Bhutto Killed in Suicide Attack - Page 5

Pakistan gets in on the election fraud act. It appears that Bhutto was about to blow the whistle, and someone (s?) in the Musharraf camp must have taken a dim view of that...

I started out in this conversation criticizing a predictable phenomena, not any person. Since you say you don't support any "absurdities which have emerged to fill the vacuum", then you shouldn't have my criticism as against you, directly or indirectly. I won't deny that I was thinking about the kinds of things you and others have said, but I wasn't aiming anything at you or even any specific comment in the thread by you.

You started get personal about it. You leaped to the defense of the absurdities you supposedly don't support. I responded in kind when you got personally insulting. It's merely a snide rhetorical trick to accuse someone of a "temper tantrum" for that. I've seen internet temper tantrums... and nothing I've said or done comes anywhere close.

For all you piss and moan about the lies of government, you're not very honest yourself. You haven't lied in the sense of directly insisting on any counter-factual claim. No, instead you emulate the more insidious forms of lying, the Ari Fleischer kind of lie, where you avoid answering tough questions, characterize those who disagree with you as "cowards" or in league with the enemy (like trying to characterize me as some sort of secret Bush fan -- which anyone who has really read my posts here would find utterly laughable), and use weasel phrases like "just asking questions" to cover the kind accusations and assumptions (which perhaps someone occasionally takes the trouble to veil as leading questions) put forth by the so-called "truth movement".


I said a good principle to follow is presuming incompetence over malice, especially in light of a lack of evidence. I never said incompetence explained everything -- especially when there is good evidence to the contrary.

But you're such a champion of truth I shouldn't have to explain this stuff. Is it malice or incompetence the drives you to use gross oversimplifications of your opponents positions in trying to gain a rhetorical advantage -- much as your hero Ari would do? (And yes, that's sarcasm. While I'll use that kind of sarcasm for a much deserved dig, I'm not going to pretend that Ari Fleischer really is your hero, and rhetorically try to twist you into a position of defending that veiled charge -- that's your kind of trick.)

There's plenty of evidence of cronyism and ass-covering in the Bush administration. I hardly deny that. And all it takes to get incompetent people who don't lose their jobs is cronyism and ass-covering. Cronyism and ass-covering can definitely rise to criminal levels -- and I'll readily believe that about the Bush administration.

I hate Bush administration policies. I think the administration is corrupt and dishonest and that they caused enormous damage to this country and the world. But I guess I'm still cutting them "slack" until what? What exactly is the next step I'm supposed to take (presumably in the form of "just asking questions") to gather up all this excess slack I'm supposedly handing out?

Buchanan weighs in: The Impotent Hegemon As usual, a little harsh, but more right than wrong.


and

The problem with the USA is the Military-industrial complex.

Can't argue with that.

Jean Charles de Menezes, 1978-2005. Citizen of Brazil, murdered in cold blood by terrorists, Stockwell, London, UK.

R.I.P.

Benazir Bhutto hit with laser beam technology

Hey, stop that! These guys are just asking questions! What's your problem with just asking questions?

Evidently lots of people have lots of problems with that. People "asking questions" obviously have an evil agenda designed to bring down hallowed institutions. And we are now an era where the legions who believe implicitly that those in positions of power are all benevolent, honest, decent, harmless, gracious law-abiding people who always have the wellbeing of the people as their primary concern. That's why they are in office! You don't need to ask questions of them: its an unpatriotic action deserving of being put in the stocks and pelted with ... tinfoil hats. Don't forget: war is peace, and freedom is slavery....

The Pakistani officials have changed their story 3 times now. Of course, on each of those occasions, they must be telling the truth; after all, Musharraf is one of Bush's #1 allies in his war of terror, and and it is not polite to challenge him. Anyone who doubts his honesty must be worthy of a tinfoil hat.

And some people have a problem of equating stupid theories about attack lasers with "asking questions".

Some people have a problem with equating well-earned skepticism concerning stupid theories with belief in the innocence of the people blamed in the stupid theories.

Actually, this is Bhutto's PPParty stating the "laser" thang.


Honestly, they are all a bunch of liars.

Some people seem to have a problem with basic comprehension.


The laser attack is a stupid theory, without proof. Had it come forth from official sources, there would be a far greater chance of your believing it, as with "death by sunroof lever".

Please do point out what exactly I've failed to comprehend.

Thank you. Odd how you seemed to feel the need to leap to the defense of a joke at the expense of that stupid theory, however.

