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Amazon MP3 secures Sony BMG music, all four major labels - Page 2

post #41 of 73
I haven't tried the Amazon MP3 store yet, but one thing that will help them in my book is complete freedom to buy Amazon MP3 tracks with my Hong Kong credit card, HK address, or Paypal linked to those. It's idiotic that I can't just buy US and UK tracks from Apple in HK.

Looks like the Amazon MP3 Store is US only, but it still seems as though we can buy US songs from overseas. Can anyone outside of US verify a successful transaction?
post #42 of 73
Hmm... looks like even if you have an Amazon account and have bought from them in the past, it double verifies your billing address and restricts the address to the US. You also cannot pay with Paypal.

From the Amazon MP3 TOS: "As required by our Digital Content providers, Digital Content will, unless otherwise designated, be available only to customers located in the United States."

Sucks.

Looks like I'm back to buying iTunes gift certificates on eBay.
post #43 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Hmm... looks like even if you have an Amazon account and have bought from them in the past, it double verifies your billing address and restricts the address to the US. You also cannot pay with Paypal.

From the Amazon MP3 TOS: "As required by our Digital Content providers, Digital Content will, unless otherwise designated, be available only to customers located in the United States."

Sucks.

Looks like I'm back to buying iTunes gift certificates on eBay.

So from this it seems that all the Labels, except EMI, have locked themselves into selling DRM free music in the US only, instead of to the wide range of countries that iTunes operates in. Unless of course, as others have mentioned, SJ makes an announcement at Macworld. Mind you, I'm in South Korea so I can't access either as I don't have a credit card from an iTunes based country.
post #44 of 73
I am going to spite Amazon just because they're capitulating to the demands of the record companies, and not me, Joe Consumer.

Has any of these conglomerates ever stopped and asked themselves What would the consumer want?

I suppose Apple should stop and ask the same thing, because the answer sure isn't a music file that can only be played on their device.

Where is the poor, fucking consumer in all of this? Nowhere, that's where.

Think about that when you pay the salary of some fat music bastard in a suit sniffing coke and getting a blowjob in a hotel somewhere in downtown LA.
post #45 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eduardo View Post



Could you clarify this statement. It sounds funny. "They (Apple) never cared about money from music sales". Please. So if Apple doesn't care about "the money" I am assuming that any little bit of money earned is being spent on those less fortunate than us (maybe those reading this topic on a Windows computer).

Apple hardly made ANY money from music sales. Out of every 99 cent track about 60-70 cents went to the label (depending on size. Indies usually got the lower end of the range). Another few cents went to the Artist. Of the remaining 25-35 cents, Apple had to pay for bandwidth, development, customer care, servers, storage, and maintenance of the iTS. Assuming this cost another 5 cents per song, (VERY conservative estimate, I think) that would mean they made about 20-30 cents a song. Considering they took a few years to sell a billion songs, they made about 200 million profit in a few years. Considering Apple's growth in other areas, this was actually a VERY slow moving part of their business, and probably slowing growth (wasting resources that could be used in faster growing areas).

What iTunes did, was prevent the proliferation of WMA crap which macs would not play, or at least not well (thanks MS) and more importantly, introduce digital to a new audience, by making it Extremely easy. They also made iPods more popular since finding music for ipods became very easy.

None of these advantages are lost because of Amazon, since a) DRM free MP3s are first class citizens on macs, b) Most of the world is now not afraid of downloading music, and c) with Amazon's iTunes integration, the ease of use of the iPod ecosystem still exists. It is now essentially iPod+iTunes+Amazon instead of iPod+iTunes+iTs.

The major (and probably only, unless Amazon shifts to DRM free WMA) benefit Apple now derives from iTs over Amazon is that with more people going to iTs rather than Amazon, they are likely to sell more digital videos, making iPods slightly more popular. However, at this point this seems like such a miniscule number of people, its really no big loss for Apple.

