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Apple set to ship Macs with Blu-ray support - report - Page 2

post #41 of 153
1/3/08 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post

Google "blu-ray adult sony". Sony's stance is a little confusing... which was why I used the word "apparently". Do some googling to find out more. In any case, FWIW... sounds like the adult industry has settled on HD-DVD.

Again, not true.
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post #42 of 153
1/3/08 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post


2) Sony, apparently, refuses to allow adult content on blu-ray... or at least... they will have no part in manufacturing of such content. Which is understandable, but like it or not, the adult market brings in significantly more money than the mainstream market. Something like 15 billion a year? Like it or not, you can't ignore the adult market.


Where have you been? Digital Playground are going full steam ahead with blu ray titles. And Vivid Entertainment already has some titles on Blu Ray.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...ray_Title/1291
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post #43 of 153
1/3/08 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Yeah, Blu-Ray is more advanced than HD-DVD. The main advantage is significantly greater storage capacity. The second is freedom from MS's influence on the product.

I second that! Great news AppleInsider!
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post #44 of 153
1/3/08 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post

Google "blu-ray adult sony". Sony's stance is a little confusing... which was why I used the word "apparently". Do some googling to find out more. In any case, FWIW... sounds like the adult industry has settled on HD-DVD.

I think the question was where you got the $15B figure. I couldn't find that. Googling those keywords found that your claim of no Blu-Ray porn to be wrong in about half the top ten hits. I think the original story was stretched to look like something that it wasn't.

I don't think porn will be a big influence this time around anyway. There's a question as to whether there's even a proportionate demand for HD porn, because that puts a demand on appearance, the arguments I read is that porn watchers don't want to see all the flaws. There's also competition with the internet.
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post #45 of 153
1/3/08 at 10:28am
Forget it... the war is over: the Japanese porn industry (which is huge) has decided to go with BluRay, with or without Sony. There is a Taiwanese connection (perhaps more than one ).

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,13...y/article.html

Sony Japan does not allow its own duplication house to work with porn, but other divisions that focus on making films can help any industry, thus the confusion.

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #46 of 153
1/3/08 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Advanced or not, frankly I'm unimpressed with Blu-Ray. I saw a demo on an HDTV at a Best Buy that looked pretty bad. It appears either the screen or the disc compression leave a lot of visual strobing in scenes with fast movement. I couldn't stand it.

There's only one movie that I know of that has strobing and that's Planet Earth. I think it's in all three formats.

I've not really seen a very good display of HD DVD or Blu-Ray in a retail store, or really of any other format. It's probably a setup issue.
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post #47 of 153
1/3/08 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Advanced or not, frankly I'm unimpressed with Blu-Ray. I saw a demo on an HDTV at a Best Buy that looked pretty bad. It appears either the screen or the disc compression leave a lot of visual strobing in scenes with fast movement. I couldn't stand it.

Admittedly I don't know a great deal about Blu-ray authoring, however I can tell you from my experience there is a huge variance in the levels of quality in HD content. Some of the the stuff you see on cable or Direct TV is crap compared to the official Sony demo disc which is simply pristine.

But aside from that, if you are expecting zero compression artifacts, it is just not part of the equation with 1080i. There are going to be some pixels, but when you step away from the screen a couple meters, it looks pretty decent.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #48 of 153
1/3/08 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I think the question was where you got the $15B figure.

Yes, such a big number strikes to say the least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I don't think porn will be a big influence this time around anyway. There's a question as to whether there's even a proportionate demand for HD porn, because that puts a demand on appearance, the arguments I read is that porn watchers don't want to see all the flaws. There's also competition with the internet.

I never thought about that before. Not that it affects me in any way, but what you say about imperfections being much more pronounced through HD, must be something serious to consider in this context, for obvious reasons I would not like to talk about now.
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post #49 of 153
1/3/08 at 10:46am
Apple will do whatever makes most sense for Apple, not for Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Right now the format war is still far from over, Paramount will still only support HD-DVD a year from now under the terms of their deal and Blu-Ray still has a 3:2 lead since that deal was done. So most of those of us who do care about high-def DVD will continue to sit it out rather than risk losing lots of money on the wrong format. So how many people would pay extra for an iMac/Macbook that supports one format or the other? Not enough.

