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Report claims "major" Apple TV update in the pipeline - Page 3

post #81 of 155
1/12/08 at 4:22am
Quote:
Wait a minute. Why would adding Blu-ray appease the studios?

HD content is NOT going to be downloadable in the near future due its to excessive need for bandwidth. That in my opinion means there will be a market for an affordable Blu Ray player for quite some time. I think that studios might have recognized that they are near a tipping point with digital downloads and they could get smacked down like music sales on CDs if they dont get with the program. That said HD content is still going to be exclusively physical media for a couple of years more most likely.

Including a Blu ray in ATV would be the best of both worlds for the studios. They get a majority of the profits from rentals of digital download of nonHD old media (DVD), and they greatly expand the market for HD. Could this be why the studios have recently dumped HDDVDs enmasse?

The problem with this idea that I see is the cost factor for the ATV. It has to stay in the $300-400 range for Apple to sell any and it would have to also support full 1080p. As an owner of the current one I would be a little annoyed, but I would have to think a $400 ATV with Blu-ray would sell pretty well. I know the profit margins on the current ATVs are already below Apple standards (~30%) so inclusion of major new hardware and codecs while maintaining the same price could turn them into a loss leader, which isnt the strategy Apple has pursues with iTunes sales to date.

In the end I am just confused and wanting it to be Tuesday already.
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post #82 of 155
1/12/08 at 4:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by othello View Post

i have "heard'" from someone i know that apple will be bringing elgato on stage. they are opening up the apple tv usb port for elgato usb tuners. o apple don't get bogged down with that market and let elgato deal with it.

not sure if this is for current apple tv's with a software upgrade or a new model.

That's a great solution. I have an Elgato Hybrid USB connected to my iMac G5 and it does everything:
records cable TV vis direct cable connection into the end of the USB stick connection to your Mac
the software allows for two advanced programmed recording from or away from you computer (web based)
allows for conversion of downloaded programs to Apple TV, Toast, iPod

This is THE solution that we've been looking for!

Talk amongst yourselves.
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post #83 of 155
1/12/08 at 6:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Doesn't sound like you get it to me. Apple's intention for ATV is to use digital downloads as a replacement for DVD as a delivery medium.

Exactly - which is why I'm predicting that the only major change for AppleTV is upgrading its specs to HD.

Sure, I'd love a box that has a Blu-Ray drive, digital tuner, and DVR capability, but I just don't see it happening - it is far too different than Apple's current business model.
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post #84 of 155
1/12/08 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Exactly - which is why I'm predicting that the only major change for AppleTV is upgrading its specs to HD.

That may be true but two questions:

1. Where's the HD content for download?
2. Who's got enough bandwidth to download HD content?

Those are the obstacles that ATV has yet to overcome. An integrated blu ray player would be a way for the ATV to again entry into homes until the content and bandwidth 'catch up' to the market but its probably cost prohibitive to do so.

As i said earlier, I think the device is ahead of its time.
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post #85 of 155
1/12/08 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post


Apple is not going to get into selling TV displays.

All they have to do is add a tuner to a 30" Cinema display and there's your ATV. Better yet, make a 30" iMac pro media server edition, ie ethernet, bluray, airport etc add a iPhone remote interface app, TV guides already D/L, and away you go. Worlds best media centre, it will only be $4000
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post #86 of 155
1/12/08 at 8:05am
They should rename it the iTunes TV to help people understand what it is. "Apple TV" is a big mystery and people are too busy these days to find out what it does.
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post #87 of 155
1/12/08 at 8:20am
There are 2 things interesting about this product.

That it was expensive but fell short of being truly useful, and just added to the jumble of multimedia devices owned by most people.

That some people, including Apple executives, ignored this.

