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Why Don't Atheists Focus on the Islamist Religionists?  

post #1 of 118
Thread Starter 
Why Don't Atheists Focus on the Islamist Religionists?

Whenever I read anything about Atheists they are roiling at Christians, but Christians are pretty peaceful and aren't using terrorism to spread their religion around the world or practicing racism and bigotry.

So, why aren't the Atheists focusing their efforts on the Islamists?
post #2 of 118
The mists are clearing... through the crystal I see a small-troll like wizened figure hunched and stooping - it seems he is feverishly working at some fruitless task of no discernible value to anyone.

Wait....there is another figure....a dark and menacing stranger - he holds something that looks like a tranquilizer dart and a padlock...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #3 of 118
You must have, because all they teach you there is dogma!

By the way, could you stop asking rhetorical questions, because,

sputter, ..., sputter,

your trolling motor is quickly running out of gas.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
post #4 of 118
Why should they focus on any religion in specific? Maybe what you are noticing is that most of the atheists you know or know of are surrounded by, wait for it... waaaaait... Christians!
post #5 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

Why should they focus on any religion in specific? Maybe what you are noticing is that most of the atheists you know or know of are surrounded by, wait for it... waaaaait... Christians!

He doesn't know what he's talking about anyway.

Hitchens, one of the most rabid and vocal of the Neo Atheists - as well as being one of the most rabid supporters of Bush and the Iraq war (or maybe just Bush) - often foams frothingly about Islam in a way our native troll-like friend would wholeheartedly approve of if he had any real interest in things he rants about.

I have been re-reading some Hitchens lately and have come to realize his position - apart from the Bush support - is pretty close to my own believe it or not.

What he criticizes is Islamism and, unlike some other 'atheist thinkers' he not only makes a distinction between Islam and the fundies but he also correctly notes the great debt the west owes to islam and the tolerant society that islam once was.

Quote:
The struggle against theocratic fascism should, therefore, be inseparable from the struggle for a truly secular state. This need not mean an atheist state; the religious impulse itself seems to be partly innate at our present stage of evolution. But it need not necessarily take the extremely backward form that it assumes in our society, nor need its recognition eventuate in the present sickly "multiculturalism," whereby all forms of religious stupidity are granted equal "respect" while challenges to, say, scientific teaching are greeted with nervous tolerance.

Little, Brown has chosen the perfect moment to publish The Ornament of the World, by Maria Rosa Menocal. It is a history of medieval "Al-Andalus," or Andalusia: a culture where there was extensive cooperation and even symbiosis among Muslims, Jews and Christians, and where civilization touched a point hardly surpassed since fifth-century Athens. Indeed, that comparison itself is not inapt. It was the Abbasid caliphs of Baghdad in the ninth and tenth centuries who sponsored the translation of the whole corpus of Greek philosophy into Arabic, thus preserving it from the ban on philosophy that had been imposed by the first Christian emperors. It was the Arab-Andalusian scholar Averroës, known also as Ibn Rushd, who later, in the twelfth century, made his commentaries on Aristotle available to the Latin-speaking world, where they were yet again banned by the Church fathers before finally being recovered by Europe. So it is no exaggeration to say that what we presumptuously call "Western" culture is owed in large measure to the Andalusian enlightenment.

The migration of Arabic-speaking intellectuals to the southern Spanish cities of Córdoba and Granada, and the magnetic pull exerted on Jewish scholars, was also to have revolutionary effects on the study of medicine--with early Greek texts again revived through translation--and upon the writing of poetry. Menocal has a wonderful chapter on the love poems of the era and on Ibn Hazm's The Neck Ring of the Dove, a handbook on romance and a memoir of old Córdoba. We tend to forget that Maimonides, another great figure of this culture, wrote almost all his major works--with the exception of the Mishneh Torah--in Arabic. Nothing could be more remote from the bleak and arid doctrines of the Taliban.

