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Apple iPhone (2.5G EDGE) vs. Nokia E61i (3G UMTS) website loading shootout

post #1 of 33
12/14/07 at 6:30am
Thread Starter 
Imagine how quickly a 3G iPhone will render pages compared to other smartphones. I can't wait! If the Edge iPhone is doing so well the 3G iPhone will surely kick ass.

Many have criticized Apple for choosing the "much slower," but much less power-hungry EDGE (2.5G) over the supposedly faster, but battery-draining UMTS (3G). In a test conducted by the German-language iPhone Infoblog, WLAN on both phones is deactivated.

The iPhone, thanks to a faster processor and the superior Webkit-based Safari Web browser, is in the same league with the Nokia E61i when loading websites.

For example, the Die Zeit website loaded fully in 76 seconds vs. 79 seconds for the Nokia. The Nokia loaded eBay fully in 26 seconds vs. 30 seconds for iPhone. ApplePhoneInfo tested their own site and the iPhone loaded it in 0:31 vs. the Nokia's 0:27.

• http://macdailynews.com/index.php/we...omments/15751/
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post #2 of 33
12/14/07 at 8:52am
Also with its slow EDGE the iPhone's browser is used just as much as nearly everyone else combined.





The YouTube video between the iPhone and Nokia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzETYbGEqgo
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post #3 of 33
12/14/07 at 8:56am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Also with its slow EDGE the iPhone's browser is used just as much as nearly everyone else combined.]

Someone read Roughly Drafted today.
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post #4 of 33
12/14/07 at 2:32pm
You have to love Daniel Eran Dilger's completely unbiased reporting. He is the über fanboi!

"I found the numbers through Symbian anyway, in a little publicized document designed to boost moral among Symbian backers. It was a fortunate find, because paying for the report from Canalys is expensive and I didnt want to have to wait another three weeks to to hear Steve Jobs announce the numbers at Macworld Expo."

Yes, that little publicized document called Symbian's About page on their website that they've had up and running for years.

"Symbian prefers to publish worldwide market share numbers to minimize its rapidly shrinking presence in the North American market. Since 2004, Symbian has slid from owning more than a quarter of that market to less than 5%."

Nothing to do with Nokia and Sony Ericsson finding it hard to sell 3G handsets into a backward country with carriers that don't want smartphones outside of enterprise and business users perhaps?

The US accounts for less than 10% of the smartphone market Worldwide. What happens in the USA means bugger all frankly.

What a tosser! All the deductive reasoning of a halibut.


The E61i btw, uses a 220Mhz ARM9 CPU and runs WebKit so that's not a bad comparison at least on software. It'll be quite an old version of WebKit though. The iPhone runs a 412Mhz ARM CPU and probably a newer version of WebKit and Javascript which have both significantly sped up in Safari 3.0 so possibly on the iPhone also.

Generally Symbian based phones have quite slow CPUs compared to more power hungry phones that run WinMo or even Palm. The top end N95/N82 are only a 332Mhz ARM11. - http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/N82
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post #5 of 33
12/14/07 at 2:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

The E61i btw, uses a 220Mhz ARM9 CPU and runs WebKit so that's not a bad comparison at least on software. It'll be quite an old version of WebKit though. The iPhone runs a 412Mhz ARM CPU and probably a newer version of WebKit and Javascript which have both significantly sped up in Safari 3.0 so possibly on the iPhone also.

Generally Symbian based phones have quite slow CPUs compared to more power hungry phones that run WinMo or even Palm. The top end N95/N82 are only a 332Mhz ARM11. - http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/N82

This shows that iPhone will kick some major ass when a 3G version becomes available.

edit: Just realized I said the same in my initial post. \
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post #6 of 33
12/14/07 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

This shows that iPhone will kick some major ass when a 3G version becomes available.

edit: Just realized I said the same in my initial post. \

Haha ... thats okay ... it was worth repeating.
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post #7 of 33
12/14/07 at 7:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Imagine how quickly a 3G iPhone will render pages compared to other smartphones. I can't wait! If the Edge iPhone is doing so well the 3G iPhone will surely kick ass.

Many have criticized Apple for choosing the "much slower," but much less power-hungry EDGE (2.5G) over the supposedly faster, but battery-draining UMTS (3G). In a test conducted by the German-language iPhone Infoblog, WLAN on both phones is deactivated.

