or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac OS X › Nearly 100 fixes planned for Apple's second Leopard update
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Nearly 100 fixes planned for Apple's second Leopard update - Page 2

post #41 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I feel bad for you people and all your problems.

I'm still not updated. Running 10.4.11... looks like I made the right decision.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #42 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by da2357 View Post

I agree with 'coolfactor' that your statements are generalizations. I've been using Leopard for day-to-day work and have found it very usable and stable. Any comparison with Vista is unwarranted unless you're prepared to list out all your issues with Leopard, which is the only way you can give your statements any credibility.

I also have to agree. I have found 10.5.1 of Leopard to be very stable so far. It has never crashed and only 1 or 2 thrid party programs have crashed but it's very rare when they do. Everyone's experience is different but then again everyone's hardware is very different as well.

I don't have the Seagate HD that was giving a lot of people trouble recently and my MacBook has the new Santa Rosa architecture with 4GB of memory.
Switching From Windows on Nov. 30th 2007
-------------------------------------
MacBook Pro 13" 2011
Reply
Switching From Windows on Nov. 30th 2007
-------------------------------------
MacBook Pro 13" 2011
Reply
post #43 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitaldoc View Post

****Please consider fixing this, too****

This long-standing bug persists from inception in 10.4.10 into 10.5.1. Often characterized as a bug only on Intel Macs, I can assure all that my dual 867 MHz MDD is afflicted, too. Major symptoms: When attempting to read a compact flash card in either of two different card readers, the system will mount the card as a drive and allow navigation to the folder that contains images (Raw or JPG - does not matter). System shows several thumbnail images, but then freezes. Cannot restart finder or do anything except a hard system shut-down.

Attempts to open folder from Photoshop file dialog fails similarly.

Hope post here is more effective than post on Apple forums.

Steve

Even more effective: use Apple's bug reporter.

You'll need to sign up as a developer first, but there's a free option. I've (mostly) had good results with reporting bugs this way provided they were reproducible.

I've seen a similar but not as severe problem on a USB stick but I suspect in that case it was the USB stick at fault, because it didn't work that well on non-Mac systems either. Have you tried other tricks to get control back, like remove the device, then add another USB device to get the USB bus to reconfigure?

On other complaints...

When I first switched to 10.4, I had a ridiculous number of crashes. It eventually turned out that my iMac (G5) had a hardware fault. I don't know if it was coincidence, or whether a major new release exercised the hardware differently and exposed the fault, but the latter possibility suggests to me that anyone having an unusual number of problems with a major new release should get the hardware checked (as well as the usual things like trying a clean install, in case some hack or whatever extra you installed and since forgot is incompatible).

I haven't gone to 10.5 yet because (a) I am waiting for the complaints to subside with newer releases and (b) a few of my Adobe CS3 applications need upgrades.

So far the level of complaints doesn't seem that high to me for a major release though anything closer to zero would obviously be good.

Philip Machanick creator of Opinionations and Green Grahamstown
Department of Computer Science, Rhodes University, South Africa

Reply

Philip Machanick creator of Opinionations and Green Grahamstown
Department of Computer Science, Rhodes University, South Africa

Reply
post #44 of 104
better it be released later than it be buggy and flaky
iMac 24" 2.4ghz, 1GB Ram, 250GB, OSX 10.5
Reply
iMac 24" 2.4ghz, 1GB Ram, 250GB, OSX 10.5
Reply
post #45 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I'm still not updated. Running 10.4.11... looks like I made the right decision.

No issues with it? I know of a few people with issues that occurred after the x.x.11 update.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #46 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post

Generalization. Leopard seems pretty darn solid to me. Your experience may be different, but don't include me in your conclusion of Leopard. It's a very high-quality product. Not beta.

Released ultra- buggy. More so than any other Mac OS release. It's a shame it took a back seat to the iPhone- release date, bugginess, etc.
post #47 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I feel bad for you people and all your problems.