However, it was not Muslim but Christian intolerance that put an end to Andalusia. By 1492 their Catholic majesties Ferdinand and Isabella had completed the reimposition of orthodoxy and begun the expulsion of the Jews and Moors. It was to the Muslim world that the Jews then looked for safety. This book partly restores to us a world we have lost, a world for which our current monotheistic leaderships do not even feel nostalgia.

The God Squad

So the answer of why atheists do not 'attack Islam' is twofold:

1) All reasonable and sane people, whether atheist or otherwise, oppose insane and dangerous ideas wherever they arise.

Atheists are actually constantly doing this in regard to fundies of all types - Christian, Muslim or other - as are other rational thinkers.

2) Such sane and rational thinkers draw a distinction between the irrational and the rational - as Hitchens does above. He does not castigate the whole of Islam for the insanity of the modern fundies for example.

Our questioner, being a troll, is not interested in any of these nuances, nor even a debate on the issue as the the (non) thinking behind the original post is based on the assumption that the atheists are somehow 'scared into submission' by the 'evil Islamic thugs'.

I don't personally believe they are but I am quite happy to sponsor a research trip by Mr Mojo to the most radical jihadi mosque we can find where he himself can remedy the atheist's shortcomings by informing the congregation of his own particular piquant views on their theological perspective.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #6 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

Why Don't Atheists Focus on the Islamist Religionists?

Whenever I read anything about Atheists they are roiling at Christians, but Christians are pretty peaceful and aren't using terrorism to spread their religion around the world or practicing racism and bigotry.

So, why aren't the Atheists focusing their efforts on the Islamists?

The Christianity that I hate the most is US evangelical Christianity, and I hate it on aesthetic grounds - it just seems ugly to me. The buildings are ugly, the ceremonies are ugly, and the whole thing is just depressing (with the sole exception being the black churches where they sing a lot). Also, it gets in my way by opposing scientific research, and butting into the lives of people, like gays and women, that I care about.

Other churches I kind of like, because they are cool looking and old and mysterious. I love the church of the holy sepulcher in Jerusalem, for example, with the green robed guys and all. I love the giant stone buildings, and the swinging smoking things that the Catholics wave around, I love the ceremony. The ideal religion to me is one that is really old, with lots of cool buildings and ceremonies, but that does not poke its nose into other peoples business via legislating morality - US Christianity fails these tests on all counts, which is why I hate the whole thing.

Radical Islam is just as bad as US Christianity based on their tendency to legislate moral codes that I disagree with, but they are quite a bit more beautiful in other respects (buildings, old stuff, ceremonies). Also, US Christianity is closer to home, the busybodies of that religion affect me a whole lot more than the busybodies of Islam do.

When I think of Islam, I think of exotic places, belly dancers, flying carpets, etc - it sparks my imagination to life. When I think of US Christianity I think of fat smelly old stupid people in ugly buildings, passing laws that I hate.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
post #7 of 118
I think he is a little miffed that atheists are equally tolerant (or intolerant in some cases) of all religions and thinks Christianity should be a special case or something.

Whatever.
post #8 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Hitchens, one of the most rabid and vocal of the Neo Atheists - as well as being one of the most rabid supporters of Bush and the Iraq war (or maybe just Bush) - often foams frothingly about Islam in a way our native troll-like friend would wholeheartedly approve of if he had any real interest in things he rants about.

And I'll just add that the most prominent atheist in the US, Sam Harris, doesn't support Bush or the Iraq war (as far as I know), but is very critical of Islam.
post #9 of 118
In the US, Christianity (actually a perverted form of Christianity) is far more invasive than Islam. We don't have to listen to claims that this is "an Islamic Nation" or that the founding fathers "meant for us to follow Islam". We get this from the pseudo Christians every day.
traveling the globe in an envelope
traveling the globe in an envelope
post #10 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

Why Don't Atheists Focus on the Islamist Religionists?

