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MacBook Air (HDD model): an in-depth review - Page 2

post #41 of 154
2/4/08 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I could forgive most things, but no ethernet? That is just bloody dumb. Add on, add on, add on... feck that.

You know, I was really surprised at how much this has upset some people. In my own world (office, home), it's all wireless.

What's your envisioned setup, where a stripped down ultralight laptop would be your preferred laptop, but where the lack of ethernet kills it for you? 802.11N really is pretty fast. Most of the things I can imagine needing ethernet for, the MBA was simply the wrong laptop anyway.

(And curse it though you may, Apple does provide the add-on USB-Ethernet thing. I thought that was a terribly good idea. Why do I want something adding weight to my laptop that I hardly ever care to use? On the rare occasions I needed it, I had the add on)
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post #42 of 154
2/4/08 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

One thing about the article: the latest HD video cameras do not have FW and only have USB, so my new camera from Canon will work fine with the Air.

My brand new Sony HDV has both USB2 and FW400 (iLink); but then it also has SDI, component, and uses ExpressCard 34 instead of DV tape. (yummm...)
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post #43 of 154
2/4/08 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Are you completely blind to the ultraportable class of computers? Is this your first awareness of their existence? While there are some disagreements on what ultraportable means, Apple was the only major computer comany that didn't offer anything in that category. It was about time that Apple stepped in with something. Despite your ignorant assertions, ultraportables routintely use the 1.8" hard drives, and they almost never have a discrete graphics chip. As far as I know, the 3x00 chip is the best used in the ultraportable class. Several models in that class are still using the 950 chip.

Why are we bothering to answer guys like such? We are only feeding their ignorance.
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post #44 of 154
2/4/08 at 11:29am
That's exactly what the 12" PowerBook did; it used a slightly smaller keyboard and display, but ended up considerably thicker than the 15" and 17" models it was sold next to.

This is simply not true. The 12" PowerBook uses the same size keyboard as the 15" and 17" models (not the same keyboard, but the same size). Though I did not believe that it was thicker, I compared them, and yes, it is. However, while the 12" is thicker, it is by no means 'considerably thicker' than the 15" as the article states. It is not even noticeable.

Anyway, I think the MacBook Air is a great machine. I could not care less about the missing ethernet or optical drive. I could even learn to live without the firewire... which I would miss dearly... but, my big gripe with the Air is the length and width.

It may be thin, but it's just as big as a MacBook. Why is the bezel so thick around the screen? And why is there so much space on either side of the keyboard? Shave that off, and Apple will have a work of art.

I'm not looking for an Eee PC... I think Apple did right by keeping a full size keyboard and display. I guess what I really want is a cross between the 12" PowerBook and the MacBook Air. Here's to dreaming.
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post #45 of 154
2/4/08 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by crampy20 View Post

...subjective points are everywhere... It is too big and still too heavy.

Maybe some folks are just bigger, stronger, and more financially well-endowed. Personally speaking, all my purchases are based on totally subjective conclusions. I never even thought to ask someone else's opinion, unless they're gonna help me pay.

While I can appreciate an opinion that says it works or doesn't work for a certain person because of XYZ features, I don't think it makes the product or review bad just because someone likes Apple or not.
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post #46 of 154
2/4/08 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brendon9x View Post

Nice article. But I disagree with one point. I don't think the Air will be a success. I know a lot of MacBook Pro and Powerbook users and at least three of them have been waiting for the 12 inch MBP; but not one of them is considering the Air. Which isn't to say they aren't tempted, just that there is something holding them back. The reasons are different for each one of them whether it's the optical drive or the lack of Firewire it all boils down to one thing: They are all looking for a laptop that will be their only computer.

I'm sure their is a market for people who don't mind the Remote Disc and can rip DV on FW using another computer. But the market is so much smaller than those simply looking for a 12 inch MBP.

I had a good laugh at this, people complaining that a 13" screen is to large. Someone in another thread called it HUGE. I on the other hand have been walking away from the MB because the screen is to small. To each their own.
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post #47 of 154
2/4/08 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by OllieWallieWhiskers View Post

That's exactly what the 12" PowerBook did; it used a slightly smaller keyboard and display, but ended up considerably thicker than the 15" and 17" models it was sold next to.

