AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Why Don't Atheists Focus on the Islamist Religionists?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Why Don't Atheists Focus on the Islamist Religionists? - Page 3  

post #81 of 118
1/3/08 at 3:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat Stanley View Post



but you seem to think we should fear the Muslims in our country? They want to put our woman in burkas and make us grow beards and unibrows?

I think we should be aware of those who express a desire to have a different form of government.

I think we should look carefully at what the long term affects of Islamic immigration has been in Europe and to pay attention to what the Islamists themselves are telling us.

I think we should unapologetically seek to preserve the ever changing but essentially American character and flavor of our culture so that no one group might overwhelm the majority.
post #82 of 118
1/3/08 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

more internet terrorism

Its fucking crazy how smart these cave dwellers are

First of all they get norad to stand down.

Then they get us to invade Afghanistan, then Iraq, costing us trillions of $ from our ecomony and slowly bankrupting the state.

They bogged us down in a war, where we can only lose.

And the resource that funds their antics increases in value by 400% in 5 years, ensuring that there are ample funds diverted to their cause.

They maintain this charade by getting western reporters to film them burning US flags on TV some 5000 miles away, knowing this gets shown to the domestic audience, who literally shit themselves if they see an angry Arab.

If it was survival of the fittest - you'd have to side with the cave dwellers, because we in the west are severely retarded.

As it says in some old tome. The meek will inherit the earth.

Blessed are the cheesemakers.
post #83 of 118
1/3/08 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

To use a baseball analogy, the teams in the American League battle each other throughout the year and the teams in the National League play each other almost exclusively. And then at the end of the season there are playoffs and finally there is a contest, the World Series, to determine the ultimate champion between the AL champs and the NL champs.

But the answer is that these words:

are not ONLY for Salafists or Khomeinists.

They are for all Islamists.

http://www.futurejihad.com/index.php...d=138&Itemid=1

I suppose one is entitled to believe whatever one likes. Even that the world is flat, that Bush is a good President or that the sun goes round the earth.

It's up to anyone person to choose and obviously, each will - as you have done - choose in accordance with his level of intelligence and understanding. Or agenda. Same thing more or less.

This is Muhammad's Last Sermon which although it stresses women's rights and racial equality, strangely, does not say what you claim anywhere.

Still, as I say, you are free to believe it does and others may even choose to believe you, each according to his intelligence and reasoning capacity.

It's the ultimate justice in a way.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #84 of 118
1/3/08 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

Maybe you are right. The Jihadists have already infected our government as well as the British and Europeans governments and the Jihadists are making us crazy.

If we didn't know the jihadists, the governments, and the Christian Right and the hidden Zionist regime were one and the same entity working for the same agenda...

..we could argue that the minority Jihadists were smart enough to scare people like you en masse into forcing their governments into committing metaphorical suicide of a liberal tolerant state, and forcing their theocratic agenda through by sleight of hand.

Of course, this cannot be true, because a couple of stupid fucks living in caves in Afghanistan do not have control over the entire might, foreign policy and economic muscle of the western world.

As it stands, the terrorism committed today, did not stem from Islam, but from the Right Wing Christian Fundamentalist/Zionist regime born and bred right at home and put into power by their own psuedo-terrorist acts comitted on an unsuspecting population mentally paralysed by their masters propagandic campaign of fear of the imaginary bogeymen.

How does it feel to be a tool? Wake up and see the light
post #85 of 118
1/3/08 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

This is Muhammad's Last Sermon which although it stresses women's rights and racial equality, strangely, does not say what you claim anywhere.

It's always good to hear how open-minded the prophet Muhammad was, but whatever the reasons are, Muslim nations simply don't operate that way today.

The reality of how Christians are dealt with is Kafkaesque. Violence in general and death for apostasy is a reality, as are the regulations against repairing churches, restrictions surrounding membership, proselytization, what services can be performed and when, and on, and on, and on. This is normal -- varying only in extent -- for all Muslim nations.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, segovius.

edit: some links...

http://www.economist.com/world/inter...ry_id=10311317

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...QyOWQyZDM1OGI=

a more general link:

feed://persecution.com/news/rss.cfm

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #86 of 118
1/3/08 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

It's always good to hear how open-minded the prophet Muhammad was, but whatever the reasons are, Muslim nations simply don't operate that way today.