The iPhone, thanks to a faster processor and the superior Webkit-based Safari Web browser, is in the same league with the Nokia E61i when loading websites.

For example, the Die Zeit website loaded fully in 76 seconds vs. 79 seconds for the Nokia. The Nokia loaded eBay fully in 26 seconds vs. 30 seconds for iPhone. ApplePhoneInfo tested their own site and the iPhone loaded it in 0:31 vs. the Nokia's 0:27.

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/we...omments/15751/

Heh, I predicted this - that the iPhone web browsing experience on EDGE would be about the same as 3G phones because of CPU limitations - months and months ago. And if my 500 MHz iBook is any condition, Adobe Flash won't be pretty at all. It's unusable on my 1G iBook.

Anyways, here's another interesting side-by-side comparison, Smartphone Show 48.
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post #8 of 33
12/14/07 at 7:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by THT View Post

Heh, I predicted this - that the iPhone web browsing experience on EDGE would be about the same as 3G phones because of CPU limitations - months and months ago. And if my 500 MHz iBook is any condition, Adobe Flash won't be pretty at all. It's unusable on my 1G iBook.

Anyways, here's another interesting side-by-side comparison, Smartphone Show 48.

That is good since the iPhone is most compared to the Nokia N95 with 8GB more than any other phone.

(FYI:The comparison starts at 4:18 into the vid. Also, the guy is surprisingly unbiased and actually credits the Phone's virtual keyboard as being faster than the N95's physical keyboard, something that seems to marked as a huge negative when compared to other smartphones.)
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post #9 of 33
12/31/07 at 2:07am
I personally use both.
Coupled, you have everything, alone; each device has its fault.
It's simple.
With the N95
5mp, high quality video recording, business oriented apps, 3G, and bluetooth works with all devices.
The bad side is that it crashes a lot, has low ram, and in my opinion is slow.
With the iPhone
you get a lovely GUI which is both fast and intuitive.
Great web browsing experiences
Best MP3 player ever.
Lots of nice apps (once hacked)
8GB of space.
The bad side is that it's missing a lot like SMS forwarding, no video recording.
See what experienced guys are saying about N95 vs iphones at: http://www.swotti.com/mobilephones/
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post #10 of 33
12/31/07 at 2:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Also with its slow EDGE the iPhone's browser is used just as much as nearly everyone else combined.





The YouTube video between the iPhone and Nokia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzETYbGEqgo

Im sorry that chart is for what the US only?
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post #11 of 33
12/31/07 at 2:36am
It doesn't matter, 3G is bigger than 2.5G. That's all that matter to some people, apparently.
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post #12 of 33
12/31/07 at 2:38am
Of course it is. In places like the UAE some networks have full rollout of 7.2mbps HSDPA. Are you seriously going to sit there and tell us that EDGE is better than 3G? LOL
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post #13 of 33
12/31/07 at 2:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

Im sorry that chart is for what the US only?

Don't know, but that youtube showing the iPhone and the Nokia is from Germany. But 3G is bigger than 2.5G, so that's all that matters, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

Of course it is. In places like the UAE some networks have full rollout of 7.2mbps HSDPA. Are you seriously going to sit there and tell us that EDGE is better than 3G? LOL

All else being equal, no. But all else isn't equal, is it, and that's what these types of tests show.
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post #14 of 33
12/31/07 at 3:26am
As I pointed out earlier, the E61(i) is using an ARM9 CPU that's less than a third as powerful as the later N series (ARM11) and has no GPU at all. The E61(i) hardware was released in 2005. It's almost 3 years old now. The ARM9 CPU dates back to 1997. The phone is no better than a Blackberry. Total shite.

The S60 browser on the E61 is roughly Safari 1.3 level in sophistication but also renders flash-lite and java. It's no wonder it'd be slower even if the hardware was comparable.

