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Report claims "major" Apple TV update in the pipeline - Page 2

post #41 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdcryan View Post

Here's a thought that would get me to buy one... include an HDMI input on the AppleTV and push your cable boxes (or TiVo or whatever)'s output through the AppleTV. While I understand HDMI has some copy restrictions that may prevent this type of passthrough or relay, I would hope that Apple has enough industry connections to make it work.

I said this when AppleTV 1st came out.. many people dismissed it and said "WE HAVE PLENTY OF HDMI" - yea well in my universe most sets come with 3

1 for cable box
1 for dvd
1 for game system

Leaves Apples device out in the cold!

Dave
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post #42 of 155
yeah, if apple adds an ATSC/clear QAM double tuner to the mix in north america, and an HDTV capable DVB-T/S/C 2x tuner in europe, then it would make much more sense...

also it needs real fullHD capability, people want 1080p capability, even if they have no idea what it really means... LOL
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post #43 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

Jeff DM - I live a mile from downtown and the tall buildings. Most of the HD towers are about 6-12 miles away. I tried an OTA antenna for my Directv box. I had to aim the indoor antenna precisely to get results. Do you think I'd do better with Elgato? If so - I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

TV signals travel straight... you always have to point directly to the source... ATSC/DVB-T travels up to 100km, 60miles... but your view towards the emitter has to be unobstructed!
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post #44 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

Can you now?!

I live some 23 short miles away from NYC and I can't get a single freakin signal! If I can't get a good (nee ANY) HD signal when I'm only 23 miles outside of NYC then that certainly says ALOT about the current status of HD broadcast antennas....

Imagine the US government effectively FORCED me into paying for cable if I want to stay informed about any emergency broadcasts.

Oh and before someone says radio... Unless I'm mistaken they have a roadmap to do away with anal. radio too...

Freakin crock!

Dave


then you have a hill or a wooden area obstructing your signal, you need a rooftop antenna then, will cost you around $200... with a good antenna you will receive ATSC/DVB-T up to 120km/75miles from the emitter... it just needs to be high enough and the further out you need more gain, everything over 30miles you need an amplifier!

it's worth it! ATSc is real 1280x720 or 1920x1080, SAT and cable compress much more and the resolution is 10-20% less than ATSC OTA... SAT/cable usally is 1440x1080 or 960x540 h264 highly compressed as opposed to the ATSC signaal that is mpeg2 @ 10-16Mbit/sec @ full resolution... sometimes the local stations transmit the SAT h264 feed, then the resulting image looks horrible, twice compressed can't look good...

sports should be 1280x720 since it's 60fps, 1920x1080 is 30fps, not enough for fast sports movement... broadcasters should be flexible, movies in 1920x1080i, sports in 1280x720p...
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post #45 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayInSF View Post

This is an incredibly short-sighted (not to mention just plain stupid) position on the part of Sony and Universal. Apple is NOT a rival. They're a MARKET. Their position is analogous to say, Frito-Lay saying they're not going to sell their chips at Safeway because Safeway is a rival. Of course that would be stupid. Safeway is a major market for snack chips and other food, just as the iTunes Store is a major market for music, video and other media.

Competition is a good thing, and I'm glad to see other media markets, such as the TiVo / Amazon Unbox market coming on strong, but the content providers need to embrace the iTunes Store as a market and not get into this ridiculous notion of seeing them as a 'rival'. It's bad for the content providers, and it's bad for us (consumers). It won't have much of an impact on Apple, as their hardware business largely shields them from the ups and downs of the media market business.

Not quite analogous to Frito-Lay and Safeway in a number of ways.

First both Sony and Apple ARE in the music publishing business already, and Apple could decide to get much deeper in. Think of iTunes exclusive releases and the ability of indie bands to go through a "artist/group aggregator" to get their music on iTunes when it may be available nowhere else. Not to mention non-DRM'ed audio and video podcasts of music.

And Apple's CEO happens to have a bit of experience (and a Board of Directors side gig) in the successful movie-making and distribution biz. So he might have a few trenchant thoughts on the future of that as well.