The reality of how Christians are dealt with is Kafkaesque. Violence in general and death for apostasy is a reality, as are the regulations against repairing churches, restrictions surrounding membership, proselytization, what services can be performed and when, and on, and on, and on. This is normal -- varying only in extent -- for all Muslim nations.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, segovius.


Likewise Jesus' teaching and Christianity of today (and the last 1800 years)

Why dont you come over to the dark side? We're not evil misguided people, infact, if the prophets were to reappear today, we're the ones they would hang with
post #87 of 118
1/3/08 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat Stanley View Post

Radicals waving the Islam banner are not to be confused with Islam. Muslims are a minority in the US and don't really bother anyone.

Yes they are a minority...as are caucasians in Southern California. But, depending on who is counting, there are between 8 and 20 million muslims in the US. People who believe the NeoCon propaganda machine, echoed by large portions of the corporate media, must probably be very afraid: Ahmed and his legions of brothers and sisters all belong to some al Qaeda sleeper cell, and their life's mission is "to get us".

Quote:
Another answer, and one that many will disagree with: Political correctness. Many atheists lean liberal want to be PC and not offend Muslims. Celebrating Islam in the public square is “cultural sensitivity” while celebrating Christmas in the public square is a violation of separation.

Politically correct? Ha! Much of "Middle America" ( I dislike that term, but I cant think of anything more appropriate right now) think that "political correctness" is for wimps, or "faggots", name the insult of your choice. Much of Middle America refer to Muslims as "sand-niggers" or "rag-heads", or worse. Most of America can't even distinguish between Sikhs and Muslims, for an example. "They're all terrorists as far as I'm concerned"... I hear that kind of stuff every day, in real or virtual life. You can see it on youtube replies, or the old yahoo news comments section, amongst many. Why even engage in a response? Its pointless, a waste of time and energy.

The opinions expressed on this board (with some exceptions of course) are very mild (almost twee) compared to much of the bile thats out there.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
post #88 of 118
1/3/08 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

Likewise Jesus' teaching and Christianity of today (and the last 1800 years)

Why dont you come over to the dark side? We're not evil misguided people, infact, if the prophets were to reappear today, we're the ones they would hang with

Ha! Don't tempt me!

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #89 of 118
1/3/08 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

People who believe the NeoCon propaganda machine, echoed by large portions of the corporate media, must probably be very afraid: Ahmed and his legions of brothers and sisters all belong to some al Qaeda sleeper cell, and their life's mission is "to get us".

I think the turrurrism thing is rightly going away, if only through short attention spans. If there is a "threat" it's simply a long-term consequence of what bubbles up at large in Islamic society. I don't want to live in a culture where I have to get a special permit to attend a church service.

What remains to be seen are the people within Islam who are willing to put their lives on the line to reform it from within. (Something that can't be forced with any magic foreign policy formula.)

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #90 of 118
1/3/08 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

Ha! Don't tempt me!

oh come on! its not so bad over here.

We can change the world by purging ourselves of all the political & religious bullshit and just go back to the pure persuit of scientific discovery and philosophical wisdom.

But we have to start with ourselves first. One at a time.
post #91 of 118
1/3/08 at 4:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

oh come on! its not so bad over here.

We can change the world by purging ourselves of all the political & religious bullshit and just go back to the pure persuit of scientific discovery and philosophical wisdom.

But we have to start with ourselves first. One at a time.

I'll have to get back to you on that, I got Philosophy for Dummies as a gag gift for Christmas...

...we'd still get to keep Christmas, yes?


It's either that or I was thinking of writing my congressman to start a war on something relevant --like emo kids shooting up universities and shopping malls. I'm not certain AQ could keep up if they wanted to.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #92 of 118
1/3/08 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

...we'd still get to keep Christmas, yes?

does the sun rise every morning?
post #93 of 118
1/3/08 at 5:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

The United States was BORN a VERY religious nation

That would be arguable given your founding fathers deist leanings and the influence Thomas Paine had on the US's formation.
post #94 of 118
1/3/08 at 6:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Yes they are a minority...as are caucasians in Southern California. But, depending on who is counting, there are between 8 and 20 million muslims in the US. People who believe the NeoCon propaganda machine, echoed by large portions of the corporate media, must probably be very afraid: Ahmed and his legions of brothers and sisters all belong to some al Qaeda sleeper cell, and their life's mission is "to get us".