Apple missed a great opportunity to sneak a Mac computer into peoples' lounge rooms in the guise of a media centre, that then made having a PC redundant.
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post #88 of 155
1/12/08 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

That may be true but two questions:

1. Where's the HD content for download?
2. Who's got enough bandwidth to download HD content?

Those are the obstacles that ATV has yet to overcome. An integrated blu ray player would be a way for the ATV to again entry into homes until the content and bandwidth 'catch up' to the market but its probably cost prohibitive to do so.

As i said earlier, I think the device is ahead of its time.

1. Chicken and egg. If Apple TV goes to HD, it would not be hard for iTunes store to make the content available in HD.
2. I have plenty of bandwidth to download HD - just not in real time. I buy my movies this morning and they're downloaded and ready to go by tonight. Not ideal, but workable.

Blu-Ray goes against the entire purpose of the Apple TV. Apple's product is for online movie purchase. If they put an optical disk on it, you don't need to purchase a download. Besides, most people already have a DVD connected to their TV. Why one more optical device? If you're going to use it solely to play Blu-Ray disks, it has no advantage over a standalone player. Furthermore, adding Blu-Ray makes the unit WAY more expensive - which makes it less practical for everyone.
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post #89 of 155
1/12/08 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancho View Post

...I'd really like to see a melding of the mini and the aTV...

I also think that would be ideal.
I'll be buying SOMETHING in the next couple of weeks. If the aTV doesn't include an optical drive (I'd settle for SD) AND better video format support, then I'm going to go with a MacMini (hopefully with HDMI output, but I'll use the DVI/VGA out if that's all I can get.)
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post #90 of 155
1/12/08 at 9:21am
If it could record TV I'd buy one. Oh well.
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post #91 of 155
1/12/08 at 9:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Blu-Ray goes against the entire purpose of the Apple TV. Apple's product is for online movie purchase. If they put an optical disk on it, you don't need to purchase a download. Besides, most people already have a DVD connected to their TV. Why one more optical device? If you're going to use it solely to play Blu-Ray disks, it has no advantage over a standalone player. Furthermore, adding Blu-Ray makes the unit WAY more expensive - which makes it less practical for everyone.

You seem to be missing what everyone is saying. Since you realize most people already have a DVD player (I'd say probably 100% who'd consider an AppleTV), then buying an AppleTV just adds yet another box into the mix. Another box hardly simplifies the process.

Fine, Apple wants the future to be for me download stuff, but in the process it shouldn't obsolete my current media collection. Adding DVD functionality to the AppleTV at a minimum would cost Apple mere dollars and would allow everyone to continue to use their current DVD library. Sure, some small fraction on these sites are willing to rip their entire DVD collection, invest in the storage that requires, and live with the current loss of discrete surround and features (like even simple features like subtitles). If nothing else, that is one of the selling points of Blu-Ray that you can still use your DVD collection.

Again, I think the best thing for Apple to do is let it do all the things people want it to do. Why can't Apple offer different models? The basic with no optical drive, one with just DVD, and a premium model with Blu-Ray support? Maybe make DVR completely external that is bought separately. Or use a build-to-order system where DVR would be an add-on feature.

The arguments about why Apple won't support DVR are confusing. Some people argue that it eats into iTunes Store profit. Then people state Apple makes little to no more on iTunes purchases. Or it goes against Apple's business model. Isn't Apple primarily in the hardware business?

One of the biggest issues I have with digital downloads is that the iTunes or Amazon Unbox purchases aren't just competing platforms, they are competing formats as well. These formats also, unfortunately, lock the purchaser into one platform as well. Until the studios get it together and create one FORMAT to launch digital downloads, the market will continue to be an utter mess.

If AppleTV remains a digital download/streaming box only, I don't it will ever have mass appeal. I would personally never touch it in this version. It seems like there are many people here who agree. Apple is free to keep its overly locked down device.
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post #92 of 155
1/12/08 at 11:28am
Hey, bsenka get's it, and Caliminius and several others as well. If I'm the crazy one then I'm in good company.

