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Apple introduces new Apple TV software, lowers hardware pricing - Page 3

post #81 of 95
1/16/08 at 4:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancho View Post

The only aspects of each which match your point are the prices.

I was only referring to prices with my analogy. Netflix is cheaper as long as you watch enough movies. But their biggest moneymaker is people who have a plan but don't get around to watching things - they end up paying more per movie than renting individually.

And as for the cost of entry, I'm interested in aTV for viewing ripped dvds as well. I'm interested in the box regardless of whether it had rentals available or not. And if you're looking at the HD formats, you're probably going to pay more for a bluray player than for the aTV, so no cost of entry disadvantage there.

Both ways have their advantages and disadvantages. Sure, netflix can be a good deal if it provides what you want and you take full advantage of it. But that doesn't mean it's the best option for everyone (nor does it mean that someone with netflix wouldn't find it useful to get a movie on a night where your discs are in transit, or if you want to make a last minute decision).
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post #82 of 95
1/16/08 at 5:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

I was only referring to prices with my analogy. Netflix is cheaper as long as you watch enough movies. But their biggest moneymaker is people who have a plan but don't get around to watching things - they end up paying more per movie than renting individually.

And as for the cost of entry, I'm interested in aTV for viewing ripped dvds as well. I'm interested in the box regardless of whether it had rentals available or not. And if you're looking at the HD formats, you're probably going to pay more for a bluray player than for the aTV, so no cost of entry disadvantage there.

Both ways have their advantages and disadvantages. Sure, netflix can be a good deal if it provides what you want and you take full advantage of it. But that doesn't mean it's the best option for everyone (nor does it mean that someone with netflix wouldn't find it useful to get a movie on a night where your discs are in transit, or if you want to make a last minute decision).


I understand where you're coming from. I'd consider a similar device if it was more full featured. My absolute requirement at this point though is that the device have an optical drive for DVD playback. If I can reduce clutter without reducing my options then I'm a happy camper. The aTV doesn't allow this for whatever contrived reasons people want to use to rationalize it. A DVD playing drive (not recordable) is a trivial cost at this point and for $259 rather than $229, should have been an option. They could've added 3/4" to the height of the aTV to squeeze one in there.

Contrary to the tune of my posts, I don't hate the iTMS. If I had a more functional device to use, then I'd have the option to explore what the iTMS offers and possibly make some purchases. As it exists now, the aTV is something I'd have to add to my existing set of devices. It does not provide the value for me to justify it.

One thing I'm sick of hearing is how the world is going all VOD as if it's happening tomorrow. The reality is a bit different and I have a collection of DVD's that trump Apple's content. Do I expect to continue buying DVDs forever? No. I'm a realist. Someday perhaps we'll climb out of the technological third world here in the US and have a better infrastructure to support widespread adoption of VOD. That's a ways off.
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post #83 of 95
1/16/08 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancho View Post

I'll probably drop the $20 on this app and see how well it lives up to its claims. If it does what it says then it's much more useful to me than the aTV and lets my PS3 play all my media.

Medialink

It's crap for me. It works OK for maybe ten minutes then it starts behaving badly. I think Elgato has one, I'll have to try that next.
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post #84 of 95
1/16/08 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

It's crap for me. It works OK for maybe ten minutes then it starts behaving badly. I think Elgato has one, I'll have to try that next.

Good to know. Keep me posted on your success/failure. I'd really like to make this work.
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post #85 of 95
1/16/08 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancho View Post

Good to know. Keep me posted on your success/failure. I'd really like to make this work.

I emailed tech support, we'll see how they can help me. Given that it's a very new program, I can expect some trouble, though it would have been nice if they did a public beta. They do have a free trial, so you can see if it does anything for you. One symptom is that the menu items for the MediaLink menu bar icon show gibberish rather than actual text.

It doesn't cause stability problems in the Mac, it's just that the UPnP sharing gets faulty after a bit. It's worth a free trial.

For their sake, I hope I'm a rare exception.
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post #86 of 95
1/16/08 at 6:04pm
Anyone think the price drop is designed to clear out the backstock of AppleTVs that have been stagnating in a warehouse somewhere…?!?

And come Spring, a new version of AppleTV which has DVD standard & Blu-Ray as an option…?