It does show that there are other important factors in choosing a phone for web browsing than just 3G or not... like looking at the specs for the hardware to see if you're buying a creaky old lemon or not. We do that when buying a laptop, why is it disregarded with a phone?

edit: Perhaps I'm being too harsh on the E61. It's a business phone afterall, not a multimedia computer. It's most important assets are push email, exchange support and ability to be used as a 3G modem for a businessperson's laptop - none of which an iPhone does.
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post #15 of 33
12/31/07 at 4:16am
Not to mention it also has bluetooth profiles for file transfer mms and all the rest....
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post #16 of 33
1/1/08 at 4:04am
It'd say this wasn't really a surprise since EDGE and basic 3G aren't really all that far from each other in terms of speed.
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post #17 of 33
1/1/08 at 7:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

Of course it is. In places like the UAE some networks have full rollout of 7.2mbps HSDPA. Are you seriously going to sit there and tell us that EDGE is better than 3G? LOL

UAE? How many dozens of 3G iPhones will Aple sell there?

'LOL' is right.
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post #18 of 33
1/1/08 at 7:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejohn48 View Post

I personally use both.
Coupled, you have everything, alone; each device has its fault.
It's simple.
With the N95
5mp, high quality video recording, business oriented apps, 3G, and bluetooth works with all devices.
The bad side is that it crashes a lot, has low ram, and in my opinion is slow.
With the iPhone
you get a lovely GUI which is both fast and intuitive.
Great web browsing experiences
Best MP3 player ever.
Lots of nice apps (once hacked)
8GB of space.
The bad side is that it's missing a lot like SMS forwarding, no video recording.
See what experienced guys are saying about N95 vs iphones at: http://www.swotti.com/mobilephones/

Here's another view:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/07/h...ge-nokias-n95/

Wow, even if half of this stuff is true, I sure am glad I don't own an N95! Sounds to me like a poorly designed, super-clunky, frustratingly slow, caveman-GUI device.
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post #19 of 33
1/1/08 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Here's another view:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/07/h...ge-nokias-n95/

Wow, even if half of this stuff is true, I sure am glad I don't own an N95! Sounds to me like a poorly designed, super-clunky, frustratingly slow, caveman-GUI device.

N95 was a great phone but had many problems. Build of the slider was crap, not enough RAM resulted in out of memory errors and crashes. N95 8gb has rectified all of those issues. But name any other device on the market which can match the N95 8gb in terms of features.
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post #20 of 33
1/1/08 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

N95 was a great phone but had many problems. Build of the slider was crap, not enough RAM resulted in out of memory errors and crashes. N95 8gb has rectified all of those issues. But name any other device on the market which can match the N95 8gb in terms of features.

Yup. It was pretty much the same for all the early Symbian 9.x phones. IMHO Symbian screwed up when they changed from OS7 to OS9's memory model. In OS7, applications used 'execute in place' - they ran in the same space as they were stored in. In OS9 they moved to a traditional computer memory model where the application is loaded into RAM and executed there, so you need twice the storage. The first OS9 phones, despite having more RAM than the older OS7 phones ended up running out of RAM quickly. On the P990 it would close down applications or the entire phone even in order to gain back RAM. Users got used to killing apps with SwissManager - ie. manually managing memory usage. They partly improved it about a month after launch but it a stinking plaster.

SE and Nokia 'fixed' this by just adding more RAM in the P series and later N series than they had in the earlier P990 and early N series. They also reduced the memory usage on some key apps. All the fix really seems to do though is extend how long it takes before your phone ends up next to useless and needs a reboot.

And that's why I've kept my p910i and I'm skipping the current Symbian phones till they properly sort out the memory handling. I'd have bought an iPhone in a shot if it had the features of even my p910i and wasn't so expensive. Then again, the rumoured SE P5i looks pretty exciting.
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post #21 of 33
1/1/08 at 2:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavlondon2 View Post

N95 was a great phone but had many problems. Build of the slider was crap, not enough RAM resulted in out of memory errors and crashes. N95 8gb has rectified all of those issues. But name any other device on the market which can match the N95 8gb in terms of features.

'Features' matter little to the average user unless they can be easily accessed and used.

Many of the comments on the engadget.com link seem to refer to the 8GB version.

On top of it all -- of course I realize that this is completely subjective -- I think the N95 looks quite unattractive.
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post #22 of 33
1/1/08 at 3:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

'Features' matter little to the average user unless they can be easily accessed and used.

They matter a whole load more than 'little' when they aren't there though.

I also find it a little patronising that you seem to think the S60 interface is somehow beyond the abilities of the kind of geek that wants an N95 multipurpose brick.
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post #23 of 33
1/1/08 at 7:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

They matter a whole load more than 'little' when they aren't there though.

