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Apple introduces new Mac Pro topping out at 3.2GHz - Page 3

post #81 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Almost no one uses these schemes anyway. Apple won't bother.

I wouldn't say no one. I'd imagine a lot of people interested in the mac pro (modeling professionals) would enjoy Crossfire / SLI. Pixar? Even though Jobs doesn't own them any more, I'd imagine they still use Macs.

 

 

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post #82 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

I don't recall this happening with the g5's or the Mac Pros. Did it with the G4's? The only one I can think of that was possibility was Yosamite vs Sawtooth.

They did. The single chip G5's were PCI while the others higher up were PCI-X.

I believe the single cpu Intel machines had a different board as well, at least in the beginning.
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post #83 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ak1808 View Post

On the medium tower myth
There is no future for user-serviced PCs.
Soon we'll all be using iPhone, iTVs and iFridges.
And just like Phones, TVs and Fridges before, these devices will come out of a box, work instantly and get replaced in a multi-year cycle.

If Apple ever had plans to make a medium tower, it was 10 years ago.
Times have changed. Lets move on.

Don't forget the gaming market. It's big in the PC world, you know. Apple has been ignoring it for a long time. Also... from a environmental standpoint, buying an iMac every 2'nd year just to keep up to date is really bad. The screen could last for many many years, and the computer too.. sometimes a graphics card is all that's needed.. or a cpu update. There is currently no mac suitable for gaming in. Mac Pro is too expensive, and iMac's graphic performance is dated shortly after its introduction.

I personally don't care, because I'm not a computer gamer.. but if there's a good time to introduce a gamer's mac, it's now that Apple and Leopard is on everybody's lips. Conventional PC guys concider Macs today. The shiftover is all happening right now. But they still don't wanna give up gaming, so either they'll buy the gamer's mac, or they'll buy a cheap PC and set it up for gaming, in addition to their new mac. So.. I think now is a good time to introduce the gamer's mac.
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post #84 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:03am
Absolutely awesome, but I'll wait for NAB to see if Blu-ray and a new version of DVD Studio Pro shows up.
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post #85 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

They did. The single chip G5's were PCI while the others higher up were PCI-X.

I believe the single cpu Intel machines had a different board as well, at least in the beginning.

All the single cpu intel machines had the same mobo as the dual... I'm assuming you're talking about core duo -> core 2 duo. All they did was a drop in replacement for the cpu. Which is why the 2.33 core2duo is still limited to 3gb of ram just like the coreduo was. That is unless you're talking about the developer machines vs the mac pro which was enitrely different as they weren't even using xeons in those.

Changing a PCI southbridge is a lot easier than ditching a whole socket though... but I never put anything passed apple. We'll have to wait and see.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #86 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

I have a nice feeling we are in for an exciting week...

That is what we are all hoping. At first I was like "what the hell is Apple doing??". I mean, why is Apple announcing stuff ahead of macworld? Wouldn't that take away from the surprises on the first day of Macworld? Then I thought that perhaps there will be a lot of other cool stuff at macworld to announce and that they are announcing the mac pro and xserve updates now to get them out of the way.
At least this is what we hope.
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post #87 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

No!

We'll likely have to wait 'till the ADC and Nehalem for that.

I love the case. I don't know what they could do to the outside to improve upon it's ascetics .

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

For recording, and data.

You're not saying someone offers movie playback through the Mac, are you?

No, I'm not. I must have misread the OP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

One configuration for CPUs. IE 1 out of 4 configurations is only single CPU vs dual CPU. IE quad vs octo.

So why would they change the motherboard for 1 of the 4 CPU configurations? Seems like a waste. Why not just not put one of the CPUs in?

I assumed it was the same MoBo but with one less chip. Can't they build in a jumper for a bypass?
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post #88 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:13am
I know dell does this with their workstation. They have offered dual cpu or single cpu, and all they do is not put a cpu in it.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #89 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

I know dell does this with their workstation. They have offered dual cpu or single cpu, and all they do is not put a cpu in it.


It's certainly possible. But with Apple it's also not.
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post #90 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Football View Post

Holy crap!!! These things friggin' rock.

Yesterday you could buy a four processor 2.66 for $2,499

Today you get an eight processor 2.8 for $2,799

That's only an extra $300. Awesome.