There have been persistent rumors and speculations that Apple may decide to begin eliminating music middlemen, i.e., music labels entirely, and sign artists to release directly to iTMS. And the labels, who add much more overhead and superstructure relating to ancient distribution/promotion channels are certainly vulnerable, and after 2007's physical media sales drop, have reason to be worried about their dinosaur status.

However, since (if) Apple is not currently -- according to them and others -- not really making much of their income from iTMS, and want to strengthen their hardware lineup across the spectrum that's being carved out by synergy between Macs, iPods and other "Apple/i Devices." The goal would be to become your one-stop digital media and communications stop for all the devices you need, so perhaps they're more likely than posters here think to "cannabalize" some iTMS sales to build a "devices customer base" and make a device that indeed integrates new parts of the experiences currently provided by TIVO, X-Box, optical disc playing, etc., where what's coming over the cable or satellite and what's coming through the door (DVD's of all stripes) is integrated seamlessly with what's available on the net, through iTMS, YouTube, etc. and what's stored on your computers and iPods.

The net result, if such a device captured the public's imagination (an Apple, Inc. specialty) could be larger iTMS sales down the road from a larger, more video-oriented customer base than that which propelled the iPod to prominence then dominance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by websnap View Post

The PS3 (a well selling BR player) is selling at 399 here in canada. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple and Sony partnered together to give blu-Ray an iPod-like shot in the arm, especially if it looks favorably to entice Sony movie downloads into the iTS eco-system. If this was the case I can see sony taking a hit on the drive to supply them to Apple. People want to get in on the ground floor of the next iPod-like item, just like AT&T did, with the iPhone. If Intel and apple could put aside differences for common business good, I sure SOny can do the same since they have just as much to gain.

There could be more partnering of various kinds down the road, though I suspect AT&T increasingly looks at Apple much the way a male praying mantis looks at the female it's copulating with: very, very carefully. Again, it's all rumor, but people keep speculating that Apple eventually may not need ONE partner in the phone business -- or even any if they decide to stitch together the combo's of various bandwidths to offer phone service.

Numerous ISV's can testify with great authority about the dual-edged sword nature of adding cool new capabilities to the Mac, only to see them reverse-engineered into the next version of OS X and other Apple software. Including, yes, Microsoft. Redmond doesn't own the only photocopying culture in the digital world.

Still, I've always seen potential synergies (as well as major rivalries) between Sony and Apple, so stranger things could happen. And the Starbucks thing happened (a partnership with a company I've followed avidly from day one with another I wouldn't patronize unless a gun's being held to my head, but more power to Apple for it). So why not other unexpected partnerships.....

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post #46 of 155
If they come out with a new piece of hardware thats gonna totally suck and will piss a lot of people off...I for one, just bought my Apple TV for Christmas and as it is now, the UI sucks with the new version of Iphoto and leopard. They could come out with a new hardware but please o please, give us a firmware update to fix all the glitches on it now!
post #47 of 155
With Apple online movie rental I doubt that they will add any type of media (DVD, HD-DVD, Blue-Ray ... etc) input to AppleTV. Apple want you to use their content on AppleTV.
post #48 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2boxy View Post

I for one, just bought my Apple TV for Christmas...

That was you?
post #49 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

With Apple online movie rental I doubt that they will add any type of media (DVD, HD-DVD, Blue-Ray ... etc) input to AppleTV. Apple want you to use their content on AppleTV.

Okay so what do I do with my 500+ dvd collection? unplug replug every time I wanna use ATV and no a switch box will not work I have a wife and inlaws etc that will always find a way to screw them up and not be able to watch anything till I get home to 'fix' things.

D
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post #50 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

Okay so what do I do with my 500+ dvd collection? unplug replug every time I wanna use ATV and no a switch box will not work I have a wife and inlaws etc that will always find a way to screw them up and not be able to watch anything till I get home to 'fix' things.

D

you buy a 2TB HDD and rip the 500 DVD's... ;-)

and from now on you dl the DVD's @ mininova/isohunt/TPB ;-) there's tons of HD'DVD/BR discs already available... ;-)
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post #51 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancho View Post

If it includes a Blu Ray player then I might add one to my collection of Apple hardware. At a very minimum, it *needs* to be able to play DVDs. I want to replace a piece of hardware, not another one.

That's my position exactly.

