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Letdown? - Page 4

post #121 of 196
Best keynote ever.
post #122 of 196
to that person who said "Just wait a few weeks for a MacBook Pro Update".. dude you don't know the feeling, you don't know what its like.. Lots of people have been waiting for months now... and few more weeks.. I need one like really soon and there's no way i'm buying the current one right now.
post #123 of 196
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post #124 of 196
the keynote had something good for everyone, and left out something each of us wanted too. Santa didn't bring me a pony, but the promise of continued iPhone enhancements cheers me up, since i got my wife one for Xmas, and i get to play with it too.

keep in mind this is '08 round 1. the spring WWDC round 2 usually bring hardware bumps (need Mini upgrade!) and major software news.
post #125 of 196
I guess we'll just have to continue to wait for Macs built to order with Bluray, but really, would it be that hard for Apple to add it as a built to order option?
post #126 of 196
yes it would be hard to build in BluRay for playback of DRM'd hi-def DVD's because that would require Apple to add HDCP and AACS protocols to its OS. but a no-DRM BluRay drive could be added for other purposes. or added to AppleTV, which already complies with HDCP.
post #127 of 196
And since someone has to do it, here it is :

post #128 of 196
I said this over at the macnn forums: Mac users are the biggest whiniest bunch of bitches in the world. I swear as God as my witness, I never hear so much bitching over this stuff. People bitched and whined and moaned like a bunch of bitches when Apple stopped with the built in floppy. Now they are bitching again over the Macbook Air. Stop please!
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post #129 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebeat View Post

to that person who said "Just wait a few weeks for a MacBook Pro Update".. dude you don't know the feeling, you don't know what its like.. Lots of people have been waiting for months now... and few more weeks.. I need one like really soon and there's no way i'm buying the current one right now.

i'm in the same shits there's a flight in 3 weeks -after that NO more US for a looooooooong time.
post #130 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripo View Post

i'm in the same shits there's a flight in 3 weeks -after that NO more US for a looooooooong time.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebeat View Post
to that person who said "Just wait a few weeks for a MacBook Pro Update".. dude you don't know the feeling, you don't know what its like.. Lots of people have been waiting for months now... and few more weeks.. I need one like really soon and there's no way i'm buying the current one right now.

i'm in the same shits there's a flight in 3 weeks -after that NO more US for a looooooooong time.

Ditto. An MBP Air I would have bought. This and a long wait for the next MBP update? Screw Jobs.
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post #131 of 196
See what I mean?
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post #132 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue68 View Post

Ditto. An MBP Air I would have bought.

It is a safe bet now that the next MBP will look like the MBA, just much more heavy of course.
post #133 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by haveyoumetmark View Post

$20 for touch update? are you shitting me? unlock functionality I already invested in. thats bullshit. not all ipod touch users are kids dicking around on the internet. not all people are willing to pay. total BS.

Whine whine whine whine whine

What, exactly, is your iPod touch now incapable of doing that it was capable of last week? Oh yeah! Nothing.

If the new features aren't worth $20 to you, don't pay, and don't have them.

I'm sick of this crybaby bullshit; unfortunately Apple really shot themselves in the foot when they capitulated to it last time over the iPhone price drop - it's just going to encourage another load of baseless, illogical whining about this $20 iPod touch upgrade.
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post #134 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy View Post

- Updates and speed bumps to the mini and the MacBook Pro, if any, will happen as a press release or not even mentioned at all. Steve spending time talking about Penryn is a waste. Processors always get faster. Not newsworthy. More RAM, bigger HD, different GPU, latest Intel processor. Yawn. iMacs are brand-new. Even if they get Penryn it is not something to announce at MacWorld.

I agree, if that were the case. However, many of us have been expecting for a while now for the MacBook Pro to receive a casework overall, delivering the magnetic latch, MacBook (and now more specifically, MacBook Air) style keyboard, and easy access to the HDD. i.e., not such a minor update.
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post #135 of 196
Since this is our official whining thread , let me give it a spin. But a reasonable one.

I saw not comment about pricing outside the US. Usually Apple used such events to adjust even slighlty the prices according to the currency exchange rates, but not this time.

As of now, 1 euro is 1.48 dollars. However, without VAT included, the base MB for example is 867 euros = $1283 . Now I am not saying that it should be the equivalent of the $1100 US price, since there are many factors to consider, but still, it is nearly $200 more. And this before adding VAT (OK, not Apple's fault). And on the cheapest model. In other cases the gap is even larger.
post #136 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB View Post

Since this is our official whining thread , let me give it a spin. But a reasonable one.

