First Look: Apple TV 2.0 and iTunes Movie Rentals (photos, video) - Page 2

No it isn't, people aren't going to rush out and pay 399 ($591) to rent a highly compressed movie that may not look that much better than a upscaled DVD

I am both excited about this and about getting a Blueray player for 1080p. But I also agree with this comment:

"Kind of pissed they didn't add a high end model with a DVD slot. I would like an Apple TV, but the last thing I want is "another" device under the TV."

I just don't want more and more boxes down there, more and more remotes. I hate all that.

You don't have to change anything on the Apple TV apart from the software. Many people use Network Attached Storage (NAS) drives these days to store their DVD / Movie / Photos 'assets'. Software like 'MediaCentral' - very similar to Front Row; will let you open and play Video_TS folders from anywhere on your home network. It will only play unprotected video. So if the Apple TV could play Video_TS folders then I imagine a lot more people would be interested in the device.

And another thing, I want to control the AppleTV with my iPhone, it sure would make a better controller, say tranfering the menu to the AppleTV app on iPhone and can order and schedule events on the AppleTV from anywhere in home or the office. I want my email viewable via Apple TV, again for office or home.

That's not the only way. There's borrowing, and file sharing. You don't always have to pay for everything, and nor should you.

Once again, my computer has a DVD drive. I buy and add an AppleTV to my entertainment system. All I ask is: Let me stream my DVDs to it and get rid of my DVD player. That is a totally reasonable request and simple to comprehend.

The problem is that you shouldn't have to keep paying to play! All the upgrade does is keep putting neverending money in Apple's and the studio's pockets. If you already own your digital content (DVDs) you still don't have any new options except to use Handbrake! Who's talking about stealing? You should be able to stream you own DVDs from your computer at the very least , which would eliminate the DVD player from your system. HOw many boxes do you need? And I reall don't understand why you cannot rip your DVDs right in iTunes- you're not copying them in the exact same format - it's lower quality. Overlay it with DRM then. The option should be built right into the iTune app just like CDs.

AppleTV doesn't come remotely close to optical HD discs in quality or features. AppleTV compresses both the audio and video streams far more (they strip out some 16-22GB!!!! of color information and detail), it doesn't offer the same captioning features, it doesn't offer extras (you know, those cute little animation shorts on Pixar discs), and it doesn't offer you the option of rewatching your favorite parts of a movie the next day. This is the real VHS vs Beta war. It's cable, satellite, on-demand and video download companies racing to see how little quality the viewer will be satisfied with.

What's wrong with the DRM on Blu-ray? Is the author of this article actually suggesting the 24-hour time limit with a fraction of the quality is a better solution?

In the spirit of Steve Jobs and iTunes, I would rather own my music, ,er, HD videos.

I noticed the "Top Rentals" box, but I didn't see any way to get to the rentals that aren't "top."

For me, the iTunes interface is cluttered and it is difficult for me to find things that aren't "recommended," "top," or "new." I just want to browse all the whatevers in a category.

This is what iTunes Digital Copy is intended for.

Hopefully Blu-Ray managed copy will exist some day too.

Feb when the SDK is released. I'm sure someone will figure it out.

Um... maybe I'm misremembering the keynote, but that seems to directly contradict what Steve said. Or am I wrong?

Yes. I'm trying to figure this out as well. Steve showed copying a rented movie over to an iPod, didn't he?

Here are some specific questions I have coming out of the presentation...

1. Can you only rent HD movies through aTV, or can you do it Through iTunes as well (though I personally don't know why you'd want to)

2. Can you still pull content from iTunes libraries? If the answer is "yes", then people CAN rip DVDs they want and view them through the aTV. I would imagine you can, since surely you'd still want to view movies made through iMovie to be viewable on aTV.

