Apple introduces new Apple TV software, lowers hardware pricing - Page 2

I think they are refining the niche that AppleTV fits into nicely. It's not all things to all people, but it's getting much more attractive.

I am not really all that interested in the movie rentals feature of the new AppleTV update, I would however like to know if they added further sorting options for Movies and TV shows already in your library. Basically the stuff they have had for the music for so long (directors, genre, actors, ect...)and strangely left out of the video side of things? I saw that is available on the movie rental side...anyone know if they put it in the My Movies section?

-p

Building a product for niche market is not smart business. You limit returns. This market may continue to grow but historically has been slow to grow. I see the added value they are adding but the fact remains that they are not doing what they should do to capture more consumers to grow the space. They are business to make money. For pennies they can add functionality and grow the user base by leaps and bounds. Apple TV is a product way ahead of its time and does some things really well but if it wants to bring "video to the living room" they they need to help the average consumer transition into what it wants to do.

And what about the scrolling and searching mode- that was in drastic need of improvement. Has this been fixed? It's currently worse than an iPod.
Also do videos play sequentialy as music does or still stop after only one is played- a real bother.

I have a 50" Pioneer Plasma. The main problem with HD out of ATV was the lack of content. The only source of HD content was some podcasts (Cocktails On the Fly for example). To be honest with you, I personally cannot see an improvement between 720p and 1080i. On Videophile boards, people rip on ANY interlaced content (be it SD or HD) because of the horizontal lines that can become visible during fast motion or with hard lines running diagonally across the screen.

I rip a lot of DVDs with handbrake. If the source material was shot digitally (For example: Battlestar Galactica, 300) the picture is almost always progressive rather than interlaced. Using the AppleTV preset (H.264/AAC@2500kbps/720X358 anamorphic)in Handbrake yields a DVD quality picture with a soundtrack downmixed from 5.1 to prologic II. Total file size for a typical 120 minute movie is about 2-2.5GB. For source material that is interlaced (Scrubs, Family Guy), the interlacing can sometimes be very noticeable, even if the de-interlace option is selected in Handbrake.

Photos taken with my 6 Megapix digital camera truly look stunning. The photo viewer option on ATV is one of its best features, in my opinion.

YouTube quality is very dependent on the source and ranges in quality from pretty good to piss poor.

I have not purchased video content from iTunes Store, but I have downloaded some free videos that were released after the resolution bump to 640X480. These look pretty good, but the compression artifacts are definitely noticeable during fast motion or if there are large swaths of a similar color across the screen.

I am not ready to ditch my DVD player just yet. Nor have I dropped plans to buy the Pioneer Elite BluRay player. I am thrilled to see that Apple will make the software update available to previous ATV owners. With the combination of 5.1 and HD from iTunes, I may soon be thinking about getting rid of my DVD player in favor of an ATV + BluRay player home theater.

Hmmm... I didn't get that at all.
Sounded to me like it was the software update that would be available in 2 weeks... no hardware changes.

It was announced after 5pm Uk time so the price here probably wont be updated until tomorrow.

I hope when they introduce movies here, they also try and do a rental deal with the BBC for comedy programmes, then I'd definately buy one.

Yes i noticed that.

Does anybody know if the US version works over here in the UK?

Seconded. I'm also waiting for an internal DVD (Superdrive). I'm looking to replace components in my media center, not add another. No way I'm burning all 200+ of my existing DVDs just to play them on aTV.
(where do you find that Apple symbol anyway? )

Is it still possible to type in any valid USA address (I'm in Canada but lived in the US for years) and a valid (Canadian) credit card and they still don't cross-reference the two so we here in Canada can start renting too?

No it won't be that. Apple is huge multinational company, the uk and all other major apple web stores and sites always close and get updated during the keynote. Occasionally it takes longer for the stores to come back, but they always do it as a full shut down ala us.

It is however perfectly possible that its just an error/oversight.... lets see what happens.

Whats happend in other markets?


As for BBC tv programmes, remember apple have been selling some US shows on the UK itunes for a while now. They must have been trying for ages to get UK content. While I'm sure BBC Worldwide or 2entertain ltd content will eventually be on itunes, it won't be anytime soon.

With the BBC on just launching iplayer, the BBC govenors would stop Worldwie/2ent doing anything major/public online right now to avoid controversy and confusion. Also there will probably be clauses in all comossioned content where the bbc does not acquire a control on distribution they will certainly aquire a time limit control on each platform.

Channel 4 comissioned programmes direct from production companies is much more likely.

BBC content on itunes outside the uk will probably happen more quickly, but BBC (i.e. not-worldwide) would want to avoid high profile launching right now due to iplayer confusion and issues.