I saw not comment about pricing outside the US. Usually Apple used such events to adjust even slighlty the prices according to the currency exchange rates, but not this time.

As of now, 1 euro is 1.48 dollars. However, without VAT included, the base MB for example is 867 euros = $1283 . Now I am not saying that it should be the equivalent of the $1100 US price, since there are many factors to consider, but still, it is nearly $200 more. And this before adding VAT (OK, not Apple's fault). And on the cheapest model. In other cases the gap is even larger.

The base model MBA on the French Applestore is 1699 Euro... that is $2500!!!! For the base model.

Good luck selling those Steve.
post #137 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post

The base model MBA on the French Applestore is 1699 Euro... that is $2500!!!! For the base model.

Good luck selling those Steve.

Let's be fair here. Without tax, the base model is 1404 euros, around $2080 today. US price is $1800, so we talk about $280 more, which of course is too much. I wonder why Apple did not adjust the prices for the exchange rate. Now is the time. This may really slow down their sales in Europe, if it is not already the case.
post #138 of 196
I think it really effects sales now. I know I have not bought lots of items because of this...

I know that were it not for the huge markup on Macbooks, I'd be using one for my scond machine at the moment, and my family would have bought 3+. Instead, I bought a PC notebook, (of a better spec), for half the cash. I just couldn't justify the 'Apple EU Markup'. For example, I wanted a base model Macbook...

Price - 1049 Euro. Without the Tax, 880 Euro.

If we convert that 880 Euro in to $... we get $1305! Already over $200 more than the US model!

If we look at the price including tax, it works out at $1550. Sorry, but it is just too much...
post #139 of 196
But every time MWSF or any other ultrahyped Mac event that comes along that doesn't introduce an mid-priced, mid-tower will be a letdown.
post #140 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aflaaak View Post

But every time MWSF or any other ultrahyped Mac event that comes along that doesn't introduce an mid-priced, mid-tower will be a letdown.

For the better or the worse, the message I gather from Apple is that such a computer concept is already R.I.P.
post #141 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aflaaak View Post

But every time MWSF or any other ultrahyped Mac event that comes along that doesn't introduce an mid-priced, mid-tower will be a letdown.

When apple released a Mac Pro with only one cpu for $500 less, I think that was a signal they've no intention of releasing an xMac.

The entry level MP is the xMac.
post #142 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

When apple released a Mac Pro with only one cpu for $500 less, I think that was a signal they've no intention of releasing an xMac.

The entry level MP is the xMac.

$2300 (another $150 price increase) is not anywhere near entry level unless you're making six digits or are some spoiled doctors/ lawyers kid who needs not understand a budget. Apple is very lucky that Microsoft is as clueless on operation systems as they are when it comes to practical hardware. You have a lot of long time PowerMac users who aren't anywhere near happy with Apple right now.
post #143 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...g_vinb_gglsrch

Sony TZ is the target. $2,099-$3,699.99.

You are kidding right? $1799 is inexpensive in comparison.

Oh...Sony uses the GMA 950 and a slower processor in the base model.

In either case way to much money for what you get. Mac Book Vacuum is going to suck no matter how you cut it. You just get to little for the money you invest. Way to little.

Frankly a lot of people have been saying they are going to buy one, they have the right to do so, but I suspect that these purchases won't be long term once they realize just how limited the Vacuum is. Expect to see used Vacuums going for a song.
post #144 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by His Dudeness View Post

I still have a job, in fact I'm retiring from it in 6 months at the age of 38.

What do you mean, you don't need to work again for the rest of your life?
post #145 of 196
I'm confused. What exactly won't you be able to do with the Macbook Air that you can do with a Macbook?
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post #146 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB View Post

What do you mean, you don't need to work again for the rest of your life?

No, just that I'll be retired at the age of 38. And seeing as how I'm going to live another 100 years, there's time enough for another job. I was thinking about being the youngest door greeter in WalMart history.
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post #147 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

No. Try again. Go compare a Sony TZ series laptop (the MacBook Air's competition) to this, then come back here.

What is it about people not understanding it doesn't matter!!! First; it is not like the TZ is a hot seller or any ultra for that matter. This is directly related to the value equation, people look at what they get for the price and hurl. Second; Vacuum is so short on features that it is literally unusable for many people. Even Sony saw fit to keep the I/O complement up.

The problem is this: Apple had a chance here to show that they could lead the market with respect to properly valued hardware. They didn't so screw them. The only machine this Vacuum should be compared to is the ASUS EEE PC. That machine demonstrates fully what the value of the underlying hardware is. Yeah Yeah Yeah the Vacuum has a Core 2 Duo, frankly it doesn't matter either. The clock rate and Core 2 at bests would raise the price above a Eee PC by a couple of hundred dollars. So Apple is selling a $700 PC for $1700, great let me bend over now so Apple can leave with a smile.