3. Can HD movie rentals be moved to iPods? I tried copying an HD podcast to my iPod (first-generation video iPod) and it was a no go. Now this isn't really an issue because the quality difference viewing on my iPod screen would be impossible to see, and only recent generation iPods allow for component out, the minimum necessary for HD playback. But can new iPods hold HD videos? Has anyone tried copying an HD podcast to an new iPod Nano, iPod Touch, or iPhone?

4. Is there an HD codec for aTV now? Can people Visual Hub/Handbrake their own HD files?

After looking carefully at the movie rental pages for Apple TV and iTunes (they're separate pages), it does appear that only movies rented via iTunes, on your computer, can be transferred to the iPod. The Apple TV rentals page makes no mention of viewing a movie on the iPod later.

I'm sure the HD movies, regardless, won't play on the iPod, but I'm fine with that. You're buying the HD version for a reason, after all.

I still think I'm going to buy an Apple TV, because while I think the iPod is great for catching up on TV shows during my bus commute, I really don't view it as practical for viewing movies. Though I am going to wait a bit to see how quickly Apple expands the HD rental offerings.

HD podcasts do not transfer over to the iPod Touch. They are playable on the computer and the AppleTV.

1) Because you want it doesn't mean Apple should bend over backwards to satisfy your needs.

2) Your idea doesn't "eliminate the player", but merely moves it someplace elese, that most would find inconvenient. Id est, can you really see people popping DVD into their computer in the upstairs' den just to to watch it in thei down stairs living room when their is an excellent chance they have a DVD player next to the TV? How effective would it be to peruse a DVD with an IR remote to the AppleTV to the router to the Mac/PC. What a pain in the ass!

3) Talk with the movie studios about why they don't their movies copied. Talk to them about all the new DRM in HD optical media. You are a fool if you think you should be able to do it because your CD is shiny round disc, too. They must be the same! They have difference laws governing them and very, very different dynamics of how the media is utilized.

I'm the fool yet you're the one who is totally satisfied with AppleTV as is and wants to keep spending money into the empty jukebox that Steve has sold you?

You have absolutely no common sense. Yes, I pay for media for my AppleTV, just as people pay for media for DVD players, and jsut like people paid for media for their VHS players. I also pay to go to the movies and then buy a large popcorn and soda because I can.

I agree with solipsism, you CAN view your DVD movies on aTV by ripping them. You don't have to pay anything. If you choose, you can rent content, which is an entirely sensible thing to do. But it's not mandatory. Apple is offering an alternative to DVD rental, which I think is the ultimate goal.

In the end, I think for now the people who are going to stick with the disk formats are either those who want to pay little to nothing (Torrents, Netflix, Redbox devotees) for DVDs, or those cinephiles who really want the 1080p resolution that BR provides. But prices will eventually come down, and resolutions eventually will go up. This is another step. And a great one, in my opinion.

It would be nice if you could hook up that small optical drive from the MacBook Air to your Apple TV......

That's ridiculous. A DVD or CD or VHS machine play media specifically design for them and it's a given when you purchase it. The AppleTV according to your rationale should be renamed the iTunes Digital Jukebox.
Great- I'm glad you so happy with the AppleTV as a conduit to buy iTunes media. But you know what , there are very few of you and that's why it hasn't sold well. Keep spending.

Maybe it's just the movies I browsed through, but it seems just about every rental is the fullscreen version and not widescreen? Anyone else notice that? I sincerely hope that's not the case, otherwise, I doubt I would ever rent a movie through iTunes.

How much do you want to bet that the new portable superdrive (which uses USB) will somehow find it's way next to the aTV?

[woops... S10 beat me to it!]

A DVD or CD or VHS is a conduit for DVDs or CDs or VHS tapes. What is the difference? You still have to get the media from somewhere. Or are you under the assumption that you can ONLY use it which media purchased from the iTS. Are you one of those people that think the iPod only plays music from the iTS, too? You are about as obtuse as they come.

I don't think either in either of those terms and you're much too sensitive to discus this any further. You obviously haven't been reading what I and others have been saying and are completely satisfied with whatever Apple gives/sells you (and that's fine) so there is no further room for discussion.