ARe you Steve Jobs?
post #48 of 104
What happened to the rumors that Apple was overhauling Leopard for SSE4 instructions? Apparently performance increases using SSE4 are big. Going forward, all the new Mac products coming out would get big performance increases and be another reason for people to buy new Macs. God, think about how fast Leopard runs with old hardware and the new iMacs are zippy.
post #49 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

i hear they are fixing memory leaks with Rosatta (required by G5's) so I wouldn't be surprised.

Other way around there, my friend. Rosetta is an intermediary to get PowerPC code to run on the Intel machines. The code runs natively on G4s and G5s.
post #50 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Released ultra- buggy. More so than any other Mac OS release. It's a shame it took a back seat to the iPhone- release date, bugginess, etc.

The iPhone runs 10.5. It never took a back-seat, just a side-seat. The work done for the iPhone benefited Leopard greatly.
post #51 of 104
What has happened to AI? It's still the best forum around by a long shot but it's not the same place. I miss Wilco. I honestly mean that, too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

ARe you Steve Jobs?

Always trying to rankle me, teckturd. You'll find that I don't care enough to be niggled as my elitist Mac ego is too self absorbed to be concerned with what others think about me. Especially on an internet forum. But if it makes you feel better then by all means keep it up.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #52 of 104
As a developer myself, I understand just how challenging developing something like OS X can be. It is completely unrealistic for anyone to expect the OS to be "bug-free". There are always going to be bugs, because it's not a black and white situation. Bugs can take many forms - syntax errors, logic errors (drawing the wrong conclusion), GIGO errors (garbage-in, garbage-out), and so on. Then there are other issues related around memory leaks, extra code needed for security, and so on. It's a never-ended battle to achieve the "perfect" design, and even then, it's constantly evolving as they add new features, enhance existing features, etc.

If they waited until they felt OS X was "perfect", we'd never see that day.

I suspect people that are having "constant crashing", and other such severe problems with 10.5 more likely have hardware issues or have cluttered up their systems with third-party software that are creating conflicts.
post #53 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbansprawl View Post

What happened to the rumors that Apple was overhauling Leopard for SSE4 instructions? Apparently performance increases using SSE4 are big. Going forward, all the new Mac products coming out would get big performance increases and be another reason for people to buy new Macs. God, think about how fast Leopard runs with old hardware and the new iMacs are zippy.

I have read nothing about it anywhere. Can low-level code like that be pumped into the software without the need for beta-testers? Would they even know if the code was there if they weren't using a new Mac Pro?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #54 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

No issues with it? I know of a few people with issues that occurred after the x.x.11 update.

I think things are running a little bit slower, but I can't pinpoint the slowdown to anything in particular.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #55 of 104
It's looking like all Intel Macs will be able to NetBoot with the 10.5.2 update. Though I seriously doubt that Apple will update OpenFirmware to enable PPC Macs this same functionality.

From one screenshot of the upcoming update which had an option to turn on optical disc sharing from the Sharing Preferences pane, it appears you won't need the RemoteDisc installation CD so long as you are running 10.5.2 or later.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #56 of 104
I really hope Apple fixes the graphics problems with WoW on 10.5

Especially on PPC machines using nVidia cards like the 6800 Ultra.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...86740840&sid=1
post #57 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsNly View Post

I hope they fix crashing in all programs

and Disk Utility It doesn't work at all!

Make sure you are not trying to launch the Tiger version of the programs that are crashing (especially Disk Utility). Use Spotlight to search for Disk Utility and see if you have more that one version; I did. Find the folder inside the Applications Folder created by Leopard and try launching them. If it works, trash the folder with the Tiger versios AND any aliases (like in the Dock).
post #58 of 104
Make sure you are not trying to launch the Tiger version left behind by Archive and Install. Use Spotlight to seach for Disk Utility. I'll bet you have two, one that won't launch and one that will (inside the Applications>Utilities folder created by Leopard).
post #59 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I strongly recommend anyone with strange problems to run Font Book and validate all fonts in both user and main Libraries. Remove all that show up with yellow and red flags. Leopard seems to be way more picky about fonts and doing this stopped numerous problems I had with applications from both Adobe and also iLife and iWorks.