This is simply not true. The 12" PowerBook uses the same size keyboard as the 15" and 17" models (not the same keyboard, but the same size). Though I did not believe that it was thicker, I compared them, and yes, it is. However, while the 12" is thicker, it is by no means 'considerably thicker' than the 15" as the article states. It is not even noticeable.

Anyway, I think the MacBook Air is a great machine. I could not care less about the missing ethernet or optical drive. I could even learn to live without the firewire... which I would miss dearly... but, my big gripe with the Air is the length and width.

It may be thin, but it's just as big as a MacBook. Why is the bezel so thick around the screen? And why is there so much space on either side of the keyboard? Shave that off, and Apple will have a work of art.

I'm not looking for an Eee PC... I think Apple did right by keeping a full size keyboard and display. I guess what I really want is a cross between the 12" PowerBook and the MacBook Air. Here's to dreaming.

I ordered the MBA 1.6 with an SSD. I want to maximize battery life and never use processor intensive stuff. LIke the commentator above, I'd have traded off a touch more thickness for a slightly small footprint.

My question is that with a good inch on either side of the keyboard/screen and the same on top of the screen, could they have kept the same screen and keyboard and narrowed these sides if they went thicker.

The screen on my 12inch ibook has that same inch around the sides, but the keyboard does not. Is there something attached to the sides of the screen necessary for it to function that dictates a margin on all sides?
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post #48 of 154
2/4/08 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aresee View Post

I had a good laugh at this, people complaining that a 13" screen is to large. Someone in another thread called it HUGE. I on the other hand have been walking away from the MB because the screen is to small. To each their own.

I use an ibook 12inch screen, which is okay, but that is 4:3. I own a dell with a 12inch widescreen and that is really small and has little usable space. Most people that spend a lot of time typing on a 12inch widescreen or any form of an 11inch screen, but frustrated and eyestrain quickly.
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post #49 of 154
2/4/08 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

You know, I was really surprised at how much this has upset some people. In my own world (office, home), it's all wireless.

What's your envisioned setup, where a stripped down ultralight laptop would be your preferred laptop, but where the lack of ethernet kills it for you? 802.11N really is pretty fast. Most of the things I can imagine needing ethernet for, the MBA was simply the wrong laptop anyway.

(And curse it though you may, Apple does provide the add-on USB-Ethernet thing. I thought that was a terribly good idea. Why do I want something adding weight to my laptop that I hardly ever care to use? On the rare occasions I needed it, I had the add on)

I never use an ethernet on my laptop and taking along the doggle (fits easily and unobtrusively into a pouch or the bottom of a laptop case. Same deal with the optical drive.

I would say I was slightly curious on the inclusion of only one USB. Not sure why that thing on the slide that slides down with USB,DVI and headphone jack wasn't made just a tad longer to hold another. Doesn't really bother me but I am curious...
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post #50 of 154
2/4/08 at 12:04pm
Quote:
There also appear to be no ExpressCard slot WWAN modules that support the Mac.

I've successfully used Novatel V640 EVDO (for Verizon) and XU870 HSDPA (for Cingular), both ExpressCard/34 devices, on a MacBook Pro. It's been a while now, but my recollection is that the V640 was supported by Tiger straight away, while I believe the XU870 worked just fine but initially required manual configuration. I also believe these 2 ExpressCard devices represent just a few of the many available today.
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post #51 of 154
2/4/08 at 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Why are we bothering to answer guys like such? We are only feeding their ignorance.

Heaven forbid somebody posts an opinion that is different than what you want to hear....
I guess it's better to bury your head in the sand like an ostrich than to get the best information you possibly can....

Funny thing is whenever I buy a new product, I spend an awful lot of time looking at the message boards to see what problems people are having. This provides me much better information than listening to the positive spin like we traditionally encounter here....

I am still on the fence about this product and the more I read about user's experiences, the more I think the MBP is for me......