Politically correct? Ha! Much of "Middle America" ( I dislike that term, but I cant think of anything more appropriate right now) think that "political correctness" is for wimps, or "faggots", name the insult of your choice. Much of Middle America refer to Muslims as "sand-niggers" or "rag-heads", or worse. Most of America can't even distinguish between Sikhs and Muslims, for an example. "They're all terrorists as far as I'm concerned"... I hear that kind of stuff every day, in real or virtual life. You can see it on youtube replies, or the old yahoo news comments section, amongst many. Why even engage in a response? Its pointless, a waste of time and energy.

The opinions expressed on this board (with some exceptions of course) are very mild (almost twee) compared to much of the bile thats out there.


I wasn't thinking of "middle America". I was thinking of above average educated liberal atheists.
traveling the globe in an envelope
traveling the globe in an envelope
post #95 of 118
1/3/08 at 6:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

I think we should be aware of those who express a desire to have a different form of government.

I think we should look carefully at what the long term affects of Islamic immigration has been in Europe and to pay attention to what the Islamists themselves are telling us.

I think we should unapologetically seek to preserve the ever changing but essentially American character and flavor of our culture so that no one group might overwhelm the majority.


The culture continues to evolve. It's the way the US works. Do we need a Hitler like figure to keep us pure?
traveling the globe in an envelope
traveling the globe in an envelope
post #96 of 118
1/3/08 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat Stanley View Post

I wasn't thinking of "middle America". I was thinking of above average educated liberal atheists.

About 10% of Americans identify as Atheist. Assuming equal proportions of conservative, middle of the road and liberal atheists, thats about 3% for liberal atheists. 50% of those (by definition) would be of 'above average' education.. so we're down to 1.5% now. A tiny blip, compared to the religious majority.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
post #97 of 118
1/3/08 at 9:18pm
There are some good arguments in here, but why bother starting a discussion if you aren't willing to listen?

Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
post #98 of 118
1/3/08 at 9:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

Its fucking crazy how smart these cave dwellers are

First of all they get norad to stand down.

Then they get us to invade Afghanistan, then Iraq, costing us trillions of $ from our ecomony and slowly bankrupting the state.

They bogged us down in a war, where we can only lose.

And the resource that funds their antics increases in value by 400% in 5 years, ensuring that there are ample funds diverted to their cause.

They maintain this charade by getting western reporters to film them burning US flags on TV some 5000 miles away, knowing this gets shown to the domestic audience, who literally shit themselves if they see an angry Arab.

If it was survival of the fittest - you'd have to side with the cave dwellers, because we in the west are severely retarded.

As it says in some old tome. The meek will inherit the earth.

Blessed are the cheesemakers.

Isn't it a pity that the West won't just submit to Islamism?

Tsk. Tsk.
post #99 of 118
1/3/08 at 9:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I suppose one is entitled to believe whatever one likes. Even that the world is flat, that Bush is a good President or that the sun goes round the earth.

It's up to anyone person to choose and obviously, each will - as you have done - choose in accordance with his level of intelligence and understanding. Or agenda. Same thing more or less.

This is Muhammad's Last Sermon which although it stresses women's rights and racial equality, strangely, does not say what you claim anywhere.

Still, as I say, you are free to believe it does and others may even choose to believe you, each according to his intelligence and reasoning capacity.

It's the ultimate justice in a way.....

WOW!

THANK YOU, SEGOVIUS!

You have enlightened me.

Now all you need to do is discover the name of the forum where OBL and the millions of other Jihadists around the world hang out and you can enlighten them too and we will all be able to worship as we like.
post #100 of 118
1/3/08 at 9:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

If we didn't know the jihadists, the governments, and the Christian Right and the hidden Zionist regime were one and the same entity working for the same agenda...

..we could argue that the minority Jihadists were smart enough to scare people like you en masse into forcing their governments into committing metaphorical suicide of a liberal tolerant state, and forcing their theocratic agenda through by sleight of hand.

Of course, this cannot be true, because a couple of stupid fucks living in caves in Afghanistan do not have control over the entire might, foreign policy and economic muscle of the western world.

As it stands, the terrorism committed today, did not stem from Islam, but from the Right Wing Christian Fundamentalist/Zionist regime born and bred right at home and put into power by their own psuedo-terrorist acts comitted on an unsuspecting population mentally paralysed by their masters propagandic campaign of fear of the imaginary bogeymen.