While I don't really care much for the PVR, adding the ability to replace extra devices helps the aTV act as a trojan to actually *Get* a device that introduces digital downloads into the home. If they don't do it, someone will. Who knows, perhaps Sony will add features to the PS3 to allow this to happen

"Sounds as if you need to stick with the DVD player."

Oh, of course, because since I've bought all my past content on optical media, all my future purchases will be as well. DVD players are cheap now, like dirt cheap. What is your problem with something as simple as a DVD drive added to aTV? It would seem natural if the mini and aTV meld into a single cohesive device.

"Currently no one box does all these things."

That's a wondersful reason *not* to do it?

"Which to me says Netflix".
Sorry, digital downloads aside, Netflix offers a lot more than "acceptable quality". They offer DVD and HD for whatever my viewing pleasure dictates.

There *has* to be a device that caters to the needs of people during this transition to *eventual* pervasive VOD. The current infrastructure does not support this fantasy in the near term.
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post #93 of 155
1/12/08 at 11:47am
Quote:
Cable boxes already come with PVRs in them, and you can order movies with them. Only thing missing is an optical player/recorder (DVD or Blu-Ray) built-in. First box to market with that will own the home video market the way iPods own the music player market now.

You think its a coincidence that there are several different devices? That no one but you has thought of bringing all of these functions together? There are a couple of problems that are the reason why there are no devices that do all of this.

For one most or all of these functions contradict each others business models. Cable and Tivo don't want you deal with DVD. They want you to rent their monthly DVR, VOD, or PPV services. Netflix, Hollywood Video, and Blockbuster don't want you to rent monthly service of DVR, VOD, or PPV services. They want you to rent monthly service of DVD's. Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy, Circuit City would rather you buy DVD than rent monthly service of DVR, VOD, PPV, or DVD rental.

Sony and Panasonic both created DVD optical recorders with hard drives for DVR recording. The boxes were fairly expensive and did not sell very well. Partially because of price and partially because they did not work as well as the box dedicated to that particular service. Which brings me to the second problem is as you add more and more services to the same box. Some part of the functionality will suffer.

Funny you use the iPod as an example. The purpose of the iPod is to have access to digital content without the direct use of optical media. ATV is exactly the same.
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post #94 of 155
1/12/08 at 12:05pm
Quote:
1. Where's the HD content for download?
2. Who's got enough bandwidth to download HD content?

I have plenty of bandwidth to download HD - just not in real time. I buy my movies this morning and they're downloaded and ready to go by tonight. Not ideal, but workable.

While I agree Apple needs to figure out some way to offer higher quality content. What ever resolution they use needs to be near instantaneous. The whole advantage of digital downloading is that you can watch whatever you want right now. You don't have to wait for a DVD in the mail. You don't have to drive to a video store. You get what you want with little effort.

Quote:
Fine, Apple wants the future to be for me download stuff, but in the process it shouldn't obsolete my current media collection.

This is not unprecedented. The introduction of DVD completely obsoleted every collectors VHS and Laser Disc collection. You literally had no choice but to buy all of those movies again. In the case of ATV you don't even have to buy the movies again you have the option of converting them to digital files.

Quote:
The arguments about why Apple won't support DVR are confusing.

Because its not the purpose nor the focus of the ATV.

Quote:
If AppleTV remains a digital download/streaming box only, I don't it will ever have mass appeal. I would personally never touch it in this version. It seems like there are many people here who agree. Apple is free to keep its overly locked down device.

Sorry but optical media is the past. The idea of ATV is to move on into the future.

I agree as long as Apple keeps it tied exclusively to iTunes ATV's appeal will be limited. The iPod is not limited only to iTunes which is one of the reasons why it has done so well. Apple should allow ATV to be open to other services such as Netflix, Amazon, and whoever else would like to use it. This is all a new and untested market, we will have to see how it goes.
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post #95 of 155
1/12/08 at 12:10pm
Quote:
"Currently no one box does all these things."

That's a wondersful reason *not* to do it?

There are reasons no one does it.