I did have the opportunity to witness someone trying to use a MBA this weekend while they were flying in Economy class (Delta) and it seems as though the person was having difficulty with the lid and the seat in front of him.... Despite this, he seemed to really like his MBA the way he was showing it off.....
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post #52 of 154
2/4/08 at 12:50pm
MacLemming, can you expand on the situation with the person flying economy class with a MBA? This appears to be one of the big questions being asked.
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post #53 of 154
2/4/08 at 1:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Whoa. That's a lot of unnecessary arrogance and anger there. It is really amazing how you can presume to speak on behalf of the purchase behavior and usage patterns of others whose needs, means, and circumstances may be very different from yours. In addition, it is a complete puzzle to me why you (and a few others) are wasting your time on venting on products that obviously don't even matter to you.

Weird.

Really this is key, the AIR in its current form is not suitable for me, sort of close but no cigar. What bothers me is the unwarranted response that the machine is getting and the complete willingness for the media to bit the big hook that Apple has let out. All I want to see is people doing these reviews to be objective and get the facts out to the readers. The tone of the article was far from that. Frankly if you want a balanced review of the AIR I'd suggest reading the Arstechnica article.

You are quite right that the AIR as it stands may suit a large number of people. The problem is that Apple definitely choose design over function in the case of this device. It will be very interesting to see how many (percentage wise) of the early adopters are using the AIR a year after they buy it. Of those that are left it would be interesting to know if they are frustrated with the unit.

Well if you have been looking for a laptop recently the AIR matters to you, it really doesn't matter if it meets your needs or not. Frankly being vocal also lets the manufacture realize the complexity of the machines reception. They can then take a look at how the unit could be improved in the next round of updates. There in is the key to acceptance in a broader sense. Frankly it wouldn't take much to remove a lot of AIR's limitations if Apple decides to do so.

The machine has its problems but what I'm really angry about is the chearleading response from the media. A little perspective would help.

Dave
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post #54 of 154
2/4/08 at 1:24pm
There is a lot of talk about compromise regarding the MBA, I think it is the least compromised Apple notebook. Think about it, all MBs has a single most important feature:
If you want performance, get a MBP
If you want a low price, get a MB
If you want portability, get a MBA

(You can rephrase these as: What moment to you care most about: when you use, buy or carry it?)

With the MBA Apple has put the size (actually thickness) as the most important feature. Anything that compromise the size is cut out. Of course, for anything that doesn't impact the size, get the biggest/fastest/and so on. For example, why choose the single platter 1.8 HD and not a dual? Because of a few mm in height. Number and kind of ports: least amount possible to keep the machine simple and lean. This machine is not for when you use it, it is for when you carry it.


Andreas
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post #55 of 154
2/4/08 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

You know, I was really surprised at how much this has upset some people. In my own world (office, home), it's all wireless.

Wireless certainly has its applications but someplace's it just isn't reliable or not offered.
Quote:

What's your envisioned setup, where a stripped down ultralight laptop would be your preferred laptop, but where the lack of ethernet kills it for you? 802.11N really is pretty fast. Most of the things I can imagine needing ethernet for, the MBA was simply the wrong laptop anyway.

I don't know about that. The AIR has really good potential for people on the go, but unfortunately they truncated the machine in so many ways it is no longer a versatile laptop.
Quote:

(And curse it though you may, Apple does provide the add-on USB-Ethernet thing. I thought that was a terribly good idea.

Yet you don't see the conflict in logic here. I mean if an USB to Ethernet adapter is such a good thing then maybe a AIR supplied Ethernet port would be even better? I'd be the first to admit though that such an adapter would not be that bad of a solution if AIR simply had been supplied with more USB ports.
Quote:
Why do I want something adding weight to my laptop that I hardly ever care to use? On the rare occasions I needed it, I had the add on)

For one thing I doubt very much that the expansion of the device to include more I/O would have had a significant impact on its weight. It is not like a lot of extra chips are required. The big problem with the add on is what do you do if you are also using the port for something else. Adding a hub doesn't really fly in the case of an ultra portable in my mind. It is far worst to be in a position of carrying around a bunch of dongles and adapters and hubs to achieve you I/O foot print than it is to have a laptop that weighs a little more by fractions of an ounce.

Dave
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post #56 of 154
2/4/08 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by andwi View Post

This machine is not for when you use it, it is for when you carry it.

Andreas

If it is not for when you use it then why bother? As for the issue of carry, I'd be the first to admit that that is a big issue at times, the problem as I see it is that Apple could have easily accommodated the I/O that is of serious concern to many.

