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I may have discovered the best solution of all for Copy & Paste, and it's simple!

post #1 of 41
Thread Starter 
There was a funny video created last year that demoed a 'proof of concept' iPhone copy & paste system. About 2-3 weeks before that video was published I had started a thread here describing what I thought would be a good UI for copy & paste (delete, cut) etc. I basically said something similar to what happened in that video - only in my version the second finger was kept held down while the user dragged the iPhone text-loupe to the end point.

Although the video was funny, I found my idea of the copy & paste implementation to be more of an Apple-like procedure. I thought his solution required "at least" one too many taps. In my version the user would position the loupe at the starting point, add a second finger and drag "both" fingers to the end point. The iPhone's multi-touch would allow the loupe to stay positioned under the first finger while noting the addition of the second (two fingers means copy & paste time). When the user got to the ending point they would lift both fingers and the clipboard options would pop up. Choose an option and boom, it's that [Steve] simple!

I have since been asking myself the question; "If Apple went with either of these methods couldn't users keep accidentally tapping or touching a second finger, and thus this "feature" would keep annoying the crap out of them?" My solution to this "inevitable problem" was to turn Copy & Paste off by default and let the demo guy on Apple.com explain the feature and inform people to switch it on in Preferences. That just adds more complications though, and perhaps users would still keep on enabling the feature accidentally while simply positioning the loupe? I think they would.

To make a long(er) story short(er): I have a new and improved solution.

Position loupe at your chosen start-point, hold there for about 1.5 seconds (they could perfect the appropriate holding-time) at which point the text selector changes color from blue (to green or red), then the user drags newly colored text selector to the end-point, they then lift their "finger" and the clipboard options appear. Easy peasy Japanesy!!!

Only one finger required, and it's in a way similar to the way one can now edit the "Home Screen".

I am quite convinced Apple are working on Copy & Paste for iPhone, and I think this would be the most easy to use and simplest implementation they could choose. I have just sent this as feedback to Apple. I hope you guys can take a few moments to send it to them also. Cheers!
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post #2 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I am quite convinced Apple are working on Copy & Paste for iPhone, and I think this would be the most easy to use and simplest implementation they could choose. I have just sent this as feedback to Apple. I hope you guys can take a few moments to send it to them also. Cheers!

I'm convinced too. We just need to give them some time to figure a few things out first --it's a whole user interface, after all.
post #3 of 41
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post #4 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

Hmm, well changing colors could work as an indicator... but um... I don't think accidently having 2 fingers would be much of a problem, there's already a delay before the loupe pops up, and if you had 2 fingers on there by accident, why not just lift one of the fingers to cancel the selection?

Sebastian

Who needs two fingers when this method uses one. In my opinion this new one finger method blows the two finger one away.
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post #5 of 41
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post #6 of 41
Yup, I was think this would be a problem when all of the easy finger gestures were taking up for zoom (2 finger spread and double tap) and scroll (finger down, move). There needs be some kind of selection mode to perform the copy. Enter it through a 2 finger gesture (like a "C" or "S" or something). Then, a bunch of smart-selection techniques could be employed. Single tap to select an image or word. Double tap for a sentence or URL. Fine-grained control using the loop. A list view with commands also needs to pop-up. Than there has to be paste command added an editing mode... it can be complicated no matter how simple the implementation.

Apple should have gone really simple and limited at first. Only copy-paste text, and gradually expanded from there though.
post #7 of 41
I was extremely surprised to see "copy and paste" missing, yet again, from the latest software update. Seriously.

My wife would love to switch to the iPhone. She's a Treo user. Because of the nature of her job she has to write and compose email and texts from the road. She's what I'd call a smart-phone power user. But "copy and paste" is a deal breaker for her.

Too bad, really. She eyes my iPhone jealously. But without "copy and paste" it's worthless to her.
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post #8 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

Because if you stall in the middle of moving the cursor, then it turns into a text selection and you don't exactly provide a way to get out of that selection, the only way would be to lift your finger and then you'd have to cancel the clipboard options. At least with 2 fingers you could just lift one up to cancel. In other words, your method would probably increase frustration.