I also find it a little patronising that you seem to think the S60 interface is somehow beyond the abilities of the kind of geek that wants an N95 multipurpose brick.

1) [Lots of use]*(Fewer relevant apps) > [Little use]*(LOTS of not-so-relevant apps).

2) We'll see what S60 amounts to if/when it actually shows up in use. I'll keep an open mind.
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post #24 of 33
1/2/08 at 3:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

1) [Lots of use]*(Fewer relevant apps) > [Little use]*(LOTS of not-so-relevant apps).

ok, but the iPhone is currently [No use]*(No relevant apps) for many people.

If the iPhone doesn't have the app or function you need then the few apps it does well are totally irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

2) We'll see what S60 amounts to if/when it actually shows up in use. I'll keep an open mind.

S60 is on it's 3rd edition (and feature pack 2 of that). A naming convention worse than Microsoft.
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post #25 of 33
1/2/08 at 5:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

ok, but the iPhone is currently [No use]*(No relevant apps) for many people.

If the iPhone doesn't have the app or function you need then the few apps it does well are totally irrelevant.



S60 is on it's 3rd edition (and feature pack 2 of that). A naming convention worse than Microsoft.

Yeah I can't wait for FP2. N96 should be the first device to use FP2.
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post #26 of 33
1/2/08 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

S60 is on it's 3rd edition (and feature pack 2 of that). A naming convention worse than Microsoft.

Ah, FP2 of the 3ed. of S60 for the N95/96! That's easy ....
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post #27 of 33
1/2/08 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Ah, FP2 of the 3ed. of S60 for the N95/96! That's easy ....

And the that's just the UI. The OS underneath is Symbian OS v9.x (I think it's 9.1 on the N95).
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post #28 of 33
1/2/08 at 12:48pm
9.2 actually.

http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n95-1716.php
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post #29 of 33
1/2/08 at 2:38pm
i've found this to be true myself. i previously had a palm 700p and a moto q on verizon's ev-do service. while they both serve very well as mobile modems, when you browse on the phone interface itself they're not much faster at all than the iphone on 2.5g. in fact, i'd say that the productivity edge (so to speak) goes to the iphone by a large margin. blazer and ie mobile both render pages so strangely that some sites are nearly unusable. iphone safari is amazing as a web browsing experience on a small device. i use my iphone for web browsing more than i did my treo and my moto q.
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post #30 of 33
1/3/08 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Im sorry that chart is for what the US only?

The chart represents all mobile web browsers for websites that participate in the survey. Since web traffic can come from anywhere in the world I doubt it is being segregated to the US.
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post #31 of 33
1/3/08 at 2:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The chart represents all mobile web browsers for websites that participate in the survey. Since web traffic can come from anywhere in the world I doubt it is being segregated to the US.

Where 'participate in the survey' = run Hitslink.com's counter.

I've usually got very little faith in web analytics software, especially companies like NetApplications or Hitwise but you can obviously see there's something up with their stats when Windows Mobile is three times more widely used than Series60. Either their sampling is wrong or their user agent sniffing is wrong.

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/repo...ame=M&qpsp=107

It must be pretty tricky to keep up with user-agents in mobile phones especially when fighting over less than 1% of the market.
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post #32 of 33
1/3/08 at 3:34pm
Quote:
I've usually got very little faith in web analytics software, especially companies like NetApplications or Hitwise but you can obviously see there's something up with their stats when Windows Mobile is three times more widely used than Series60. Either their sampling is wrong or their user agent sniffing is wrong.

I guess it can also depend on the participating sites. But I also found it curious that Windows was so much larger too.
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post #33 of 33
1/3/08 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I guess it can also depend on the participating sites. But I also found it curious that Windows was so much larger too.

The stats would tally with US patterns for mobile phones of course so if the participating sites are almost entirely US based then it kind of makes sense as the US market is a entirely different to the rest of the world.

Running a hosting company, I get to see the actual stats for the sites I host. I host a lot of cycling sites given my background and people I know in that industry. I compared the stats Hitwise were publishing in the cycling sector a while back. I hosted 4 of their top ten IIRC at the time and knew the stats of the No.1 site in the UK, since I own a third of it. It just didn't bear any reality to our actual stats or indeed the ranking of the sites I knew the stats of although it was kind of weird knowing our site was busier than the BBC's RadioTimes and Cosmopolitan.
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