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Answer to Why no ACDs

post #1 of 17
1/19/08 at 9:18am
Thread Starter 
Well its actually pretty easy answer if you research it and think about it

Well what do we need for new ACDs, well we need displays that have higher resolution which are slowly coming out (see CES)
So that is partially solved

We need to have GPUs that can handle the resolution (well we do) see Mac Pro running 8 30" ACDs at 2560 x 1600

Well next we need a way to connect the display with the computer/GPU
Well we have Dual Link DVI that maxes out at 2560 x 1600

That is the problem, now there are also some new connectors HDMI 1.3b Type A (or Single Link) and DisplayPort 1.1 that can do 2560 x 1600, but that does not really help they are around 10 Gbit/s

That is where HDMI 1.3b Type B (or Dual Link) and DisplayPort 2.0 (or Dual Link) (which has yet to be ratified but is expected for around Q1 2008) come into play
With about 20 Gbit/s they can power those giant displays we want

But nobody makes these connectors and one of them isn't even ratified as a standard

Yet there is also one other problem, we need the GPUs or computers to also support DisplayPort (which is to replace DVI and VGA, NOTE: HDMI is for the living room while DisplayPort is designed to replace the internal (laptop: LVDS) and external display connectors)

Well Intel will release support for these ports in the upcoming Intel Montevina platform which is to be released around May


This is perfect b/c it lets apple revamp the MacBook Pro line to be smaller because the largest thing on the side is the DVI (note apple will probably also switch everything else to DisplayPort, they won't create another propietary standard like ADC as it will be superseded by DisplayPort) (for instance see the Micro DVI on the MBA, it will probably get a DisplayPort port as it is the same size)


So in May or WWDC expect to see DisplayPort (which with a very small connector is backwards compatible with any and all other connectors) on everything very soon


This will allow for giant resolution displays and real updates to the ACDs
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post #2 of 17
1/19/08 at 12:21pm
What about a refreshed enclosure, or simply a price adjustment?
OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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post #3 of 17
1/19/08 at 1:58pm
So people are going to start asking if their computer has a "DisplayPort port" on the side?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #4 of 17
1/19/08 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by welcomb View Post

Well its actually pretty easy answer if you research it and think about it....

So the new Mac Pros will have to get new video cards in order to run your new ACDs????

And that will happen in 3 -4 months????

I don't think so.

Apple may well offer what you propose next year sometime, but I would be surprised if it happened this year. I expect something more inline with the new NEC display demo'ed at Macworld this past week. It may have the same resolution as the ACD does currently, but everything else is a substantial upgrade. And it doesn't make Apple's current flagship product obsolete within 3 months of announcing it.
"Too much of a good thing is great." Mae West
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"Too much of a good thing is great." Mae West
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post #5 of 17
1/19/08 at 5:51pm
Thread Starter 
well actually apple has switched connectors many times leaving ppl in the dust
from vga to dvi and from dvi to adc (Apple display connector) for a while
and the reason y they did not update it now is that it would have to be system wide (on all their computers) and intel does not yet support it (so the macbooks and mbas) and the cpus would not be able to use it
2nd they have not released it yet as i said above because displayport 2.0 isnt finalized (displayport 1.1 - current is barely better than Dual Link Digital DVI)
So either WWDC 2008 or maybe latest MacWorld 2009 (so as everyone else in the industry would also show their products using it at CES 2009)
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post #6 of 17
1/19/08 at 7:18pm
I can see it happening at MWSF 09, but not before. Apple is not going to obsolete the Mac Pro after a few months.
"Too much of a good thing is great." Mae West
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"Too much of a good thing is great." Mae West
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post #7 of 17
1/20/08 at 8:06am
I have two answers on why we don’t have new ACDs. Both are one hell of a speculation …


First one – PR. You know Apple is about PR moves, it is believed that new windows mobile 7 screenshots leaked thanks to apple, to sap the WM6 based market (you’re not likely going to by outdated software aren’t you…). So what apple, and any other company wants is to be on the news all year long, that is why we have Mac Pro during CES, not so much during last week. So I believe we will see it till April.

Second one is that if I’m not mistaken Apple actually uses some one’s else matrixes for displays. In other words if apple was to release new displays we would see other products based on the same technology from lets say Samsung or whom ever from, and we don’t see much of updates except for NEC and EIZO (no connection), so the second version is that technology is not ready yet…
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post #8 of 17
1/20/08 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by takemura View Post

Second one is that if I’m not mistaken Apple actually uses some one’s else matrixes for displays. In other words if apple was to release new displays we would see other products based on the same technology from lets say Samsung or whom ever from, and we don’t see much of updates except for NEC and EIZO (no connection), so the second version is that technology is not ready yet…

Hmm, is it Samsung that makes Apple's displays for the ACD?

That is a good point though. We need to keep an eye out for new display panel announcements. I agree that it is unlikely that we will see Apple unveil new ACDs with old panel tech.