I've used just about every Media Extender that was available in N. America. The AppleTV is the only one that would seamlessly stream any of my stored media. Perhaps you should understand through usage before making assumptions. A little empirical data goes a long way in the tech industry.

I think you're stretching things a bit, but then you have been doing that for some time. They did add features that bring no money to Apple, you can fetch video (and HD!) and audio podcasts through the Apple TV, and you can watch Flikr photo streams.

I'm still puzzled how you think streaming from a DVD drive in another room is worthwhile. That's less convenient than just using a DVD player that's probably already at your TV right now. That's just making things harder than it has to be.

Then you had better hope that BD never goes away, because once downloads are all there is, that option will be gone forever.

I'd still like to know where the rental movies are in iTunes. All I can see are the new ones on the front page, and I can click to see all of them--and there aren't very many. Is that all there is? Just a couple dozen? Obviously all the movie rentals are new at the moment, but where is the general area for rental movies? If I browse or search for movies, none of them are rentals.

Even with 20 years of formal education, I find the iTunes interface needlessly cluttered and confusing. Does Apple have a podcast on how to use it?

As I just said to bsenka, once disks go away, those options will go away with them.

I'm not saying I like the idea either, but we're going to have to get used it.

It's very possible that at some point in the future, you won't "own" any content, but like a concert, every time you want to hear or see it, you will have to pay a fee.

That's the way things are going.

Am I crazy? I've just rewatched the keynote section on aTV and the part with Jobs moving a movie file from aTV to another device is gone. Has it been edited out?

The only reason why Apple has only sold an estimated 600,000 ATv's through the end of December, is lack of content. Now that they will be having content, they will sell more.

Thr reason why Apple lowered the price is the razor and the handle thing.

This service will do very well, even though it isn't prefect.

Let's get that out of the way, shall we?

It isn't perfect!

But, it's much better than it was before. Still, people have bought vastly more Tv shows and movies on iTnbes than from all the other download companies put together.

93% was the number being bandied around! That's despite Apple only having a few hundred films to sell vs thousands from everyone else.

With rentals this will be even better. Unless a price war begins, itunes will crush the competition. Netflix has already reacted, but it will not help.

I happen to like disks, both movie and music, but if those choices will be taken away over time, and they will, we will have no choice.

I like "razor and handle" better than "razor and blade" business model. Mentally, I consider the razor to be the blade.

Me too.

[QUOTE=mrpiddly;1199383]why would you want to? Most people have some device hooked up to their tv that supports dvd playback.
QUOTE]

But that's kind of the problem...too many things already hooked up to the TV. If I want to add AppleTV (and I'd like to), I need to take something away. Both because of input limitations, shelf space, convenience of not constantly switching inputs, etc. I'd gladly get rid of my DVD player if AppleTV could play my DVDs (directly, via remote disc, ripping, etc). Just like I got rid of my CD player and replaced it with an Airport Express after ripping all my CDs into iTunes. Until then, the DVD player stays put and there will be no Apple TV for me.

If you are saying that the appleTV is the handle and the content is the razor,
I hope Apple Inc finds a way to increase its margins on selling content. Right
now content sales is probably the lowest margin item in Apple's list. A
strategy that emphasized that, rather than higher margined hardware
sales, would be a departure from what they have done in the past.

If you are saying that a "halo effect" will eventually raise hardware sales,
then I think the handle and razor analogy is off.

A more flexible solution would be nice. But if that's the only thing the studios would agree to, apple doesn't have much choice. Are there any download rental systems that allow keeping it for more than 24 hours?


You're jumping to some big conclusions there. Do you really think that the 720p from iTunes won't look visibly better than DVD quality?

Have there been any reports online actually doing an A/B comparison between DVD and iTunes (and even bluray) of the same material?


And you don't have to buy DVD's either...there's always shoplifting!