Sebastian

You haven't thought this through. Stalling at one point with the loupe present for 1.5 seconds (by accident) would likely never happen, and if it did it would be no different to stalling for 1.5 seconds when pressing an icon on the Home Screen.

Well at least Chris Pirillo agrees with me, and if you take the Home Screen edit feature into account, it seems Steve Jobs does too.
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post #9 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by THT View Post

Yup, I was think this would be a problem when all of the easy finger gestures were taking up for zoom (2 finger spread and double tap) and scroll (finger down, move). There needs be some kind of selection mode to perform the copy. Enter it through a 2 finger gesture (like a "C" or "S" or something). Then, a bunch of smart-selection techniques could be employed. Single tap to select an image or word. Double tap for a sentence or URL. Fine-grained control using the loop. A list view with commands also needs to pop-up. Than there has to be paste command added an editing mode... it can be complicated no matter how simple the implementation.

Apple should have gone really simple and limited at first. Only copy-paste text, and gradually expanded from there though.

I refuse to believe you read my first comment.

Here's a self-quote from a recent email I sent:
Quote:
After much deliberation on the matter I may have cracked it!

I think I have discovered the "perfect" Copy & Paste solution for Apple to implement on the iPhone.

Firstly I think the reason we haven't seen a solution to this problem yet is that Apple is unsure which method to use so that "all" users can grasp it. And they really want to get it right first time. Seeing as they are developing a new kind of user-interface here that will no doubt extend well past the realms of the iPhone, I think they are nervous they would add a feature that wasn't as good as the current mouse interface method for performing the same task. This UI is newer, so in theory it should be even easier to use. If it's not then people may ask why.

I am 99% sure my solution here is a new one. I have looked into this, I have seen the proof of concept videos and read all the forums. It came to me in a eureka moment. And like all good ideas it's brain-dead simple.

Here's my thinking C: You know the magnifying loupe on the iPhone? Well to bring that up (as you know) you hold your finger down for about 1/2 a second at any point in a text box. Here's the clever part... when you find the position where you want to start your Copy & Paste at you simply freeze, you hold that position (with loupe present) for about 1.5 seconds and the "navy" text selector within the loupe changes color to "green" (or any other color) right before your eyes. A subtle yet obvious clue that something is happening (i.e. hint hint iPhone / iPod touch user, you are now in select mode).

At this point all you have done is positioned the loupe and held it still for 1.5 seconds. So far so good.

Now, while your finger remains on the screen with the loupe present (as you would do with your mouse) you drag the text selector to the end of the piece of text you want, and you leave go.. and up pops all the clipboard options you'll ever need; Copy, Cut, Paste, Delete etc. You choose an option and you're done.

And when you want to Paste some copied text or a URL or something, you bring up the loupe and position it where you like, hold it for 1.5 seconds until the text selector turns green, and instead of dragging you just leave go and choose Paste from the pop up options.

A long email for a simple procedure I know. But it will be easier to do than to write about. That much is certain. And given that you will have to hold the loupe still for about 1.5 seconds, you can bet your bottom dollar you won't ever enter select mode by accident.

The 1.5 second figure is not set in stone, it's not an exact science. Apple will no doubt fine tune that hold time needed to bring the iPhone into "select mode", but the point is you have to hold the loupe still for a period of time that would be considered "longer than normal". Upon testing this method on my iPhone to me it simply feels "too organic" to be wrong. It seems so like the right thing to me. And most importantly it's easy to grasp, for the reason that it's simple.
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post #10 of 41
This is the method I thought of...

1. Use the magnifying glass to find the start location
2. With your finger still on the glass tap anywhere with another finger to begin selecting (you do not need to keep your second finger on the glass as you move)
3. Keep your first finger on the glass and move magnifying glass to end location
4. Tap anywhere with second finger to bring up the copy/paste/cut menu
5. Move your finger up to select the action; the selection happens when your finger is removed.

