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UK: 1000 New Phones Tapped Every Day

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
That's right, not content with the millions of CCTV cameras, now the hapless denizens of the SS UK are having to suffer their phones being tapped for no reason whatsoever.

Well, that's not quite true; reasons include: benefit claiming, littering, fly tipping and (probably) being of dubious ethnicity.

Pretty glad I don't live there anymore, my phone would be a molten mass of glowing plastic.

Quote:
Councils, police and intelligence services are tapping and intercepting the phone calls, emails and letters of hundreds of thousands of people every year, an official report said.

A total of 653 state bodies are able to intercept personal calls and emails.

Those being bugged include people suspected of illegal fly-tipping as councils use little known powers to carry out increasingly sophisticated surveillance to catch offenders.

The report, by Sir Paul Kennedy, the Interception of Communications Commissioner, has fuelled fears that Britain is becoming a state where private communications are routinely monitored.

It also found that more than 1,000 of the bugging operations were flawed. In some cases, the phones of innocent people were tapped simply because of administrative errors.

Oh, and did I mention that these tappings can happen routinely? It is purely up to the organizations so empowered - 653 of them - to decide to do it. That's all it takes, no further permission, reasons or accountability needed.

Daily Telegraph
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post #2 of 13
I really enjoyed the movie "V for Vendetta". I was so hoping for a sequal!

With that said, its easy to get around wire tapping, but most people wouldn't know where to start.


_CCIE VOIP
post #3 of 13
post #4 of 13
Gosh, I hate to trump @_@ Artman, but:

post #5 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

Gosh, I hate to trump @_@ Artman, but:


Hate to double trump ya...

Quote:
"The debate isn't security versus privacy. It's liberty versus control." - Bruce Schneier

You can see it in comments by government officials: "Privacy no longer can mean anonymity," says Donald Kerr, principal deputy director of national intelligence. "Instead, it should mean that government and businesses properly safeguard people's private communications and financial information." Did you catch that? You're expected to give up control of your privacy to others, who -- presumably -- get to decide how much of it you deserve. That's what loss of liberty looks like.



Quote:
"Behind Winston's back the voice from the telescreen was still babbling away about pig-iron and the overfulfilment of the Ninth Three-Year Plan. The telescreen received and transmitted simultaneously. Any sound that Winston made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it, moreover, so long as he remained within the field of vision which the metal plaque commanded, he could be seen as well as heard. There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live — did live, from habit that became instinct — in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized." - George Orwell, 1984
post #6 of 13
Once Artman calms down, perhaps he'll realize that Kerr was actually correct. Sure, one can interpret his remarks as the the individual relaying the quote did. But what Kerr says is true if one is not letting his emotions rule the day.

There is really no such thing as "privacy" as we've known it anymore. It's a side-effect of our technological advancement. What privacy does one have anymore? Virtually none. All non-cash transactions are tracked and logged. You are tracked on the highway when you pay tolls with EZPass. You can't even buy groceries without a "bonus" card that tracks the kind of items you buy. Hell, you get targeted ads from Google, all based on your search strings. Give me a social security number (or even phone number) and I can find out anything about almost anyone. Get loaded at a party and do something stupid? It's on Youtube via a cellphone camera. Anonymity? It's gone, and has been for a long time.

The only real issue is who has access to that information. Privacy now means the safeguarding of information. That doesn't mean the government should be able to peek in your windows, but it does man that anonymity is dead. You go to a public place? Expect to be caught on camera. Call someone in a known terror-sponsoring country? The call be listened to. It's just the age we live in.

Edit: I should mention that after reading the article Seg posted, I agree that councils and local bodies in general should not have the tapping authority they do. If the report is accurate, it's clearly excessive to tap someone's phone because they dumped garbage illegally, or the like.
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post #7 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

There is really no such thing as "privacy" as we've known it anymore.

The 4th Amendment begs to differ.

post #8 of 13
Considering that the US government has contracted foreign intelligence agencies (including MI6 in the UK) to spy on Americans from outside US borders (thus not, in theory, violating the 4th Amendment), and the Bush Administration authorized wiretaps from within US borders post 9/11, it looks as if the 4th Amendment is now a plaintive echo from the past..

There was even an incident recently where an airline passenger was not allowed to board his flight because he was wearing a t-shirt with the First Amendment to the US Constitution printed on the front. TSA designated him as a "security risk". (Searching for the link)
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #9 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

There was even an incident recently where an airline passenger was not allowed to board his flight because he was wearing a t-shirt with the First Amendment to the US Constitution printed on the front. TSA designated him as a "security risk". (Searching for the link)

http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/gen/3...s20070809.html

Outrageous.
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post #10 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

The 4th Amendment begs to differ.


Wait.. you mean the Constitution actually matters again? When did that change? Ashcroft/Bush/Reno/Clinton/Gonzo and crew returned the corpse for proper burial?
I must have missed it. Our government has no real respect whatsoever for the Constitution of the United States. It's an obstacle to be overcome... time and again.

We're on an almost irreversible slide to the end of the Constitution and the Republic. It's no longer decades. It's years.