But still no tuner or DVR capabilities, doesn't fit with the sales/rental business model…
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post #87 of 95
1/16/08 at 6:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post

Anyone think the price drop is designed to clear out the backstock of AppleTVs that have been stagnating in a warehouse somewhere?!?

Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post

And come Spring, a new version of AppleTV which has DVD standard & Blu-Ray as an option?

<sarcasm>
No, that would violate the prime directive of the New VOD World Order!

Get on your Star Trek jammies and warm up your tricorders guys! It's gonna be a wild ride!
</sarcasm>
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post #88 of 95
1/16/08 at 6:33pm
I think they need to restructure the pricing of sales & the terms of rental…

I feel 6.99 for library & 9.99 for new movies should be fair to the consumer; if I want to pay prices near the physical DVD retail price, I would expect to get all of the extras the DVD has, and which iTunes doesn't give…

As for rentals, 24 hours is not long enough, gotta be at least 48 hours, if not 72… If I rent the latest Pixar for the kids over the weekend, I want just that, over the weekend… I might even pay an extra buck for the 72 hour option…

In the long run, I think Apple needs to work out a subscription service for music, tv & movies…

Think about what you pay on a yearly basis for cable…
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post #89 of 95
1/16/08 at 6:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post

I think they need to restructure the pricing of sales & the terms of rental

I feel 6.99 for library & 9.99 for new movies should be fair to the consumer; if I want to pay prices near the physical DVD retail price, I would expect to get all of the extras the DVD has, and which iTunes doesn't give

I think they are pushing that way, in an incremental way. I think Jobs was showing off Ratatouille with chapter marks and made a point to mention that chapters, subs and alternate languages are going to be supported now/soon, at least in the hardware.
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post #90 of 95
1/16/08 at 7:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I think they are pushing that way, in an incremental way. I think Jobs was showing off Ratatouille with chapter marks and made a point to mention that chapters, subs and alternate languages are going to be supported now/soon, at least in the hardware.

The chapters/subs & alt lang. are a given with the rental market. No one wants to fast-forward through over half a movie, many need subs to 'hear' the dialog, and not everyone speaks/reads English…

But that doesn't give me deleted scenes, alternate endings, behind-the-scenes, commentary, etc.

If they had ALL the extras available, I would pay 9.99 library & up to 13.99 for new releases. Still a few bucks off of physical media retail, since I don't get the actual physical media…
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post #91 of 95
1/16/08 at 8:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post

The chapters/subs & alt lang. are a given with the rental market. No one wants to fast-forward through over half a movie, many need subs to 'hear' the dialog, and not everyone speaks/reads English

But that doesn't give me deleted scenes, alternate endings, behind-the-scenes, commentary, etc.

If they had ALL the extras available, I would pay 9.99 library & up to 13.99 for new releases. Still a few bucks off of physical media retail, since I don't get the actual physical media

That's true, but I think it's going to happen, it might take a year or two. About once a year, Apple ups the ante.
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post #92 of 95
1/16/08 at 8:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

So Cory, please tell me, do you own an iPod? I'm guessing you do. Why did you buy it? I'm also going to guess that at the time you purchased you iPod you also owned a CD player. In all likelihood, you owned a portable CD player. So I ask again, why did you buy an iPod? After all, you already had a way to listen to your CDs. And more importantly, if Apple had designed the iPod so that it could only play music you purchased from iTunes, would you still have bought it? Maybe you would have, but a lot of other people wouldn't have. Same with Apple TV. Will more people buy one now? Sure. Would even more people buy one if it had a DVD player? You bet!

Already have a DVD player, you say? So why would I want to buy another one? Well, it seems there is a pretty good market for DVD players, so there must be people that are still buying them. And a lot of people who already own DVD players are upgrading to upconverting DVD players. I'm one of those people in the market up replace my aging, non-progressive, non-upconverting DVD players. I'm not going to buy both a new DVD player AND and Apple TV. it's just not going to happen.

Finally, you argue that because most people already have a DVD player that Apple TV doesn't need one. By that argument, you also don't need an Apple TV at all then! Why? Because if you are like 85% of the US households, you have cable. Me, I have Comcast (2nd in evilness only to AT&T). You may have heard of their little service called "On Demand". Sure, their movies cost $1 more to rent; but then I'd have to rent 229 movies to cover the cost of Apple TV. I don't know about you, but I have a life.