However, very soon, once this experiment is over, expect to see all these labels on board iTunes. Like others have mentioned, labels dont want to screw themselves over by selling DRM free in the most popular store, if DRM free tracks were to fail. Amazon is a test run, because the execs will face a ton of shareholder lawsuits if these labels decide that DRM free is good, but keep it away from the most popular digital store in the world.
post #46 of 73
Anyway irrelevant, I'm just putting the finishing touches to my new MP3 download company, watch out Apple and Amazon, there's a new player in town thats gonna spank all your asses. Let the best man win
post #47 of 73
The recent article in Wired on the origins of the iPhone was interesting, not least because it suggested that Apple knew it would have to move beyond the iPod with the likelihood of convergence devices. I wonder if iPod has had its hey day, and had served Apple well enough in generating awareness of the Mac, and giving the iPhone the welcome it has received. Then again, i suppose the iPod has been a great cash cow, and probably still has a number of years ahead of it. Who knows though really. I just hope things keep going well for Apple; I remember the dark ages in the early 1990s, and they were not good times. So far, i've never owned a PC (the closest being my macbook pro), and hope I never have too. But that's all off track. I agree with the sentiment that this is not a bad thing for Apple, and may in fact be a good thing.
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post #48 of 73
Okay, tried Amazon.


Good side; the downloader was very well made, and like advertised, sent the MP3 into my iTunes, complete with tags and album art.


Bad side: I got the wrong song. I selected By the Dashboard Light by Meatloaf. The receipt claims that is what I bought. The actual song I received; I'd Do Anything For Love (But I Won't Do That) by Meatloaf. Right artist, wrong album, wrong song. One out of three isn't...who am I kidding. I wound up buying the song from iTunes, cus...well I've never had that problem with Apple. I'll try Amazon again in the future.
post #49 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Brown View Post

The recent article in Wired on the origins of the iPhone was interesting, not least because it suggested that Apple knew it would have to move beyond the iPod with the likelihood of convergence devices. .

I never understand why people find that surprising, I could have told them from day one that mobiles will eventually kill the iPod.
Just like the mobile will kill microsoft in fewer years than many suspect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Brown View Post

So far, i've never owned a PC (the closest being my macbook pro), and hope I never have too.

Nor me, and I never will, I had 5 computers before getting a mac, and none were a PC, my evolution is thus... ZX81, sinclair spectrum 48k, spectrum 128k, Texas Instruments TI994a, Atari ST, LCII, G3 Tower, Pismo G3, iMac, Pismo G4, G4Tower, MacBook.
post #50 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

I smell two things. 1. collusion between the record labels "anybody but apple" which I believe is illegal.
and 2. the record labels looking for a scape goat, as in "see EU, Apple IS EVIL"

No, the EU is correct, Apple prices all their products differently all over the EU (and it is not just the VAT differences either), and we should be able to take advantage of purchasing from the cheaper EU store.
post #51 of 73
1. As long as the Amazon music store is US only, it will not damage iTS dominance as badly as many people think.
2. As many have already pointed out, Amazon and iTunes have always played nice with each other.
3. With deals like the iTunes / Starbucks collaboration as an example, Apple will always find ways to keep iTunes interesting for consumers.

Having said all that, you have to admit that that the labels offering tracks through Amazon as MP3 instead of AAC is a pretty brilliant PR move, given that most consumers view AAC as an Apple-only technology.
post #52 of 73
I do not think this is so bad for Apple.

It is good for the consumer, however from my persective it angers me that the "big 4" are doing this and excluding Apple (unless MacWorld brings something) Because of this I will not be using the Amazon store and will be sourcing my DRM free music elsewhere.

Do you smell that? Smells like fat record execs dieing
post #53 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

As soon as you burn those purchases to CD and then rip them back into iTunes. Depending on how many protected AAC files you have, it might just be the work of a single evening. And yet, a month from now, there will still be people asking that same question.

Except that that procedure loses you quality unless you rip back into a larger, uncompressed or losslessly compressed format. The only way to get the original AAC data in unlocked format is to use QTFairUse or MyFairTunes, both of which only work on Windows.

This information has been available for many years, and yet people still make the "burn to CD and rip back" suggestion.
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post #54 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by csimmons View Post

Having said all that, you have to admit that that the labels offering tracks through Amazon as MP3 instead of AAC is a pretty brilliant PR move, given that most consumers view AAC as an Apple-only technology.

You know, I've always thought that the biggest mistake the MPEG-LA made with AAC was calling it AAC rather than mp4. If it was called mp4, you can bet that everyone would have moved to it by now, because as every consumer "knows", bigger numbers = better.