How does it feel to be a tool? Wake up and see the light

It isn't the cave dwellers who are exerting control, the orders are interpreted from the Koran.
post #101 of 118
1/3/08 at 9:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

It's always good to hear how open-minded the prophet Muhammad was, but whatever the reasons are, Muslim nations simply don't operate that way today.

The reality of how Christians are dealt with is Kafkaesque. Violence in general and death for apostasy is a reality, as are the regulations against repairing churches, restrictions surrounding membership, proselytization, what services can be performed and when, and on, and on, and on. This is normal -- varying only in extent -- for all Muslim nations.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, segovius.

edit: some links...

http://www.economist.com/world/inter...ry_id=10311317

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...QyOWQyZDM1OGI=

a more general link:

feed://persecution.com/news/rss.cfm

post #102 of 118
1/3/08 at 10:24pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Yes they are a minority...as are caucasians in Southern California. But, depending on who is counting, there are between 8 and 20 million muslims in the US. People who believe the NeoCon propaganda machine, echoed by large portions of the corporate media, must probably be very afraid: Ahmed and his legions of brothers and sisters all belong to some al Qaeda sleeper cell, and their life's mission is "to get us".

Politically correct? Ha! Much of "Middle America" ( I dislike that term, but I cant think of anything more appropriate right now) think that "political correctness" is for wimps, or "faggots", name the insult of your choice. Much of Middle America refer to Muslims as "sand-niggers" or "rag-heads", or worse. Most of America can't even distinguish between Sikhs and Muslims, for an example. "They're all terrorists as far as I'm concerned"... I hear that kind of stuff every day, in real or virtual life. You can see it on youtube replies, or the old yahoo news comments section, amongst many. Why even engage in a response? Its pointless, a waste of time and energy.

The opinions expressed on this board (with some exceptions of course) are very mild (almost twee) compared to much of the bile thats out there.

I think someone needs to tell this guy that there are no sleeper cells.

Quote:
March 26, 2007
Hamas leader: "Islam will enter every house and will spread over the entire world"

Senior Hamas leader and former PA Foreign Minister Mahmoud Al-Zahar makes an open declaration of Islamic supremacism. Expect CAIR's Hooper and a host of others to condemn him forthwith for "Islamophobia."

"'Islam will enter every house and will spread over the entire world,' says Hamas leader Al-Zahar," by Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook for PMW, with thanks to Atlas Shrugs:

While the Hamas goal of destroying Israel is well known, its aspiration for Islamic subjugation of the entire world is just as basic to Hamas dogma. Both aims appear in the Hamas Charter as God's irrepressible will, and both aims were reiterated this week by senior Hamas leader and former PA Foreign Minister Mahmoud Al-Zahar.

At a mass rally in memory of Hamas founder Ahmad Yassin, Al-Zahar said that the Quran promises the "liberation of all of Palestine," meaning the destruction of Israel. He went so far as to challenge the Islamic faith of those who deny this goal: "No one can deny it. One who denies it must check his faith and his Islam.

Regarding the Hamas religious goal of Islamic world domination, he said: Islam will enter every house and will spread over the entire world.

Below is the translation of Al-Zahars speech:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/015810.php
post #103 of 118
1/4/08 at 5:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

About 10% of Americans identify as Atheist. Assuming equal proportions of conservative, middle of the road and liberal atheists, thats about 3% for liberal atheists. 50% of those (by definition) would be of 'above average' education.. so we're down to 1.5% now. A tiny blip, compared to the religious majority.

I doubt your assumptions are right, but I don't have numbers to argue with. The outspoken atheists that I know fit the character I described. Then again, most of the people I know fit that description
traveling the globe in an envelope
traveling the globe in an envelope
post #104 of 118
1/4/08 at 6:41am
  • e1618978
  • will burn in the Fiery Pit of Hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat Stanley View Post

I doubt your assumptions are right, but I don't have numbers to argue with. The outspoken atheists that I know fit the character I described. Then again, most of the people I know fit that description

Atheists are more intelligent than believers, have a higher average level of education, and earn more money:

http://danish.newsvine.com/_news/200...than-believers

http://undergraduatestudies.ucdavis....2004/clark.pdf


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat Stanley View Post


I'd hit it! She has super hot eyes.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
post #105 of 118
1/4/08 at 7:30am
She has very hot eyes
traveling the globe in an envelope
traveling the globe in an envelope
post #106 of 118
1/4/08 at 8:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Atheists are more intelligent than believers, have a higher average level of education, and earn more money.

