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Deathblow: Paramount to abandon HD DVD in return to Blu-ray - Page 2

post #41 of 106
1/8/08 at 11:32am
Blu-ray is much, much, much better. Not only better quality, but also more content and great for backups. HD-DVD was dead before being born. I am amazed people even purchased that.
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post #42 of 106
1/8/08 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

As far as I know the graphics cards support it. At least the 8800gt and 2600xt on the windows side does. Just gotta go DVI -> DVI or DVI -> HDMI. Monoprice.com has some really cheap 1080p adapters that go from DVI -> HDMI that I bought a few days ago to run my MBP at 1080p. These should follow the DRM standards of blu-ray.

Of course, as usual, Apple says nothing about features that MAY be present, but they don't support. All I can see from that small photo is the two DVI connectors out the back, which tells us nothing we want to know about this.

HDCP, that's the DRM that must be supported (at least in theory). do these cards support that? They must, for playback. I remember all of the discussions about this late 2006, throughout 2007 of which cards supported it. Most didn't. I'm not sure how many do now.

But Apple has a bad habit of not supporting board features.

With ATI, you could see that clearly (oh, darn, another pun!). With Apple, the board came with no software, and only was supported by the basic choices in the prefs panel.

But when you bought an ATi instead, you got the control panels which supported the turning on or off of all the features the PC cards had.
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post #43 of 106
1/8/08 at 11:34am
Why are you amazed by it? It's cheaper.

Which seems more appealing to someone on a budget, a Honda Civic, or a Porsche?
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post #44 of 106
1/8/08 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

Blu-ray is much, much, much better. Not only better quality, but also more content and great for backups. HD-DVD was dead before being born. I am amazed people even purchased that.

They were hoping that being cheaper would gain momentum since here in the US there is such a fascination with Walmart, cheap goods and buying utter crap. I mean, with that kind of track record HD DVD stood a very strong chance of winning.
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post #45 of 106
1/8/08 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishyesque View Post

Why are you amazed by it? It's cheaper.

Which seems more appealing to someone on a budget, a Honda Civic, or a Porsche?

The Porsche may be more appealing...
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post #46 of 106
1/8/08 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishyesque View Post

Why are you amazed by it? It's cheaper.

Which seems more appealing to someone on a budget, a Honda Civic, or a Porsche?

If you have to use car analogies, I'd say it was more like Kia vs. Honda. Yeah, the Kia's cheap and gets decent mileage but the Honda's mileage is better and it's built to last but costs a bit more.
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post #47 of 106
1/8/08 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I certainly agree with the tone of that.
One industry person said, shortly after Warner made their announcement, that HD-DVD's death would come quickly, if not within days, then at the most, weeks.

I wasn't going to comment -- anantksundaram and melgross have it right, I think -- but this may be of interest, a page 6 comment from the higdefdigest link

"FT's article is backed up by Germany's biggest weekly magazine:

Original article

Google translation

"HD DVD threatened by death blow from Paramount"
The fight of the titans seems over: ...

On enquiry from SPIEGEL ONLINE, the agency that acts for Paramount Home Entertainment in Germany couldn't comment on this [FT's] article. An insider that wants to remain anonymous told SPIEGEL ONLINE: "It's over. Blu-ray is the standard."
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post #48 of 106
1/8/08 at 11:51am
Sheez, when has Appleinsider become such an Fud-bot? I mean come on, show a bit of respect to your readers, ok. What's next? "I heard from a friend of a cousin" -stories?
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post #49 of 106
1/8/08 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan1 View Post

Sheez, when has Appleinsider become such an Fud-bot? I mean come on, show a bit of respect to your readers, ok. What's next? "I heard from a friend of a cousin" -stories?

No, usually stuff like this is revealed in a bar where someone "with inside knowledge spills the beans".
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post #50 of 106
1/8/08 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan1 View Post

Sheez, when has Appleinsider become such an Fud-bot? I mean come on, show a bit of respect to your readers, ok. What's next? "I heard from a friend of a cousin" -stories?

This is a RUMORS site. And this is a rumor. Possibly a very GOOD rumor.
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post #51 of 106
1/8/08 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

This is a RUMORS site. And this is a rumor. Possibly a very GOOD rumor.

True, and when taken with other information you can tell that there has to be more brewing regardless of the public posturing currently. I'm sure all the companies involved are in some pretty heated talks at the moment.