Anyway, it would be nice if Amazon moved to a system like allofmp3, allowing you to choose the format you wish to purchase. It surprises me that Amazon and Emusic only offer mp3 and not AAC, as they have to pay royalties for selling tracks in mp3 format, but not for selling them in AAC format.
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post #55 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Anyway irrelevant, I'm just putting the finishing touches to my new MP3 download company, watch out Apple and Amazon, there's a new player in town thats gonna spank all your asses. Let the best man win

Well if you can sell British catalogue tracks in a format other than protected WMA to customers without a UK billing address, then you've got a customer.

If 7Digital didn't sell worthless protected WMA, I would have bought hundreds of tracks from them that I can't get anywhere else, mostly B-sides.
post #56 of 73
You're quite right. I had thought about it before, but reminded my self about it after reading the wired article.

My computers have been in reverse: currently Macbook pro, clamshell ibook, a DV CRT iMac, Power Macintosh 5400, Power Macintosh 6100. These were ones which were actually mine, otherwise my dad had numerous other macs going back to the first one. I'm pretty sure he bought an an osborn 1 when it first came out too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

I never understand why people find that surprising, I could have told them from day one that mobiles will eventually kill the iPod.
Just like the mobile will kill microsoft in fewer years than many suspect.



Nor me, and I never will, I had 5 computers before getting a mac, and none were a PC, my evolution is thus... ZX81, sinclair spectrum 48k, spectrum 128k, Texas Instruments TI994a, Atari ST, LCII, G3 Tower, Pismo G3, iMac, Pismo G4, G4Tower, MacBook.
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post #57 of 73
If the complaint against apple is price, why is amazon still selling for the same 99 cents?
post #58 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDavies View Post

If the complaint against apple is price, why is amazon still selling for the same 99 cents?

Maybe Amazon is paying the record companies 20 c for each song sold, just to undermine apple.

Jokes aside, it must be (well, may be) either that Amazon is getting less for each song than Apple would, or that Amazon is getting the same amount, but that the record companies decided it would be better in the long term to breakdown Apple's share of the market.
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post #59 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Brown View Post

Jokes aside, it must be (well, may be) either that Amazon is getting less for each song than Apple would, or that Amazon is getting the same amount, but that the record companies decided it would be better in the long term to breakdown Apple's share of the market.

Some possibilities:
Amazon is using the Wal-Mart model of selling music at a loss to get you in the store/website.
This is just a promotional period. Once they feel they have you they will start variable pricing based on popularity.
The record labels want to bring down iTunes at all costs. By leveling the playing field they think Apple that will bend to 'their' will finally.
They are are managed by manatees using management balls.
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post #60 of 73
I've avoided the Amazon store so far - mostly out of principal. I love the idea of the DRM free music, but I hate the fact that the record companies are excluding Apple, and for all we know giving Amazon a better deal.

It would seem to me that the point for the record labels is to break Apple's monopoly on downloadable music, and not eliminate them all together. Giving Amazon DRM free MP3's breaks the monopoly...

I know Apple doesn't make much (if anything) from the music store, but I sure like the iTunes shopping experience, and I would like to continue getting my music from Apple.

I really hope Steve announces that we can get the same DRM-free music at iTunes that you can get from Amazon.

This whole thing realy pi**es me off...
post #61 of 73
I guess I have to be one to buck trend here, and yes I know this is an Apple site. However I find the use of iTunes horrid for buying tracks, and very inconvenient, at home I have an AMD box running Ubuntu, but even if I were running Windows on it, I would NEVER, EVER install iTunes on Windows. iTunes on Windows is just too bloated and useless, takes up a ton of unnecessary RAM, even when it is not running. I installed it once for a friend who insisted I install it for them, and when it was done I thought I had installed AOL with all the background apps that it had to run, and all the files that ran at startup, one of which I couldn't get to not run at startup no matter what I tried.

Amazon on the other hand, requires no installation, and I use their site anyway for other purchases all the time as it is. Their mp3 store is just painless for me.

I also did not own an iPod until recently, and really if I had a choice again I would still not own one, however it was free with the purchase of a new machine for work here so I said what the heck. It has hardware lock up issues all the time, spends tons of power when powered down, I leave it for a week without playing and the headphones unplugged, and it is at half charge at best, and yes I put on the hold button when I shut it off so that it doesn't turn on accidentally.