I just bought a Blu-Ray player (placed my HD-DVD player and discs on eBay), but I'm not unpacking the Blu-Ray for a few days. If AppleTV has Blu-Ray, I'll return my Blu-Ray player.

However, I don't think that's likely. It goes against Apple's vision for AppleTV. I'd love to be wrong, though.
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post #52 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Whats the betting we get actual 'real' Apple branded TV's on tuesday? Rather than a box of tricks.
Consumers are pretty dumb, they just want to buy a TV and turn it on, not muck about with extra external boxes and new-fangled connectors.


Anyone savvy enough to be even wanting downloaded content already has some sort of monitor, and has no use for another, hardwired monitor.

Apple is not going to get into selling TV displays.
post #53 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post

Why not simply add DVD streaming from your Mac to the AppleTV box?

So that I can go downstairs to put a DVD in the 'puter then trudge back upstairs to watch it?
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post #54 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

I said this when AppleTV 1st came out.. many people dismissed it and said "WE HAVE PLENTY OF HDMI" - yea well in my universe most sets come with 3

1 for cable box
1 for dvd
1 for game system

Leaves Apples device out in the cold!

Dave

Check out
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._apple_tv.html

Also there are a lot of other HDMI switch boxes available.
post #55 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancho View Post

If it includes a Blu Ray player then I might add one to my collection of Apple hardware. At a very minimum, it *needs* to be able to play DVDs. I want to replace a piece of hardware, not another one.

Spot on again Bancho! I'd love to see Apple release the AppleTV with a Blu-ray player.
post #56 of 155
As a concession to those VOD fanatics I'd even accept an add-on optical drive if, and only if, it matched the aTV's aesthetics and stacked securely with it. The point is, with 200 or so DVD's and about 20 BR discs and growing, I don't want to keep adding more and more devices if it isn't absolutely necessary.
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post #57 of 155
What in the world do you need FOUR TUNERS FOR??? If you have to record three streams at once while watching another show, you REALLY need to get out more..

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandor View Post

i'd much rather see a combination of softwares - add SageTV to the AppleTV for tuning needs.
www.sagetv.com

then let network tuners do the work
http://www.silicondust.com/wiki/products/hdhomerun


the fact is a dual tuner like the HDHR above is about the same size as the AppleTV - not really a great solution. But if tuner *software* can be integrated into AppleTV (or if Apple releases some kind of SDK for creating 3rd party integration) then the AppleTV simply has to schedule recordings, and the network tuner can record all the data to your desktop computer.

I've been using SageTV for a while now (OTA only) and love it. their mac server and clients work well, and using a pair of HDHDR's i have 4 ATSC tuners at my disposal. I would just love to be able to use the AppleTV as an extender for Sage... I've tried EyeTV as well, and it seems, well, horrid compared to SageTV.


Anyway, i, for one, am really looking forward to an update to AppleTV.
post #58 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by snodman View Post

I'll bet there is a Sony-Apple iTunes store deal for movie rentals as well. It is in both companies interest to move this whole thing forward.

After seeing how much Vista gets hosed with the advanced DRM in the new HD movie formats, it makes MUCH more sense to stick a Blu Ray player onto an Apple TV than it does to cripple OS X to enable play back of Blu Ray movies on your basic Mac. Besides, Apple TVs have HDMI outputs, while Macs do not and much of the DRM in the new HD formats relies on HDCP over HDMI.

I have a HDCP graphics card and monitor that both use DVI-D. It's not just HDMI. I even think the new displayport can use HDCP (although I also believe it has it's own encryption built in)

I also don't think Apple would have to go to the length that Vista did just to play Blu movies.
post #59 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Why oh why I always asked have the Apple stores featured Sony monitors paired with their AppleTVs for demonstration?? Surely Apple could have used another manufacturer other then Sony?? Or a generic one even. Why has Sony been given this free advertising??

lets see.. Sony has some of the best consumer LCDs in the market.. Is that one even debated anymore?
post #60 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Especially an empty box where you supposed to keep buying content from Itunes only to make it work. Put a disc drive in it already or let is stream DVD's from our computers while they play. If you can't rip DVD's in iTunes then let us stream them from our computers. Or are we only to spend more $$ for Itunes content?

although easily technically feasible (bitrate of DVDs is like 8-10mbps) WHY IN THE WORLD would someone WANT to do that? 99.9% of people who watch movies own a DVD player already connected to their TV. Why would they run to their mac to put the dvd in the drive??? That makes absolutely no logical sense.
post #61 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

Can you now?!