Further the AIR is one of the only laptops Apple makes that is not meeting, not even coming close, its advertised battery lifetimes. But I guess a laptop that you expect to carry and not use has no need for a battery of any size.

Dave
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post #57 of 154
2/4/08 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

That's exactly what the 12" PowerBook did; it used a slightly smaller keyboard and display, but ended up considerably thicker than the 15" and 17" models it was sold next to.

No, the 12" PowerBook did not use a smaller keyboard. Its full-size keyboard is identical in size to the one used in the MacBook Pro.

As for "considerably" thicker, the 12" was 0.18 inches, or 18%, thicker.

The review also characterizes the Air's CPU speed as "slightly" slower. It's 20% slower than the slowest MacBook and 27% slower than the slowest MacBook Pro.

Swap the adjectives according to the percentages and we have the PB 12" "slightly" thicker than the MBP and the Air "considerably" slower than the MB and MBP.

I would expect hyperbole like "unique", "whisper thin", "sexy", "luxuriously" etc. in a review at MacDailyNews, but I had expected AI to be a bit less biased and defensive of this overpriced laptop.
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post #58 of 154
2/4/08 at 2:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by aresee View Post

MacLemming, can you expand on the situation with the person flying economy class with a MBA? This appears to be one of the big questions being asked.

The gentleman was about 8 rows in front of me. I had noticed he had the "Air" because he was showing it to the people that were sitting near him. I made it a point to go to the bathroom up front because I wanted to "check it out". When I passed by him, he had the MBA open at about 90+ degrees and the top of the lid was already resting against the seatback in front of him. The display looked stunning..

This is what I observed.
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post #59 of 154
2/4/08 at 3:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasper View Post

No, you're wrong. Check out Apple's specs page:

http://www.apple.com/macbookair/specs.html

"Intel Core 2 Duo processor with 4MB on-chip shared L2 cache running at full processor speed

800MHz frontside bus"

Thanks,

Kasper

There is a difference between the memory cache speed and the fsb. normally, the ram has a 667MHz cache speed and the cpu has an 800MHz speed.

hope this clear the confusion
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post #60 of 154
2/4/08 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by crampy20 View Post

this is proof that you should never read reviews by fanbois. Redundant and subjective points are everywhere yet you still cannot justify (after 5 pages) the use of the air.
Why spend more money on something that is less. Especially as it does not do its job I.e. It is too big and still too heavy.

I hope you know that this article is not meant to persuade you to use MBA. Its objective is to lay everything down so that we all can make our own "well-informed" decision.
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post #61 of 154
2/4/08 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by divini View Post

Well, it seems that Apple wanted to give us a late Christmas Toy. That's what look to me.

i couldnt agree more.. its not a very useful laptop for me cause i need the power and the versatility of a MBP or MB. But, i would love to play around with it. Its a nice little gadget. hey, maybe i can come up with a new way to deal with all MBA's "problems"

Like buying more itunes movies than DVD disc..
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post #62 of 154
2/4/08 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Frankly I'm not sure if there is any other point to this article. It strikes me a passive form of flaming, fanboi-isms and utter crap. Far to much effort was expended in sugar coating the failings of the device.

Lets put it this way if something like disk performance sucked just say so. Let everybody know that it has been a very long time since disks this bad have been stuffed in to a computer.

Same thing for the GPU, if its performance is well below what is expected for the price class say so! The device being thin simply isn't an excuse for anything in this price range.

There is little point in an article that is not objective and straight forward.

I see a lot of people swearing up hill and down that they will get an AIR and be happy with it. Honestly I have to ask how can one be happy about laying out that much money and getting so little in return? Especially considering they haven't even experienced one first hand.

In many ways this reminds me of the G5 debut, a fine example of Apple smoke and mirrors marketing. The PPC processor in the G5 was a crappy example of processor engineering right from the start but Apple was pretty successful in averting everybody's eyes with charts of Alt-Vec performance. Like that really meant anything to the general user. The G5 was instantly behind the Intel processor of the day and and certainly any follow ons, so everybody with an Intel machine at the time was wondering if all Apple customers where that gullible. I see AIR as making the case that yep they are. It will be interesting to see how far AIR goes.


