsis is flawed.
I'm talking XBOX as a device as a success and your mixing in zune, XBOX devision, etc?
Would you mix in an AppleTV with an iPhone when discussing iPhone? Or an iPod HIFI when discussing a Nano's success?

Hey buddy: Read the whole post in the future, before blowing off. Thanks.
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post #66 of 102
12/14/07 at 11:32am
And, to add to the above: Perhaps you could spend some time finding out whether the claim that "Xbox is sold at a loss" is true (Hint: Google). You might actually learn something.
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post #67 of 102
12/14/07 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Hey buddy: Read the whole post in the future, before blowing off. Thanks.

I did, my friend, and the analysis is flawed. Would you talk about the iPod division when discussing shuffle sales? No. Would you talk about the success of the iPod divsion when discussing iPhone sales.? No.
Just because Microsoft has a success with XBOX, do you have to spit food?
Facts are facts- face them. XBOX is and has been outselling Playstation, by almost 2 to 1. Google that. Better yet:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...the-roost.html
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post #68 of 102
12/14/07 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

And, to add to the above: Perhaps you could spend some time finding out whether the claim that "Xbox is sold at a loss" is true (Hint: Google). You might actually learn something.

So your rationale is that even if it's leading in martket share but sold at a loss it's a failure?
-Not to the consumer who is buying it at a profit! Now that's biased.
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post #69 of 102
12/14/07 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I did, my friend, and the analysis is flawed. Would you talk about the iPod division when discussing shuffle sales? No. Would you talk about the success of the iPod divsion when discussing iPhone sales.? No.
Just because Microsoft has a success with XBOX, do you have to spit food?
Facts are facts- face them. XBOX is and has been outselling Playstation, by almost 2 to 1. Google that. Better yet:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...the-roost.html

And the Wii has been outselling the 360 by how many to one? Why do you graze over this fact? The PS3--like the 360--is a financial disaster for their respective companies.

So why don't they seem to mind hemorrhaging so much money in these areas? IMO, MS does it maintain a hold on DirectX and Sony is trying to beat out HD-DVD with their Blu-ray optical media.

Regardless of the reasoning behind it, success in business is measured by profit, something that the 360 is not achieving.
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post #70 of 102
12/14/07 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

So your rationale is that even if it's leading in martket share but sold at a loss it's a failure?
-Not to the consumer who is buying it at a profit! Now that's biased.

Guess what their market share would be if they gave it away for free -- i.e., they less at a 100% loss? That would be an even greater success?

If someone has to start to convince you that there's a correlation between 'profits' and 'success' in a capitalist/free-market economy, frankly, neither you nor that person will have the time in a forum such as this. Better to enroll in a couple of basic courses in economics and finance.
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post #71 of 102
12/14/07 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Regardless of the reasoning behind it, success in business is measured by profit, something that the 360 is not achieving.

Again you keep tacking things on to what I say. Success is also measured in market share which the XBOX has way over the Playstation. Second only to the Wii- which by the way in low def has no internet functions and is not comparable really. If its a high def comparison only, the XBOX slams the playstaion in share.
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post #72 of 102
12/14/07 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Second only to the Wii- which by the way in low def has no internet functions and is not comparable really.

Wii has internet functions, through WiFi too. There's a web browser. Where did you dig up that lie?
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post #73 of 102
12/14/07 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Guess what their market share would be if they gave it away for free -- i.e., they less at a 100% loss? That would be an even greater success?

If someone has to start to convince you that there's a correlation between 'profits' and 'success' in a capitalist/free-market economy, frankly, neither you nor that person will have the time in a forum such as this. Better to enroll in a couple of basic courses in economics and finance.

I am so sorry that you have such bitter grapes against Microsoft. You're right- every thing they have is a failure including Excel, which any finance course in any University would utilize- not Numbers '08 , my friend.
Such anger - maybe you should "enroll" some time with a therapist.
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post #74 of 102
12/14/07 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Again you keep tacking things on to what I say. Success is also measured in market share which the XBOX has way over the Playstation. Second only to the Wii- which by the way in low def has no internet functions and is not comparable really. If its a high def comparison only, the XBOX slams the playstaion in share.

You are right. I keep tacking on facts and logic to your FUD. How dare I do such a thing! Again, you fail to mention the Wii. Which has the most marketshare and is the only new console being sold at a profit. As for installed base the PS2 is still reigning champ by a longshot.

FYI, I will continue to "tack on things to what you say" when you conveniently choose not to discuss all the details just to make your point.
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post #75 of 102
12/14/07 at 1:39pm
Dear teckstud ,

You have yet to get a single fact correct. People have tried to correct your errors, but you blindly continue to quote incorrect information compounding any meaningful discussion. Why?
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
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post #76 of 102
12/14/07 at 1:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickag View Post

Dear teckstud ,

You have yet to get a single fact correct. People have tried to correct your errors, but you blindly continue to quote incorrect information compounding any meaningful discussion. Why?


Dear rickag,

What are you talking about? What error? Ok the Wii does have internet capabilty. My fault- typo. But exactly what information are you bringing to this discussion except pure condensention? And why?
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post #77 of 102
12/14/07 at 1:48pm
I'm done with this conversation. The only one more foolish than the fool is the one thinking he can teach the fool.
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post #78 of 102
12/14/07 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I am so sorry that you have such bitter grapes against Microsoft. You're right- every thing they have is a failure including Excel, which any finance course in any University would utilize- not Numbers '08 , my friend.
Such anger - maybe you should "enroll" some time with a therapist.

The part you quoted didn't mention Microsoft once. It wasn't specifically about Microsoft in any gruge that I'm aware of. Winning market share by losing money five years in a row qualifies as a Pyrrhic victory. On the other hand, Excel really is making Microsoft a net profit and probably has been from the first year. They're on the opposite ends of the spectrum as far as I'm concerned.

There's an expression that I heard, it's not hard to sell a dollar for fifty cents.
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post #79 of 102
12/14/07 at 2:00pm
teckstud, you have stated the following

"Your anaylsis is flawed"
"Just because Microsoft has a success with XBOX"
"So your rationale is that even if it's leading in martket share "
"no internet functions"
"I am so sorry that you have such bitter grapes against Microsoft."

All of these are wrong and demonstrably so.

Back on topic:

Here's an interesting nugget.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/1...share-q3-2007/
Quote:
Apple iPhone Already Leads Windows Mobile in US Market Share, Q3 2007

As stated above, the current iPhone did not and does not include enterprise. Yet, it now leads Windows Mobile. I guess the consumer market might really be larger than enterprise.

And will Apple attempt more enterprise sales, well this might provide a clue.

http://arstechnica.com/journals/appl...change-support

Quote:
Apple job posting hints at improved iPhone Exchange support

Exciting times to be an AAPL stock holder.
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
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post #80 of 102
12/14/07 at 2:02pm
[QUOTE=teckstud;1184199][QUOTE=roehlstation;1184189]
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


No, is that like the "Sad Mac" icon on an iPod?

Well, we didn't have 20 iPods come back to the store yesterday because of that. I do however have 20 XBoxes sitting there defective. Didn't MS have to extend warranty out to 3 years because of that?
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