In the Professor's other findings:

Quote:
The Danish professor is a highly controversial academician who has previously provoked outrage by concluding that White people are generally more intelligent than Black people

Ok......

He sounds real intelligent...

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #107 of 118
1/4/08 at 9:52am
  • e1618978
  • will burn in the Fiery Pit of Hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

In the Professor's other findings:
Ok......

He sounds real intelligent...


White people test higher than black people on IQ tests, on average. This is consistent, and true even for black people who are adopted by white couples. It isn't a very nice truth, but it is a truth none the less.

That doesn't say anything about individual black people, many of whom are very intelligent, but on average they are less intelligent, at least based on standardized IQ tests. This also does not say anything about individual white people, many of whom are dumb as rocks.

Unless you dispute the validity of IQ tests as a measure of intelligence, I don't see that you can dispute his findings in this regard. People have tried to claim that there is a cultural bias in IQ tests that makes black people test lower, but I just don't see it based on the fact that it is the same result across multiple cultures. Also Asians and Jews test higher than white people.

Cue up a lot of angry responses with little factual content starting in 3, 2, 1...
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
post #108 of 118
1/4/08 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

This also does not say anything about individual white people, many of whom are dumb as rocks.

Do you think most atheists are white people? Given your statement above that has to skew the findings.

What about racists? They are stupid by definition so you'd need to know the figures for white atheist racists and then subtract the black racists and times it by the number of stupid white professors....or something.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #109 of 118
1/4/08 at 10:06am
  • e1618978
  • will burn in the Fiery Pit of Hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Do you think most atheists are white people? Given your statement above that has to skew the findings.

What about racists? They are stupid by definition so you'd need to know the figures for white atheist racists and then subtract the black racists and times it by the number of stupid white professors....or something.....

Racists are 100% of every race, at least according to the racial awareness seminar I went to [note, everybody in my company had to go, I was not singled out, just heading this off at the pass 8) ]- but that is a good point, I know very few black atheists.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
post #110 of 118
1/4/08 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

That doesn't say anything about individual black people, many of whom are very intelligent, but on average they are less intelligent, at least based on standardized IQ tests. This also does not say anything about individual white people, many of whom are dumb as rocks.

I have to admit that I automatically feel a bit of squeamishness about such statements, but I don't like the atmosphere of political correctness within academia that practically banishes such things from even being considered, much less spoken aloud.

Most of us have no problem at all with the idea of intelligence (or kinds of intelligence, as measured by various methods) being at least partially hereditary, and there's evidence to support that. It's not that great a leap from there consider the question that their might be racial variation in the distribution of the relevant genes.

The problem with the reaction to such concepts is that most of humanity, regardless of skin color, isn't smart enough to resist stupid oversimplifications. Most people aren't good at imagining overlapping bell curves with possibly different medians and distributions, which would show that, even if median white intelligence was higher, that they'd still be plenty of black people who were smarter than plenty of white people.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
post #111 of 118
1/4/08 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shetline View Post

I have to admit that I automatically feel a bit of squeamishness about such statements, but I don't like the atmosphere of political correctness within academia that practically banishes such things from even being considered, much less spoken aloud.

Most of us have no problem at all with the idea of intelligence (or kinds of intelligence, as measured by various methods) being at least partially hereditary, and there's evidence to support that. It's not that great a leap from there consider the question that their might be racial variation in the distribution of the relevant genes.

The problem with the reaction to such concepts is that most of humanity, regardless of skin color, isn't smart enough to resist stupid oversimplifications. Most people aren't good at imagining overlapping bell curves with possibly different medians and distributions, which would show that, even if median white intelligence was higher, that they'd still be plenty of black people who were smarter than plenty of white people.

Does it have to be hereditary though? Black people could be less 'intelligent' because they've been denied educational opportunities by 'da man' and any study of the issue would have to take this into account. Which they cannot actually because it is always the 'white' establishment doing the research.

In fact, I am not sure how far one can conflate education and intelligence - and which tests such as those used by the professor in question would actually measure.

You might argue that a standard IQ test measures aptitude and not knowledge but surely an educated person would be more likely to score highly on such a test than an un-educated one.

I also have no time for PC nonsense but it does appear that many of these IQ tests are culturally biased.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #112 of 118
1/4/08 at 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Does it have to be hereditary though?
...
I also have no time for PC nonsense but it does appear that many of these IQ tests are culturally biased.