Dave

Not everyone wants what you want. Some people want portability, some want high performance, some wants cheap laptop. Clearly this notebook is not for you. But please stop bashing MBA just because its not what you want. Maybe other people want this laptop as badly as you want which ever laptop you like the best for different reasons.
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post #63 of 154
2/4/08 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

The machine has its problems but what I'm really angry about is the chearleading response from the media. A little perspective would help.

Dave


i dont think the media is cheerleading MBA. I know at least 3 or 4 article about how MBA will not be successful. But most of the time, These articles are written because the writers are getting paid to write what they think. So you cant be mad for someone stating their opinion
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post #64 of 154
2/4/08 at 3:57pm
For all the bashers: the Air is selling to it intended market. These are people who are very different from you and have different needs than you do. You also will likely not hear from them... they're too busy enjoying their new toys.

The Air is ranked
#1 at Apple Japan
#3 at Amazon Japan
#10 at Amazon US
and does not appear on the US Apple Store list (it only goes to 7)

The Air received heavy product placement in Japan the day of its release (it was released at around 3:00am and was on the national news casts at 7:00) and it seems to be paying off. There are plenty of people here (and elsewhere) for whom the Air will be a very satisfactory machine.

However, it does seem that there is greater demand for the Air outside of the US than inside; Apple might be trying to improve its standing internationally.

Sure, hopefully one day Apple will release something a bit smaller (an iPod Touch mega?) but that is again an entirely different product.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #65 of 154
2/4/08 at 4:16pm
A quick check of Apple stores shows the Air as the top seller in these countries:

Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and the UK

Looks like maybe the world was waiting for the AIr.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #66 of 154
2/4/08 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

A quick check of Apple stores shows the Air as the top seller in these countries:

Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and the UK

Looks like maybe the world was waiting for the AIr.

Nice data. I am not at all surprised.

There is, unfortunately, more than a little bit of "mine-is-bigger-than-yours," "faster-is-better," and "design-is-for-girlie-men" sophomoric quality to gadget discussions in the US. (See, e.g., engadget.com - which, I admit is always a hilarious read, but rarely enlightened, enlightening, or global - which is Exhibit A for this phenomenon).

I have seen some of that here too, but never as many as those on the topic of MBA. Childish.
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post #67 of 154
2/4/08 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I think that's expecting a bit much. High speed NAND doesn't drop that quickly in price

It could. The HD Handycam market should be a good enabler for speed, 32GB is the iPod sweetspot and let's face it, everyone really wants an SSD in their notebook.

McD
Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
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Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
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post #68 of 154
2/4/08 at 5:11pm
What surprises me, is that it isn't so light.

For my sins, I'm using a Toshiba R500, which is 762grams, which is 1.72 pounds. It has a CD drive built-in but a smaller screen. At 3 pounds the MacBook Air seems mighty heavy.

Even so, I would buy one in a flash, if I was able to easily access "Mobile Broadband", without needing a USB modem hanging off it. If it had an express card or PC card slot or if Steve had been a bit brighter and included a built-in facilty (just plug in a SIM card), then it would be truely mobile.
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post #69 of 154
2/4/08 at 5:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by philip456 View Post

Even so, I would buy one in a flash.... if Steve had been a bit brighter and included a built-in facilty (just plug in a SIM card), then it would be truely mobile.

No, you tru(e)ly would not.
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post #70 of 154
2/4/08 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by philip456 View Post

What surprises me, is that it isn't so light.

For my sins, I'm using a Toshiba R500, which is 762grams, which is 1.72 pounds. It has a CD drive built-in but a smaller screen. At 3 pounds the MacBook Air seems mighty heavy.

Even so, I would buy one in a flash, if I was able to easily access "Mobile Broadband", without needing a USB modem hanging off it. If it had an express card or PC card slot or if Steve had been a bit brighter and included a built-in facilty (just plug in a SIM card), then it would be truely mobile.

Smells like a troll.

Smaller screen = less weight.
Smaller keyboard = less weight.

Slower CPU
Less RAM

It is also more expensive than the Air and doesn't come with similar apps (iLife).

The only thing I could possibly like is the larger HD, but again I never use more than 50 GB on my laptop so 80 is fine for me.

Optical drive = wasted space and weight (I never use the optical on my laptop). If they got rid of this they would have a serious machine.