Whenever I read anything about Atheists they are roiling at Christians, but Christians are pretty peaceful and aren't using terrorism to spread their religion around the world or practicing racism and bigotry.

So, why aren't the Atheists focusing their efforts on the Islamists?

Because atheists and Muslims are -- essentially -- in the same metaphysical camp, both have been deceived by the same entity. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

If Christians at large behaved like Muslims at large, I'd be typing this from a concentration camp.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #11 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

If Christians at large behaved like Muslims at large, I'd be typing this from a concentration camp.

You mean from the headquarters?
post #12 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

And I'll just add that the most prominent atheist in the US, Sam Harris, doesn't support Bush or the Iraq war (as far as I know), but is very critical of Islam.

It is interesting that article - Harris seems to take a position in stark contradiction to Hitchens.

As Harris has it:

Quote:
Mainstream Islam itself represents an extremist rejection of intellectual honesty, gender equality, secular politics and genuine pluralism. The truth about Islam is as politically incorrect as it is terrifying: Islam is all fringe and no center. In Islam, we confront a civilization with an arrested history. It is as though a portal in time has opened, and the Christians of the 14th century are pouring into our world.

Or, put another way, this is the view that the extremists ARE Islam. The two are one and the same.

Hitchens has it the other way round in the quote I posted above.

It is odd isn't it - we have the pro-Bush, pro-war Hitchens on an atheist agenda but having the intellectual honesty to actual make a distinction between Islam and the extremists DESPITE having the right-wing stuff and support of the WOT going on.

And we have Harris who doesn't seem to buy into that Bush/war view yet has the more 'traditional' right-wing anti-Islam bias.

Strange world.

Oh, and the 'facts' that he cites in his article (Harris) are not correct. either he is a bad researcher, an ignorant one or he is lying. Either way he should take a leaf from Hitchens.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #13 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

You mean from the headquarters?

Good one.

Although, if you had ~25% of evangelicals in America who thought violence to establish a theocratic system was justified, I just might be.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #14 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

Because atheists and Muslims are -- essentially -- in the same metaphysical camp, both have been deceived by the same entity.

You mean...S.S..S.S.S.S.S.S.....S..S...Satan??!?!?!?!

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #15 of 118
S-s-s-s-some-w-w-w-won said the 's' w-w-w-word???? I'm ascared!
post #16 of 118
Just for reading this thread we are all going to be a little hot once we move on. Better stock up on sun-tan lotion.

I just love the use of fear to persuade people to your way of thinking. Believe in what I believe or suffer the consequences.

Mmmm. Heard that one discussed before...

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

post #17 of 118
I wonder what happens if we play this thread backwards? \
"Stand Up for Chuck"
"Stand Up for Chuck"
post #18 of 118
WE'RE ALL GOING TO HELL!



BUT DMZ AND ALL HIS FRIENDS ARE GOING TO HEAVEN!

Wait.

Hang on.

WE'RE ALL GOING TO HELL!

post #19 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan i Sabbah View Post

WE'RE ALL GOING TO HELL!



BUT DMZ AND ALL HIS FRIENDS ARE GOING TO HEAVEN!

Wait.

Hang on.

WE'RE ALL GOING TO HELL!


Did you ever see that film where there were all these people on a boat that never seemed to go anywhere (what was that called?) and as the movie progressed they realized one by one that they were all dead and in hell?

Maybe it will be something like that - maybe we'll all be in some indescribably banal and horrible place all still arguing unaware that..........uh-oh....wait.........
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #20 of 118
No but I remember the Simpsons episode along those lines: Kidney Trouble
post #21 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Did you ever see that film where there were all these people on a boat that never seemed to go anywhere (what was that called?) and as the movie progressed they realized one by one that they were all dead and in hell?

Maybe it will be something like that - maybe we'll all be in some indescribably banal and horrible place all still arguing unaware that..........uh-oh....wait.........