Quote:
"Which to me says Netflix".
Sorry, digital downloads aside, Netflix offers a lot more than "acceptable quality". They offer DVD and HD for whatever my viewing pleasure dictates.

I am talking about Netflix digital downloads.

Quote:
There *has* to be a device that caters to the needs of people during this transition to *eventual* pervasive VOD. The current infrastructure does not support this fantasy in the near term.

When DVD was first introduced their was no soft transition. New DVD players were expensive when VHS players were dirt cheap. DVD media also cost more than its VHS counter part and you had no choice but to repurchase your entire collection.
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post #96 of 155
1/12/08 at 1:25pm
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Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

There are reasons no one does it.



I am talking about Netflix digital downloads.



When DVD was first introduced their was no soft transition. New DVD players were expensive when VHS players were dirt cheap. DVD media also cost more than its VHS counter part and you had no choice but to repurchase your entire collection.

Well, I guess we can agree to disagree. You can enjoy your VOD world and I'll continue as is. Apple will make a sale to you in this case, but definitely not me.
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post #97 of 155
1/12/08 at 1:25pm
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Originally Posted by Bancho View Post

So that I can go downstairs to put a DVD in the 'puter then trudge back upstairs to watch it?

Bingo!
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post #98 of 155
1/12/08 at 1:29pm
well now, that's certainly something I'd like Steve to demo at the keynote...
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post #99 of 155
1/12/08 at 1:29pm
To those who are saying it would be too expensive to put Blu-Ray into the ATV, I was thinking it over, and doesnt the Playstation 3 cost the same as the ATV and have a Blu-ray already built into it? I know for Apple to do this would mean the 20% profit margin in the ATV (Low by Apple standards) would probably go to 0%, but its at least possible.

I wonder if Apple will make any money on the Rentals? They arent making much if any on iTunes video content in general at the moment.
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post #100 of 155
1/12/08 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markb View Post

To those who are saying it would be too expensive to put Blu-Ray into the ATV, I was thinking it over, and doesnt the Playstation 3 cost the same as the ATV and have a Blu-ray already built into it? I know for Apple to do this would mean the 20% profit margin in the ATV (Low by Apple standards) would probably go to 0%, but its at least possible.

I wonder if Apple will make any money on the Rentals? They arent making much if any on iTunes video content in general at the moment.

Sony loses hundreds of dollars on the PS3. They make it up in software sales. Will Apple do the same thing? Don't count on it.

I am interested to see in 2008 how the AppleTV will compete against the PS3? Isn't Sony going to introduce DVR functionality into the PS3?

Dave
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post #101 of 155
1/12/08 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Funny you use the iPod as an example. The purpose of the iPod is to have access to digital content without the direct use of optical media. ATV is exactly the same.

That may be true but the success of the iPod was because people could rip their existing cds into iTunes and not repurchase their content. IIRC, something like 70% of the content on cds is ripped material not digital downloads. Sure that percentage will change over time and eventually digital downloaded content will exceed that of ripped from optical. But without the ability to rip cds in iTunes, iPods would be a niche product at best.

Like the ATV.
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post #102 of 155
1/12/08 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post

Sony loses hundreds of dollars on the PS3. They make it up in software sales. Will Apple do the same thing? Don't count on it.

I am interested to see in 2008 how the AppleTV will compete against the PS3? Isn't Sony going to introduce DVR functionality into the PS3?

Dave

I'm thinking that if Steve leaves out an optical drive of any sort, my PS3 can be used to get a fair amount of that functionality.

Again, I'm not demanding a BR drive, I just want a way to consume my discs in this thing without having to come up with an array of external drives to hold ll that content (in a less persistent way than the optical media currently does).
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post #103 of 155
1/12/08 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Fine, Apple wants the future to be for me download stuff, but in the process it shouldn't obsolete my current media collection.