Lastly, it just doesn't look as good as an Air.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #71 of 154
2/4/08 at 7:39pm
"The Air is no slouch, but it isn't a hot, loud, battery hog either. I couldn't get it to make any significant heat or noise until I baked the unit until it was unpleasantly hot to the touch. Even then, the fan was rather quiet despite evacuating hot air pretty rapidly from the openings along the back edge."

Maybe I'm taking this too literal, but did you really stick it in the oven and bake it?!?
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post #72 of 154
2/4/08 at 7:45pm
This is all the same on every forum. "How dare Apple bring out a new laptop that's not a MacBook Pro for half the price and half the weight, that doesn't have a much smaller, yet somehow still legible display, and doesn't have a much smaller, yet somehow still useable keyboard, and tries to look good at the same time? Anything that looks good is ipso facto nothing but a toy! I'm never going to buy one, no-one else should ever buy one, if you do buy one I'm going to make your life a living Hell telling you what an idiot you are! Physics, Schmysics! I want what I want and if I can't have it, nobody can have anything! I JUST WON'T HAVE IT!

Edit: I've tried to submit this twice and the server's too busy. I wish I didn't think it was mostly to say what I just caricatured, but I know better!
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post #73 of 154
2/4/08 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotherBrain View Post

"The Air is no slouch, but it isn't a hot, loud, battery hog either. I couldn't get it to make any significant heat or noise until I baked the unit until it was unpleasantly hot to the touch. Even then, the fan was rather quiet despite evacuating hot air pretty rapidly from the openings along the back edge."

Maybe I'm taking this too literal, but did you really stick it in the oven and bake it?!?

MacBook Pro 17" Glossy 2.93GHz, iPad 64GB, iPhone 4 16GB, and a lot of other assorted goodies.

If you're a troll and you have been slain. Don't be a Zombie.
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MacBook Pro 17" Glossy 2.93GHz, iPad 64GB, iPhone 4 16GB, and a lot of other assorted goodies.

If you're a troll and you have been slain. Don't be a Zombie.
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post #74 of 154
2/4/08 at 8:04pm
the battery life sounds a bit weak to be honest.

I always thought the ultra portable market strived for a laptop that could go the full working day without a charge. Like that was the holy grail. The way i hear many of the people here they only use their ultra portable for 2 hours a day or something..........
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post #75 of 154
2/4/08 at 8:07pm
Perfect for me.
Don't need what it hasn't got.
Very happy with what it has.
No problem with the price.

I have read all of the above and found it fascinating. Thanks for the article and everyone's input. None of the criticisms bother me. It is human nature that people find it very difficult to imagine that their circumstance and experience are not widely shared.

By way of example, I know quite a few people who can consider the MBA and buy it without ever having to even look at the price. Nice to be them huh? Most people find the price to be critical... but not all.

If it is not for you, does it matter that others reach a different conclusion?
It is very difficult to reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into.
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It is very difficult to reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into.
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post #76 of 154
2/4/08 at 8:33pm
A few of you need to learn the definition of a troll- it is someone who posts things which are just ignorant statements to rile people up- not someone who simply states a realistic opinion that may go against Apple.

As for the MBA discussion it is very simple- the MBA is a thinner, lighter version of the MB. There is a relatively small performance drop, and some features taken away but the main difference is the size. It all comes down to whether or not the size is worth 700 dollars over the basic Macbook.

I think the main problem with the MBA is it is stuck between ultra portable and your standard laptop. Its too big for the people who want the very small 7 or 9 or 11 inch screens or whatnot but for the people who don't need that kind of size reduction the MB is just fine at 700 dollars less with the performance bump/features left in.
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post #77 of 154
2/4/08 at 8:49pm
Before anyone gets all defensive, I have nothing against the MacBook Air. That's just it, however. I read all 5 pages of this "review" and didn't learn anything. It didn't answer any of the 200+ questions posted in discussion of the lead-in article, "What's wrong with the MacBook Air," nor did it supply any facts about the system that I hadn't found elsewhere (such as Steve's keynote). The article explains the design trade-offs in subjective terms. It reads like pure marketing material. That's not what I call "in-depth review."