This is impossible, segovious.

dmz is still here, and it is quite, quite impossible for him to be in Hell.
post #22 of 118
I set forth the good ship AppleOutsider to set sail the fiery seas of hell...anyone want a recap of how Christianity was entirely founded on sun-worship?

nnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
post #23 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

He doesn't know what he's talking about anyway.

Hitchens, one of the most rabid and vocal of the Neo Atheists - as well as being one of the most rabid supporters of Bush and the Iraq war (or maybe just Bush) - often foams frothingly about Islam in a way our native troll-like friend would wholeheartedly approve of if he had any real interest in things he rants about.

I have been re-reading some Hitchens lately and have come to realize his position - apart from the Bush support - is pretty close to my own believe it or not.

What he criticizes is Islamism and, unlike some other 'atheist thinkers' he not only makes a distinction between Islam and the fundies but he also correctly notes the great debt the west owes to islam and the tolerant society that islam once was.



The God Squad

So the answer of why atheists do not 'attack Islam' is twofold:

1) All reasonable and sane people, whether atheist or otherwise, oppose insane and dangerous ideas wherever they arise.

Atheists are actually constantly doing this in regard to fundies of all types - Christian, Muslim or other - as are other rational thinkers.

2) Such sane and rational thinkers draw a distinction between the irrational and the rational - as Hitchens does above. He does not castigate the whole of Islam for the insanity of the modern fundies for example.

Our questioner, being a troll, is not interested in any of these nuances, nor even a debate on the issue as the the (non) thinking behind the original post is based on the assumption that the atheists are somehow 'scared into submission' by the 'evil Islamic thugs'.

I don't personally believe they are but I am quite happy to sponsor a research trip by Mr Mojo to the most radical jihadi mosque we can find where he himself can remedy the atheist's shortcomings by informing the congregation of his own particular piquant views on their theological perspective.

Just because one leading Atheist criticizes Islamism does not absolve the rank and file from the expectation that they would apply their anti-religion efforts to all religions.

Do you not read English well? Do you casually misinterpret what you read? Do you spin your opponents' words to your advantage?

You speak of nuance? Well try this, Sparky:

Quote:
Why Don't Atheists Focus on the Islamist Religionists?

--My Wording

Quote:
So the answer of why atheists do not 'attack Islam' is twofold:

--Your Deficient Paraphrase

And why is this important?

Well, because you would keep your minions in the dark about such things, I am here to shed some light on the matter.



"Islamic terrorism is an immediate derivative of Islamism. This term distinguishes itself from Islamic by the fact that the latter refers to a religion and culture in existence over a millennium, whereas the first is a POLITICAL/RELIGIOUS phenomenon...'Islamism is defined as an Islamic military, anti-democratic movement...whose final aim is the Caliphate'"

So why would you defend Islamism, segovius?
post #24 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

The Christianity that I hate the most is US evangelical Christianity, and I hate it on aesthetic grounds - it just seems ugly to me. The buildings are ugly, the ceremonies are ugly, and the whole thing is just depressing (with the sole exception being the black churches where they sing a lot). Also, it gets in my way by opposing scientific research, and butting into the lives of people, like gays and women, that I care about.

Other churches I kind of like, because they are cool looking and old and mysterious. I love the church of the holy sepulcher in Jerusalem, for example, with the green robed guys and all. I love the giant stone buildings, and the swinging smoking things that the Catholics wave around, I love the ceremony. The ideal religion to me is one that is really old, with lots of cool buildings and ceremonies, but that does not poke its nose into other peoples business via legislating morality - US Christianity fails these tests on all counts, which is why I hate the whole thing.

Radical Islam is just as bad as US Christianity based on their tendency to legislate moral codes that I disagree with, but they are quite a bit more beautiful in other respects (buildings, old stuff, ceremonies). Also, US Christianity is closer to home, the busybodies of that religion affect me a whole lot more than the busybodies of Islam do.