I live some 23 short miles away from NYC and I can't get a single freakin signal! If I can't get a good (nee ANY) HD signal when I'm only 23 miles outside of NYC then that certainly says ALOT about the current status of HD broadcast antennas....

Imagine the US government effectively FORCED me into paying for cable if I want to stay informed about any emergency broadcasts.

Oh and before someone says radio... Unless I'm mistaken they have a roadmap to do away with anal. radio too...

Freakin crock!

Dave

"force" ? . Yeah it's called you and all the other analog broadcast people are tying up a ton of expensive and useful bandwidth due to stubbornness to join the 21st century.
post #62 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

DVDs are still fine for me. If I'm anything like the majority of Americans, we're waiting for the price of HDTVs (all varieties) to drop further before buying. Blu-Ray has little interest for me now, they are simply too expensive (the players and the media).

Having said that, I think it's coming to do or die time for AppleTV. They need to vastly improve it, or drop it.

I surely wouldn't say majority. I think the last survey was at about ~52% have HDTVs
post #63 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

To All who replied...

I and nobody in my area gets digital OTA signals... they simply do not make it to here... mountain maybe? I dunno but all I do know is without a 200' tower I simply will not get any signal (acording to CEDA antenna-website..

Dave

Where do you live? how many miles outside metro area?
post #64 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

although easily technically feasible (bitrate of DVDs is like 8-10mbps) WHY IN THE WORLD would someone WANT to do that? 99.9% of people who watch movies own a DVD player already connected to their TV. Why would they run to their mac to put the dvd in the drive??? That makes absolutely no logical sense.

Thank you winterspan. I thought I was the only one who saw that little logistical oversight.

I would, however, like the aTV much more if it could supplant the DVD player for me since it's a much tighter package and I could enjoy the other benefits it offers.
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post #65 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

Okay so what do I do with my 500+ dvd collection? unplug replug every time I wanna use ATV and no a switch box will not work I have a wife and inlaws etc that will always find a way to screw them up and not be able to watch anything till I get home to 'fix' things.

D

why on earth would you have to "unplug/replug"? Your tv has one input? Plus look the other guy said, maybe Apple would do a passthrough feed
post #66 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Also there are a lot of other HDMI switch boxes available.

You don't have a mother-inlaw, mother, wife operating your TV do you... Switch boxes and such have never had the WAF seal of usability...

WAF being Wife approval factor

Dave
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post #67 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

why on earth would you have to "unplug/replug"? Your tv has one input? Plus look the other guy said, maybe Apple would do a passthrough feed

Please read my posts...


3 Inputs.. (hdmi inputs)

1 - Cable box
2 - DVD
3 - Game console


And switch boxes... Oh I give up already... Silly me the AppleTV is perfect JUST THE WAY IT IS!

Steveie old boy, don't change a thing!

Dave
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post #68 of 155
It's great seeing so many people post about upcoming changes to the Itv. I am a huge apple enthusiast, and have a few hopes.....If they have found a way to compress HD so that it appears as
HD, but can be downloaded.....COOL! This has been rumored, and certainly would make
the Itv more desirable. Obviously we can't download a 40gb blu-ray movie. That's just silly. But something that appears like HD, and it's downloadable.....oooooo. I sincerely doubt they are including a blu-ray player on the unit because of cost, but if they have found a way to make the unit with one,.....hey, cool. I"d rather not though since I already own a ps3, and have blu-ray.
Obviously there's going to be some sort of big content change with all the hooplah about the different companies signing on for the rental service......
post #69 of 155
For everyone who says there is no way Apple would include an optical drive...ever hear of compromise and negotiation? It's pretty common in the business world.

Including an optical drive (preferably BlueRay) would go a very long way towards appeasing the studios. Apple includes a drive, the studios agree to let Apple rent movie via iTunes. The studios protect their physical media sales and Apple expands the iTunes universe and sells more AppleTVs.

