Sources: Apple Newton-tablet not ripe for Macworld - Page 2

And you are a new clown

That is the question. Such a machine won't come until Silverthorne and frankly that would be a shame. On the other hand some of the best ARM platforms going aren't out yet either. So maybe the technology world isn't quite ready for Newton 2.

Note: I see as a minimal requirement of 1 GHz performance on a 32 bit platform to deliver the type of Newton experience I'm looking for. Basically a Newton with very flexible RF communications. Frankly I'm not concerned about object code compatibility with i86 but I suspect Apple is, thus the wait on Intel.

The other thing is the plans already in place. That is the SDK debut in February, this being planned well in advance could be indications that more is planned around that time then a simple SDK. A SDK could easily be a foot note at something like MWSF, instead the SDK arrival is planned to be in isolation. The question of course is why. {speculations}Maybe Intel and Apple will debut Silverthorne together{/speculation} Intel could really use the splash that Apple is so good at delivering.

Dave

I just don't understand the appeal of a full sized tablet.

Good point. I have my hopes on the 3G iPhone.

The lack of a Newton 2 at MWSF isn't a major problem - at least for the market. Right now Apple needs to be focused on enhancing the iPhone/touch ranges and a bump in memory will go a long way for me. The SDK is the key for additional products and apps that developers come up with over the next 6 to 12 months will do more to drive demand than simply announcing another product.

Let's face it - Apple's goal of selling 10 million iPhones by the end of 2008 is still the top priority and I think that they will continue to focus on that for now.

I agree that Apple is focused on surpassing its iPhone goal which means enticing more buyers.. I think we will see a new iPhone with 16GB NAND and possibly some other HW improvements. For example, 3.2MP camera, camera flash and slighter higher resolution display.

I don't think we'll hear about a 3G iPhone unless it's ready to ship after the FCC gives the thumbs up. I do a new iPhone OS version and an SDK will take up considerable keynote time. I have been reading complaints that MacWorld isn't focusing on Macs. This event for consumer products, which the iPhone and iPods clearly fall into. WHomever doesn't like it can write Cupertino and request something different like, the Apple Consumer Products Bonanza (ACPB).

I don't know exactly what a Newton II, or whatever, would be, and as no one else does either, the speculation we all have is very much up in the air.

I wonder what it would compete against. If it's the UMOC's, those sales are very low. I forget, but either 300,000 UMPC's were sols all last year, or last quarter. If last year, then there IS no market. If last quarter, then the market is there, but very small.

If this is wearable, then Apple could make a market, especially if it had WiFi, or WiMax.

If, somehow, Apple added phone service, then it could really take over.

Now, if Apple DID add phone service, but didn't call it an iPhone, I wnder if it could get around the contracts Apple has with their current cell partners.

Nah! That's just a dream.

I'm not so sure. Remember that Jobs said they talked about the iPhone so that we wouldn't hear about it first from the FCC. I'm not really certain that the FCC is allowed to conceal which products it's working on, going by that, even though, apparently, it's allowed to withhold some of the feature set upon request from the manufacturer.

If so, then we would hear about this phone possibly 3 months before approval anyway. I can't see Jobs allowing that to happen.

What I meant by "I don't think we'll hear about a 3G iPhone unless it's ready to ship after the FCC gives the thumbs up." is that 'if' Jobs does announce a 3G iPhone at MW'08 then the completed paperwork will be submitted that morning to the FCC and the Chinese factories will be just about ready to ship product. In other words, Apple cannot have it's customers wait 6 months between new iPhone models since they already have a product on the market whose sales would be severely hurt by the delay.

I do.

You're not alone. There's more exciting things Steve could announce. Like a slim notebook. Dammit, I want my slim notebook.

Me too. I am looking forward to getting rid of my FatBook in favour of a ThinBook.

Me neither. A thin light MacBook will serve the same purpose, IMO. It could have cell technology built in and function much like a big iPhone, if that's what people want. I can't really imagine a Mac without a keyboard.

That's the void the keyboard/optical drive docking station would fill, and the combination of the two make for a complete subnotebook solution.