It doesn't. You can continue to use your current media collection just as you always have.
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post #104 of 155
1/12/08 at 3:26pm
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Originally Posted by pdcryan View Post

Here's a thought that would get me to buy one... include an HDMI input on the AppleTV and push your cable boxes (or TiVo or whatever)'s output through the AppleTV. While I understand HDMI has some copy restrictions that may prevent this type of passthrough or relay, I would hope that Apple has enough industry connections to make it work.

With this kind of setup - one would not need to bother switching TV inputs when they want to use the Apple TV... at the press of a button AppleTV would "take over" the screen (much like FrontRow does on the desktop)... or put the Cablebox's output in some kind of PIP window. Another option would have the Cablebox's output darkened a bit - with a dashboard style layer of widgets overlayed. Another choice would allow for a Safari layer to take over the screen... maybe again putting the Cablebox's output into a PIP window or a split screen. An option to scale the CableBox's feed to say, 80 to 90% of the screen with a widget boarder of custom icons alerting you to weather changes... new emails... etc. and a family bulletin board "home screen" (showing the calendar, weather, to-dos, etc.) would be killer as well.

Include instructions for programming the extra buttons on the CableCo's remote to control the AppleTV... and I think you've got a winning solution (for me).

Just plug your Apple TV into a HDMI switching surround receiver and the receiver controls all the inputs,,, I have a Yamaha receiver that does it just fine.

Its no different then with one of my Mac's I have connected to a 50 inch plasma,,, audio runs into a Yamaha receiver and I am connected to the plasma with DVI.
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post #105 of 155
1/12/08 at 4:44pm
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Originally Posted by markb View Post

To those who are saying it would be too expensive to put Blu-Ray into the ATV, I was thinking it over, and doesnt the Playstation 3 cost the same as the ATV and have a Blu-ray already built into it? I know for Apple to do this would mean the 20% profit margin in the ATV (Low by Apple standards) would probably go to 0%, but its at least possible.

Margin would be negative - which would be a silly business model for Apple. There's no way movie downloads would pay for losses on the hardware.

Let's do some math:

AppleTV is $299. Apple averages around 30% gross margin across product lines - or $90. The Blu-Ray drive is undoubtedly at least $150 apiece (probably very low since it would also involve other infrastructure such as a large power supply, bigger case, etc) - so Apple would LOSE $60 per unit. Let's say the average video purchase is $10. Apple makes about 60% on the audio, so for simplicity we'll say they make $6 on each video. The average person would have to buy 10 videos before Apple even breaks even on the player (assuming zero cost for maintaining the iTunes infrastructure. They'd have to buy 25 videos to cover the difference in cost for adding Blu-Ray.

Now, logically:
1. Having Blu-Ray in there doesn't help Apple to sell digital downloads, so why would they add Blu-Ray as a loss leader to recover money on digital downloads?
2. In fact, Blu-Ray would probably REDUCE the number of digital downloads they could sell - so they'd be selling the device at a loss in order to sell less of one of the products they're trying to sell.

I could make a case for adding Blu-Ray as an optional item, but only at a price high enough to justify the cost. I doubt that Apple would do that, though, because it goes against the 'Internet is everything' mentality they're trying to build.

Playstation is a terrible example. First, they make more than enough money on games to justify seling the player at a loss. Second, they've gotten themselves into a very competitive situation where consumers are buying on price (except for some Wii purchasers) so the competitive situation forces the prices down. Finally, Playstation needs an optical drive, anyway. Even more importantly, it's not hard to imagine future games which are too large to fit on a standard DVD (we may already be there), so Blu-Ray is actually an advantage for Playstation, rather than hurting it.
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post #106 of 155
1/12/08 at 5:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

You seem to be missing what everyone is saying. Since you realize most people already have a DVD player (I'd say probably 100% who'd consider an AppleTV), then buying an AppleTV just adds yet another box into the mix. Another box hardly simplifies the process.