So for me this is the best news I have heard in a long time, there are just some artists I don't want a whole cd from, and some others that release a song for download 3-5 months ahead of the release, and I want that song on a cd much sooner. And as has been said, the burn and rip method sucks, the songs come out sounding flat and just off, and they don't even sound that great on the cd, however mp3's sound fine in my car when I burn them to a cd, maybe if Apple used VBR instead of CBR on the download tracks that may be better, but other than file size the difference in quality is not enough for me to notice, especially not on cheap headphones coming out of a low snr connection on an iPod or other mp3 device. And for home ripping I prefer Vorbis anyway, even better compression above 64kb and better sound I think when burned back to a cd.

[/rant]
post #62 of 73
Its ironic that Apple pushes for this and then the music companies do the same thing with a competitor. What did Amazon offer that Apple didn't? Steve jobs may start changing the iTunes model now that they aren't the only ones offering what the music listener wants, and if they do the music companies would be stupid to refuse.
post #63 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Except that that procedure losses you quality...

Mr. H
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post #64 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

We the consumer win and It started with Napster not iTunes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What started with the consumer? DRM-free downloads? Yes. But it was Napster (ie: illegal file sharing) that soured the idea for the music industry of selling music downloads on the internet to begin with. Not that they wouldn't have been acted the same way, but they sure made it tough after Napster.

Yeah but that doesn't matter. Napster got the wheels turning. They may have lost the original battle but they got everything thinking and the years finally led to what we have now. Same as trackers like Oink. The people spoke and took action by showing the industry how they wanted to access music and we got our way. If no one gave a shit or never started dl'ing music we'd still be lining up at stores and buying over priced CD's. Unfortunately mp3's suck and lossless is the only way to go if you are intending on moving from hard to digital.
post #65 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilco View Post

Mr. H
Language Police


Even the Police make mistakes sometimes . Thanks for pointing it out. All fixed.
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post #66 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

No, the EU is correct, Apple prices all their products differently all over the EU (and it is not just the VAT differences either), and we should be able to take advantage of purchasing from the cheaper EU store.

It was late and that wasnt the point i was making. the record companies IMO are moving to a position where Apple is the big player in town and {Record companies}" Apple is using horrid DRM, when we WANT to offer it DRM free honest EU we really do, but their "non standard" AAC wont let us" its a load of FUD posturing I can see, but its so easy to quash that it SHOULDN'T matter.

BUT, expect to see a lot of "they said, we said" back and forth in the rumour sites between Apple and the record companies, unless of course iSteve delivers the goods on the 15th. which I hope he does

Again, this is only my opinion and I'd like to be proven wrong.
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post #67 of 73
Just an idea..

IF these other stores that sell unprotected MP3s like Amazon were to offer a Web Services type API allowing other sites to provide a front end to purchases through them then iTunes could evolve into an app that lets you search for music accross multiple stores and buy the file thats best (price, bit rate tradeoff etc)

In every conference call where the iTunes store has been mentioned Apple has only ever said 'the iTunes store operated at above break even during the quarter'

that suggests to me music sales through iTunes have only ever just broken even, as others have said Apples main goal is to sell iPods/iPhones and one way to do this is to ensure iTunes is the preferred software for digital music purchase & organisation - giving consumers a choice through iTunes like that would surely only drive up iPod/phone sales and free Apple from the headache of negotiating with greedy and stubborn music execs leaving it to conventrate on what it does best...
post #68 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Anyway irrelevant, I'm just putting the finishing touches to my new MP3 download company, watch out Apple and Amazon, there's a new player in town thats gonna spank all your asses. Let the best man win

Can't wait for your new store. Hope this review helps you compete with the big boys...

Can't resist adding my 2-cents on Amazon store, since I know many have not yet tried it.
It does what it is advertises, but does nothing to inspire me to want to keep using it. A simple download takes care of routing purchases into iTunes, so at least Bezos got that right. And the quality of music seems fine (in 4 purchases I've not had any incorrect songs as posted here-lucky me!). The killer is, and I suppose this just makes it like many things un-Apple'd, the interface. It is such a miserable, difficult experience, compared to (the admittedly more and more cluttered and difficult) iTunes. I truly hate it. When I am looking for a specific song, no problem. I& can search for it and up it comes. But there is no elegence to browsing, no easy integration of additional music by the artist in question.

I resist, always, the temptation to default and say "Apple is best" (no, I'm not sure why I'm afraid of just caving and being a blind fanboy). But in this case, there is not question. Here's hoping I can oneday soon get all of the benefits this DRM-based competition will bring AND never have to stray past iTunes to have them.