Excellent advice, digitalclips!
post #60 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by machei View Post

I just started using Time Machine this weekend, and since I have, the Mac won't stay asleep when I put it to sleep... even if the Time Machine drive is off. I hope that's a fixed issue in this one. Very little point in having a sleep feature if the machine's got insomnia.

You might try InsomniaX, it was originally designed to keep the macbook awake, but there is a "sleep system" option that might override the OS X control as it does for the reverse process. Worth a shot...

And as to people who complain about hierarchical folders missing, you can create an alias of a folder and put it in the dock for this to work if 10.5.2 doesn't fix this, or if you NEED it now. I know it's a bit of a hassle, but the alternative is to complain and do nothing about it for a while.
Serving humanity one sarcastic comment at a time.
Reply
Serving humanity one sarcastic comment at a time.
Reply
post #61 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

When marketing works more closely with Engineering and can have better timeline projections that also keep the interest in Wall Street at an optimum level.

When that happens, Wall street might mature and realise that shipping a quality product which retains customers for the long term is a more sensible plan than ramming something out that might end up losing customers in the long run. But then again, when has Wall street ever been concerned about the long term?
post #62 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Released ultra- buggy. More so than any other Mac OS release. It's a shame it took a back seat to the iPhone- release date, bugginess, etc.

Really? Then why are 81% of users "very satisfied"?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #63 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post

I suspect people that are having "constant crashing", and other such severe problems with 10.5 more likely have hardware issues or have cluttered up their systems with third-party software that are creating conflicts.

That's a big one. These forums are populated with people who like to hack their systems with 50 third party hacks - and then complain when a system upgrade breaks something.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #64 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Always trying to rankle me, teckturd. You'll find that I don't care enough to be niggled as my elitist Mac ego is too self absorbed to be concerned with what others think about me. Especially on an internet forum. But if it makes you feel better then by all means keep it up.

C'mon, that should be tecktard, not teckturd. Get your FSJ on and get with it solipsism.

"Too much of a good thing is great." Mae West
Reply
"Too much of a good thing is great." Mae West
Reply
post #65 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


Always trying to rankle me, teckturd. You'll find that I don't care enough to be niggled as my elitist Mac ego is too self absorbed to be concerned with what others think about me. Especially on an internet forum. But if it makes you feel better then by all means keep it up.

Wagh! Sloppyism is calling me names!!
post #66 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Released ultra- buggy. More so than any other Mac OS release. It's a shame it took a back seat to the iPhone- release date, bugginess, etc.

Odd, I just upgraded to 10.5.1 over the weekend, and I'm really fricking impressed.

Perfect? No. I've found a couple of repeatable graphics redraw errors - one buffering problem, and one case of a HUD window not getting properly placed on a visibility stack for hiding and Expose. I've reported them to Apple through the proper channels. (You *do* do that, right? I mean, I shouldn't even be bothering to ask if you do that, right?)

But 'ultra-buggy'? Ha. 'than any other Mac OS release'?? What are you, a new switcher?? Yeesh.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
Reply
post #67 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Released ultra- buggy. More so than any other Mac OS release. It's a shame it took a back seat to the iPhone- release date, bugginess, etc.

Really, based on the minimum number of complaints I would say that 10.5 has been a very successful and relatively error free release.