The best thing Apple could do is bring out a new Apple TV with a dual format high-def DVD drive, at a reasonable price i.e. the price of a PS3 rather than current dual format players. That's something I'd buy and I reckon a lot of others would too. If they were planning such a device then it might explain how they've been able to get a deal on movie rentals, considering how unsuccessful Apple TV has been to date.
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post #50 of 153
1/3/08 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB View Post

Yes, such a big number strikes to say the least.


I never thought about that before. Not that it affects me in any way, but what you say about imperfections being much more pronounced through HD, must be something serious to consider in this context, for obvious reasons I would not like to talk about now.

Aw c'mon, don't you wanna see the acne, tattoos and c-section scars in their true HD glory?

Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face? - Jack D. Ripper
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Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face? - Jack D. Ripper
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post #51 of 153
1/3/08 at 10:57am
The porn industry rakes in 9-13 billion according to this site:

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/per...d.0040126&ct=1

The actual figure could be higher and probably is, though some sites say it is only 10 billion, though this site links (dead link) to a forbes article that said in 2001 that the industry was worth 14 billion:

http://www.thegeekery.biz/2007/07/30...-pun-intended/



Just a little reading...

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #52 of 153
1/3/08 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker View Post

If it's true the only computer they would introduce it in is obviously the Mac Pro. There is no other computer they make that could fit an affordable Blu Ray player in it. Just like when they introduced DVD-R (actually DVD-RAM) drives. The new Superdrive.

As satchmo and I pointed out, HP announced a desktop today for $949 that plays both formats. The drives aren't that expensive.
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post #53 of 153
1/3/08 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

There's a question as to whether there's even a proportionate demand for HD porn, because that puts a demand on appearance, the arguments I read is that porn watchers don't want to see all the flaws.

I wouldn't think porn viewers would care that much. Porn is cheap, HD-DVD is cheap, looks like a perfect match. But whatever floats your boat. Personally I was never very attracted to the sleaze look to begin with. Maybe a little pixelization would help cover up the flaws in the acting.

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post #54 of 153
1/3/08 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancho View Post

Aw c'mon, don't you wanna see the acne, tattoos and c-section scars in their true HD glory?


I mean no offense but if I knew what is all that then I would probably have an answer.
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post #55 of 153
1/3/08 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB View Post

I mean no offense but if I knew what is all that then I would probably have an answer.

I don't understand how you don't understand it.
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post #56 of 153
1/3/08 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I don't understand how you don't understand it.

I know what is tattoos, but acne and c-section scars I do not. English is not my mother tongue.
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post #57 of 153
1/3/08 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB View Post

I know what is tattoos, but acne and c-section scars I do not. English is not my mother tongue.

Acne - pimples
C-section - when the baby exits the mommy via a window rather than the door.



edit: good god I've strayed from this topic...
Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face? - Jack D. Ripper
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Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face? - Jack D. Ripper
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post #58 of 153
1/3/08 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

True and truer lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Yeah, Blu-Ray is more advanced than HD-DVD. The main advantage is significantly greater storage capacity. The second is freedom from MS's influence on the product.

And being under Sony's influence is a whole lot better- right?
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post #59 of 153
1/3/08 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB View Post

Yes, such a big number strikes to say the least.


I never thought about that before. Not that it affects me in any way, but what you say about imperfections being much more pronounced through HD, must be something serious to consider in this context, for obvious reasons I would not like to talk about now.

Porn HD DVD will kill Blu-Ray like Porn VHS killed Beta.
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post #60 of 153
1/3/08 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB View Post

I know what is tattoos, but acne and c-section scars I do not. English is not my mother tongue.

Ah. I didn't get that impression.

Acne are skin blemishes caused by a lot of oil build-up and bacteria in sweat glands. They are also called pimples.

A c-section (cesarean section) is where a surgeon cuts into the front lower torso & into the uterus to deliver a baby. I'm told it can leave a big scar.