(Gang, can somebody insult someone else's opinion soon? My primary reason for reading these daily is to hear Apple news, see what's coming and hear what many of you think. But nothing beats the poor grammar and blind rage coming from those trying to knock someone else down, or assert why they know more. Thanks in advance-it is always funny and always makes me laugh at you. Heck, tee-off on me if it helps me get my laugh on....)
post #69 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by urtho View Post

I also did not own an iPod until recently, and really if I had a choice again I would still not own one, however it was free with the purchase of a new machine for work here so I said what the heck. It has hardware lock up issues all the time, spends tons of power when powered down, I leave it for a week without playing and the headphones unplugged, and it is at half charge at best, and yes I put on the hold button when I shut it off so that it doesn't turn on accidentally.

To actually turn off an ipod, you have to hold down the center button for a couple of seconds. Merely locking the ipod means the internals are still running, but just preventing the acidental activation of the screen and such.

Sorry about the hardware issues. I've never had any issues with my B&W 4G Classic. Maybe you should see about an exchange?
post #70 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaijaz View Post

Personally I'll happily buy Apple's DRM'ed music over Amazon's every day of the week. Why? Best of the better file quallty of ACC. Even at the 128kbs bit rate, that most of Apple's is, it still sounds better that Amazon's out dated 256kbs MP3 format. Then if you are lucky you might get one of the DRM free 256kbs ACC files.

Personally I'm not trying to do anything illegal with my music, so I'll go DRM and quality over DRM-less and old technology.

Probably the only reason Amazon has to use MP3, is because most of the other music player manufactors are treating the consumer like cattle.

Neither MP3 or AAC equal quality music. In both the now and future.
I can't understand why people buy music without it being at least CD quality and lossles without DRM. How do you expect to use that music in the future with future codecs and player when codecs get replaced and music players get replaced or dropped all together?

Businesses should be taking advantage of this online market and release FLAC versions of the album too. Businesses should be more about quality than crap.
And at a reasonable price. The world is getting so F***ed up, its not even something one should think of funnily.
We are on our way to low quality garbage at a mega high price, where people don't make much money anymore for doing even hard jobs.
And i believe a lot of it has to do with people not DEMANDING better. They just settle for whatever is there, they take the easy way out, and in the end make things harder.
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post #71 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmas View Post

Its ironic that Apple pushes for this and then the music companies do the same thing with a competitor. What did Amazon offer that Apple didn't?

Humility, perhaps?
post #72 of 73
Meanwhile, Amazon downloads are STILL not available in Canada (or other countries for that matter). Ho-hum... Apple has already broken so much ground with Canadian consumers, albeit slowly, but I blame the CTRC for that.

And, the iTunes Music Store is just smexy!! Why would I want to use a Web Browser to view music, and a wimpy Mp3 Downloader to save my music?

Oh... and what's with this non-DRM thing anyway? I can see a major insurgence of 'quality' music on Peer-to-Peer networks soon. By quality, I mean Amazon or the recording studios already did the ripping, and the customers will do the redistribution.

DRM is a necessity... just, FairPlay should be made available as a Windows Media Player plug-in.

Windows Vista Winer-Crybabies...
post #73 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

Many years ago, when I worked for a CD-ROM publishing company, the owner said, "Content is king".

Unfortunately without content, Apple is being played by those with. It seems like an "anybody but Apple" strategy to bring Apple down. How soon they forget where they were before iTunes and legal downloading.

I don't think it's a problem. iTunes supports their hardware business. If the content comes from somewhere else, that's fine, it's never been hard to add. Apple makes more money on the hardware anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swmooretiger View Post

Content matters, but not to a company like Apple. The iTMS only exists to provide content for the iPod/iPhone. If Apple didn't sell the iPod, they wouldn't have the store, not the other way around.

Amazon's service integrates very well with iTunes, allowing consumers to very easily purchase content from Amazon, but still buy their hardware from Apple.

In the end, I think it was the labels who were out played by Apple. They did what SJ wanted while thinking they were in control and really sticking it to Apple. Now the content market will start to free up, and people will have no good reason not to buy an iPod or iPhone to play their DRM free music.

Edit: Don't forget that it was Apple who also pushed to break albums up into individual songs. Apple "won" in that situation by having the first digital store to provide single tracks. However, the music was still laced with DRM.

