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Apple among those considering rival bid for Yahoo? - Page 2

post #41 of 89
No way Apple is interested in Yahoo. Yahoo is big into advertising and it's not part of Apple's ethic to enter into the realm of marketing/advertising anything except their own products. Microsoft has offered far above the share price for a dying company...let them waste $40 Billion on it.
post #42 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodstains View Post

Thats an awfully biting comment to make without anything to back it up. Would you like me to explain it to you more slowly?

It's a total waste of your time- trust me.
He still doesn't understand how streaming DVD video from a laptop to an ATV would be a good thing.
post #43 of 89
The answer to this question lies in the 30th anniversary of Apple.
Everybody thought Apple would celebrate it with a special kind of product (limited version)

But Steve surprised everybody by stating : "Apple is a company of the future.'
No special stuff was launched.

Apple will use its cash to buy companies with future technology as they did with FingerWorks.

Yahoo is an old woman with no vision and future direction.
But so is Microsoft.
It's no surprise that this comes only a month after the boss with a vision (even if I am an Apple fan) left the company.

The next few years are gonne be (again) very exciting and give room for new start ups and new technology.
Because these old companies try to hold on what they have and try to stick together...
post #44 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

How much cash does MSFT have?

I believe I read that it is something on the order of $48 billion so the Yahoo! purchase would bring them to a minimum cushion of $3 billion.

Apple, by contrast, has somewhere around $16 billion in cash. (Adobe's market cap is about $20 billion today).
post #45 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Eyeballs aren't the product because they aren't providing them in any way. Eyeballs would be the customers in your example.

But the customers in their subscriber base really is the main asset here, as well as the advertising network. If Yahoo had no subscriber base then there would be little point in buying them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Google developing Android put them in direct competition with Apple. Business is Business..Apple will partner with Google where it sees fit and compete where they must.

The competition is mostly tangential, not direct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I bet that Apple has a Photoshop competitor ready for market just in case of something like a Microsoft buyout of Adobe.

There is a huge ecosystem for Photoshop, and I don't think replacing photoshop is enough, because there's enough need for the related products too.
post #46 of 89
The only reasons that I could see Apple ever considering buying Yahoo! is for the vast servers that Yahoo! currently owns, the IM agent (to add yet more functionality), and the portals. Everything else is crap.

One thing that has not been discussed is an Apple/Google joint buyout of Yahoo!. I am not sure if that can be legally done, but it does offer some incentives to both companies; wheras just one purchasing Yahoo! would have quite the mess on their hands.
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post #47 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Then more of a reason to buy up Adobe and combine the two apps into the best CS ever written. The mere thought of Apple owning Flash, PS, and PDF makes me tingle. The could also take the good parts of Aperture, the good parts of Lightroom and combine them to make a "killer app".

Is Adobe in some sort of financial trouble? Personally, Adobe has become a real large bug that needs to be squashed. Photoshop is great, but the other Apps? Dreamweaver is a real pain, Go Live is a pain, Acrobat is a pain, I don't know about Illustrator, even Flash has become quirky.

Adobe's management and bungling (can anyone say Pointy-Haired Boss?) has caused the destruction of many stellar apps, and made them to the point where they are almost unusable.
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post #48 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

How much cash does MSFT have?

Around $30B I believe. They were in the high 50's a few years ago but they've done a lot of acquisitions and paid a lot of dividends. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's around 30 now.

Oh, and I don't see Apple having any capability to do an acquisition like Yahoo. The idea is preposterous. Even if they put up $15B in cash, say, they'd have to trade 1/4 of the company to Yahoo shareholders to put in a realistic bid. Not going to happen.

Also, big mergers rarely succeed and are incredibly dangerous, because you're combining so many employees with different expectations and different traditions.
post #49 of 89
Would AAPL want to get into a bidding war for YHOO with MSFT? Don't think so. If AAPL acquired YHOO, what value would such a purchase add? In my opinion, nothing!
post #50 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhamad View Post

Around $30B I believe. They were in the high 50's a few years ago but they've done a lot of acquisitions and paid a lot of dividends. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's around 30 now.

At 12/31/07, Microsoft had total current assets of 37.775B with cash and short-term investments of $21.076. Microsoft's current offer is half-cash, half-stock - from the press release:
Quote:
Microsofts proposal would allow the Yahoo! shareholders to elect to receive cash or a fixed number of shares of Microsoft common stock, with the total consideration payable to Yahoo! shareholders consisting of one-half cash and one-half Microsoft common stock.

Microsoft will likely need to borrow money to complete this transaction which is something that will be new to them in recent years.
post #51 of 89
The only reason for Apple to buy Yahoo would be to get around anti-trust, buy purchasing it for their best buddy Google.

It would be a killoff. Waaaaaay to expensive. But it's a wet dream for killing microsoft
post #52 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

But the customers in their subscriber base really is the main asset here, as well as the advertising network. If Yahoo had no subscriber base then there would be little point in buying them.

Companies that sell advertising space are media companies: they own broadcast stations, billboards, websites or other places to place advertising. While advertising is the end-game, I think Microsoft's short-term goal is adding all the additional "billboards" that Yahoo currently owns - portal, mail, IM and Flickr, in particular.
post #53 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

Buying Yahoo would put AAPL in more direct competition with
Google, currently a close ally. I can't see it happening.