The biggest problem here for content providers is that there's a format war at all. They're not here to make technology decisions so much as they are here to provide content and make money doing it. No studio is making great money off HD right now due to uncertainty in that space. Now that there is less uncertainty I'd expect the HD space to straighten itself up and put the format war behind them.
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post #52 of 106
1/8/08 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake_11 View Post

The scariest part of the whole situation is that Sony has tried to force its own technology upon everyone for the last 20 years regardless of losing nearly every time. Sony tried to fight VHS twice, first with Beta, than with 8MM.

Beta came out first, it's more like VHS picked a fight on the incumbent. VHS was more practical though, I think it was best that VHS won that round.

I don't think 8mm was intended to be a media distribution format, any more than miniDV is. I think miniDV is JVC.

Quote:
They didn't think CD's were good enough, so they created the Mini-Disc. Later the standardized flash memory cards SD and CF weren't good enough for Sony so they created memory stick. They didn't like the way people could rip CD's to MP3, so they tried to stop that. If Sony wins the HD war with Blue Ray, where will they go next?

You do know that CD is half-Sony, right?

Minidisc did do well in Japan, not elsewhere though. I think Minidisc was a better portable format than CD, CD players were four times the volume, and most CD players didn't have a belt clip. I had Minidisc for a few years before iPod came out. It helped me stay sane by having something to listen to as I went about work, I don't regret spending that money at all. CD players just weren't nearly pocketable enough and ate batteries more quickly.

I do agree that MemoryStick was asinine. I didn't like xD either, that was from a different party though.
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post #53 of 106
1/8/08 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

B
Minidisc did do well in Japan, not elsewhere though. I think Minidisc was a better portable format than CD, CD players were four times the volume, and most CD players didn't have a belt clip. I had Minidisc for a few years before iPod came out. It helped me stay sane by having something to listen to as I went about work, I don't regret spending that money at all. CD players just weren't nearly pocketable enough and ate batteries more quickly.

I actually liked the minidisc form factor. Didn't it require you to use Sony's atrac format though? Too bad, the players looked pretty nice as well.
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post #54 of 106
1/8/08 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancho View Post

I actually liked the minidisc form factor. Didn't it require you to use Sony's atrac format though? Too bad, the players looked pretty nice as well.

ATRAC is kind of embedded into the format, it's not audio files on a disc, more like CD tracks.

The format is irrelevant now except for maybe some specialized acquisition, which I think the new versions will record lossless / uncompressed for audio work.
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post #55 of 106
1/8/08 at 12:33pm
The interesting question is whether or not Warner knew about the clause in Paramount's contract, and if they unilaterally dumped HD DVD and thru in with Blu-Ray to put pressure on Paramount's hand and effectively end the war.

Digital is coming on strong and both formats stood to lose if they kept sitting in the corner and bickering.

Not to mention that the delay has apparently affected DVD sales as well as high-def sales.

See: http://www.iSights.org/2008/01/the-blu-rayhd-d.html
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post #56 of 106
1/8/08 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Of course, as usual, Apple says nothing about features that MAY be present, but they don't support. All I can see from that small photo is the two DVI connectors out the back, which tells us nothing we want to know about this.

HDCP, that's the DRM that must be supported (at least in theory). do these cards support that? They must, for playback. I remember all of the discussions about this late 2006, throughout 2007 of which cards supported it. Most didn't. I'm not sure how many do now.

You'd have to go by the chipset ... I suspect most current chipsets do HDCP. Then Apple would have to use it in their software.

The real issue is the monitors. Even the current Cinema Displays appear to have no mention of HDCP in the specs. Well ... there's always next week.
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post #57 of 106
1/8/08 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmjoe View Post

You'd have to go by the chipset ... I suspect most current chipsets do HDCP. Then Apple would have to use it in their software.

The real issue is the monitors. Even the current Cinema Displays appear to have no mention of HDCP in the specs. Well ... there's always next week.

I didn't even want to get into that.

We can wait a week to find out.
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post #58 of 106
1/8/08 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

This is a RUMORS site. And this is a rumor. Possibly a very GOOD rumor.

Well, these "rumours" we're denied by Paramount. Nothing here to watch, move on...
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post #59 of 106
1/8/08 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

One of their problems is that unlike Warner, which is producing BD disks and HD-DVD disks for their films, Paramount is now only producing HD-DVD.

For Warner to state that at the end of MAY they will cease to sell HD-DVD disks is fine, because they have CURRENT product for their customers.

But with Paramount giving up their BD production a couple of months ago, they would have NO product to offer their customers until they manufactured enough titles in Bd again for them to keep their income coming in (this holds for Universal as well).

I'm assuming that talks are already going on, both to discontinue HD-DVD (or possibly continuing it for a while, like Warner), and to begin manufacturer of enough BD titles to have available when they do make a definitive announcement.