Win-win for everybody!

The switch to digital video downloads isn't going to happen overnight (content, bandwidth, etc are still challenges to be overcome). 5 years after the introduction of the iTunes Music Store, and CD sales still far outstrip digital download purchases. The video transition will take at least as long. This could be the perfect transitional device.

Also, last time I checked, iTunes still plays all my CDs. Apple isn't forcing me to buy all my music from the iTunes Store. So it's not like there is no precedent for Apple supporting optical media that competes with iTunes sales. Imaging how big of a failure the iPod would have been if it had depended from day 1 on iTunes purchased content.
post #70 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

For everyone who says there is no way Apple would include an optical drive...ever hear of compromise and negotiation? It's pretty common in the business world.

Including an optical drive (preferably BlueRay) would go a very long way towards appeasing the studios. Apple includes a drive, the studios agree to let Apple rent movie via iTunes. The studios protect their physical media sales and Apple expands the iTunes universe and sells more AppleTVs.

Win-win for everybody!

The switch to digital video downloads isn't going to happen overnight (content, bandwidth, etc are still challenges to be overcome). 5 years after the introduction of the iTunes Music Store, and CD sales still far outstrip digital download purchases. The video transition will take at least as long. This could be the perfect transitional device.

Also, last time I checked, iTunes still plays all my CDs. Apple isn't forcing me to buy all my music from the iTunes Store. So it's not like there is no precedent for Apple supporting optical media that competes with iTunes sales. Imaging how big of a failure the iPod would have been if it had depended from day 1 on iTunes purchased content.


Wait a minute. Why would adding Blu-ray appease the studios? They're in the business of selling content whether it be on optical disc or electronic. I don't really see where the "appeasement" comes through. Digital bits requires a microfraction of the space that you need for a tangible product like Blu-ray. Studios most likely want to reduce their logistics costs and resell content over and over. The studios aren't trying to protect their physical sales they're trying to augment them with profitable IP ventures. They certainly don't want piracry but if they can license content and forgo the immense costs of pressing discs they will do so.

Yes iTunes plays your CDs but you didn't have to buy a CD player bundled with your iPod. It worked with existing CD hardware in most cases. There's no need to bundle an expensive optical drive for a product that is aimed at leveraging online content.

It's not going to happen. Just like the Mac Pros don't have Blu-ray drives. I think too many people are not realizing the costs involved. Licensing 3 codecs (MPEG2, VC1 and AVC) AACS license and BD+ costs as well. DRM is not free folks.
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post #71 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Wait a minute. Why would adding Blu-ray appease the studios? They're in the business of selling content whether it be on optical disc or electronic. I don't really see where the "appeasement" comes through. Digital bits requires a microfraction of the space that you need for a tangible product like Blu-ray. Studios most likely want to reduce their logistics costs and resell content over and over. The studios aren't trying to protect their physical sales they're trying to augment them with profitable IP ventures. They certainly don't want piracry but if they can license content and forgo the immense costs of pressing discs they will do so.

Yes iTunes plays your CDs but you didn't have to buy a CD player bundled with your iPod. It worked with existing CD hardware in most cases. There's no need to bundle an expensive optical drive for a product that is aimed at leveraging online content.

It's not going to happen. Just like the Mac Pros don't have Blu-ray drives. I think too many people are not realizing the costs involved. Licensing 3 codecs (MPEG2, VC1 and AVC) AACS license and BD+ costs as well. DRM is not free folks.

If they refuse to let me play content I've already purchased without having to find some way to rip into iTunes then I've got absolutely no interest in this thing. If it's all or nothing then in this case I'll choose nothing. At a minimum I want it to have a drive to play DVDs. Barring that, an elegant add-on that stacks cleanly would do.

I'd really like to see a melding of the mini and the aTV. That would really be something special.
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post #72 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Wait a minute. Why would adding Blu-ray appease the studios? They're in the business of selling content whether it be on optical disc or electronic. I don't really see where the "appeasement" comes through. Digital bits requires a microfraction of the space that you need for a tangible product like Blu-ray. Studios most likely want to reduce their logistics costs and resell content over and over. The studios aren't trying to protect their physical sales they're trying to augment them with profitable IP ventures. They certainly don't want piracry but if they can license content and forgo the immense costs of pressing discs they will do so.