The DRM isn't _that_ bad. Usually it's a nuisance at worst. It's DRM is possibly the freest out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

amazon.com has to be one of the worst-designed and unappealing websites in the world. I hate going there. I hate shopping there.

Let's see how successful they are with their music download business (assuming that it matters much -- except for the signals that it sends -- to Apple).

That said, I have to say that the iTunes store website is also slowly (but steadily) beginning to look like cluttered crap.

I suppose Amazon could be cleaned up a bit, but I really haven't ever had a problem with their site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

First HD DVD, now iTunes? What's next in 2008?

I doubt iTunes is going to die soon. Apple has most of the legal download market tied up and I think they're the #4 or #3 music seller. Maybe their significance would fade, but I don't think Apple, Amazon or the labels are going to kill the service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaijaz View Post

Personally I'll happily buy Apple's DRM'ed music over Amazon's every day of the week. Why? Best of the better file quallty of ACC. Even at the 128kbs bit rate, that most of Apple's is, it still sounds better that Amazon's out dated 256kbs MP3 format. Then if you are lucky you might get one of the DRM free 256kbs ACC files.

Personally I'm not trying to do anything illegal with my music, so I'll go DRM and quality over DRM-less and old technology.

Have you actually tried to make a double-blind comparison on your own, or are you just going by prejudice here? By every account I've seen, Amazon's 256kbps VBR MP3 is very close to Apple's 256 CBR AAC. MP3 may be older, but it's pretty mature, and there may yet still be some improvement on the encoder side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe View Post

I smell two things. 1. collusion between the record labels "anybody but apple" which I believe is illegal.
and 2. the record labels looking for a scape goat, as in "see EU, Apple IS EVIL"

and I can't imagine Apple legal backing down from either.

It is possible for the labels to independently decide against Apple. To prove collusion, you have to have proof that the companies have been communicating directly with each other. Even if it's true, it's hard to prove.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Good thoughts.

In any case, while only one next-gen DVD format may survive, multiple music stores can survive. Some people talk as though ANYONE else finding ANY success means that iTunes won't be #1 anymore. In fact, some suggest that iTunes will QUICKLY not be #1 anymore. In fact... some go so far as to suggest iTunes' Doom Doesn't really make a lot of sense.

If it's DRM free, then the store doesn't matter. The DVD equivalent for the previous model goes something like you buy a DVD player from a store chain, you must then buy the DVDs from the same chain too or it won't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

We the consumer win and It started with Napster not iTunes.

Napster was not a store, nor was it legal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

You must be kiddding-right? Then why offer it for sale in the first place? Apple even wants you to buy more music at Starbucks! Thank god the internet is free. If Apple could, they would sell access to the internet as well.

Internet is not free as in no cost. Many companies sell internet access, someone pays for the internet. Fiber optic cables and DSL loops don't lay themselves. Servers and switches don't buy themselves. The same goes with upgrades and maintenance. Even if you're using your neighbor's AP, your neighbor is the one paying for it. Starbuck's pays for Internet to get people to buy their coffee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

I am going to spite Amazon just because they're capitulating to the demands of the record companies, and not me, Joe Consumer.

What demands is Amazon capitulating to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by urtho View Post

I guess I have to be one to buck trend here, and yes I know this is an Apple site. However I find the use of iTunes horrid for buying tracks, and very inconvenient, at home I have an AMD box running Ubuntu, but even if I were running Windows on it, I would NEVER, EVER install iTunes on Windows. iTunes on Windows is just too bloated and useless, takes up a ton of unnecessary RAM, even when it is not running. I installed it once for a friend who insisted I install it for them, and when it was done I thought I had installed AOL with all the background apps that it had to run, and all the files that ran at startup, one of which I couldn't get to not run at startup no matter what I tried.

I've not had your problems with iTunes on Windows. I can and do run iTunes on a six year old Windows computer and it runs just fine. Its memory consumption isn't bad, it's in league with the average web browser. It only takes a lot of memory when you use CoverFlow, and that's because the cover art needs to be in memory to do that smoothly.

There is a tiny service for iTunes, but it's not a CPU or memory hog. There should be a flag in the advanced preferences pane that tells iTunes to start or not start when an iPod is disconnected. That's all it does, start iTunes when you plug in your iPod.
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