This second finger tap would also be usable to in Safari to copy a link or open the link in a new window.
post #11 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by darngooddesign View Post

This is the method I thought of...

1. Use the magnifying glass to find the start location
2. With your finger still on the glass tap anywhere with another finger to begin selecting (you do not need to keep your second finger on the glass as you move)
3. Keep your first finger on the glass and move magnifying glass to end location
4. Tap anywhere with second finger to bring up the copy/paste/cut menu
5. Move your finger up to select the action; the selection happens when your finger is removed.

This second finger tap would also be usable to in Safari to copy a link or open the link in a new window.

As I was saying I think two fingers would cause complications combined with too much tapping and I think it would be too easy to trigger it accidentally. In contrast not only is the one finger method easier to grasp, but if you are the type of person who wouldn't even know what Copy & Paste is, when using the loupe you are not inclined to hold it in one spot for an unusually long period of time.

Think loupe, hold, drag, release!

If you have an iPhone just try my method within an email to see what I mean. Then try the two finger method.
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post #12 of 41
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post #13 of 41
Neither method is obvious and would rely on instructions from Apple.

I tried both methods and honestly I'm not sure which method works best for me; however, I think the browsing experience will suffer if you are concerned about the loupe just appearing if your finger lingers too long on the screen. I think instead the loupe should appear when you second finger tap. That way it will act as a modifier button and deactivate the normal scrolling gestures. c&p will rely on your finger moving the cursor instead of your finger scrolling the screen's contents. Then you position the loupe and hold it (or second finger tap) to start the selection.

For future purposes of selecting large blocks of type I think you need to be able to take your finger off the glass to scroll the screen while you are making the selection so there should be a second tap to end the selection. It would be a bad idea to handicap the c&p function just because initially we're only c&p addresses or phone numbers.
post #14 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by darngooddesign View Post

Neither method is obvious and would rely on instructions from Apple.

Well that is obvious.
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post #15 of 41
Or Apple could try another tactic by just adding two new symbols to the keyboard, similar to [ and ]. How would that work?

Simply place "[" where you want the copy to start and "]" where you want it to end. The moment you place the "]" an option comes up asking if you want to cut, copy, or cancel, the text.

Once copied, type those same symbols, such as "[]", without any spaces between them, and the option comes up to paste, paste history, or cancel. Paste places the last copied text from memory. Paste history brings up another screen listing previously copied text. Each may be pasted again or deleted, at will. Users could have several pastes available at a moment’s notice, which is great for making multiple contacts, heavily used phrases for emails and text messages, etc..

Doing something like this as their first entry into copy/paste would allow them to change the symbols or options as they get feedback, without annoying those that are focused on the multi-touch technology. Again, these aren't the actual symbols "[" and "]", they are whatever new ones Apple comes up with.

Just an idea.
post #16 of 41
Apple should just include some scissors and glue in the iPhone package.
post #17 of 41
so far the loupe is the most imprecise part of the iphone for me.

ok, so you know how if you tap/hold on the "n" key a little menu pops up to let you choose between three "n" choices (n, ñ, and `n)? why not make it so that if you tap/hold on the spacebar you get the choice to change your keyboard into "edit mode"? there would be choices for zooming in on the text, zooming out, dropping a cursor, putting in start/stop points, turning "select" on and off, accessing multiple clipboards, etc.

the whole point of the display is that it can change at any time. just like how when entering a URL, there's no spacebar, when doing editing, you don't need keys.
post #18 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

The 1.5 second figure is not set in stone, it's not an exact science. Apple will no doubt fine tune that hold time needed to bring the iPhone into "select mode", but the point is you have to hold the loupe still for a period of time that would be considered "longer than normal". Upon testing this method on my iPhone to me it simply feels "too organic" to be wrong. It seems so like the right thing to me. And most importantly it's easy to grasp, for the reason that it's simple.

I think your method works fine for text. No disagreements.