The update, rentals, and price drop does make it more tempting; but I don't think it's quite there yet. Why? Because of this...would you have bought an iPod if you couldn't listen to your existing CD collection? If you had to buy/rent everything you wanted to listen to? I'm guessing not.

So unless they've added the ability to play VIDEO_TS files from ripped DVDs, have a seemless solution for converting my DVDs with full surround sound (Handbrake is close to that, but will the new ATV software support discrete surround from there?), or add a [minimum] DVD drive, I'm afraid it's a no-go. Like one other poster said, I'm looking to replace an AV component, not add yet another to the rats nest already connected to my TV. I wan't Apple to simplify things for me, not make them more complicated!

That being said, all the articles I've read (no chance to watch the keynote yet) said the software update would be release when the "new Apple TV" was released in Feb. I'm really, really hoping the "new" part of that includes some additional hardware options.

There are some burnt effigies of me around here somewhere from when I suggested that in another thread. It was quite the soiree...

But, um... Yes, I have a question:
Erm, what if the... ahem. ...movie I want to watch is, um, 25 hours long?

People, the Apple TV is not a home media server, and it never will be. It's a bridge between your television and the iTunes Store, personal media on your computer, and online services otherwise trapped in the computer like YouTube, Flickr. etc. these are the only three capabilities there isn't already a better device available to do.

It doesn't need a DVD player because people already have those. It doesn't need to rip DVDs because it's 1,000,000 times faster just to put the disc in the DVD player you already own. It doesn't need to store every movie you ever bought because that's what your DVD shelf is for. And it's not going to ever be a tv tuner because allowing you to record television doesn't help Apple make money or their annual negotiations with studios & networks.

It seems that the price didn't change in Europe.

Yeah, we hear you. It's basically a POS (point of sale not the other definition) terminal for content.

So you pay money (but hey! it's less money since production costs have come down on what's essentially the same hardware we tried to wow you with last year) just for the luxury of paying too much to rent videos.

To be honest, they should just charge a subscription fee and throw the aTV in for free.

I'm disappointed. This really seems like a very single dimensional product.

Bingo! I think people are so used to the "all-in-one" concept of the Apple products that they what the Apple TV to be the same. Problem is you get that Apple price on there too. Think about how MUCH it would be if it was, like some people seem to want a

-40"(at least) 1080p LCDTV
-Digital Cable descrambler
-DVR
-Blu-Ray Player
-Meda Hub with 40 gig harddrive.

Lets see...my new 40" 1080p set (a Samsung LN-T4071) put me back $1600 on sale but is regular price $2600. An HD Tivo is $399. Lets assume a Blu-Ray player is the same. A descrambler can go for $100 but I don't know if that would let you use, for example, Comcast digital cable or a satelite. Finally, a 40 gig harddrive media hub goes for $229 now.

Would anyone REALLY want to pay $3729 for that?

Wow, in Europe we now pay a wopping $177 premium on the top model Apple TV and $145 on the entry level, compared to the US.

Can someone please explain that to me??????

Add to that: No movies to buy or to rent. No TV shows. NADA.


And we are supposed to be excited?


Not acceptable Steve!

I'm surprised Apple did not increase the hard drive size.

I won't even pay $229 for the media hub portion. My sole desire was for it to have an optical drive (plain vanilla DVD would've been fine). I want less devices, not more. This thing is too limited in what it has to offer.

I hope they see fit to update the mini. I'm willing to pay to get the features I want but I'm not making a huge compromise and even considering this device. It's just a re-release of a flopped gadget from last year with extra stuff you can pay even more money to see temporarily.

It's most certainly *not* their next iPod.

Well, its enough for me to get it. I already have a DVD player in my Xbox 360 and that works great. Why would I want to get a second one? I wont get a new device until Blu-Ray prices come down in the next year or so.

I would like the ability to play the content from my computer (and I have a pretty fair amount) on my nice new TV. The Apple TV lets me do that. I also like the iTunes rentals.

You've got to be freaking kidding me. A SOFTWARE update? After all the talk about how the TV was going to be revamped, that's all they offer?

This is the most no-news Macworld I can ever remember.

I'll probably drop the $20 on this app and see how well it lives up to its claims. If it does what it says then it's much more useful to me than the aTV and lets my PS3 play all my media.

Medialink

Apple just released an external USB DVD drive in tasteful brushed aluminium styling.

I really wish they'd write the code so that one could connect such a thing to an AppleTV.

Amorya

Or tell us what the frkng USB port is for? I want to hear it from Apple. They put the thing on it, they should let us do something officially with it. Open it up to third party apps at the very least. WHo puts a physical feature on a product and never tells you what it's for? This must be a first in manufacturing. Have there ever been any other examples of such foolishness?