Yes iTunes plays your CDs but you didn't have to buy a CD player bundled with your iPod. It worked with existing CD hardware in most cases. There's no need to bundle an expensive optical drive for a product that is aimed at leveraging online content.

It's not going to happen. Just like the Mac Pros don't have Blu-ray drives. I think too many people are not realizing the costs involved. Licensing 3 codecs (MPEG2, VC1 and AVC) AACS license and BD+ costs as well. DRM is not free folks.

Unfortunately I think Murch is right. I don't see blu ray on the new ATV nor a DVR feature.

Without one or the other I don't see any new compelling features from a consumers point of view.

The ATV is a nice idea but ahead of its time. When all our media is purchased over the internet, it'll be a must have. But we're not there yet.
post #73 of 155
Well, this doesn't seem too Apple-esque, but maybe that external Blu-ray drive I'm envisioning for the so-called ultra-portable Mac will also connect to the Apple TV via USB as a player.

Anyhow, the 3 main things Apple needs to do with the Apple TV:
  1. beef up the HD playback specs (better hardware probably)
  2. software that works standalone over the Internet (online rentals, purchase content through iTunes Store, get podcasts automatically, etc. (without a Mac)
  3. ability to directly use an external drive over USB and also network storage

Then get HD rentals and purchases going in the iTunes Store.

Just getting the Apple TV both hardware and software-wise as a better standalone solution would vastly increase its value (and not cost much to implement). The software improvements could likely even be an update to the existing model. These other ideas like TV tuners, DVR, optical drives, etc. are gravy in comparison but would increase cost considerably.
post #74 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

You don't have a mother-inlaw, mother, wife operating your TV do you... Switch boxes and such have never had the WAF seal of usability...

WAF being Wife approval factor

There are auto switches. With those, you shouldn't have to touch the switch settings, just turn on and off the source devices. They're a bit more expensive, but not prohibitively so.
post #75 of 155
No optical drive on the ATV. Most folks aren't going to buy it because it has DVD. Most people already have a DVD player. BR is too expensive too include.

I say they make a model with cable card/tv tuner.

Why?

Well Cable companies have to support cable card and set top boxes are going retail (finally) in order to give consumers choice. Some of this is government mandated.

Including this functionality would give folks another big reason to pick up an ATV aka to replace their set top box. Cable co charges you what? $5 or $10 a TV to rent them? Cable cards are around $2 or $3 to rent.

What does this make the ATV? A Trojan horse. This new functionality gets it into the living room and meanwhile consumers discover iTunes movie rentals and all of the ATV's other capabilities.

Note also that CAble Card doesn't do 2-way communciations. What does this mean? You can't use your CAble companies on-demand features with the ATV. This is where iTunes comes in.

Comcast, in my area, has some pretty tiny set top boxes. Smaller than an ATV. I would imagine ATV wouldn't have to grow too much in order to include a TV tuner and cable card.

Plus I would guess that including this cable set top box functionality would let you instantly access ATV while watching TV without switching inputs. Perhaps this gives you various overlay features as well.

This thinking wouldn't be terribly unusual for Apple. Macs can run Windows now afterall.
post #76 of 155
Quote:
If it includes a Blu Ray player then I might add one to my collection of Apple hardware. At a very minimum, it *needs* to be able to play DVDs. I want to replace a piece of hardware, not another one. A blu-ray player would be tempting. A DVR (which WONT happen) would make these things sell like hotcakes.

You guys miss the entire purpose of ATV. Its not a DVD player, its not a DVR, its purpose is to augment and even replace these devices.

There is little reason for Apple to compete in the DVR market. Cable has nearly all but dominated DVR. Tivo will eventually move from hardware to mostly supplying software to cable companies.

I do agree that Apple limits ATV potential and sales by not allowing 3rd party ad ons.

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AGREE! DVD is dead ... HD-DVD is dead ... gotta be blu-ray!

Blu-ray has to compete with SD-DVD, digital downloads, DVR, digital streaming, Video on Demand, Pay Per View. DVD didn't really have to compete with any of these distribution mediums. Its highly unlikely Blu-ray will see the success of DVD. The only obstacle holding downloading/streaming at bay and even giving Blu-ray a fighting chance of success is bandwidth.