I am currently running 10.4.11 and am about to upgrade to 10.5. I waited and listened to the screams from the early adopters. And they have been very quiet and minor with this release and I feel free to go ahead and update. -- And the screams from the past has been very loud and vocal. I can even remember a release that Apple pulled back within 24 hours because it was so bad.
What goes online stays online. What is online will become public.
Reply
What goes online stays online. What is online will become public.
Reply
post #68 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitaldoc View Post

****Please consider fixing this, too****

This long-standing bug persists from inception in 10.4.10 into 10.5.1. Often characterized as a bug only on Intel Macs, I can assure all that my dual 867 MHz MDD is afflicted, too. Major symptoms: When attempting to read a compact flash card in either of two different card readers, the system will mount the card as a drive and allow navigation to the folder that contains images (Raw or JPG - does not matter). System shows several thumbnail images, but then freezes. Cannot restart finder or do anything except a hard system shut-down.

Attempts to open folder from Photoshop file dialog fails similarly.

Hope post here is more effective than post on Apple forums.

Steve

I've never had problems either reading or writing to Flashcards of any type.

I read CF cards from my Canon 5D several times a week, and it has always been fine.
post #69 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post

Odd, I just upgraded to 10.5.1 over the weekend, and I'm really fricking impressed.

Perfect? No. I've found a couple of repeatable graphics redraw errors - one buffering problem, and one case of a HUD window not getting properly placed on a visibility stack for hiding and Expose. I've reported them to Apple through the proper channels. (You *do* do that, right? I mean, I shouldn't even be bothering to ask if you do that, right?)

But 'ultra-buggy'? Ha. 'than any other Mac OS release'?? What are you, a new switcher?? Yeesh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aresee View Post

Really, based on the minimum number of complaints I would say that 10.5 has been a very successful and relatively error free release.

I am currently running 10.4.11 and am about to upgrade to 10.5. I waited and listened to the screams from the early adopters. And they have been very quiet and minor with this release and I feel free to go ahead and update. -- And the screams from the past has been very loud and vocal. I can even remember a release that Apple pulled back within 24 hours because it was so bad.

In all honesty I did have have more issues with 10.5.0 than I did with 10.2.0, 10.3.0 and 10.4.0, OS X 10.1.0 was much "buggier" but that was still very early in OS X's development. Compared to other Operating Systems I've used during their early stages 10.5.0 was quite good and it wasn't like there were severe memory leaks and kernel panics going on, just some annoying quirkiness.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #70 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I have read nothing about it anywhere. Can low-level code like that be pumped into the software without the need for beta-testers? Would they even know if the code was there if they weren't using a new Mac Pro?

I'm not so sure the OS will benefit so much from SSE4, but programs run in it will, if they're rewritten slightly.
post #71 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by donebylee View Post

C'mon, that should be tecktard, not teckturd. Get your FSJ on and get with it solipsism.


Tecktard, where Do I remember that one from?
post #72 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

Both 10.5.1 and 10.5.2 are solid! very impressive in my experience.

However apple should call their new "Smart Folders" Dumb Folders because they only can display "name" "Kind" and "Last Opened" ....


Last Opened??? who cares?

This is my pet-peeve for Leopard, and I mention it each time that there are talks of an update. Search results are awfully limited compared to Tiger, you can't add columns, and like you mentioned the default column are mostly useless.

Another feature that would need some fixes, is Spaces. I've seen some weird things happening with Spaces. For example, when I double-clicked on a Quicktime movie, it opened in QT player, then instantly switched back to the Finder. It did that for a few days (even with a restart) and now it stopped...

Another bug that often happens in Leopard, and I'm pretty sure that's related to Spaces, is that when you open a document from the Finder, its window will appear -behind- other windows of the target app, instead of in front, and that's not just with QT player.

Aside from these, my experience with 10.5 has been very satisfying.
post #73 of 104
Leopard 10.5.0 had several small but deadly bugs. Within 3 weeks, Apple had corrected them. Those were 3 terrible weeks.

10.5.1 seems pretty spiffy. Not perfect but quite good. 10.5.2 will be the real deal. Currently, 10.4.11 is unbeatable for mission critical machines. Soon, 10.5 may be that good but not yet.
post #74 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by aresee View Post

Really, based on the minimum number of complaints I would say that 10.5 has been a very successful and relatively error free release.