When I think of Islam, I think of exotic places, belly dancers, flying carpets, etc - it sparks my imagination to life. When I think of US Christianity I think of fat smelly old stupid people in ugly buildings, passing laws that I hate.

The Islamists are like KKKers + US Evangelicals on steroids and hallucinogens.

You would not like them at all.

They want you dead.

Whereas US Evangelicals ONLY want you to live as a second class citizen.
post #25 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

I think he is a little miffed that atheists are equally tolerant (or intolerant in some cases) of all religions and thinks Christianity should be a special case or something.

Whatever.

Nah, I'm tired of the Atheists' hypocrisy.
post #26 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

So why would you defend Islamism, segovius?

Depends what you mean - if you mean defending something you yourself define then I would have to say that as you are clearly not intellectually equipped to deal with these issues and yet simultaneously driven by an inner animus that dictates you try to do so, then I would say I am not defending 'Islamism' but rather defending reason as to accept your terms is - by definition - an insult to reason.

Alternatively, if one accepts your position, for the sake of argument, then, equally, it would be necessary for any thinking person to position him or herself in the diametrically opposite corner.

Of course there is also the alternative view where I actually do know about Islam - unlike you - and one could argue from that perspective but I feel that is a tad too advanced right now.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #27 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

Nah, I'm tired of the Atheists' hypocrisy.

But they speak so well of you
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #28 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

The Islamists are like KKKers + US Evangelicals on steroids and hallucinogens.
You would not like them at all.
They want you dead.
Whereas US Evangelicals ONLY want you to live as a second class citizen.

Only?

Quote:
It is difficult to determine precisely how many children in the United States lose their lives every year as the result of the phenomenon that has come to be known as religion-based medical neglect. A landmark study published in the journal Pediatrics uncovered more than 150 reported fatalities over a 10-year period – a tally that one of the study’s authors later said represented only “the tip of the iceberg” of a surprisingly pervasive problem. Assessing whether forms of religion-related child abuse pose a greater risk to children than more widely publicized threats, such as ritual satanic abuse, a wide-ranging study funded by the National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect concluded that “there are more children actually being abused in the name of God than in the name of Satan.”

Abusing Children in the Name of God
post #29 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

Nah, I'm tired of the Atheists' hypocrisy.

What hypocrisy?

Allah is as stupid as Jesus.

The difference is that muslims are not in my backyard trying to take away my rights.

For an atheist in the US, who is a greater threat for his rights and freedoms? Christians or muslims?

Now, if i were an atheist in Saudi Arabia on the other hand...
post #30 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

And I'll just add that the most prominent atheist in the US, Sam Harris, doesn't support Bush or the Iraq war (as far as I know), but is very critical of Islam.

But where do we see the rank and file following his example?

To use an analogy, when the rank and file are rioting in the streets and their leader tells them it is wrong and that they should stop yet they don't listen, then you might fault the leadership but you might also fault the followers, or in this case the NOT followers.

And in the case of Atheists I am not criticizing Hitchens or Harris, I'm addressing the actions or inaction or mis-directed actions of the rank and file. Those who loudly proclaim and defend and propound a Godless philosophy when it pertains to Christianity, and particularly, American Christianity. But when it comes to Islamism, a movement that is ultra religious and a group whose goal is the destruction of the very things Atheists CLAIM they believe in, the rank and file Atheists are nowhere to be heard or seen.

It seems they hide behind the Christians' coattails as the Christians try to defend the Atheists' right to be hypocrites.
post #31 of 118
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #32 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

Those who loudly proclaim and defend and propound a Godless philosophy when it pertains to Christianity, and particularly, American Christianity. But when it comes to Islamism, a movement that is ultra religious and a group whose goal is the destruction of the very things Atheists CLAIM they believe in, the rank and file Atheists are nowhere to be heard or seen.



Where do you live?