Dave
post #148 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

What is it about people not understanding it doesn't matter!!! First; it is not like the TZ is a hot seller or any ultra for that matter. This is directly related to the value equation, people look at what they get for the price and hurl. Second; Vacuum is so short on features that it is literally unusable for many people. Even Sony saw fit to keep the I/O complement up.

The problem is this: Apple had a chance here to show that they could lead the market with respect to properly valued hardware. They didn't so screw them. The only machine this Vacuum should be compared to is the ASUS EEE PC. That machine demonstrates fully what the value of the underlying hardware is. Yeah Yeah Yeah the Vacuum has a Core 2 Duo, frankly it doesn't matter either. The clock rate and Core 2 at bests would raise the price above a Eee PC by a couple of hundred dollars. So Apple is selling a $700 PC for $1700, great let me bend over now so Apple can leave with a smile.

The only machine the MacBook Air should be compared to is the EEE PC? Because that's the only one that you think makes it look expensive? Let's ignore the fact that the EEE PC is another class of product entirely!

So, you want Apple to come out with an EEE PC equivalent. Great. I agree that if that's what they'd done and they were charging $1799 for it, that would be really, really dumb. As it happens, the only dumb thing here is your argument.
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post #149 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopollution View Post

Erm ...

1) History dictates that AAPL drops after keynote.
2) US Economy is in the shits, right now.

The market is speaking very loudly and you blame that on the economy in general! The share holders are responding because there was nothing of substance debuted hardware wise except for the NAS. Let us not forget that Apple is a hardware company and as such needs to reflect that form time to time.

One can only hope that Apple has plans in the next few weeks, maybe even few days, to get on the ball hardware wise. If not their stock will certainly take a battering.

Dave
post #150 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

$2300 (another $150 price increase) is not anywhere near entry level unless you're making six digits or are some spoiled doctors/ lawyers kid who needs not understand a budget. Apple is very lucky that Microsoft is as clueless on operation systems as they are when it comes to practical hardware. You have a lot of long time PowerMac users who aren't anywhere near happy with Apple right now.

Exactly. I just priced a Dell XPS 420 and with monitor, a better GPU and lots of other goodies. It comes in at $2000, whereas the MacPro needs a monitor, has no TV tuner, etc. I know, it still has the Mac OS and that's the only reason I keep considering a Mac and thought that maybe Apple would want my business and listen to all the others who would but an XMac in a heatbeat. I guess not
post #151 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

The only machine the MacBook Air should be compared to is the EEE PC? Because that's the only one that you think makes it look expensive? Let's ignore the fact that the EEE PC is another class of product entirely!

No silly, I'm trying to compare the machine to something that actually has been successful in the market place. A far more reasonable approach than comparing it against another failed ultra mobile PC.

I'd als argue that the Eee is not that much different class wise as you seem to believe. Eee PC is actually smartly appointed with I/O and memory expansion. The rational question them becomes if the tiny Eee PC can be built with expansion capability why can't the Vacuum? This is really what you and the other vacuum supporters need to focus on. Why so little for the money charged?

By the way don't blame it on the processor and display as that only covers a couple of hundred over Eee's price and certainly doesn't cover why so much is missing from the Vacuum.
Quote:

So, you want Apple to come out with an EEE PC equivalent. Great.

Nope that is far from what I want. In the case of the Vacuum though it is a simple question of how can ASUS pack so much into that little machine and sell it at a reasonable price and Apple can't even come close at 4 times the price. The Vacuums lack of acceptance comes not from its price but rather what you are getting for that price. Or I should say not getting.
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I agree that if that's what they'd done and they were charging $1799 for it, that would be really, really dumb. As it happens, the only dumb thing here is your argument.

Clearly you are not grasping the situation here. The problem with the Vacuum is that there is simply to little offered up for the price being charged. You can't rationally dismiss the comparison to a machine being offered at a quarter of the price of the vacuum with close to 4 times the I/O.

Dave
post #152 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

You can't rationally dismiss the comparison to a machine being offered at a quarter of the price of the vacuum with close to 4 times the I/O.

Yeah, because I/O is the only thing that matters in a computer!!!!

You ask me to ignore all the other things that make up a computer, because it blows your argument to smithereens.

Honestly the EEE PC has more in common with the Archos 705 PMP than the MacBook Air. Since you appear incapable of realising that fact, I don't see the point in debating with you.
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post #153 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by imiloa View Post

Is the battery soldered to the motherboard? If not, a savvy user can likely replace it. Or pay a service tech to do so for $100.