North American Union, here we come... as subjects, serfs, and mere chattel. It's the reason that the borders are wide open despite overwhelming public opinion against the idea, the secretive nature of the SPP, and the ram-rod job done with the TransTexas Corridor project. Add in some police/surveillance state love like the Brits pathetically accept and there we'll be... completely fscked.

You see, it's not just the 2nd Amendment that the enemies of freedom claim is "outdated" and "archaic." Is the entire document. Nation-state? Sovereignty? Balderdash. Poppycock. We can see the finish line for the "Long March."
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post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Once Artman calms down, perhaps he'll realize that Kerr was actually correct. Sure, one can interpret his remarks as the the individual relaying the quote did. But what Kerr says is true if one is not letting his emotions rule the day.

It's been boring as hell around here lately.

If you read the link I provided it is not security...but our liberties that are eroding. And who is this "Kerr" and where is where I can read what he's saying?

When the government agencies contact people and coerce people to have their phones tapped I'd say that it is an attack on one's liberties (choice, like saying "NO, I don't have to).

Quote:

Quote:
There is really no such thing as "privacy" as we've known it anymore. It's a side-effect of our technological advancement. What privacy does one have anymore? Virtually none.

Duh. It is expected that in this new technological age that companies, other marketing entities and yes, even government agencies to track people's purchases, interests and use of infrastructures. If you are ignorant of the boundaries being crossed into our personal lives, liberties and the pursuit of happiness then you accept it. You are a sheep if you do.

Quote:
All non-cash transactions are tracked and logged.

Pay in cash whenever you can. Don't use credit cards or debit cards for small purchases. I have not switched to paying bills or banking online for the very reason that the so-called security most promise is bogus. We're still in the Web's infancy and anyone who thinks it is secure (or whether you are being tracked and your information is safe) is a fool.

Quote:
You are tracked on the highway when you pay tolls with EZPass.

I don't know the policies or rules involved with this since I don't have a car. Can you still pay in cash or coin? If not, you're screwed there.

Quote:
You can't even buy groceries without a "bonus" card that tracks the kind of items you buy.

Shop at local grocers or opt out of the card and clip coupons.

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Hell, you get targeted ads from Google, all based on your search strings.

There are ways around this too. Having a Mac and no Internet Explorer still offers some prevention, but that's dwindling.

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Give me a social security number (or even phone number) and I can find out anything about almost anyone.

Oldest tricks in the book. There are ways to prevent and get out of this trap too. I don't understand the phone number. Haven't had an issue ever concerning this. Though since I have registered with donotcall.gov, I have had no telemarketers or other solicitations for years. Plus I don't give it out everywhere.

Quote:
Get loaded at a party and do something stupid? It's on Youtube via a cellphone camera. Anonymity? It's gone, and has been for a long time.

Luckily, I don't drink anymore. But I'm not demanding my "anonymity" back, I'm demanding that our liberties (choice being a major demand) be restored before they are all taken away from us.

Quote:
The only real issue is who has access to that information. Privacy now means the safeguarding of information.

And we all should trust the government and their agencies to protect that information as well as the companies and corporations have done.

Quote:
That doesn't mean the government should be able to peek in your windows, but it does mean that anonymity is dead. You go to a public place? Expect to be caught on camera. Call someone in a known terror-sponsoring country? The call be listened to. It's just the age we live in.

We have to have a system that doesn't go overboard though. The more the border is crossed beyond sensible security, the more we'll just keep accepting it and that's wrong. We need to be just as vigilant watching them as they do us. We shouldn't become complacent.

Quote:
Edit: I should mention that after reading the article Seg posted, I agree that councils and local bodies in general should not have the tapping authority they do. If the report is accurate, it's clearly excessive to tap someone's phone because they dumped garbage illegally, or the like.

As I said, it is who is doing the watching and whether they have overstepped the boundaries of the people's rights, freedoms and liberties.

On a similar topic...I recall SDW that you have children though I don't recall their ages. Have you been concerned about their privacy as far as the Internet and social networking with sites such as MySpace, Facebook a other web based communication? If so, where would you draw the line to their protection and their own privacy?

This generation of young people today are the first to actually been born and raised with cellphones, computers and the Internet. It's given many parents headaches (and heartaches) on how to protect their children and to how much (or how far?) the parent can pry into their children's lives.

I watched Frontline's latest report on this and I think it would be of interest to you. It's posted online at their site. Highly recommend it.


Growing Up Online


If you don't have concerns and just accept what's coming, at least think of your children (not saying you're not, just passing on this report).
post #12 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnwrite View Post

http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/gen/3...s20070809.html

Outrageous.

Turnwrite,.keep searching. "We will not be silent" is not a statement from the US constitution--at least not the present one. It's attributed to The White Rose student resistance group in Nazi Germany. You can read about the shirt here: http://www.thecriticalvoice.org/.

This site has an account of the incident on the airplane involving the guy wearing the shirt. It's absurd-almost Kafkaesque: http://www.parkerstudio.com/AAW/JFK_story.html.

PS Supposedly the t-shirt comes in 20 other languages besides English and Arabic. I think it would be much more effective if all 20 versions of the phrase were on a single shirt (although maybe not so provocative).
post #13 of 13
Quote:
If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter. - George Washington

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