You're forgetting all of the Blu-Ray titles that Paramount was in the process of releasing just before their turn to HD DVD exclusive. At the very least, they should have boxes of Blades of Glory sitting in a warehouse somewhere ready to ship since that was a mere week away from release. And most if not all of the work should be done on several other titles like Next, Top Gun and the Jack Ryan Collection since they already had release dates (I'm sure there's more but those are the ones I can remember). Possibly even Transformers was being prepped for Blu-Ray, so really Paramount shouldn't have a hard time filling a release schedule.
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post #60 of 106
1/8/08 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan1 View Post

Well, these "rumours" we're denied by Paramount. Nothing here to watch, move on...

Have you read the rest of the discussion?

It's not likely these rumors are false. There is also more info coming out that seems to support it. Don't be so quick, or are you a die hard supporter of HD-DVD?
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post #61 of 106
1/8/08 at 1:05pm
That will change as the size of the HD DVD display shrinks in the coming months, finally ending up next to the bargain bin software like 1000 True Type Fonts! and 100 Exciting Solitaire Games (with customizable cards!).

Like I said, they're carefully weighing their options right now. Holding off on a knee-jerk announcement helps prevent the HD DVD booth at CES from imploding and causing a singularity that will wipe out all humankind. Seriously, if humankind is wiped out, who will they sell content to?
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post #62 of 106
1/8/08 at 1:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

You're forgetting all of the Blu-Ray titles that Paramount was in the process of releasing just before their turn to HD DVD exclusive. At the very least, they should have boxes of Blades of Glory sitting in a warehouse somewhere ready to ship since that was a mere week away from release. And most if not all of the work should be done on several other titles like Next, Top Gun and the Jack Ryan Collection since they already had release dates (I'm sure there's more but those are the ones I can remember). Possibly even Transformers was being prepped for Blu-Ray, so really Paramount shouldn't have a hard time filling a release schedule.

I'm not forgetting that. I'm sure they salted away something for a rainy day, like today.

But it will take a bit of time to get those out there and into the distributers hands, and then into the stores. There may even be contracts to re-sign, etc. It could take a month, possibly more.

And then there are all the movies that they haven't committed to BD. Those will have to be done.
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post #63 of 106
1/8/08 at 1:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancho View Post

Seriously, if humankind is wiped out, who will the sell content to?

Who would care?
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post #64 of 106
1/8/08 at 1:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Who would care?

Cthulhu might. I have it on good authority he'd kill for a BR copy of Transformers...
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post #65 of 106
1/8/08 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancho View Post

Cthulhu might. I have it on good authority he'd kill for a BR copy of Transformers...

Maybe now, he won't have to.
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post #66 of 106
1/8/08 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Maybe now, he won't have to.

I can't tell you how relieved I am...
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post #67 of 106
1/8/08 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Don't be so quick, or are you a die hard supporter of HD-DVD?

Why do you ask? Do i have to be a die hard HD DVD supporter if i don't believe every little rumour popping up? Why is it bugging you so much? How many Apple rumours through the years have been true?

I'm just so fed up with all stupid rumours and everybody is up jumping and yelling like small girls. I think it's just better to just sit tight and see what's going to happen in a week or two.
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post #68 of 106
1/8/08 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan1 View Post

Why do you ask? Do i have to be a die hard HD DVD supporter if i don't believe every little rumour popping up? Why is it bugging you so much? How many Apple rumours through the years have been true?

I'm just so fed up with all stupid rumours and everybody is up jumping and yelling like small girls. I think it's just better to just sit tight and see what's going to happen in a week or two.

You seem to be the uptight one. We didn't accuse you of anything.

If you don't like to discuss rumors, then why are you here on a rumors site, where most of what we do is to discuss rumors?

Stick with MacWorld.
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post #69 of 106
1/8/08 at 1:36pm
I'd expect Paramount to get all their legal ducks in a row before officially announcing anything (so their denial in this case is believable enough). If the HD DVD camp had anything else forthcoming like new manufacturers, new studios or good news of any sort, they'd be using it to help offset the loss of Warner.

As it is, the people manning the HD DVD booth are at the bar drinking snakebites and doing hits of ether.
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post #70 of 106
1/8/08 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You seem to be the uptight one. We didn't accuse you of anything.

If you don't like to discuss rumors, then why are you here on a rumors site, where most of what we do is to discuss rumors?

Stick with MacWorld.

Yup, i might just do that.

You can take your head out of the clouds and put your feet back on the ground.

No hard feelings
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post #71 of 106
1/8/08 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancho View Post

Cthulhu might. I have it on good authority he'd kill for a BR copy of Transformers...