Death by sunroof lever, however unlikely, is at least an order of magnitude more likely than employing secret lasers when good old fashioned bullets and bombs, available and used on the scene, were more than sufficient to do the job.

Death by sunroof lever would also, even if true, be still be an entirely moot point, because anyone making an obvious attempt to kill a person should be held entirely responsible and just as guilty for frightening their target into a deadly accident.

How many people angry over the assassination of Bhutto would have their anger assuaged by the sunroof explanation, or redirect their anger because of it? As a lie, it's a pretty pointless and stupid lie, which is why I'd be more likely to attribute the sunroof lever explanation to incompetence and the confusion of the moment than to the malice of deliberate propaganda. Of course, it could be both -- incompetent propaganda.

Exactly. There need not be an elaborate plot to kill her.

Now that's reasonable.

I'd have to agree, if anyone knows what it really takes to stay alive in the big PK, it would be Mushy.

Although the line from Gladiator rings true: they have to kill your name first, before they kill you. I'm not certain M needs this headache.

The big problem with many Conspiracy (with a capital C) theories is that they require you to believe in a particularly bizarre mix of supposed slip-ups that are apparently blindingly obvious to the loud-mouth guy sitting at the bar pontificating about all that's wrong with the world, combined with incredible competence at pulling off masterfully orchestrated plans of secrecy and deception.

In the real world, powerful people often abuse their power to do stupid things which are likely to come back and bite them in the ass -- which is exactly what Musharraf has done here, whether his complicity in Bhutto's death was direct, or indirect via weakening or neglect of her security.

Then again, perhaps the Puppet Masters needed to first kill Bhutto, then kill Musharraf later, and everything is going according to The Plan.

Rather than a "failure to comprehend", which I take back, the subtle implication on your part, was that I acknowledged the "laser" theory. I didn't say or intend to mean anything of the kind, but perhaps you felt you needed to raise the connection, and hence make the accusation.


Agreed. I never implied anything of the kind, and I am as skeptical as you are re. laserbeans killing Bs. Bhutto.


Again, I concur.


According to the videos, of which there are many, and were available for public viewing quickly after the killing, it was obvious that guns were fired: picture and sound confirms it (unless the gun/s were faked?). Bhutto's doctor was pressurized not to say things..why?. The police allegedly prevented surgeons from performing an autopsy... why? The Pakistani authorities changed their story 3 times: Why? This could spell incompetence, for sure. It could also imply a degree of guilt. Perhaps an element of both is the likeliest scenario? Bhutto was a popular challenger for the Musharraf regime, and she was aware of possible vote rigging in the forthcoming elections, and she was likely to go public with this. There was motivation to silence her.

It seems odd that the Pakistani authorities would go for such an unlikelihood for a cause of death when the apparent cause was staring everyone in the face from the get go: perhaps he and his admin., as an prime ally of Bush in the war-of-terror, felt they could (also) get away with murder, and nobody would turn a hair.

The truth almost always falls somewhere in the middle of two (wildly) opposing explanations for a controversial event.

sammi jo, like 9/11, there are just too many things that could go wrong to look for a conspiracy. I think segovius' point is valid, all Musharraf would have to do is not have that extra shift of ISI show up to work on a particular day -- or even give a security detail to a bunch of N00bs.

Having been shot at himself, M wouldn't have had to make this complicated. At the same time, I doubt he runs through town with his head sticking out of a sunroof: Bhutto was killed doing something very risky.

I agree. But I would also add that to deliberately "pull security" sounds a tad malicious; mere "incompetence" doesn't quite cut it, IF that is what happened.


Again, agreed. She did something highly reckless, to the point of stupidity, especially in an unstable Pakistan under thug rule. Having just returned there after years in exile, she knew full well that her opposition wouldn't think twice about terminating either her political career or her life.

I think that is a nice, concise summary of the situation.

Just a bump. Saw this over at AmericanThinker.com.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3177691.ece

Although I don't think it necessarily invalidates any of the above posts.

Al-Qaeda, the new hippies...\

Ha! Who knew Howard Stern would finally slip over the edge!

Al Qaeda has a new secret lethal weapon: Sunroof levers in cars.

Look out America... and be patriotic: report any car that has a sunroof to Homeland Security...

Everybody panic, there be white Al-Qaedas now!

Anyway, sort of on topic.

Pakistan president tells US to stay out


Down boy. Be a good U.S. lackey dog. Good boy...