By the way, yesterday it cost $4,000 for a eight core 3.0

2.8 will be just fine for me.

Yeah, but what software is going to use more than 4 processors effectively? Most of the benchmarks are comparing the new machines to the Quad G5s, and comparisons to other Mac Pros just seem to show the difference in clock speed.
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post #91 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I love the case. I don't know what they could do to the outside to improve upon it's ascetics .

It isn't so much that it would look better, as much as it would be new.

If you look at eBay, you can see how the value of machines drop after certain changes are made to new machines.

When Apple comes out with a new case, which they will do at some point, all of the older case machines will have their value cut significantly.

If you buy an old machine, but it has a current case, you can pretend to yourself, and others, that it is a new machine. But when the case is changed, suddenly, it's pretty obvious that your machine is "old", even if you bought it the week before. It's like driving a new car out of the lot the end of December.

I know we don't like to think we're that unsophisticated, but it does come into it.
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post #92 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

All the single cpu intel machines had the same mobo as the dual... I'm assuming you're talking about core duo -> core 2 duo. All they did was a drop in replacement for the cpu. Which is why the 2.33 core2duo is still limited to 3gb of ram just like the coreduo was. That is unless you're talking about the developer machines vs the mac pro which was enitrely different as they weren't even using xeons in those.

Changing a PCI southbridge is a lot easier than ditching a whole socket though... but I never put anything passed apple. We'll have to wait and see.

1.6 Ghz Power Mac G5: Single socket logic board with PCI slots.

Dual 2 Ghz Power Mac G5: Dual socket logic board with PCI-X slots.

Single 1.8 Ghz Power Mac G5: Single socket logic board with PCI slots. CPU and heat sink were not removable. Frontside bus was 1/3 CPU speed compared to the 1/2 in the other PM G5's.

Dual Core 2.0 and 2.3 Ghz Power Mac G5: Single socket logic board with a dual core G5 CPU and PCI Express.

Power Mac G5 Quad 2.5 Ghz: Dual socket logic board with 2 dual core G5's liquid cooled and PCI Express.
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post #93 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apple's DVD Studio Pro has support for creating blue-laser discs.

The support there is very limited. It'll only create an HD-DVD-compliant file-structure, and it won't encode High-Profile H.264, which is the preferred profile for HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs.
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post #94 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the cool gut View Post

Yeah, but what software is going to use more than 4 processors effectively? Most of the benchmarks are comparing the new machines to the Quad G5s, and comparisons to other Mac Pros just seem to show the difference in clock speed.

People keep using this argument...... the software is called OS X . If you are running multiple programs you are effectively running multiple cpus even if they aren't programmed for multi-processing.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #95 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

The support there is very limited. It'll only create an HD-DVD-compliant file-structure, and it won't encode High-Profile H.264, which is the preferred profile for HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs.

BD has mostly been using MPEG-2.
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post #96 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

1.6 Ghz Power Mac G5: Single socket logic board with PCI slots.

Dual 2 Ghz Power Mac G5: Dual socket logic board with PCI-X slots.

Single 1.8 Ghz Power Mac G5: Single socket logic board with PCI slots. CPU was not removable. Frontside bus was 1/3 CPU speed compared to the 1/2 in the other PM G5's.

Dual Core 2.0 and 2.3 Ghz Power Mac G5: Single socket logic board with a dual core G5 CPU and PCI Express.

Power Mac G5 Quad 2.5 Ghz: Dual socket logic board with 2 dual core G5's liquid cooled and PCI Express.

THat history is across a line of 4 revisions. The first rev was 1.6, 1.8, and dual 2.0. I was under the impression there was still 2 sockets even on the 1.6 though.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #97 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

BD has mostly been using MPEG-2.


I thought that was just at the outset.
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post #98 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

BD has mostly been using MPEG-2.

Actually towards the middle of 2006 they switched to pretty much all MPEG-4. You can look up all the details at hidefdigest.com for their specs.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #99 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:28am
The RAID card continues to be a rip off. At $800, it does not even support external SAS drives.
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post #100 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:30am
I have to say that my biggest surprise is that they didn't redesign the case. I think this is the first time ever that an Apple design is going into it's 5th year without a major redesign.
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post #101 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guartho View Post

I thought that was just at the outset.