Yeah like that is going to work when you are standing in line at the airport security and don't have a working laptop because the battery is dead!

Beyond that why pay anybody $100 dollars for something that should just snap in place like it does on 100% of the rest fo the laptops in the world?

Further think about how this discounts the value of a Vacuum on the resale market. Not only does the factor of a replacement battery have to be considered, but getting it installed and the inconvenience of having that done needs to be considered. If people think the Vacuum is a good enough machine for them now they really need to think about its discounted resale value down the road. You won't be shifting this machine every two years with nary a dent in the budget.
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For ref, my rev D MBP battery is two years old now and still at 88% health.

Lucky you. The reality is though that 88% is still pretty bad and you can replace that battery at any time. You can even carry an extra one with you as that one ages.
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Anyone buying a MBAir over a MB/MBP is doing so for the svelte size. They are already giving up a lot of functionality, so likely not worried about $100 to swap in a new battery every 3-4 years.

Well that is one way to look at it. Frankly I suspect a lot of stupid people will buy the Vacuum because they see it as trendy. Such purchase will get dumped unceremoniously a few months latter when it is realized that the limitations are greater than the gloss of carrying one around. In effect the Vacuum is the mans equivalent of a fancy shade of lip gloss, trendy for a moment or two then disposed of for the latest ind greatest once it is realized it doesn't make up for substance.

In any event I'm beginning to fell as if I've been way to easy on the Vacuum and the people supporting it. There is certainly an air of defensiveness that has to be cut through, one just has to figure out how to ring the right bells.


dave
post #154 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aflaaak View Post

Exactly. I just priced a Dell XPS 420 and with monitor, a better GPU and lots of other goodies. It comes in at $2000, whereas the MacPro needs a monitor, has no TV tuner, etc. I know, it still has the Mac OS and that's the only reason I keep considering a Mac and thought that maybe Apple would want my business and listen to all the others who would but an XMac in a heatbeat. I guess not

If Apple were to release a single socket Mac Pro using that same high end x38 motherboard used in the 420 and its workstation cousin the T3400, they'd easily be able to hit that price point. The server class parts add about $400-600 to the price. Personally, I would have preferred Apple go with a 2.5ghz quad core at that $2300 price point and released an affordable core 2 Quad/X38 Duo Mac Pro at the low end. I'm willing to pay a premium for the Apple logo, but when that premium is $500 more than a Premium PC maker like Velocity Micro for the same capability, I reach my limit.
post #155 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Yeah, because I/O is the only thing that matters in a computer!!!!

It only matters if you don't have what you need! In the case of the Vacuum that is a big issue.
Quote:

You ask me to ignore all the other things that make up a computer, because it blows your argument to smithereens.

Nope you haven't blown anything, at least that I know of. In fact you haven't in any shape or manner supported the pricing on the Vacuum. Trying to compare it against other products that have failed in the market place isn't exactly helping your argument. Further the items you do compare it to are better equipped to be a success so what is your point?
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Honestly the EEE PC has more in common with the Archos 705 PMP than the MacBook Air.

Nope not really. Other than they both run Linux they really have little to compare. The Eee PC is in effect a miniature laptop. What make the Eee PC relevant to the discussion is the fact that they where able to pack so much into the little box. Enough I/O in fact to make it attractive to a number of people that wouldn't normally go for the form factor.
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Since you appear incapable of realising that fact, I don't see the point in debating with you.

It is good that you drop out of the discussion because you have not yet realized that what you are defending has no substance. Maybe the RDF will wear off you in a few days and you can come back to the discussion on the reasonable side.

Dave
post #156 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

If Apple were to release a single socket Mac Pro using that same high end x38 motherboard used in the 420 and its workstation cousin the T3400, they'd easily be able to hit that price point. The server class parts add about $400-600 to the price. Personally, I would have preferred Apple go with a 2.5ghz quad core at that $2300 price point and released an affordable core 2 Quad/X38 Duo Mac Pro at the low end. I'm willing to pay a premium for the Apple logo, but when that premium is $500 more than a Premium PC maker like Velocity Micro for the same capability, I reach my
limit.

Ditto. I'm willing, and expect to, pay more for the Mac OS. I just see the huge unfilled hole between a server MacPro and the limited AIO iMac and wonder why the hell Apple doesn't thing they could make money filling it.
post #157 of 196
Dave, please show everyone here that having 3 USB ports rather than 1, and an input for a mic, are not the only things that the EEE PC has over the MacBook Air.