People asked some really simple-to-answer questions about the MBA in the lead-in discussion, if you have your hands on one, and we got no more recognition than helping to...
Quote:
"underscore the fact that the Air has captured the attention of customers both with its new form factor and with its controversial design tradeoffs engineered to deliver its thin profile and light weight."

What a wasted opportunity to share some experience from actually using the device. According to the lead-in article:
Quote:
we managed to snag the one of the few available HDD-based units from one of the company's San Francisco outlets and have set to work on an in-depth review of its ins and outs.

Based on the content, I have to wonder whether the author has done more than touch a display model at Macworld like all the other reviewers so far. I'm considering getting a MBA but I want to know more before making the purchase. Reading this article wasted my time. Please try again and listen to your readers, this time.
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post #78 of 154
2/4/08 at 9:04pm
Here are the questions asked only on Saturday, Feb 2, which were largely ignored by the article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

"Given the new restrictions upon carrying extra batteries on airplanes,..." is an irrelevant comment.
The new restrictions do NOT affect people who want to carry an extra laptop battery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomelife View Post

A comparison chart of the application speeds between MB, MBA and MBP would be nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Is the screen really glass?

2) How much do the separate components weigh? Specifically the battery and case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arhnow View Post

1. How long does the battery last?

2. How easy is it to transfer files/programs from one computer to the "air"?

3. Under normal room temperatures (say an airplane) is the "airs" cpu slowed down after extended use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasein View Post

What I'm very concerned with is the physical durability of the laptop. It's so thin at the opening end I'd be concerned with wear and tear after a few months. How fragile is this thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenstee View Post

Am I the only one lamenting the lack of on-board CD/DVD capability? To me that is a must. And no, I'm not interested in carrying the portable accessory CD/DVD.

- Ability to start up from a disk in case of a crash or hard disk problems
- Ability to easily install apps
- Watch DVDs on those long flights

My question is about wireless reception. Apple hasn't exactly been known for it's stellar wireless reception - expecially on MBPs. How is it on the Air? It's even more critical given that it is the only link from the Air to the outside world.

Why or why couldn't they have made a MBP 12" instead of or in addition to the Air?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iextreme View Post

Hey,

These are my questions:

1.) Apple states up to 5h battery time with wireless. Can you confirm that?

2.) What's the average battery time if you turn off the wireless and mainly use Office and perhaps iTunes for music playback?

3.) How do you consider the MBA's performance in iMovie '08?
I currently run the app on my PB G4 and it's not bad, but not optimal, and I plan to use it a lot more in the coming months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eyce9000 View Post

My question

-if you plug in an unpowered USB hub will it have enough power to run the DVD drive as well as one or two other peripherals?

Except for the lack of a second USB port (usually need 1 for a USB hub and one for a KVM switch) i think it has the perfect amount of ports. I have had a powerbook for the last 3 years and only ever use USB and only use my superdrive to burn the occasional Ubuntu disk or watch a DVD, but honestly most of my videos are on USB hds anyhow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I guess the external drive or another machine is a must have for someone with your concerns. I thought there was a way for the MBA to boot into a mode that would allow Disk Utility to run without any disk. Like a small, hidden partition with the appropriate apps installed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyapple View Post

The Air has the same screen size and resolution as the MacBook, but is LED back-lit like the 15" MacBook Pro. So how would you say the quality of the display stacks up in comparison?

ThanX

Quote:
Originally Posted by pesc View Post

I'm a MBA hater because I use a 12" G4 PB as my main machine. I travel a lot and commute 2 hours per day on a train between a desk at work and another desk at home. Both desks have a real keyboard, mouse and a large screen that I connect to.

Since Apple discontinued the 12" model there was no laptop that Apple offered that I was interested in - they were all too large.

I really want an MBP 12". The reason I hate the MBA is because its presence makes me believe Apple wont ever produce a good 12" PB replacement.

The good part about the MBA is the weight. And it looks good.

But it has a larger footprint!
http://mbp12.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=9

It has less hard disk space than I can have in my 12" PB

2G memory is a little bit too small. One of the reasons an intel machine is interesting to me is the ability to run a virtual machine with Linux or Solaris.

Meanwhile I'll upgrade my 12" PB with a larger disk. If it should die tomorrow I would buy a used 12" PB (and I have the money to buy the MBA SSD, but it isn't interesting for me).