What if you want to zoom in/out? What about copying pictures? How about multiple email/notes selection (especially non-contiguous selection)?

My other comments were for other ways to do it. The loop is fairly imprecise (as one other poster said), and I was thinking that a smart select could be done. Such as a secret gesture to enter selection mode, than using single taps, double taps, and finger-down+pause+slide type inputs for the select. 2 finger pinch can also be used for zoom in/out. After that, the selection mode commands (copy-to-clipboard, email, SMS, delete, etc.) can be invoked.
post #19 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by THT View Post

Such as a secret gesture to enter selection mode....

So after you enter select mode using this "secret gesture", how do you tell the iPhone to start copying at "this" point, and end at "this" point?

If you say "using the loupe" then my method is obviously easier, i.e. better, as it wouldn't require any previous (secret) gesture. It would be simply loupe and hold, what could be simpler?
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post #20 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

So after you enter select mode using this "secret gesture", how do you tell the iPhone to start copying at "this" point, and end at "this" point?

If you say "using the loupe" then my method is obviously easier, i.e. better, as it wouldn't require any previous (secret) gesture. It would be simply loupe and hold, what could be simpler?

the loupe sucks.

i'd like to see some critiques on my idea.
post #21 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmber View Post

the loupe sucks.

Define sucks?
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post #22 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Define sucks?

is imprecise and jumps around while i'm scanning with it.

in the context of the copy/paste idea, i can't imagine using that to select text. it works nothing like a mouse -- which is the way i'm seeing people try to make it work in a copy/paste scenario. dragging to select is quick when you have a mouse. i still hate dragging on my trackpad. let's not make multitouch what it isn't: a mouse.

i think it would be much quicker to at least have the choice of dropping start and stop points, much like dropping pins in google maps.

it's nothing personal, i just really hope that copy/paste is not implemented in the way you have described. personally, i think the way i described would be easy to use, but i wouldn't use the word "simple" to describe it. i don't want my copy/paste options to be simple. i'd like to be able to quickly select non-continuous sections of a paragraph easily (for example, the first and third sentences of a paragraph.) i'd like to be able to copy multiple things to multiple clipboards.
post #23 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmber View Post

is imprecise and jumps around while i'm scanning with it.

Strange, I'm not having that trouble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmber View Post

i don't want my copy/paste options to be simple.

Are you a Mac user?

As for multiple clipboards, not a hope in hell in getting that from Apple for the iPhone.
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post #24 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Strange, I'm not having that trouble.

Regardless of how any feature is implemented, some won't have trouble using it. What one person thinks is simple, quick, and easy, is not what two million people will immediately agree on. Deciding what new features are added and how they are used takes a lot of work. Most times you need a working version to figure out what works for the most people - with the least amount of instructions.

No matter what they do, the moment Apple releases a way to use copy/paste on the iPhone, most people won't use it, let alone like it. After a while they start to get a feel for it and it becomes second nature. To match other iPhone features they have to figure out a "fun and easy" way to copy/paste. While the ideas posted in this topic can work, that doesn't mean any of them are actually "fun and easy" to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


Are you a Mac user?

As for multiple clipboards, not a hope in hell in getting that from Apple for the iPhone.

If not from Apple, a third party. The iPhone SDK is coming next month. That should give us plenty of ways to use copy/paste until Apple releases their version of it.
post #25 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Strange, I'm not having that trouble.


Are you a Mac user?

As for multiple clipboards, not a hope in hell in getting that from Apple for the iPhone.

it's really not strange at all. the loupe isn't perfect, so it's totally normal for two people to have two different experiences with it. i've found it to be much less than desirable, while you haven't. nothing strange about that.

i have been a mac user all my life.

you still haven't touched on my idea.
post #26 of 41
Please forgive my ignorance with Mac but I am a new user. I have seen the "light" but I am still trying to learn how to do some of the things I could do on my PC.

I am trying to copy the current screen I am viewing to paste into a document. On the PC it is alt+print screen to copy to the clipboard, then I can paste.