I am sure if you are surrounded by christians that are very vocal against Islamic terrorism it is hard to hear the atheist voice, as it is more easily eclipsed by the much louder (think O'Reilly, literally) christians.
post #33 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat Stanley View Post

In the US, Christianity (actually a perverted form of Christianity) is far more invasive than Islam. We don't have to listen to claims that this is "an Islamic Nation" or that the founding fathers "meant for us to follow Islam". We get this from the pseudo Christians every day.

Let me get this straight, even though the plane is going down you don't care just as long as you don't have to sit by a Christian?

Christianity is not an existential threat to America's Constitutional liberties, freedoms and tolerance.

Islamism is.

So you think the smart thing is to leave Islamism free to do it's thing while you focus on Christians.
post #34 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@Artman View Post

Abusing Children in the Name of God

This is where you guys get into trouble. "150 deaths in 10 years" is not statistically significant -- neither are all the Phelps and JesusCamps combined. Insane, yes, but not representative -- it never amounts to more than tiny fractions of a percent of the people they purport to represent.

True, countries/movements are generally run by motivated minorities, 5-10% of the population is enough to swing things in a power structure.

But try repairing a church in Turkey or Egypt or proselytizing/apostatizing in Iran -- pick a Muslim country -- and what happens is the norm, not the exception. This is what is ignored. The rest is doubletalk. Were Christians persecuting Muslims at the same intervals, things would be much different.

Don't be deceived.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #35 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Just for reading this thread we are all going to be a little hot once we move on. Better stock up on sun-tan lotion.

I just love the use of fear to persuade people to your way of thinking. Believe in what I believe or suffer the consequences.

Mmmm. Heard that one discussed before...

The thread title is hardly one designed to do anything but make one think.

Why Don't Atheists Focus on the Islamist Religionists?


Tell us what you are smoking, please?
post #36 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

This is where you guys get into trouble. "150 deaths in 10 years" is not statistically significant -- neither are all the Phelps and JesusCamps combined. Insane, yes, but not representative -- it never amounts to more than tiny fractions of a percent of the people they purport to represent.

This might be what they really meant by "tip of the iceberg"...all religions combined?
post #37 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Depends what you mean - if you mean defending something you yourself define then I would have to say that as you are clearly not intellectually equipped to deal with these issues and yet simultaneously driven by an inner animus that dictates you try to do so, then I would say I am not defending 'Islamism' but rather defending reason as to accept your terms is - by definition - an insult to reason.

Alternatively, if one accepts your position, for the sake of argument, then, equally, it would be necessary for any thinking person to position him or herself in the diametrically opposite corner.

Of course there is also the alternative view where I actually do know about Islam - unlike you - and one could argue from that perspective but I feel that is a tad too advanced right now.

Tap dance all you wish. Keep your fans entertained. Entertainment is good. It's good except when it distracts from the important task of looking at the facts facing America and the free world.

By and large, Atheists are hypocritically avoiding criticizing Islamists while the Islamists work to take away all our rights and freedoms.
post #38 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

Islamists work to take away all our rights and freedoms.

Your own governement is doing that far more effectively than the Islamists.

Unless domestic policy is made in afghanistan caves.
post #39 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post



Where do you live?

I am sure if you are surrounded by christians that are very vocal against Islamic terrorism it is hard to hear the atheist voice, as it is more easily eclipsed by the much louder (think O'Reilly, literally) christians.

Just as we judge the size and importance of an anti-war rally by the media so would we get indications of healthy Atheist opposition to Islamism via the media.

And what do we hear from Atheists?

Christians...blah, blah, blah...Evangelicals...blah, blah, blah...Pat Robertson...blah, blah, blah...fundies...blah, blah, blah...right wing Christian conservatives...blah, blah, blah...

But when it comes to Islamism this is what we hear.

*crickets*
post #40 of 118
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

Your own governement is doing that far more effectively than the Islamists.

Unless domestic policy is made in afghanistan caves.

Hyperbole much?
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