Sitting around the house, watching tv, you can use the tablet for surfing the web, checking email & video iChats (live from the upstairs bathroom!). Out & about, you 'snap' on the keyboard section, and you not only have a subnotebook, but a convertible AND a slate tablet all in one

Sweet!

Maybe I'm ignorant but I just don't get it. Sounds complicated.

A thin, light (and cool!) notebook-laptop with keyboard is perfect for surfing around the house. How would a tablet be better? I'd think the best use of a tablet is in circumstances where you have to be standing up, and can't easily open up a notebook-style computer. In other situations, you want the keyboard horizontal at your fingertips with the screen vertical and facing you.

A dock-like device with a screen, much like an iMac, would be very useful for the iPhone and iPod touch to dock with. I don't see Apple making another portable device other than those, if it's not a notebook. Keep in mind that iPhones/iPods are only going to get more powerful and full-featured in the near future. Docking them with big screens makes sense.

A slim notebook is more exciting? That is Apple just playing catch up to the many thin slim notebooks in the PC world. A minor re-engineering exercize for Apple to copy Sony or Toshiba. Don't get me wrong, Apple should have a "slim" notebook. But we are comparing apple and oranges here. A tablet is not a notebook! They have different functions. Apple is developing an important and revolutionary new touch user interface for portable computers. And the iPhone has shown us that they are extremely popular! Touch interfaces work best on tablet form factors, not notebooks. The iPhone/iPod Touch do not have big enough screens to adequately browse the internet or watch the latest iTunes rental movie. Let the MacTouch happen and you will see the excitement happen!

When I got my first video iPod, I thought I would occasionally watch video on it. I tried it only once.

Unlike with a laptop, which has a screen on a hinge, you have to hold the iPod in a vertical position with one or both hands, constantly, in order to watch video. It gets uncomfortable after about five minutes. I suspect it would be the same (awkward) to do much surfing or watching video on a tablet Mac. I just can't see it, and I wouldn't buy one.

I think Apple's development money would be better spent on a mid-range tower Mac and new MacBook Pros, than on a tablet.

Ultra-light, ultra-sexy, ultra-thin, ultra-portable, with a new buttonless, easy-to-use revolutionary UI that can change for every app. If you want to do some tying you could either do it on your lap or pop-out the little rest on the back and type while the Mac touch rest at around 15 degrees on a desk or table. And because it's so light and slim you can take it anywhere with you. It's no iPod touch and you won't be using it one-handed walking around. Just like you don't with your notebook now.

While I don't see a need for full size tablets as being real heavy I do see a need for a line up of devices. Besides I don't see where mention of Newton 2 implies a full sized tablet.

At the smaller scale the need is really great. Here we are talking about a device 1.2 to 1.75 times the size of the TOUCH. The goal here is a multi platform device that can handle higher resolution video. This sort of device is especially needed if Apple really does move forward with movie rentals. The problem being simply the lack of resolution on the TOUCH or iPhone. Being multipurpose though this sort of device could cover for a lot of things, PDA, Cell, Internet Tablet, Storage device, hand held computer and whatever.

While I agree that the form factor becomes less and less compelling as size increases, at the smaller end of the scale there is almost an infinite demand for differently appointed devices. That is with what is available software wise now. Add in Movies and other services rumored and demand could explode.

Dave

The thing is, people aren't imagining a tablet as a replacement computer. Here is what I mean...

I bought a new iMac a year ago (last one before they went aluminum). I have realized lately though I would like a laptop because I would like to be able to write while I was out, or on my bed, or sitting on my couch. In other words, being more comfortable while I work. Yet, I still have a great computer and REALLY don't need a second one.

What I (and I bet a lot of people with desktops) need is something portable that is an extension of their current computer. Something small but powerful enough to run OSX, iWork and iLife. I bet Apple would include bluetooth in there and you could pair a keyboard with it (keeping it in the laptop bag and bringing it out when I need it would be easy). As an artist, if it was strong enough to run photoshop and had a pen in addition to multitouch (I get the image of drawing with the pen, then pinching to zoom in, then adding detail, then rotating the canvas in real time for a different angle). That one is a bit of a stretch I know but it would be something for the artists, but the multitouch would be for most people.