There was the mezzanine slot on rev. A G3 iMacs. It actually had some cool uses though. One company figured out how to use it to add VooDoo 3D graphics capability to the iMac. Sadly, the mezzanine slot disappeared on subsequent iMac releases.

You can't rent a new release from Blockbuster for less than than $6, which doesn't include driving to the store and back, or spending 45 minutes wandering the isles. You also don't have to deal with them not having the movie you want, scratched discs, next-gen formats and the players required, firmware upgrades, profile incompatibilities, all that good fun. Apple's also a dollar cheaper than the xBox live Marketplace, which doesn't have anywhere near the selection or convenience of the new Apple TV.


That would be the ideal solution, yes. They could charge you $1-$3 per month to lease the box, just like internet providers do with cable modems. I was gifted an Apple TV last year, so movie rentals is awesome for me. I can't say whether I'd actually drop $229 for the convenience if I wasn't given one for free.


A software update and HD content, content, content. That was the only problem with the Apple TV all along, and now it's fixed.

You can't buy HD so how is it fixed?

Well I'm sold on the ATV. The lower price and rentals (some with 5.1) are certainly a bonus.

We can all yell to the cows come home about what we want but right now we still have hardware constraints.

I think that next year we get the second major revision of hardware and the ATV will be going to an Intel Silverthorne or Canmore chip. Right now the optimum thing for Apple to do is get the content in order.

Unlike others I only plan for online rentals to augment my purchases and Netflix. I rent movies far cheaper with Netflix and money talks in this home. But for that time when you have friends over and you all need a consensus on what to watch having online downloads helps.

Can't wait to get a good DSLR and view my photos on my HDTV. The .mac integration is nice as well since I'm going to be getting that service soon enough.

I don't pay anywhere near $6 for a rental now and I can't remember the last time I *ever* went to a store to rent. Netflix is cheaper, and aside from a single incident where a disc had a scratch that caused a problem their service has been exemplary. Their site takes my ratings and the recommendations of my friends and does a good job of suggesting potential content. I browse aimlessly only if I wish to. My plan costs $14 a month and I go through about 12 movies a month since I fit 'em in when I can and/or watch them multiple times. I pay no premium for HD content either. So, at 3.99 a pop, I'd get stuck paying $48 a month now (ignoring the hardware cost)? At 4.99 I'd be paying out $60.

Let me be honest, I love movies. I love them a lot. I can watch a huge catalog of them for $14 a month if I accept at most a 2 or 3 day wait (usually 2). I don't see instant access being worth that huge premium.

( I can't speak to the Xbox points as I don't have one. )

at the profile incompatibility point you make. Do you think *anyone* watches the "extras" and stuff on movies they rent? None of the profile issues prevent the movie from being viewed, seriously. I've got a PS3 anyhow so I wouldn't have that issue to contend with. Do *you* get all the extras with the movies you rent from Apple?

The aTV is a cash register you install in your living room for Apple's convenience.

I stand by my statement that this is certainly not their next iPod. It may be better than it was at release, but topping that was easy.

Nobody was buying movies on iTunes previously, why would they start today? The fix is that you can rent now, which is what people wanted to do all along. People don't want to drop $20 on a super-compressed file that only plays in a single location and requires they find a way of archiving it in case of drive failure, when for the same amount of money you could get a Blu-Ray or HD DVD with none of those hassles or compromises. People aren't going to want to invest hundreds of dollars in digital movies until they can play them anywhere they wish, and redownload them if something should happen to their collection.



I'm also a Netflix subscriber, and intend to remain so. What I'll use the Apple TV for is renting films in HD which are only available on Blu-Ray, which I don't have a player of yet. Most people don't have either an HD DVD or Blu-Ray player yet, so the Apple TV gives them a way to enjoy films in HD without investing in a new (and possibly temporary) format. Also, few people rent 12 movies a month. Obviously Netflix is the best fit for people like you. For people who rent three movies or less a month, why not an Apple TV?


The Apple TV is not for you. That doesn't automatically make it a failure of a product though.



Some profile 1.0 players have had playback issues with profile 1.1 discs. The film itself, not the extras.


Oh I don't for a second believe they're going to sell tens of millions of Apple TVs, but now that it's no longer a half-baked product they're definitely going to start selling some.

I ordered a refurbished 160GB tv for $279.00 this afternoon, and it's already on its way.

Has anyone seen the guided tour of the Apple TV? That girl hosting the preview looks like she sinks ships. Does anyone agree?