That's simply not true. The upgrade adds 5.1 surround support, so assuming handbrake is able to rip that from DVD's, it adds the ability for people to watch ripped DVD content without losing surround sound. Sure, the update doesn't add ripping or streaming a disc from a computer, but it still adds VERY useful features.


1 Looks like yes, HD only from aTV.
2 Yes.
3 No, because iPods can't play HD content, not even with component out.
4 There has always been an HD codec for aTV, and HD handbrake rips have been possible already. The only thing that has changed with HD playback is the addition of 5.1 surround - it could do 720p before and that hasn't changed.

I think that all involved will be making more profit on rentals. Apple will be renting hundreds of millions of movies over time. Perhaps hundreds of millions around the world each year, eventually. They also won't be losing money on the handle. They never do. They are not MS or Sony in that regard. They probably are accepting lower margins, but they will make a profit.

As for the halo effect, no, I wasn't thinking about that, but it will be there.

I read an article that said that 31% of Americans now own at least one Apple product. That's amazing! That number is up from the low 20's a year ago.

Every product that Apple sells can contribute to the halo effect. This is not some magical phenomenon, but simple reality. If one likes a product, one is more likely to buy another from the same company.

That's one reason some have used the term "Apple ecology". Or "iPod ecology".

Third parties will step up to make these products more interesting. Keyboards for the ATV. Extra HDD's, SDK usable controller software for the iTouch and iPhone, etc.

This ties it all together.

I have friends in the high end audio industry where I once was involved. Most of them have moved from just making one component in a system, to having "turnkey" systems because of customer demand. Apple is moving to that model as well.

I fully expect, as do some industry people, that Apple will have its own Tv's and other components at some point.

I very definitely see people wanting an Apple "turnkey system, and Apple is better situated to deliver it than anyone else, though others are trying.

This is a great improvement for aTV, and covers many of the issues holding it back. I'm still on the fence, but much more open to actually buying one now (mainly I just don't have an HDTV yet). The 24 hour thing isn't great, but with the 30 days of flexibility when to start watching, it's more palatable.

Some things I still see as issues:

1 HD rentals, but no HD sales - seems like rentals and aTV sales will go up, but who wants to buy a SD copy of a movie to watch on an HDTV connected to an HD compatible playback box? Hopefully we'll see HD content for sale soon, otherwise it seems like a pretty glaring omission. HD versions of TV shows fall under this, not a big deal for some shows, but for things like LOST I'd want to get an HD version if I'm paying cash to watch.
2 No portability between aTV and iPod rentals - not a huge deal since you only have the file for 24 hours, but still odd. And once they start selling HD content, they'll have to address that, will it also include a copy at iPod resolution for the price?
3 No 1080i or p. I don't expect apple to sell/rent material at that resolution (yet) but I'd be much more comfortable buying a box knowing the hardware could handle 1080p.
4 Any word on things like closed captioning?

Most of this will come with time. Over the years, I've seen many complaints about most advances. They didn't have this, or that, or the quality was poor, etc.

That gets fixed. Look to where iTunes, and other companies, music is going. Complaints about DRM. People sying they'll never buy it with DRM (though most people really couldn't care less). Well, DRM is quickly going the way of the Dodo, even if Apple is being left out of it for now, a Macworld disappointment.

Then there's the quality issue. 128Kb/s is really terrible, if you want to listen on a good system. 256 is much better, but is not there yet. But, over time, I'm willing to bet that it does get even better. 320Kb/s, then eventually, some form of lossless compression.

Tv was, at first, on really small poor quality B/W sets that literally cost a fortune. But that didn't stop it. Then the questin of color came up.

The point is that all of these concerns will be addressed. but first, the industry has to sort out the more pressing problems.

A little patience is called for.

As for the using of files bought over the ATv. Except for HD, the files will be automatically synced with your computer after they're downloaded, and will be available there, or on your iPod, if it is of the current generation.