Really, I think you must be pulling my chain with your argument. You can't seriously believe you are being serious comparing the EEE PC to the MacBook Air. You must just be having a laugh seeing how you can goad me into responding to you.

The EEE PC has:
  • a 7" 800 x 480 resolution display
  • a tiny, tiny keyboard
  • 512 MB RAM (yes, it's expandable, but the point is moot, because the max RAM is 2 GB)
  • between 2 and 8 GB of storage, depending on configuration
  • VGA output
  • Awesomely slow, single-core, one generation old architecture CPU running at 900 MHz

The MacBook Air has
  • 13.3" 1280 x 800 resolution display
  • Full-size, backlit keyboard
  • 2 GB RAM (same as EEE PC maximum)
  • 80 GB storage minimum
  • DVI out
  • Dual-core 1.6 GHz processor, minimum

All this in a package only 450 g heavier.

But wait! Let's ignore all that! The EEE PC has two extra USB ports therefore it is better and makes a mockery of the MacBook Air's price. Let's ignore the fact that all other similarly-specced computers cost at least the same as, if not more than, the MacBook Air.
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post #158 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy View Post

Would you people please remember that not everything is mentioned in the keynote? I don't know where this assumption comes from, because almost every year the speed bumps and minor upgrades always come either in the last 2 weeks of January or in February.

That is all well and good but the problem is that the keynote sucked big time. There was little offered up hardware wise that people would take an interest in. As I see it the NAS is about it. People still see Apple as a hardware company and the concentration on software at any sort of keynote is a big mistake in my mind. Especially software that is hardly breathtaking in its coverage.
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- There will never be iPod talk in January; those are updated before the holiday season. Even if there were a 16 GB update to the iPod, it isn't important enough for the keynote address. Time is limited.

Time - are you crazy they started 15 minutes late! Something, I don't know what, had this whole keynote all screwed up. Maybe they had real hardware, for real users, in the wings and found a last minute glitch or two. I really don't know but there certainly was not lack of time at this keynote.

As to the iPod Touch / IPhone let me put it bluntly, 8GB is not enough on an Apple Cell Phone. It does keep people from buying. The only good thing here is that I'm kinda hoping that they have something planned for the SDK debut. I just have to wonder if Apple will make its numbers for iPhone considering the current rate without enhancements to keep the average user happy.

I make sure I used the word average to as that is exactly what I see my self as. It doesn't take long to fill 8GB with little bit of music. a lot of pictures, and a few other files.
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- Updates and speed bumps to the mini and the MacBook Pro, if any, will happen as a press release or not even mentioned at all. Steve spending time talking about Penryn is a waste. Processors always get faster. Not newsworthy. More RAM, bigger HD, different GPU, latest Intel processor. Yawn. iMacs are brand-new. Even if they get Penryn it is not something to announce at MacWorld.

I will simply disagree here as the above described updates are of greater interest than what was delivered in the keynote. By a long shot.
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They had 3 new products - Apple TV, the NAS, and the MacBook Air, plus iTS video rentals and MS Office 2008. There is no time to talk about the MBP getting a Penryn processor. It will get it when it gets it.

The RDF must have a strong influence on you. Lets see the Apple TV gets a software update, not really new if you ask me. The NAS is new and frankly the only thing that deserved time at the keynote. Video rentals are again software and a rehash of previous technology. And finally we get the Vacuum, likely the greatest example of mass control of the human mind in history. A product of no substance that everybody goes goo goo gaga over.

All in all I'm not impressed at all with the keynote and my opinion is not singular. That is reflected in the trouncing the stock is taking right now. To bad for Apple share holders but wisely I'm not one of them. Hopefully they can pull a rabbit out of the hat soon.

dave
post #159 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

...

EEE PC (this is taken directly from Asus web site, the download (?) section.



MacBook Air


Clearly those two products are not made for the same audience. Which one are you?

(Moderators, I don't mind being banned a few days, I have work to do anyway!)
post #160 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

As to the iPod Touch / IPhone let me put it bluntly, 8GB is not enough on an Apple Cell Phone.

That's a good one! You don't see any contradiction here between "8 GB is not enough for the iPhone" and "it's reasonable to compare the EEE PC to the MacBook Air" (EEE PC has 8 GB storage maximum, MacBook Air 10 x that).


Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

The NAS is new and frankly the only thing that deserved time at the keynote.

The NAS is underwhelming. Doesn't add anything to existing products other than looking a bit prettier. Should have the option to have dual drives in a redundant RAID, and have the option of running various servers such as a webserver, iTunes server for serving AppleTV and the like.
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