I am currently running 10.4.11 and am about to upgrade to 10.5. I waited and listened to the screams from the early adopters. And they have been very quiet and minor with this release and I feel free to go ahead and update. -- And the screams from the past has been very loud and vocal. I can even remember a release that Apple pulled back within 24 hours because it was so bad.


That's fascinating. Maybe if you actually did use 10.5.0, you would know what an unbaked pie that thing was. But since you didn't, maybe you will not be the best judge. That is OK and I appreciate that you gave us your perspective honestly. You were wise to keep 10.4.

But that is OK. Apple is very good at squashing bugs promptly. They go above and beyond to create an OS that is very stable and very nice. Unlike some here, I do not fault Apple for their steps in creating the world's best OS, 10.5.

The 90-day rule seems to be a good one. 10.5 is going to turn 90 days old soon.
post #75 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

Leopard 10.5.0 had several small but deadly bugs. Within 3 weeks, Apple had corrected them. Those were 3 terrible weeks.

10.5.1 seems pretty spiffy. Not perfect but quite good. 10.5.2 will be the real deal. Currently, 10.4.11 is unbeatable for mission critical machines. Soon, 10.5 may be that good but not yet.

What were those three deadly bugs?

I've seen some minor ones, and a few errors of omission, but nothing deadly.
post #76 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik View Post

That's fascinating. Maybe if you actually did use 10.5.0, you would know what an unbaked pie that thing was. But since you didn't, maybe you will not be the best judge. That is OK and I appreciate that you gave us your perspective honestly. You were wise to keep 10.4.

But that is OK. Apple is very good at squashing bugs promptly. They go above and beyond to create an OS that is very stable and very nice. Unlike some here, I do not fault Apple for their steps in creating the world's best OS, 10.5.

The 90-day rule seems to be a good one. 10.5 is going to turn 90 days old soon.

You're overdoing it.
post #77 of 104
My understanding is the number of fixes is closer a thousand specifically. Apple in the past, on almost every .x release has dozens if not hundreds of unlisted changes that are documented internally, but not externally. All I know is I've talked to a couple engineers I know at Apple and they won't tell me anything (good for them) except that the number of fixes marked as fixed in Radar is far higher than this.
post #78 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akac View Post

My understanding is the number of fixes is closer a thousand specifically. Apple in the past, on almost every .x release has dozens if not hundreds of unlisted changes that are documented internally, but not externally. All I know is I've talked to a couple engineers I know at Apple and they won't tell me anything (good for them) except that the number of fixes marked as fixed in Radar is far higher than this.

So instead of Apple releasing "Dock" as an app that was tweaked they internally list every specific code change and reason?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #79 of 104
I think its more than that. Sure there is some of that, but if you read the actual KB articles Apple posts they are pretty specific a lot of times. In the past we've seen many times a change that we could tell in a 10.4.x release that never showed up in the release notes. New drivers. Or bugs fixed that some people saw. Or app developers getting notices that their bug was fixed - but it wasn't covered by any of the KB articles notes.
post #80 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You're overdoing it.

Overdoing what, drugs? Not lately, but 10.5.0 had several problems I can mention such as (1) the "data loss" problem, which struck my brother; (2) MacBook "stuck" problem which Apple corrected via Firmware (computers are hard to use when they're stuck); (3) poor quality installer that wiped a lot of people's drives. A lot of people lost a lot of data because of 10.5.0. It was hairy.

When my brother called Apple, the tech said "they released this thing WAY too early" and according to him/her, the data loss problem was wreaking havoc across the nation. But why would we hear about that? There is no system by which we would know. Only Apple really knows how many calls they got.

They stayed up some very late nights to get 10.5.1 as quick as they did. Their lives depended on it pretty much. Now, everything is stable and decent.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Mac OS X
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac OS X › Nearly 100 fixes planned for Apple's second Leopard update