Anyone know who makes the panels for the ACDs?
"Too much of a good thing is great." Mae West
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"Too much of a good thing is great." Mae West
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post #9 of 17
1/20/08 at 9:23am
wikipedia says:

Currently LG.-Philips produces the LCD panel used by the Cinema Displays
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post #10 of 17
1/20/08 at 9:34am
So if we follow my second version (I myself like to believe that apple tries to make more announcements during the whole year time to attract attention as this promises me a chance to get a new apple display before April), though the second version means that if apple was to release an LED backlight displays with some improvements we would se the similar products released or may be announced for lets say late 2008 by its competitors...
And we have nothing from competitors so far, I meant NEC/EIZO both release new 30 inches panels with in something this month but, they aren’t something very big, on the other hand it would be quite stupid to release upgraded version of ACD without LED or anything apple is waiting for, and have competitors releasing this very feature they wouldn’t have only few months later.

Still, I feel that displays are to be upgraded, and apple knows it, we’ll see it this year. AND I HOPE before April, damn you apple! And I hope for quality and performance second to none, coz the only thing I don’t like about Eizo / Nec is design.
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post #11 of 17
1/20/08 at 4:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by takemura View Post

So if we follow my second version (I myself like to believe that apple tries to make more announcements during the whole year time to attract attention as this promises me a chance to get a new apple display before April), though the second version means that if apple was to release an LED backlight displays with some improvements we would se the similar products released or may be announced for lets say late 2008 by its competitors...
And we have nothing from competitors so far, I meant NEC/EIZO both release new 30 inches panels with in something this month but, they arent something very big, on the other hand it would be quite stupid to release upgraded version of ACD without LED or anything apple is waiting for, and have competitors releasing this very feature they wouldnt have only few months later.

Still, I feel that displays are to be upgraded, and apple knows it, well see it this year. AND I HOPE before April, damn you apple! And I hope for quality and performance second to none, coz the only thing I dont like about Eizo / Nec is design.

I don't know Takemura. As I understand it LED-backlighting is every expensive and unlikely to turn up in larger displays for quite awhile.

Although that is a dramatic improvement, there are other improvements that are appealing too. For instance the NEC display boasts 102% of NSTC and 98% Adobe RGB color gamuts with a 1000:1 contrast ratio. These offer impressive color reproduction capabilities for those of us who work in color managed environments. And that is something I have always respected ACDs for.

So there are innovations, albeit evolutionary ones, that could be brought out now.

I agree that Apple has started to pay more attention to keeping their name in the news. I also think we will see product announcements throughout the year, as opposed to only at shows and Apple events like WWDC.
"Too much of a good thing is great." Mae West
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"Too much of a good thing is great." Mae West
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post #12 of 17
1/21/08 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by takemura View Post

<snip>... And I hope for quality and performance second to none, coz the only thing I dont like about Eizo / Nec is design.

If you were going with Eizo, which model(s) would you consider?
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post #13 of 17
1/21/08 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by welcomb View Post

Well its actually pretty easy answer if you research it and think about it
[snip]

Yeah, the connector matters. But I think the reason no standard exists is because displays needing higher resolution are prohibitively expensive.

A high-enough bandwidth interconnect isn't even a significant technological hurdle. Finding customers that can afford a display that requires it? That's a problem. Even harder... getting industry-wide consensus and adoption.
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post #14 of 17
1/21/08 at 8:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by da2357 View Post

If you were going with Eizo, which model(s) would you consider?

The first thing i need is color reproduction and quality so it would be ColorEdge line:
ColorEdge CG241W is a very nice thing 24.1', for those who need 30' they have ColorEdge CG301W but it is too pricey, and i wouldn't go for FlexScan (say for exmp FlexScan SX3031W-H ) just because there is a 30' display in their line with reasonable price. ColorEdge are the best, but design...
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post #15 of 17
1/22/08 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by takemura View Post

The first thing i need is color reproduction and quality so it would be ColorEdge line: ColorEdge CG241W is a very nice thing 24.1', for those who need 30' they have ColorEdge CG301W but it is too pricey, and i wouldn't go for FlexScan (say for exmp FlexScan SX3031W-H ) just because there is a 30' display in their line with reasonable price. ColorEdge are the best, but design...

I don't do video or photography for a living, just programming... but like to watch an occasional movie... so I'm looking for a 24" with 1920x1200. I agree that the ColorEdge CG241W is a great LCD, but out of my price-range (as are the 30" models)--but the FlexScan S2411W is in my range. In looking at the manual for the S2411W, it indicates Mac resolutions up to 1280x960/VESA up to 1920x1200. Forgive my being a newbie to LCDs, but does this mean that all I can get with the S2411W connected to a Mac is 1280x960?
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post #16 of 17
1/23/08 at 1:15am
2 da2357: I didn't find it, S2411W the same way as HD2411 etc, has 1920x1200 as native resolution, everything else depends on your video card.
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post #17 of 17
1/24/08 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by takemura View Post

2 da2357: I didn't find it, S2411W the same way as HD2411 etc, has 1920x1200 as native resolution, everything else depends on your video card.

To takemura, yes, the S2411W is quite similar to the HD2411. I'll be getting a Mac Pro w/the 512MB NVidia GeForce 8800 GT, so the card should handle it fine. I'm going to be ordering my Mac Pro later and since it's going to take several weeks (due to this NVidia card), I'll hold off on ordering an LCD just in case Apple does release a new ACD. If they don't, I'm just going to get that Eizo S2411W instead.
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