True. Its definitely a situation that's more than meets the eye.

.
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post #72 of 106
1/8/08 at 2:37pm
Gattaca and Blade Runner on BluRay = sexy
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post #73 of 106
1/8/08 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

Gattaca and Blade Runner on BluRay = sexy

Erm.. Blade Runners already out on BD
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post #74 of 106
1/8/08 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

Erm.. Blade Runners already out on BD

Erm...I think you need reading lessons. Did I say it wasn't? I simply said Blade Runner and Gattaca on BluRay = sexy.

Nice of you to chime in though with your $0.02 cents.
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post #75 of 106
1/8/08 at 4:21pm
Geez guys... the 1 reason, and only reason, that VHS won over betamax, is because VHS won over (bought) the porn industry. And here we are again, watching 2 companies fight over 'content providers'. Except of course, the porn industry hasn't been much of a factor this time. They are primarily 'online' now.
Porn goes from seedy theatre to privacy of home with VHS, Porn goes from seedy retail shop to internet for even more privacy.

So there you go, we are guaranteed that 'online' tech will improve to the point where we have HD porn streaming super fast... maybe even VR.
More-so, the rate at which technology is developed for online distribution will outpace BD greatly.
I would put my money that BD will never see a lifespan as long as VHS or DVD.
7 years tops before we don't even use it as data storage.

Porn is a pretty private thing... usually... hopefully.
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post #76 of 106
1/8/08 at 4:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

Erm...I think you need reading lessons. Did I say it wasn't? I simply said Blade Runner and Gattaca on BluRay = sexy.

Nice of you to chime in though with your $0.02 cents.

oooh sarcasm, well done.
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post #77 of 106
1/8/08 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

More-so, the rate at which technology is developed for online distribution will outpace BD greatly.
I would put my money that BD will never see a lifespan as long as VHS or DVD.
7 years tops before we don't even use it as data storage.

Maybe, but till then we need something better than DVD. I'm not going to cripple myself for the next 5 - 10 years waiting for bandwidth to catch up.

I've also had my fair share of HDD's die. Optical media and BR in particular really appeal to me in that regard.
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post #78 of 106
1/8/08 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

Blu-ray is much, much, much better. Not only better quality, but also more content and great for backups. HD-DVD was dead before being born. I am amazed people even purchased that.


Oh god this talking head is back.

The content was pretty much even numerically. The quality was debatable..both formats deliver excellent HD from a good Master.

Backups ...perhaps for some but at current pricing per GB neither optical format is really all that good beyond the home user. Anyone backing up Gigabytes of data daily or weekly is better served looking at backup to disc or leveraging tape (like the DAT 160)

I don't think you should be amazed about HD DVD and our purchases. I just watched Transformers (damn what a great looking disc) and I'm not sitting here crying in my cheerios. I guess my HD DVD player will someday sit there nostalgically next to my Minidisc recorder.

I think Blu-ray fans can save the faux pity party. Battles are fought and the best products (subjectivly) don't always win.

This particular battle has been filled with so much bluster and misinformation I can't wait for it to be gone. Not really all that happy with Blu-ray taking the win but to the victor goes the spoils.
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post #79 of 106
1/8/08 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

Geez guys... the 1 reason, and only reason, that VHS won over betamax, is because VHS won over (bought) the porn industry.

I doubt that's the only reason. Beta SP tapes were only 60 minutes. The cases were small but that's negated by the fact that a movie had to be shipped in two cases. You couldn't tape much from TV either, for the same reason.
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post #80 of 106
1/8/08 at 5:11pm
[QUOTE=JeffDM;1193967][QUOTE=rain;1193941]Geez guys... the 1 reason, and only reason, that VHS won over betamax, is because VHS won over (bought) the porn industry.
Quote:

I doubt that's the only reason. Beta SP tapes were only 60 minutes. The cases were small but that's negated by the fact that a movie had to be shipped in two cases. You couldn't tape much from TV either, for the same reason.

Bingo

VHS won for long play
Liberal license (come one come all)
Sony ignorance/arrogance

With Blu-ray Sony set up a team of loyal vendors and the phalanx held. Pretty amazing really. I don't know what I'm most shocked about...the steadfastness of the BDA members or the total lack of charisma that Toshiba evidently displayed (losing Warner and Paramount as exclusives, signing up 2nd rate vendors who never shipped product)

All in all it was certainly a strange war. In fact it was a war of unfinished product. No Managed Copy, no syncronized downloadable content, interactivity lite.

Blu-ray has a chance to get there but I hope future formats hit the ground a little less half-baked.
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