To add to that, there are warts and moles, which are other forms of skin blemishes. As I understand it, high res still nude photos are heavily photoshopped, with HD video, that's too much work.
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post #61 of 153
1/3/08 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenjs View Post

Apple will do whatever makes most sense for Apple, not for Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.

Steve Jobs is the majority Disney stockholder and Disney is exclusively Blu-Ray. Gee I wonder why Apple's gone Blu-Ray?
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post #62 of 153
1/3/08 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishyesque View Post

Again, not true.

Porn industry is going for the cheaper of the 2 formats- HD DVD. Blu-ray may be questionably better but more expensive per disc.
And Disney will no way allow porn to be sold along with Peter Pan.
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post #63 of 153
1/3/08 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post

Which format is technically better is irrelevant. In case you haven't noticed, the market, not science and technology, is what drives the world that we live in. With that in mind, blu-ray has two big problems...

Irrelevant to you, but not to others.

Quote:
1) HD DVD is drastically cheaper to produce... the authoring tools are out there... and the players was WAY cheaper for the consumer to buy. Toshiba has also had a few "door crasher" sales selling players for $99 with 5 free movies. They sold something close to 100,000 of them on black friday.

Meaningless! When technologies are new, they always cost more. Does that mean we shouldn't adopt them? Of course not. Prices are dropping rapidly.

My first CD burner, a 4 speed, cost over $1,000. The disks cost $10 a piece.

When I bought my Digital Audio Mac, with the Pioneer 2x DVD burner, the burner was going for $1,000 externally, and the disks, again, cost $10.

Right now, you can get a Blu-Ray burner for $500, and the disks again cost $10.

What do you think will happen a year from now?
Quote:
2) Sony, apparently, refuses to allow adult content on blu-ray... or at least... they will have no part in manufacturing of such content. Which is understandable, but like it or not, the adult market brings in significantly more money than the mainstream market. Something like 15 billion a year? Like it or not, you can't ignore the adult market.

That's no longer true. Adult content is coming out on Blu-Ray.

Quote:
For the record... I would prefer blu-ray to win... but market forces are what will decide this... not merits... or Apple. Actually... what I would prefer is that we skip straight to HD downloads and forget this who stupid war being waged over little round pieces of plastic.

Screw HD-DVD.

More than twice the number of movies are being sold in the BD format than in HD-DVD.

If Apple has one, that ratio will go much higher, as it's been shown that Mac owners spend far more on music, Tv, and movies in digital download form. than PC owners
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post #64 of 153
1/3/08 at 11:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Steve Jobs is the majority Disney stockholder and Disney is exclusively Blu-Ray. Gee I wonder why Apple's gone Blu-Ray?

I think Disney made their choice before Steve joined. This is just a rumor, so we don't know of Apple chose a side yet. They are effectively in both coalitions right now.
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post #65 of 153
1/3/08 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

And being under Sony's influence is a whole lot better- right?

Definitely.
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post #66 of 153
1/3/08 at 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Porn industry is going for the cheaper of the 2 formats- HD DVD. Blu-ray may be questionably better but more expensive per disc.

The only numbers I've seen from a replicator is that both formats are about $2/disc packaged. HD DVD is cheaper by a dime. It's not prohibitively more expensive as proponents make it seem.
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post #67 of 153
1/3/08 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Porn industry is going for the cheaper of the 2 formats- HD DVD. Blu-ray may be questionably better but more expensive per disc.
And Disney will no way allow porn to be sold along with Peter Pan.

You don't know much about this, do you?

The porn industry PREFERS BD.

This has nothing to do with Disney.
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post #68 of 153
1/3/08 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Steve Jobs is the majority Disney stockholder and Disney is exclusively Blu-Ray. Gee I wonder why Apple's gone Blu-Ray?

Apple are currently a Blu-Ray supporter in name only though. Disney have declined to answer questions about being paid to support Blu-Ray. I doubt very much that Steve Jobs cares which format wins - Apple are all about selling content on iTunes - and if Apple did start selling computers with Blu-Ray drives, would it really make much difference to the format war?