Glossy

I don't care about the missing FW, ethernet, optical drive, "non-replaceable" battery, low CPU speed or cost.

The single USB port worries me. So my question to MBA reviewers is: How much power can the MBA USB port deliver? Is there a non-powered USB hub to buy that can power a (small) external USB hard drive while charging an iPod?

I'll look again on the next revision of MBA (in a year?). Maybe then the drive and RAM has doubled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That is another question We should ask. Does the MBA's Ethernet max out at the maximum actual throughput of USB2.0? In other words, Is it a theoretical 480Mbps, essentialy 1/2 the throughput of 1000BASE-T?


Cook. New bookmark.



Just prior to the announcement of the MBA one Chinese manufacturer announced that it will be no longer making 1.8" drives. After all, SSD dominates the PMP market so it wasn't a surprise. I'm sure we'll see some increased capacities but I think the use of the HDD in the MBA is just a stop-gate until the prices of SSD comes down.

Welcome to AI, tshort & brianb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

I'd love to see game tests--NOT the usual fps benchmarks at high detail levels (which would tell me nothing--we know this only has X3100). I'd like to know...

...what fps can the game achieve at lowest detail settings?

...what are the highest detail settings that can achieve a reasonably consistent 30fps?

This would be nice to know (under Mac OS, preferably) for UT2004, WoW, EA's Cider games, and other titles that may not be the latest thing, but are still for sale and still great fun. I'd also like this info for idTech 4 games (Doom 3, Quake 4, Prey, and soon Quake Wars). I'd gladly drop detail levels to the lowest and still appreciate being able to game on an ultraportable.

I don't expect the very latest generation of games (UT3, Gears of War) to run tolerably on X3100. But I've seen good results from other engines (at low detail) on recent X3100 MacBooks.

Also, I'd like to see results before and after 10.5.2, in the hopes that the mediocre X3100 drivers are improved.
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post #79 of 154
2/4/08 at 9:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

And curse it though you may, Apple does provide the add-on USB-Ethernet thing. I thought that was a terribly good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Yet you don't see the conflict in logic here. I mean if an USB to Ethernet adapter is such a good thing then maybe a AIR supplied Ethernet port would be even better? I'd be the first to admit though that such an adapter would not be that bad of a solution if AIR simply had been supplied with more USB ports.

Just because a USB to Ethernet adapter is a good thing, that does NOT necessarily mean that built-in Ethernet is even better. It simply means Apple recognizes that SOME people may need Ethernet. The fact that they left it out of the laptop means they felt that MOST people would not. Whether you fall into the first group or the second, they got you covered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

For one thing I doubt very much that the expansion of the device to include more I/O would have had a significant impact on its weight. It is not like a lot of extra chips are required.

That's not the point at all. It's about the non-zero amount of space inside the case. Those chips take up space (space which might be occupied by, for instance, battery) and this is some of the tightest engineering you've ever seen.

Personally, I'm delighted as hell that they decided to maximize screen size and minimize weight. I think that's the right way to go. A lot of once-standard functions got tossed, but when you're going for 3 pounds, you do have to be ruthless. If I were going to complain about the thing, I think I'd say that I wished Apple hadn't been so married to the "3 pounds" target. Those sloped edges, I'd have preferred them to square off and fill with battery. But like I say, I recognize that they set their parameters and pursued them ruthlessly. And in the end, they have an absolutely amazing piece of engineering. Will I abandon my MBP 17"? Probably not. I use Maya, and the tradeoffs for the MBA simply aren't aimed at me. But I'll smile with wonder everytime I see someone with an MBA, all the same.

Not every new product at Apple is aimed at me. And THANK GOD FOR THAT. I couldn't afford it otherwise
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post #80 of 154
2/5/08 at 12:08am
I am seeing people explain away the airs failings by saying that it has a certain market.

This is obvious.

But noone can justify why this product is so pricey - ultra protables are $400 - $750 for pretty similar functionality to the air. I admit that other apple computers are priced aggresivley.

But this Is apple cashing in on peoples idiocity when it comes to products like this, and things that look kind of nice.

Plus I'm not a troll, because I know that this will sell well, which is not what i am arguing about. I am saying that if consumers had sense they will realize that this product isn't that great.
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