Is there a similar command available on the Mac? I am using OS X 10.4.11.
post #27 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRookie View Post

I am trying to copy the current screen I am viewing to paste into a document. On the PC it is alt+print screen to copy to the clipboard, then I can paste.

Not the best place to ask this since this thread is about the iPhone but anyway...

Go here: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/orei...t-secrets.html
post #28 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

So after you enter select mode using this "secret gesture", how do you tell the iPhone to start copying at "this" point, and end at "this" point?

If you say "using the loupe" then my method is obviously easier, i.e. better, as it wouldn't require any previous (secret) gesture. It would be simply loupe and hold, what could be simpler?

I said: The loop is fairly imprecise (as one other poster said), and I was thinking that a smart select could be done. Such as a secret gesture to enter selection mode, than using single taps, double taps, and finger-down+pause+slide type inputs for the select. 2 finger pinch can also be used for zoom in/out. After that, the selection mode commands (copy-to-clipboard, email, SMS, delete, etc.) can be invoked.

I was being facetious about "secret", but the point was a gesture to enter selection mode such as 2 or 3 finger "S" or even an onscreen button if it is really common. Once you are in selection mode, the rules changes for the screen. A single finger touch and slide doesn't slide anymore. Double tap doesn't zoom anymore. Pinch zoom still does however. For a smart select type of thing, a single tap selects a word or URL or image or embedded document. A double/triple tap selects a sentence or paragraph. Finger-down+pause+slide can do a finer grained selection. Non-contiguous selection in lists could be just a facet of selection mode when in a list view. Then to get out of it, there could be an action button somewhere. The action button would invoke large buttons for clipboard actions (save, select, delete, cut, copy, email, search in web, compute, dictionary, ie "services", etc.)

I think it would have been simpler if Apple just used a single touch for selecting (plus move selected object) while reserving two finger touches for moving pages/screens and scrolling. I can definitely see why they went with 1-touch to move the page/list and stuff though. It's very natural, but it put them in a box for move complex usages where selection is required. This was the one big UI mistake I thought they made with the iPhone UI. One touch scrolling is great, but it put them in a box for future uses.

For a consistent gesture interface, they effectively have to re-educate and remarket the iPhone. Single touch gestures perform selection activities (and button presses and such). 2 touch gestures due rotations, zooming, scrolling. 3 touch gestures, well those are secret. 2 fingers for scrolling and moving isn't as natural as 1 finger, but it doesn't leave them in this non-editing box when they want to expand the functionality of the device into a more computer-centric (editing, creating something) device as oppose to a media consuming one.

Either that or just have a limited copy-paste functionality like text only.
post #29 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

There was a funny video created last year that demoed a 'proof of concept' iPhone copy & paste system. About 2-3 weeks before that video was published I had started a thread here describing what I thought would be a good UI for copy & paste (delete, cut) etc. I basically said something similar to what happened in that video - only in my version the second finger was kept held down while the user dragged the iPhone text-loupe to the end point.

Although the video was funny, I found my idea of the copy & paste implementation to be more of an Apple-like procedure. I thought his solution required "at least" one too many taps. In my version the user would position the loupe at the starting point, add a second finger and drag "both" fingers to the end point. The iPhone's multi-touch would allow the loupe to stay positioned under the first finger while noting the addition of the second (two fingers means copy & paste time). When the user got to the ending point they would lift both fingers and the clipboard options would pop up. Choose an option and boom, it's that [Steve] simple!

I have since been asking myself the question; "If Apple went with either of these methods couldn't users keep accidentally tapping or touching a second finger, and thus this "feature" would keep annoying the crap out of them?" My solution to this "inevitable problem" was to turn Copy & Paste off by default and let the demo guy on Apple.com explain the feature and inform people to switch it on in Preferences. That just adds more complications though, and perhaps users would still keep on enabling the feature accidentally while simply positioning the loupe? I think they would.

To make a long(er) story short(er): I have a new and improved solution.