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Consumers are pretty dumb, they just want to buy a TV and turn it on, not muck about with extra external boxes and new-fangled connectors.

Most everyone I can think of has at least two external boxes under their television, cable box-DVD player. Many people have three or more.

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If they come out with a new piece of hardware thats gonna totally suck and will piss a lot of people off...I for one

Of course they are going to update the hardware. More than likely they will offer older ATV any software improvements.
post #77 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

You guys miss the entire purpose of ATV. Its not a DVD player, its not a DVR, its purpose is to augment and even replace these devices.

There is little reason for Apple to compete in the DVR market. Cable has nearly all but dominated DVR. Tivo will eventually move from hardware to mostly supplying software to cable companies.

I do agree that Apple limits ATV potential and sales by not allowing 3rd party ad ons.



Blu-ray has to compete with SD-DVD, digital downloads, DVR, digital streaming, Video on Demand, Pay Per View. DVD didn't really have to compete with any of these distribution mediums. Its highly unlikely Blu-ray will see the success of DVD. The only obstacle holding downloading/streaming at bay and even giving Blu-ray a fighting chance of success is bandwidth.



Most everyone I can think of has at least two external boxes under their television, cable box-DVD player. Many people have three or more.



Of course they are going to update the hardware. More than likely they will offer older ATV any software improvements.

A DVD drive is a simple cheap addition to the device that lets me get rid of a larger, less functional device. I do "get it". "It" just doesn't appeal to me without that functionality. I'm sure Steve would like me to simplify my collection of electronic devices and that simple addition would go a long way toward helping achieve that.

I've accumulated a good sized library of ccontent and I don't even want to consider the time and effort of ripping it all. The device you're suggesting asks too much of me and delivers too little.

Why do you assume that because people already have devices littered about their TV that they actually *want* to add to that clutter?
Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face? - Jack D. Ripper
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Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face? - Jack D. Ripper
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post #78 of 155
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Originally Posted by trip1ex View Post

No optical drive on the ATV. Most folks aren't going to buy it because it has DVD. Most people already have a DVD player.

Then why are there still so many mfrs selling so many DVD players? People still buy DVD players, whether to add a second (or third, etc) one, to replace an old one, or to finally catch up with the times. If ATV was also a DVD player, even people who aren't interested in iTunes video would still have it as a purchasing option.

A tuner, PVR, and a recordable optical drive are all needed for the TV to be viable. People who don't want these features, don't want the product to survive, because without them, it won't.
post #79 of 155
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A DVD drive is a simple cheap addition to the device that lets me get rid of a larger, less functional device. I do "get it". "It" just doesn't appeal to me without that functionality.

Doesn't sound like you get it to me. Apple's intention for ATV is to use digital downloads as a replacement for DVD as a delivery medium.

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I've accumulated a good sized library of ccontent and I don't even want to consider the time and effort of ripping it all. The device you're suggesting asks too much of me and delivers too little.

Sounds as if you need to stick with the DVD player.

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A tuner, PVR, and a recordable optical drive are all needed for the TV to be viable. People who don't want these features, don't want the product to survive, because without them, it won't.

I think you are going a bit over board. Currently no one box does all of these things. The cable box does not have a DVD player. Most DVD players don't have a recordable optical drive, tuner or DVR recorder, or able to download digital content at all. Tivo doesn't have a DVD player. The video game consoles don't have a recordable optical drive, tuner, or DVR recorder. I'm not sure why you think ATV has to perform all of these functions to succeed.

What the ATV needs to succeed is easy access to a wide variety of content with acceptable quality at a competitive price. Which to me says Netflix.
post #80 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Currently no one box does all of these things.

Which is precisely why TV should. Nobody wants a stack of devices connected to their TV. Give me one box that replaces all of them, with a simple Mac-like on screen interface, and I'll buy 3 of them. Leave even one of those features out, and I'll make do with what I have.

Cable boxes already come with PVRs in them, and you can order movies with them. Only thing missing is an optical player/recorder (DVD or Blu-Ray) built-in. First box to market with that will own the home video market the way iPods own the music player market now.
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