So, for me personally, Apple TV gives me nothing I need that I don't already have. I can already do everything between my DVD player, Airport Express (audio), and On Demand. And on the very, very rare occasions I need more, I plug my laptop into my TV. Just like I did tonight with the keynote address. I watched it upscaled to my 1080p plasma from the DVI port on my laptop. What, you can't do that with your Apple TV? What a shame!

If Apple TV can't simplify my life, I've got better things to spend my money on. As it is right now, it only adds to the mess already connected to my TV.

Don't get me wrong. Apple with sell more Apple TVs now that they have rentals. But DVD drives are dirt cheap. And it really wouldn't have cut into Apple's rental service. But even it it did, they first need to get the hardware into our homes, because until they do that, they'll have far fewer people to rent to.

1. iPod doesn't just save you the trouble of carrying the CD from the shelf to the player, it lets you take thousands of songs in your pocket for use in your car, office, anywhere. Ripping DVDs to a home theatre PC has no such advantage; it just means you don't have to walk from the DVD shelf to the DVD player.

2. Even if Apple put a DVD player in the Apple TV, they wouldn't give it a decent upconversion chip, so the quality would pale in comparison to a dedicated upconverter or an HD DVD or Blu-Ray player (which both carry good to great upconversion chips). It also wouldn't decode or bitstream all of the fancy audio codecs to your receiver, like a dedicated player can.

3. On-Demand from cable and satellite providers generally only give you access to about 20 movies per month, and the interfaces I've used have been clunky, glitchy, and unpleasant. Apple TV will presumably give you access to thousands and thousands of movies at any time, via an elegant and usable interface. Is it worth $229? I'm not sure, I got mine as a gift. I suppose it depends on how much other stuff you have on your computer you'd like to see on your television.
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post #93 of 95
1/17/08 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post

Anyone think the price drop is designed to clear out the backstock of AppleTVs that have been stagnating in a warehouse somewhere?!?

And come Spring, a new version of AppleTV which has DVD standard & Blu-Ray as an option?

I don't think this model is going anywhere for a while. I wouldn't be surprised if we never see an optical drive. Honestly, it doesn't interest me...I'm interested in moving away from discs anyway so I can watch content on ipods as well.

I'm much more interested in expanding the software features. What about negotiating with the websites of the TV networks to stream their HD content?

And does the box stream internet radio yet? I saw airtunes, but what about this?
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post #94 of 95
1/17/08 at 7:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancho View Post

I'll probably drop the $20 on this app and see how well it lives up to its claims. If it does what it says then it's much more useful to me than the aTV and lets my PS3 play all my media.

Medialink

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

It's crap for me. It works OK for maybe ten minutes then it starts behaving badly. I think Elgato has one, I'll have to try that next.

Elgato's program is called EyeConnect. It shares music just fine, but it completely fails at video and photos. I looked up the page, it supports UPnP in a generic manner, the list of supported devices does not include PS3. They do have a FAQ item about it, it looks like they acknowledge its potential and say it only works in a limited way, and will try to make it work. AppleTV is looking better, I'll have to put it and an HDMI switch on my virtual wish list.
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post #95 of 95
2/11/08 at 3:24pm
Right on, our premium on hardware here in Canada is not as high right now, my 160GB Apple TV was $20.00 more in Canada. However, its very frustrating when no one will tell us why we can't get the same services as do the US Customers. I suspect its either the studios on in the case of Canada, some stupid Canadian Content ruling, as for Apple its no big deal whether the customer ordering the movies is in Toronto or London

Apple has already admitted that Apple TV take one did not work, so ok, I bought the Apple TV on faith that this was going to change.

Funny, Canada and the US are supposed to have free trade.

Very frustrating!


Quote:
Originally Posted by abbot View Post

Wow, in Europe we now pay a wopping $177 premium on the top model Apple TV and $145 on the entry level, compared to the US.

Can someone please explain that to me??????

Add to that: No movies to buy or to rent. No TV shows. NADA.


And we are supposed to be excited?


Not acceptable Steve!
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