They hadn't felt the need because of the extra capacity on the disks. as more stuff is put on the disks it will continue to move over.
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post #102 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

Actually towards the middle of 2006 they switched to pretty much all MPEG-4. You can look up all the details at hidefdigest.com for their specs.

I've read that a lot are still MPEG-2.
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post #103 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

I have to say that my biggest surprise is that they didn't redesign the case. I think this is the first time ever that an Apple design is going into it's 5th year without a major redesign.

Wait 'till ADC and Nehalem.

Unless (unlikely, but possible) NAB.
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post #104 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

I have to say that my biggest surprise is that they didn't redesign the case. I think this is the first time ever that an Apple design is going into it's 5th year without a major redesign.

The case re-design when they switched to Intel was significant. It's just that the external appearance didn't change very much.

Why change one of the best enclosures in the industry? The only thing I can think of that would make the case better is if the handles were smoother so they didn't cut into your hands when lifting the machine.
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post #105 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647
But in the end the motherboard chipsets still have to support crossfire and have crossfire drivers for the OS. Which i failed to see mentioned anywhere. I'm all about it if true, but I haven't seen anything on it.

Almost no one uses these schemes anyway. Apple won't bother.

Are Aperture and Motion considered games?
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post #106 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I've read that a lot are still MPEG-2.

I look up every blu-ray I buy before I buy it and I haven't bought one that is mpeg 2 yet.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/1164/simpsonsmovie.html
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/clockworkorange.html
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/983/planetearth_us.html
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/lastsamurai.html
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/donniebrasco.html
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/ratatouille.html
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/854/patriot.html
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/nati...ssenemies.html (supplements are mpeg2 feature is vc1 (mpeg-4)
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/behindenemylines.html

That is my entire collection cept for 3:10 to yuma which hasn't shipped yet and is most definitely mpeg4. I have only seen the very early blu-ray be mpeg2 which was when hd-dvd was kicking it's ass in PQ.

Point being... apple needs a blu-ray player........ sooner than later.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #107 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Are Aperture and Motion considered games?

The 5600 would take care of that. The game boards don't do as well for pro programs anyway. The pro board is programmed differently.
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post #108 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

The case re-design when they switched to Intel was significant. It's just that the external appearance didn't change very much.

Why change one of the best enclosures in the industry? The only thing I can think of that would make the case better is if the handles were smoother so they didn't cut into your hands when lifting the machine.

They can still make it easier for technicians to service. Mac salespeople are like used car salesmen. All they want to do is take the customer's money and dump the support issues on the technicians. Contrary to what some people might think, Macs don't take themselves apart in the repair shop. If Macs are too difficult to take apart and service, the technicians can and do take action against them. These actions include pushing the customer to the end of the line for as long as the technician feels like it, turning the customer away and refusing to do the repair, and actively discouraging customers from buying Macs.
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post #109 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:41am
What is the big holdup? Why can't Apple just update DVD Player to play content from a Blu-ray player you bought fromt eh 3rd party? How is the AACS or HDCP preventing all this?
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post #110 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

I look up every blu-ray I buy before I buy it and I haven't bought one that is mpeg 2 yet.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/1164/simpsonsmovie.html
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/clockworkorange.html
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/983/planetearth_us.html
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/lastsamurai.html
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/donniebrasco.html
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/ratatouille.html
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/854/patriot.html
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/nati...ssenemies.html (supplements are mpeg2 feature is vc1 (mpeg-4)
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/behindenemylines.html

That is my entire collection cept for 3:10 to yuma which hasn't shipped yet and is most definitely mpeg4. I have only seen the very early blu-ray be mpeg2 which was when hd-dvd was kicking it's ass in PQ.

Point being... apple needs a blu-ray player........ sooner than later.

Well, that's surprising, but it isn't really significant.

As you say, Apple needs to support BD.
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post #111 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I've read that a lot are still MPEG-2.

My mom says there's a lot of black people in Africa.
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post #112 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

They can still make it easier for technicians to service. Mac salespeople are like used car salesmen. All they want to do is take the customer's money and dump the support issues on the technicians. Contrary to what some people might think, Macs don't take themselves apart in the repair shop. If Macs are too difficult to take apart and service, the technicians can and do take action against them. These actions include pushing the customer to the end of the line for as long as the technician feels like it, turning the customer away and refusing to do the repair, and actively discouraging customers from buying Macs.