Position loupe at your chosen start-point, hold there for about 1.5 seconds (they could perfect the appropriate holding-time) at which point the text selector changes color from blue (to green or red), then the user drags newly colored text selector to the end-point, they then lift their "finger" and the clipboard options appear. Easy peasy Japanesy!!!

Only one finger required, and it's in a way similar to the way one can now edit the "Home Screen".

I am quite convinced Apple are working on Copy & Paste for iPhone, and I think this would be the most easy to use and simplest implementation they could choose. I have just sent this as feedback to Apple. I hope you guys can take a few moments to send it to them also. Cheers!

I think that is an excellent way to do it. However, Apple will probably do something different just because this is posted to the public. I hope they go with your idea though. Very good. I know I would appreciate that solution. It is a pain not having it, but otherwise, the iPhone is awesome.
post #30 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post

I think that is an excellent way to do it. However, Apple will probably do something different just because this is posted to the public. I hope they go with your idea though. Very good. I know I would appreciate that solution. It is a pain not having it, but otherwise, the iPhone is awesome.

I knew someone would eventually like it.
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post #31 of 41
so i've read over your idea multiple times and i seem to be missing how exactly to paste. if seems like copy is pretty easy (although simplistic in its options) but i'm not sure i understand how to paste. i have to hold down for another second and a half to paste something? i would say that only about half of my pasting comes right after copying. there are also many times where i want to paste something multiple times.

i think your idea could be implemented as an option in the keyboard settings as "simple editing" or something (note that i'm not using simple as a put-down) then i would like to see my idea as an option as "expanded editing".

how's that for idea-compromise, ireland?
post #32 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmber View Post

so i've read over your idea multiple times and i seem to be missing how exactly to paste. if seems like copy is pretty easy (although simplistic in its options) but i'm not sure i understand how to paste. i have to hold down for another second and a half to paste something? i would say that only about half of my pasting comes right after copying. there are also many times where i want to paste something multiple times.

Pasting? Ok

Bring up the loupe, hold for 1.5 seconds, loupe turns green (or another color), don't drag loupe just leave go, choose paste from the pop-up options, done.

Wanna paste again, do that again.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #33 of 41
ya i figured. see, the reason i don't like using the loupe like that is as i said before, the loupe has proven to be very imprecise for me. it rarely zooms in on what i'm looking for it to zoom in on. i see myself having to pull up the loupe, move it to where i actually want to start selecting, wait a second and a half, then start selecting. that process could take as little as 2-3 seconds, at most 3-5. now, i realize this is all based on each person's "ability" with the loupe, but i am definitely not impressed by it so far. i would hate for it to start selecting where i don't want it to and have to start the whole process over again, but i can totally see that being the case.

now, if i had to put money on which way i think copy/paste will be implemented it would be on your way. it's a natural progression from what we have going on currently and probably how the majority of us figured copy/paste would end up being implemented before reading this thread -- i know i did. i'm just holding out hope for an "advanced" editing system. at least the option of it.
post #34 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmber View Post

ya i figured. see, the reason i don't like using the loupe like that is as i said before, the loupe has proven to be very imprecise for me. it rarely zooms in on what i'm looking for it to zoom in on.

I don't mean to seem offensive here, I'm being sincere.. I think your problem with the not being good with the loupe is the fact that you aren't used to it. The iPhone is a new creature, doing a similar action on the mouse is easier, but you've used a mouse "for years". Use the iPhone UI on a 11" tablet screen for 6 months and I guarantee you'll get my thinking on this loupe thing. It's not too easy so it will "never" happen accidentally, yet I and others I know (Chris Pirillo etc.) seems to get what I'm saying here. For the record I seem to be good will the loupe, but I was always quick to take up things.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #35 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I don't mean to seem offensive here, I'm being sincere.. I think your problem with the not being good with the loupe is the fact that you aren't used to it. The iPhone is a new creature, doing a similar action on the mouse is easier, but you've used a mouse "for years". Use the iPhone UI on a 11" tablet screen for 6 months and I guarantee you'll get my thinking on this loupe thing. It's not too easy so it will "never" happen accidentally, yet I and others I know (Chris Pirillo etc.) seems to get what I'm saying here. For the record I seem to be good will the loupe, but I was always quick to take up things.