It would, in essence, be like a large PDA that you synched with your home computer. "Portability for desktop users"

Gosh, you should talk to Ireland, I hear you think alike. I have being saying that for months now. Target it at desktop users! Though my tag-line was, and kind of still is "Take some work with you."

Close. I expect to see the keyboard being a DOCKed version of the Wireless keyboard we so loved. And this Multi-Touch screen on the touchpad but twice the size!. This way one can undock the keyboard and use it next to the NanoBook while using this Multi-touch pad. So no need for the confounded mouse!. I just hate rodents, especially single botton beasties!.

I need a clamshell iPhone that is the form-factor of two current iPhones with a slight trim on the thickness. Both with edge-to-edge screen.
No speaker, no ear piece. twin headphone jacks. MultiDevice BT pairing.
Bluetooth A2DP support and Wireless keyboard support. Oh, put a 30 GB 1.8 inch drive on the lower unit and a couple of USB2 ports. 512MB RAM and 16GB flash. Bump the wifi to 802.11n. Still an advanced iPhone and people would gladly pay $800 for it. Come on, iPhone Deluxe anyone ???

Oh accessory to support the clamshell when used with the wireless keyboard. Make the support in aluminium that hinges and folds under the wireless keyboard for storage. Now this device will replace a work laptop anyday.

What can I say? Great minds think alike!

Ireland, if you've read my arguments with vinea about touch keyboards, and what I've been saying about using a touch monitor for the desktop, you'd see that I think it will come, and could be very effective.

But, the problem with that idea is that it would have to be much bigger than what you propose. 15" is the very minimum for any real desktop machine. Even that's much too small for many users. Standard monitor sizes for the desktop have now reached 22", and it looks that in another year or so, if the prices keep dropping the way they have, that 24" will be next.

Most people I know who have portables also have desktops with these larger screens.

My thoughts are that, from what I'm seeing, is that people are keeping their desktops, and buying a portable as well. They aren't getting a new desktop machine yet, but are likely to do so after a while.

How do you propose to service these people?

Or do you?

The idea (that I am talking about at least) is that you would use this with your current desktop. This is for people who don't want to buy a whole new computer but would still like portability. When you need the large screen, you use your desktop (though it would be awesome if it could be used like a Wacom Cinque too) but you can take the tablet and sit on the couch and work, perhaps like a remote desktop, perhaps independent of it. You take it out and work on it, then bring it back and synch it back with your computer, backing up the changes you made to documents and allowing you to work on them there.

This is an extension of your current computer, not a new one. Hence why it is like a Newton, though not one because it uses OSX. This isn't what the iMac dock was for, that would be for the MacBook Air (or whatever).

You don't need a tablet for that. And a Newton-like machine that I've proposed for a while, is a much smaller device than you or Ireland are proposing, with different uses, and ergonomics.

If you don't have a purpose for a machine like this that can't easily be served by a standard configuration, then the tablet serves no purpose.

If Apple does come out with the ultralight, it would serve the purpose you are talking about better than the tablet.

The only real purpose a tablet serves is to be used when standing, and holding it in the crook of an arm, while doing whatever needs to be done with the other hand, where typing on a keyboard with two hands isn't easily possible. Otherwise, a keyboarded machine is better.

The only other purpose would be to doodle on the screen to make certain notations on a document, or drawing. But, a keyboarded model could do that as well, if the screen had some touch abilities.

I don't see a big enough market for a device such as this. Possibly sometime in the future, if something new comes out that people MUST use, that requires a tablet. But there isn't any killer app or device yet that fits that need.

I think you're looking at this from the perspective of a traditional Apple pro user.

A larger ipod touch with bluetooth (enabling the use of a bluetooth keyboard and earphones, and sync with a computer), a 5-7 inch screen, and running a more advanced version of OSX, WOULD probably sell like hotcakes.