That's nonsense!

A technician gets paid to fix machines. It doesn't matter what they have to do. One screw is the same as another. They charge by the time it takes. It's no skin off their backs.
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post #113 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The 5600 would take care of that. The game boards don't do as well for pro programs anyway. The pro board is programmed differently.

So people should spend $2850 for the Quadro FX5600 when two Geforce 8800's running SLI would cost less and outperform the single Quadro?
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post #114 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilco View Post

My mom says there's a lot of black people in Africa.

Wilco, you're back with the dumb comments again?
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post #115 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

So people should spend $2850 for the Quadro FX5600 when two Geforce 8800's running SLI would cost less and outperform the single Quadro?

It's not likely they would outperform it for these programs. Have you any evidence they would?

Perhaps two higher end 8800's might, but not these.
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post #116 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's nonsense!

A technician gets paid to fix machines. It doesn't matter what they have to do. One screw is the same as another. They charge by the time it takes. It's no skin off their backs.

Not true. Apple does not provide full reimbursement for all the time required for technicians to take apart their stupid iMacs or laptops under warranty. Not to mention the time that customers have to spend waiting. Repair shops can actually lose money by doing Mac warranty work. Furthermore, not all repair shops charge by the hour. Some charge a flat rate. And IT departments in large businesses need to fix their own computers instead of carrying Macs to a retail store inside a shopping mall. I've been to Apple conferences where even the Apple employees hosting the event were ridiculing Steve Jobs and complaining about the difficulty of taking certain Macs apart.
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post #117 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:49am
I'm impressed but it's still long overdue.

I configured this:

single quad 2.8GHz
2GB Ram (about time that was default)
Geforce 8800GT 512MB
320GB drive
wifi
DVDRW

price comes to £1568.

That's pretty good value for money IMO considering the cheapest quad 2.0GHz with 2GB Ram came to £1700 in the last lineup. Also, the dual 2.8GHz iMac is £1459. It does have the 24" screen but only the Radeon HD 2600. If you put the 2600 in the Mac Pro, it's also £1459.

I would much rather have a quad 2.8GHz than an iMac if I only had to put out the cost of a display as I'd just go for a sub-£200 20".

£1768 for tower+display is still not the price range for a home computer though - I'd say £1200 maximum but for work and pro use, very good value for money indeed.

I was kinda hoping for an aesthetic not technical redesign though. Having had to look at that design for the past 2 years, it's getting quite tiresome now. Like the iMac, it's a design that I never really liked from the outset and hasn't grown on me though. For people who originally liked it, it might not be so bad.
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post #118 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas View Post

. Also... from a environmental standpoint, buying an iMac every 2'nd year just to keep up to date is really bad. The screen could last for many many years, and the computer too.. sometimes a graphics card is all that's needed.. or a cpu update.

I suspect that isn't true. iMacs use laptop CPUs and consume less power than desktops. They also use less materials and require less packaging and space during shipping. Often the greatest environmental impact isn't the product itself, it's the space it takes up during shipping and the power it uses.
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post #119 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Wilco, you're back with the dumb comments again?

And you're still blowing hot air...
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post #120 of 253
1/8/08 at 9:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Not true. Apple does not provide full reimbursement for all the time required for technicians to take apart their stupid iMacs or laptops under warranty. Not to mention the time that customers have to spend waiting. Repair shops can actually lose money by doing Mac warranty work. And IT departments in large businesses need to fix their own computers instead of carrying Macs to a retail store inside a shopping mall. I've been to Apple conferences where even the Apple employees hosting the event were complaining about the difficulty of taking certain Macs apart.

We had to take repairs of out equipment in at my electronics company. some of that equipment was very complex. We did what we did. This is no different.

In the first film lab I was at, before my own, I had to change a felt brake pad that required taking the entire drive system apart. Was it a pain? Sure. But usually Kodak did it for us. The techs didn't care. Work was work. If they weren't doing that, they would be doing something else just as annoying.

I never care about how techs complain. They ALWAYS complain.
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