Now imagine an Apple TV, capable of playing HD-DVD or Blu-Ray DVDs at 1080p, or iTunes content at 720p. Apple sells more kit and more content. The studios can still sell DVDs at full price because they are higher resolution than the online content, but they have an extra sales channel for those who want the convenience. If the price is right, format fence-sitters are more likely to take the plunge. Stimulate a market for dual format players and both formats survive, still competing to win business from studios though it no longer matters to customers which format they buy their DVDs in. It seems to me that most of the main players could be pretty happy with this.
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post #69 of 153
1/3/08 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenjs View Post

Apple are currently a Blu-Ray supporter in name only though. Disney have declined to answer questions about being paid to support Blu-Ray. I doubt very much that Steve Jobs cares which format wins - Apple are all about selling content on iTunes - and if Apple did start selling computers with Blu-Ray drives, would it really make much difference to the format war?

Now imagine an Apple TV, capable of playing HD-DVD or Blu-Ray DVDs at 1080p, or iTunes content at 720p. Apple sells more kit and more content. The studios can still sell DVDs at full price because they are higher resolution than the online content, but they have an extra sales channel for those who want the convenience. If the price is right, format fence-sitters are more likely to take the plunge. Stimulate a market for dual format players and both formats survive, still competing to win business from studios though it no longer matters to customers which format they buy their DVDs in. It seems to me that most of the main players could be pretty happy with this.

The players? What about the consumers that got burnt on the first Apple TV? Should they get a trade-in? Rebate?
Disney/Pixar right now only releases in Blu-Ray. Trust me, he cares what format wins. He does not want Microsoft to win anything anymore. He won't be happy until crushes as much juice out of Microsoft as he possible can. It's a sad modus operandi but unfortunately a reality.
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post #70 of 153
1/3/08 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You don't know much about this, do you?

The porn industry PREFERS BD.

This has nothing to do with Disney.

WRONG- Porn is going for the cheap. Blu-ray is more expensive to reproduce- everyone knows this except apparently you. DVD plants can be retrofitted to manufacture HD DVD discs. Blu Ray need new plants created from scratch. How could you not know this?
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post #71 of 153
1/3/08 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

The only numbers I've seen from a replicator is that both formats are about $2/disc packaged. HD DVD is cheaper by a dime. It's not prohibitively more expensive as proponents make it seem.

Not in the cost to the consumer! Manufacturing costs.
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post #72 of 153
1/3/08 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

The players? What about the consumers that got burnt on the first Apple TV? Should they get a trade-in? Rebate?

There aren't very many of those though are there. Besides, the first Apple TV went on sale almost a year ago (albeit not shipping for a while later). The iPhone price-drop was very harsh on early adopters but a new version of a year-old product? Apple do that all the time with Macs and iPods.
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post #73 of 153
1/3/08 at 12:13pm
1. More than likely will shoot HDV with low-cost prosumer gear, not true HD with broadcast quality. Way too high of cost, even to rent, for adult films. Let's face it, folks aren't watching it for high quality cinematography and storyline.

2. I imagine it's still going to be lots cheaper for adult film producers wanting to do HiDef to commercially press Blu-Ray or HD-DVDs from glass masters than burn them one at a time with lasers.

3. Can't imagine spending the money to watch adult films in HD on my $3500 flat-screen. Doesn't the requisite anti-splatter plastic drop-cloth over the set diffuse the high quality image?
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post #74 of 153
1/3/08 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Not in the cost to the consumer! Manufacturing costs.


That's because you don't know what you're talking about, bad at comprehension or bad at explaining what you mean. The prices I stated ARE the per-disc manufacturing costs to the studio from a replicator that makes HD DVD and Blu-Ray, in a run of (IIRC) 100,000 pc. quantities for each format, packaged. The costs of the production line are ammortized into the discs, and as such, is an irrelevant consideration.

"More expensive to produce" is a nice sound bite but making a big deal about a DIME per disc being too much more expensive is pretty stupid in my opinion.
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post #75 of 153
1/3/08 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Ah. I didn't get that impression.