i've used only a trackpad for going on three years now. i'm good with my fingers. it's not me. it's the loupe. it's too imprecise to trust with something as essential as copy/paste -- imho.

what this all comes down to is the seeming lack of a contextual menu on the iphone. the thing is, there's the perfect opportunity for an editing context menu in the fact that the keyboard is completely contextually based. i would much rather take the same amount of time to get 10x the features by changing the keyboard itself. why only give me the simplistic options of "copy" and "paste" if i can easily do what i laid out earlier: changing the keyboard to editing buttons when you're editing. look at the big deal that is made out of the optimus maximus keyboard. same thing with the iphone keyboard. i could copy little snippets out of a paragraph with just a few clicks instead of a copy/paste, copy/paste, copy/paste labor.

as i have said, i think your idea is the way this will be implemented. but i do not think it is the best or even easiest way. it is definitely the apple way though. why would i want a qwerty-keyboard taking up half my screen if i'm doing editing? i wouldn't. no one would. the only reason we do is we're not used to a context-based keyboard.

may as well agree to disagree at this point. i just hope apple doesn't lay up, which is what i see the loupe-method as. there is so much more available with multi-touch than this.
post #36 of 41
one last quick example. it's the same reason i have to keep a webclip to weather.com's iphone page on my homescreen. the weather widget apple provides give me no info. i can look out my window and get the same info that widget tells me. but it looks pretty and it's quick and easy. i love the first thing, but don't need the last two. i want to know what the forecast is. i want to know what is coming up, not what is going on. it's the same with what i'm saying about copy/paste. it'd be easy to put a band-aid on it and give me the bare essentials. but that's not what i want.

hopefully something in the SDK will let me do what i'm talking about.
post #37 of 41
I like the COPY function. Simple. Very in keeping with iPhone and evolving complex functionality.
PASTE seems a bit lacking in ease-of-use. Apple will try and avoid a pop-up menu IMO.

Nice creativity nontheless, Ireland.
"There, there. Your tears say more than real evidence ever could."
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"There, there. Your tears say more than real evidence ever could."
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post #38 of 41
I too have problems with the loop. It doesn't appear if your finger is slightly too high or too low on the line of text. Did I mention my fingers are huge? Not that the loop is the wrong way to do it. Just pointing out that some users are frequently frustrated by it.

Hopefully Apple can come up with an elegant and obvious solution that has little negative impact on other functionality. Home screen editing is an example of an interaction technique that ended up being worth the wait. If they'd just jumped ahead and implemented everything, we would have likely ended up with a worse solution. Probably it would have been a customize button that invoked a special customization screen. Once such a feature is implemented, it is nearly impossible for OS vendors to remove the feature. Thus I'm in favor of being patient even if it means no CCP for another year or so.
post #39 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

I too have problems with the loop. It doesn't appear if your finger is slightly too high or too low on the line of text. Did I mention my fingers are huge?

Having big fingers should really make no difference, it pops up at the centre point no matter how large your fingers are.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #40 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanUK View Post

I like the COPY function. Simple. Very in keeping with iPhone and evolving complex functionality.
PASTE seems a bit lacking in ease-of-use. Apple will try and avoid a pop-up menu IMO.

Nice creativity nontheless, Ireland.

Thanks.

I think you may have misunderstood me though, "Copy" has a pop up menu too. For Copy, Cut, Delete, Select All, Cancel etc. They both do. Pop-up menus on the iPhone are nothing new, Google Maps has that. If your search is not specific enough a pop-up appears with a few options to choose from. A, b c or d etc. This would be no different, just instead of choosing a place from the list presented you choosing an action.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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  • I may have discovered the best solution of all for Copy & Paste, and it's simple!
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