Fine, Apple wants the future to be for me download stuff, but in the process it shouldn't obsolete my current media collection. Adding DVD functionality to the AppleTV at a minimum would cost Apple mere dollars and would allow everyone to continue to use their current DVD library. Sure, some small fraction on these sites are willing to rip their entire DVD collection, invest in the storage that requires, and live with the current loss of discrete surround and features (like even simple features like subtitles). If nothing else, that is one of the selling points of Blu-Ray that you can still use your DVD collection.

Again, I think the best thing for Apple to do is let it do all the things people want it to do. Why can't Apple offer different models? The basic with no optical drive, one with just DVD, and a premium model with Blu-Ray support? Maybe make DVR completely external that is bought separately. Or use a build-to-order system where DVR would be an add-on feature.

The arguments about why Apple won't support DVR are confusing. Some people argue that it eats into iTunes Store profit. Then people state Apple makes little to no more on iTunes purchases. Or it goes against Apple's business model. Isn't Apple primarily in the hardware business?

One of the biggest issues I have with digital downloads is that the iTunes or Amazon Unbox purchases aren't just competing platforms, they are competing formats as well. These formats also, unfortunately, lock the purchaser into one platform as well. Until the studios get it together and create one FORMAT to launch digital downloads, the market will continue to be an utter mess.

If AppleTV remains a digital download/streaming box only, I don't it will ever have mass appeal. I would personally never touch it in this version. It seems like there are many people here who agree. Apple is free to keep its overly locked down device.


No he's not missing the point at all but rather just being realistic.

1. The "I don't want to hook up another device is a strawman argument. My HD DVD player hooks up FINE with one HDMI cable. Lemme see...ahhhh check! The Apple TV has a HDMI connecter.

2. If the future is indeed Blu. People have their DVD playback right there with DVD upscaling. No need for the Apple TV to become redundant.

3. A DVR is an anethma to the promotion of iTunes as a media store. When you use a DVR typically you are paying for a cable or satellite package. Apple's goal is to wean you from those packages and buy in special bundles or a la carte.

4. I totally agree with you on the many standards of DRM. You'd think after iTunes vs "The World" they'd have gotten the message. We need interoperable DRM.

People wonder why the iPod has been able to keep its success and my thought on this is because it's a one two punch with iTunes and iPods offering such a harmonious connection. The Apple TV will go as far as iTunes can take it. Opening up too much to DVD and cable providers does nothing but dilute the value.
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post #107 of 155
1/12/08 at 6:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

No he's not missing the point at all but rather just being realistic.

1. The "I don't want to hook up another device is a strawman argument. My HD DVD player hooks up FINE with one HDMI cable. Lemme see...ahhhh check! The Apple TV has a HDMI connecter.

It's yet another device that adds yet another level of complexity to home theater - and that device has yet to embody more than a tiny fraction of its true potential, because there is far too little variety of media available for it without resorting to inconvenient, questionable or illegal sources. In short, in its current incarnation, ATV isn't doing nearly enough to justify a place in the typical home theater, it's a good device but it is largely limited by its media store. The rumors make it sound like that might change soon, but that's an entire year after its initial sale.

Quote:
3. A DVR is an anethma to the promotion of iTunes as a media store. When you use a DVR typically you are paying for a cable or satellite package. Apple's goal is to wean you from those packages and buy in special bundles or a la carte.

The Apple TV will go as far as iTunes can take it. Opening up too much to DVD and cable providers does nothing but dilute the value.

I don't think it's really about pushing the media store. While the media store makes some money, Apple's real money is in the hardware. I think it is just that the path they chose is part a path of least resistance and another, to legitimize their product. There's not much money in DVD players, last I heard, the $30 DVD players don't pay their license fees, but Apple can't escape those fees, a DVD player would increase the price by $100, and I doubt they can touch the Oppos in quality. Cable support is a hornet's nest of compatibility problems, too many set top box designs to try to control, or if you do CableCard, well, that's not living up to its promise either.
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post #108 of 155
1/12/08 at 7:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

People wonder why the iPod has been able to keep its success and my thought on this is because it's a one two punch with iTunes and iPods offering such a harmonious connection. The Apple TV will go as far as iTunes can take it.