I seem sometimes proficient in English, but I am afraid this is the side effect of talking almost exclusively about computers and technical stuff. In other sectors I need definitely to try more and enlarge my vocabulary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Acne are skin blemishes caused by a lot of oil build-up and bacteria in sweat glands. They are also called pimples.

A c-section (cesarean section) is where a surgeon cuts into the front lower torso & into the uterus to deliver a baby. I'm told it can leave a big scar.

To add to that, there are warts and moles, which are other forms of skin blemishes. As I understand it, high res still nude photos are heavily photoshopped, with HD video, that's too much work.

Thank you for taking the time to explain all this for me. It was quite informative.
Cheers.
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post #76 of 153
1/3/08 at 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Porn HD DVD will kill Blu-Ray like Porn VHS killed Beta.

No, it wont, as most Porn can be had on the Internet, thus making Porn's impact on this current format battle less "impactful."

Also, the whole cost issue in regards to HD DVD and Blu-ray discs had been discussed ad-nauseum per the Blu-ray vs HD DVD thread, and the points you bring up are only partly true. First, the cost of replication for Blu-ray is indeed slightly higher. In other words, manufacturing costs are higher. However, the cost to the end consumer (which is the most important of the two) is actually LESS for Blu-ray discs than their HD DVD counterparts.

So, really, Porn will probably be cheaper on the Blu-ray disc format, if you think it is going to have such clout in this iteration of a format war.
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post #77 of 153
1/3/08 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

WRONG- Porn is going for the cheap. Blu-ray is more expensive to reproduce- everyone knows this except apparently you. DVD plants can be retrofitted to manufacture HD DVD discs. Blu Ray need new plants created from scratch. How could you not know this?

You really don't know anything about this. There is almost no difference in costs involved. In interviews in the NYTimes a few months ago about this very subject, those in the industry said that they were agitated that Sony and others hadn't yet committed to their needs (though they now have).

BD pressing plants are working. Once the plants have been built, the pressing and processing costs are almost identical, and over time, will get cheaper still. That's the way it works.

I had a number of adult entertainment companies as customers of my lab, and we had discussed these possibilities before we sold it.

Every time articles on this subject appear, Blu-Ray is mentioned as being preferred. You can read some in AVNS.
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post #78 of 153
1/3/08 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by marzetta7 View Post

No, it wont, as most Porn can be had on the Internet, thus making Porn's impact on this current format battle less "impactful."

Also, the whole cost issue in regards to HD DVD and Blu-ray discs had been discussed ad-nauseum per the Blu-ray vs HD DVD thread, and the points you bring up are only partly true. First, the cost of replication for Blu-ray is indeed slightly higher. In other words, manufacturing costs are higher. However, the cost to the end consumer (which is the most important of the two) is actually LESS for Blu-ray discs than their HD DVD counterparts.

So, really, Porn will probably be cheaper on the Blu-ray disc format, if you think it is going to have such clout in this iteration of a format war.

Exactly, Porn has gone onto the Internet. Anyone who thinks it'll have nearly the impact that it did on VHS/Beta is high.
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post #79 of 153
1/3/08 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by theapplegenius View Post

Exactly, Porn has gone onto the Internet. Anyone who thinks it'll have nearly the impact that it did on VHS/Beta is high.


Not correct- the porn DVD industry is huge. Is is not only internet. They are sold in the millions. Put down the pipe yourself.
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post #80 of 153
1/3/08 at 1:58pm
Apple is most likely going to procure a Universal drive. They really don't have a pony in this war as much as many people like to portray.

To date DVD Studio Pro supports HD DVD out of the box and Blu-ray prep with a Telestream plugin.

There's no value in Apple choosing sides. They sell content production software. They don't give a shat about the format war.

Blu-ray/HD DVD playback isn't coming until HDCP/AACS/BD+/ is fully integrated in OS X.

Newsflash ....Universals will rule the day. Last CES it was about Universal chipsets from NEC and Broadcom. This CES should be about more integration and Universal player options.
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