It would primarily target the ENTERTAINMENT market, but could also serve as a functional umpc, mid, pda etc. for business use.

The true revenue producers for Apple are in this segment: ala iphone, touch and ipods.

The new computing paradigm is quickly going to move toward mobility. All in one thin client, portable slates.

How awesome to be able to watch movies on a decent size screen, use web apps, listen to music, and sync/stream from a home system when necessary.
All for a reasonable price.

There is a huge market segment for this. Targeting mostly younger, web 2.0 type users.

I don't see a big enough market for this. Then again, I didn't see the market for the 1G iPod.

The n810 shows the potential. With an OS that doesn't require a Comp Sci degree running it, it would be widely popular. Add Apple's marketing machine and....

According to reports I read, at the recent CES show, the development was primarily focused on these type devices.

Exactly, I just think you think have the screen size wrong. I think it will be closer to 10 or 11 inches myself. I also think it will be a real Mac and not simply the iPod touch's bigger brother. Although it would technically be an extension of your desktop or your larger, heavier notebook - in that it would have to set-up, docked and synced with it - I also think it would be a Mac in its own right.

People who say they don't see a market for this surprise me, cause I can a HUGE market for it, as some others can. For a start, every teenager in the world would want one. I think people who have large desktops would be very intrigued by it too. And it not only would it be an extremely cool, useful product. It would also get Apple a lot of attention and win them a lot of mindshare - showing again what is different about Apple.

It would be the first for a tablet on a lot of fronts. It would be first genuinely "cool" tablet for starters. It would be the first "really thin" tablet. It would be first tablet properly designed to be used with fingers. It would be the first "really easy to use" tablet. It would be the first consumer tablet to have this new revolutionary multi-touch user-interface. It would be the first tablet with a "great" on-screen keyboard. Etc. etc. etc. As I said, I see this device being "huge". The addition of something like that pop-out rest on the back would be great too, you could prop up the tablet and type away on screen nicely.

That is NOT what they're talking about!

Ireland's proposal is for an 11" touch model. MUCH bigger, yet, too small to do much.

My proposal is for a model that would fit on your belt, with a screen, perhaps 4" x 6", though that size would depend on what the largest size that could be carried on you belt would be.

Only thing is, if it is a full Mac in it's own right, it's gonna have a full Mac price as well.
$600 would be a great price point.

Anything more, and I think we're headed into UMPC pricing territory. And, they don't do well at all.

Exactly

If you want it to fit in on your belt you don't know today's youth culture. And the mere fact that you cannot put that size in your pocket tells me if it was 10" it would not any difference (inconvenience-wise). I think my size would not only be way more useful and more productive, but a far far better ultra-portable Mac. Which is what the Mac touch will be.

That's like saying loads aren't going to buy a $599 phone, or even a $399 one. I definitely see this device costing over $1000. But I see it being so cool, useful and productive that it would fly off the shelves, even at that price.

I personally have almost pulled the trigger on an ipod touch like 6 times. The thing that held me back was the lack of bluetooth, screen size, storage capacity, and true web-app functionality.

The new SDK takes care of the functionality. If it had the other components I would pay up to $700 for it.

It would truly allow me to turn my macbook pro into a full time desktop. I'd only take it out if I was away from home for a really long time.

Maybe so. I personally would not buy it. Too expensive. Already have a laptop. It would also be too big for my use. Don't wanna lug it around.

Might also price out a lot of younger buyers.

But, you're right, there may be a market for it.

Also worth noting the price could come down quickly over a few years on a device like this, and it would be "the perfect couch computer".

Don't assume that every product has to be for the "youth culture".

And as far as that goes, my daughter, and most of her friends, think that even the iPhone is too big.

This product, whatever it may be, will be too expensive for kids. That hs to be established from the beginning.

If this will be a high tech device, it will cost whatever high tech devices cost. That could very well mean, for a small Newton-like device, $800. That won't be a kids toy.

This has to be based on the much smaller iPhone and iTouch, and those are already $400.

Even a 4" x 6" screen is several times the area, and a more powerful processor, graphics chip, etc will be called for.