So Cory, please tell me, do you own an iPod? I'm guessing you do. Why did you buy it? I'm also going to guess that at the time you purchased you iPod you also owned a CD player. In all likelihood, you owned a portable CD player. So I ask again, why did you buy an iPod? After all, you already had a way to listen to your CDs. And more importantly, if Apple had designed the iPod so that it could only play music you purchased from iTunes, would you still have bought it? Maybe you would have, but a lot of other people wouldn't have. Same with Apple TV. Will more people buy one now? Sure. Would even more people buy one if it had a DVD player? You bet!

Already have a DVD player, you say? So why would I want to buy another one? Well, it seems there is a pretty good market for DVD players, so there must be people that are still buying them. And a lot of people who already own DVD players are upgrading to upconverting DVD players. I'm one of those people in the market up replace my aging, non-progressive, non-upconverting DVD players. I'm not going to buy both a new DVD player AND and Apple TV. it's just not going to happen.

Finally, you argue that because most people already have a DVD player that Apple TV doesn't need one. By that argument, you also don't need an Apple TV at all then! Why? Because if you are like 85% of the US households, you have cable. Me, I have Comcast (2nd in evilness only to AT&T). You may have heard of their little service called "On Demand". Sure, their movies cost $1 more to rent; but then I'd have to rent 229 movies to cover the cost of Apple TV. I don't know about you, but I have a life.

So, for me personally, Apple TV gives me nothing I need that I don't already have. I can already do everything between my DVD player, Airport Express (audio), and On Demand. And on the very, very rare occasions I need more, I plug my laptop into my TV. Just like I did tonight with the keynote address. I watched it upscaled to my 1080p plasma from the DVI port on my laptop. What, you can't do that with your Apple TV? What a shame!

If Apple TV can't simplify my life, I've got better things to spend my money on. As it is right now, it only adds to the mess already connected to my TV.

Don't get me wrong. Apple with sell more Apple TVs now that they have rentals. But DVD drives are dirt cheap. And it really wouldn't have cut into Apple's rental service. But even it it did, they first need to get the hardware into our homes, because until they do that, they'll have far fewer people to rent to.

All products fit into a niche. Some niches are larger than others. It's also known as product positioning.

In the broadest possible sense, people who own televisions and want to watch DVDs are DVD player customers. Part of that audience will also want to buy televisions that have built-in DVD players. There are millions of possible ways to split the pie.

Sinks ships? What does that mean? I thought she was kinda cute.

That caught me off guard too. Was that a failed try at the "face that launched a thousand ships" Helen of Troy thing?

Sinks ships makes me think of Rosie O'Donnel rampaging about ramped up on testosterone and wielding a club fashioned fom a dinosaur leg bone.

Other than 1080 (which still may be possible from the hardware), what else do you want from the hardware? Most of the complaints people had could be addressed with a software update, and many of them were.

To be honest, I'm surprised anyone even expected a hardware update.


When the iPod first shipped, it was a niche market. That seemed to work out OK. Heck, the mac itself has always been a niche market, and it's growing right now.

The market for viewing digital files will grow, and from what I've seen the aTV update and rentals may be the biggest thing to encourage growth so far. What functionality do you think they could add for "pennies"?


Yep. And it's a completely different sales model. As long as you consume enough, an all you can eat restaurant is cheaper than a regular one. But you don't eat just at all you can eat places, do you?

I'm curious what netflix will offer, but so far nobody is offering a subscription plan for movies, are they? I don't see how it would be possible assuming that studios demand a set fee per viewing. Netflix can only do it because they are buying physical discs and don't have to pay a royalty every time they send it out.

I'll dispute that analogy.

Netflix offers superior quality.
Netflix offers superior selection
Netflix charges no premium for FULL HD in my format of choice.
I don't use their online content so I am content in waiting a couple days to rotate my selections.

Hmm...judging from those criteria, it doesn't fit your "all you can eat buffet" model.

aTV satisfies the "I want it now" personality
aTV is lower quality
aTV is inferior selection

Hey, those criteria *do* satisfy the "all you can eat buffet" model!

The only aspects of each which match your point are the prices.

I get a much better deal with netflix at its "buffet" price than someone at the aTV "buffet" paying premium price. The aTV user also gets the privilege of paying a hefty fee just enter that buffet.

As a consumer, I don't care about rationalizations for Apple's pricing structure. I believe they negotiated the best they could and this is the result. I don't fault then one bit for that. It doesn't change the fact that the cost of utilizing the iTMS for my rentals is higher and without the actual aTV, HD is off-limits.

Maybe the aTV v3.0 will get it right.

For $13.99 a month I can choose HD or SD content. At $2.99 or $3.99 I can watch 4 movies a month from the iTMS (actually at $3.99 I can't even finish that 4th one). If I want HD I pay a $229 "tax" for the privilege. I'm generally not cheap but I *can* recognize value, and the Netflix plan has it over the iTMS/aTV in my opinion.