Certainly the cultural bias of intelligence tests needs to be considered, as well as economic and even dietary differences between people of different "races" (a fuzzy classification of humans to begin with). Maybe in the end such things would account for all variation in measured differences in intelligence between blacks and whites.

The problem with excessive PC-ness is that you can get in a lot of trouble for even suggesting that you would want to look for purely racial differences, that you would want to see what you could see after trying to remove the extraneous variables.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
post #113 of 118
1/4/08 at 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shetline View Post

Certainly the cultural bias of intelligence tests needs to be considered, as well as economic and even dietary differences between people of different "races" (a fuzzy classification of humans to begin with). Maybe in the end such things would account for all variation in measured differences in intelligence between blacks and whites.

The problem with excessive PC-ness is that you can get in a lot of trouble for even suggesting that you would want to look for purely racial differences, that you would want to see what you could see after trying to remove the extraneous variables.

Yes, but it is a form of hypocrisy too. It is ok to positively label someone; black people are better athletes etc...

At least it should be consistent.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #114 of 118
1/4/08 at 10:53am
  • e1618978
  • will burn in the Fiery Pit of Hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I also have no time for PC nonsense but it does appear that many of these IQ tests are culturally biased.

Grades and IQ tests are highly correlated, and IQ usually does not change after age 6 - so I doubt it is affected by education. I have taken an IQ test, and it was all pattern recognition, not something that would seem to be a cultural bias-able thing.

I got 120 btw - less than my dad, since he got into Mensa, and also probably less than my half black brother (who got straight A grades in an ivy league college). I'm not sure that IQ is a good predictor of life success or good decision making, at least if you look at my dad's life (my brother is doing fine, though).
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
post #115 of 118
1/5/08 at 7:36pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Atheists are more intelligent than believers, have a higher average level of education, and earn more money:

http://danish.newsvine.com/_news/200...than-believers

http://undergraduatestudies.ucdavis....2004/clark.pdf

If Atheists are so smart are you saying that their reluctance to criticize Islamism is an act of intelligence?

I say it is partially convenience, partially cowardice, partially ignorance and entirely hypocritical.
post #116 of 118
1/5/08 at 10:30pm
Quote:
If Atheists are so smart are you saying that their reluctance to criticize Islamism is an act of intelligence?

Straw man, who says they aren't? Also, it's atheists and/or agnostics, unless your singling out a specific organization which have said words capitalized in it's title (and the organizations themselves capitalize said words).

And who said atheists were smart/intelligent, or that they weren't criticizing all religious beliefs to begin with?

Quote:
I say it is partially convenience, partially cowardice, partially ignorance and entirely hypocritical.

And your remarks are full of suppositions, hypotheticals, conjectures, speculations, and hyperboles!

And then?
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
post #117 of 118
1/5/08 at 11:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

If Atheists are so smart are you saying that their reluctance to criticize Islamism is an act of intelligence?

I say it is partially convenience, partially cowardice, partially ignorance and entirely hypocritical.

Okay, so you go on and on in about zillion separate threads, all started by you, about how people should be aware of the Muslim threat, criticize the Muslims, and "do something differently".

Yet...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 on another thread

If we all just go about our business and do nothing differently, the Muslim increased immigration and birthrates will guarantee an Islamist America one day.

Hmm. I don't see how these hostile birthrates can be lowered by of awareness or criticizing. What exactly is the thing you are proposing we do differently to counter the threat of people giving birth to more people? Is there a way for these people to be removed, or something?

Don't be like one of those cowardly and hypocritical Atheists, now. Tell us what *concrete* action you have in mind.
post #118 of 118
1/6/08 at 12:08am
After 3 pages you have made no effort at all to prove your initial premise (that atheists do not "focus" on Islam). This is yet another troll in a long line of very very stupid trolls, and P.O. is bad enough as it is.

You have received a warning for starting yet another piece-of-crap thread and you will keep receiving them.

If you want to know how to start a thread, do not begin with a massive logical fallacy and carry on from there with melodrama. You should ask someone for help in constructing arguments that make sense. (Not me, because I am not interested in helping you in that way.)

It's done now.
proud resident of a failed state
proud resident of a failed state
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
This thread is locked  
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Why Don't Atheists Focus on the Islamist Religionists?