I respectfully disagree.

As I said in an earlier post, the ability to rip one's existing content through iTunes played a large part in its success. Otherwise it would have been a niche product. People don't want to repurchase their content.

Whether supporters of ATV want to admit it or not, some sort of optical support is necessary until digital downloading of content is the primary means of obtaining content. We're not there yet and I'm guessing optical media will be around for another 10 years.
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post #109 of 155
1/12/08 at 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I respectfully disagree.

As I said in an earlier post, the ability to rip one's existing content through iTunes played a large part in its success. Otherwise it would have been a niche product. People don't want to repurchase their content.

Whether supporters of ATV want to admit it or not, some sort of optical support is necessary until digital downloading of content is the primary means of obtaining content. We're not there yet and I'm guessing optical media will be around for another 10 years.

There's just one minor difference.

The iPod it a PORTABLE media player. You can't easily carry all your CDs with you.

AppleTV is meant to be hooked to the TV in your living room - right next to your DVD player and DVD collection. There's absolutely nothing to be gained by ripping your DVD collection to a device connected to your TV-that is unless it's really your friend's DVD collection you want to copy. In that case, of course, Apple has no desire to aid criminals.
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post #110 of 155
1/12/08 at 9:07pm
Check out this NetGear device:
http://www.netgear.com/Products/Powe...ers/XE102.aspx

Imagine this: you plug your AirPort Base Station in to the wall, and not only does it get power from there, it creates a network there also.

Now any device such as Apple TV has instant network access just by plugging it in. I think this would make the Apple TV so much better than wireless. It is much faster, fast enough for HD. And I agree with the others who said it should have a DVD player. It can drop the DVD player in a later revision, once downloads are a success.
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post #111 of 155
1/12/08 at 11:36pm
I have an HTPC now that let's me play every format under the sun. I have dual HD tuners as well. I never use the DVD player as I have all videos stored on the hard drive. And I have easy access to a variety of IPTV. If an apple tv can do all that I may switch. Maybe.
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post #112 of 155
1/13/08 at 12:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer75 View Post

I have an HTPC now that let's me play every format under the sun. I have dual HD tuners as well. I never use the DVD player as I have all videos stored on the hard drive. And I have easy access to a variety of IPTV. If an apple tv can do all that I may switch. Maybe.

The ATV can be made to do all these things and I am sure that Apple have seen what people are actually using the ATV for once they buy it they are going to have to evolve the ATV more in this direction.

I have an ATV connected via its USB port to a 1tb hard drive where i store all my ripped DVD's as DivX. It works perfectly as a media server. I can browse to my AppleTV via the finder on my MBP and copy files directly on to my Hard Drive - It is sweet.

see - http://wiki.awkwardtv.org/wiki/Main_Page

What the ATV is really missing that I would like to see Apple address is an On/Off switch because at moment there is no way to turn it off without unplugging it.
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post #113 of 155
1/13/08 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

The ATV can be made to do all these things and I am sure that Apple have seen what people are actually using the ATV for once they buy it they are going to have to evolve the ATV more in this direction.

I have an ATV connected via its USB port to a 1tb hard drive where i store all my ripped DVD's as DivX. It works perfectly as a media server. I can browse to my AppleTV via the finder on my MBP and copy files directly on to my Hard Drive - It is sweet.

see - http://wiki.awkwardtv.org/wiki/Main_Page

What the ATV is really missing that I would like to see Apple address is an On/Off switch because at moment there is no way to turn it off without unplugging it.

Processing HD video takes alot of CPU or GPU power. I doubt the apple tv can do it. Even should I hack it and put in support for my files. I looked over the wiki and see no mention of playing files other than ripped DVD's. My files are mostly x264 in a MKV wrapper. I also need support for AC3 audio. And of course avi, divx, wmv, xvid, vc-1, etc.
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post #114 of 155
1/13/08 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

There's just one minor difference.

You're right. It is a MINOR difference.

The ATV doesn't allow users to utilize their existing collection of content. That's why its a niche product. If it allowed users to utilize existing content, it would have much broader appeal.

It's ahead of its time. By about 10 years.
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post #115 of 155
1/13/08 at 12:30pm
Quote:
I totally agree with you on the many standards of DRM. You'd think after iTunes vs "The World" they'd have gotten the message. We need interoperable DRM.

I agree. For the video downloading market to flourish. Everyone needs to use the same DRM. All of this technology would be adopted sooner if any download service could be used with any hardware. Fragmenting the hardware and services only keeps it all a niche market.

The flip side is that there would be no way to truly secure a widely used DRM. It would be quickly broken. Because so many services use the same DRM would be virtually impossible to patch all of the holes.

Quote:
In short, in its current incarnation, ATV isn't doing nearly enough to justify a place in the typical home theater, it's a good device but it is largely limited by its media store. The rumors make it sound like that might change soon, but that's an entire year after its initial sale.

I agree. Apple should open ATV to a wide variety of content and services. Perhaps they will in the near future, they may have delayed other partnerships until after securing studio deals for iTunes.

Quote:
The ATV doesn't allow users to utilize their existing collection of content. That's why its a niche product. If it allowed users to utilize existing content, it would have much broader appeal.

Your repeating this doesn't make it any more true The ATV and iPod perform the exact same function. In that neither directly uses optical disc. You can rip content from the disc to be used in both. True enough ripping music takes minutes or even seconds. Ripping a movie and its extras take a great deal more time. But the option still exists.

The legal status of ripping content is the same for both music and movies. The record labels argue its just as illegal as the movie studios do. As long as you are ripping for your own personal use and not distributing the material there is virtually no chance legal action will be taken against you.
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post #116 of 155
1/13/08 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Ripping a movie and its extras take a great deal more time.

I can't put a DVD in my computer and have iTunes "rip" it onto my hard-drive/library. The process needs to be THAT easy for the product to be accepted like the iPod.
But Apple can't do that without being sued, so the solution is to put an optical drive in the aTV.

In any case, we'll find out what they've planned in just a couple days
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #117 of 155
1/13/08 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

In that neither directly uses optical disc. You can rip content from the disc to be used in both. True enough ripping music takes minutes or even seconds. Ripping a movie and its extras take a great deal more time. But the option still exists.
.

You know this isn't true. CDs are directly ripped within iTunes.

No such option exists for ATV.
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post #118 of 155
1/13/08 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

You're right. It is a MINOR difference.

So the difference between a portable device that's meant to be carried with you all the time and one connected to your big screen TV is insignificant? Amazing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

The ATV doesn't allow users to utilize their existing collection of content. That's why its a niche product. If it allowed users to utilize existing content, it would have much broader appeal.

User can continue to use their existing content - on the DVD player that they already have connected to their TV. There's little (or no) benefit to ripping the videos to the Apple TV - unless you're just too lazy to get off the couch to change a disk.
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post #119 of 155
1/13/08 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

That may be true but two questions:

1. Where's the HD content for download?
2. Who's got enough bandwidth to download HD content?

Those are the obstacles that ATV has yet to overcome. An integrated blu ray player would be a way for the ATV to again entry into homes until the content and bandwidth 'catch up' to the market but its probably cost prohibitive to do so.

As i said earlier, I think the device is ahead of its time.

AppleTV is ahead of it's time in terms of market, but behind in terms of functionality. Take a gander at the competition and try to convince me that ATV is the best solution out there. Not a chance.

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post #120 of 155
1/13/08 at 2:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

If it could record TV I'd buy one. Oh well.

Not only that, it needs to be backwards compatible with non-HD televisions. Most people have not gone digital. Apple really screwed the pooch on their market research.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

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