I was scrolling down the posts to see if someone would notice that.

I'm surprised it took so long.

That's correct. Why would Apple want to go directly into compitition with Google? I can't see that.

Apple would also have to offer more than $45 billion to get into the bidding. If MS really wants this, they would likely go higher.

Apple doesn't have that amount of cash, and so would have to go into debt, and or, offer stock.

I don't see them as doing either.

I remember last year, when Scientific Atlanta went on the block for about $7.5 billion. There were rumors there as well.
post #54 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post

No way Apple is interested in Yahoo. Yahoo is big into advertising and it's not part of Apple's ethic to enter into the realm of marketing/advertising anything except their own products. Microsoft has offered far above the share price for a dying company...let them waste $40 Billion on it.

Yahoo has already been in talks with google to outsource their advertising division which from personal experience is lackluster and can generate larger profits for them under google. All Apple has to do is follow through on that.
post #55 of 89
Apple wouldn't compete with Google, it would only buy Yahoo, for their partner Google, and use it as such. The only way Apple would buy would be to do google a huge favor.
post #56 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Google developing Android put them in direct competition with Apple. Business is Business..Apple will partner with Google where it sees fit and compete where they must.

I'd say that Apple could stratify a Yahoo purchase more cleanly by breaking Yahoo into functional BU and then sell off what they don't need (Advertising etc)

That's one product, and most analysts have said that it wouldn't compete with Apple's iPhone, in response to the very same comments you are using.

But, Yahoo broarly competes with Google. At the very least, SHmitt would leave Apple's board, and would be considered to be a major competitor.

how long would Google's Apple software initiatives last? Not very long.

An interesting article in the NY Times today talked about this deal.

It's considered that Yahoo is spent. Many of its engineers have left, or are leaving. Its Ad revenue is falling, along with MS's, while Google's is rising.

Being bought by a larger company, even if it is Apple, would hasten that exodus.

A bad deal all around.
post #57 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebrie View Post

Yahoo has already been in talks with google to outsource their advertising division which from personal experience is lackluster and can generate larger profits for them under google. All Apple has to do is follow through on that.

To say Yahoo!'s advertising division is lackluster is quite an understatement. I think it's appallingly bad and confusing. Google's could easily use some improvement too, but at least I can use it. Yahoo! / Overture isn't even useable.
post #58 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhamad View Post

Around $30B I believe. They were in the high 50's a few years ago but they've done a lot of acquisitions and paid a lot of dividends. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's around 30 now.

Oh, and I don't see Apple having any capability to do an acquisition like Yahoo. The idea is preposterous. Even if they put up $15B in cash, say, they'd have to trade 1/4 of the company to Yahoo shareholders to put in a realistic bid. Not going to happen.

Also, big mergers rarely succeed and are incredibly dangerous, because you're combining so many employees with different expectations and different traditions.

MS will have to borrow for the first time to do this.

There is no way that Apple can afford this aquisition wiithout putting itself in heavy debt.

Someone proposed that Apple buy a phone company. Now that is a real joke.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/techn...gy&oref=slogin
post #59 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

They most certainly were opened. I've read some bizarre things on the internet but I never thought I'd read something so "back-asswards" as that without an attending " j/k" or some laughing emoticon. I sometimes forget that a rudimentary education isn't a prerequisite for using the internet.

The eyeballs are the product, the advertisers are the customers - was always thus. How do you think it works?
post #60 of 89
Apple will most definitely not be bidding for Yahoo. Steve'll be rolling around the boardroom floor at that one.
post #61 of 89
News Corp is not going to make a bid for Yahoo.

Might want to edit your story for accuracy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7227599.stm
post #62 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Then more of a reason to buy up Adobe and combine the two apps into the best CS ever written. The mere thought of Apple owning Flash, PS, and PDF makes me tingle. The could also take the good parts of Aperture, the good parts of Lightroom and combine them to make a "killer app".

I agree. Then take development off Windozzz like M$ did with Bungie and Halo.
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post #63 of 89
Yahoo! is on the wrong side of the growth and innovation curve, and has been for a while now. It is incredibly expensive. Microsoft would need to sink so much cash it would have to borrow for the first time ever.

Within a year or two it would likely write off half the purchase price.

Which suits me fine.

But for Apple, with smaller reserves, to make such a huge mistake would not suit me at all. Apple would need to raise debt too, and that would bring in the bean counters. You can count on Apple trying to shave costs on hardware in an attempt to balance the books. It would be a huge distraction.

This thing just isn't happening.

Apple is moving forward to become a technology Bloomingdale's or Tiffany, not backwards to the dot-com era.
post #64 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Cuilla View Post

I would think that Yahoo! would be a distraction for Apple. Possibly as much (maybe slightly less) of a mistake as it will be for Microsoft.

However, I'd love to see some bidding force Microsoft to pay a few (10?) billion more, thus causing even more of a mess for Microsoft to find ways to justify this buyout.

Yahoo! is a "fixer upper" project I think. Probably has lots of great assets but probably lacks real focus. This is a perfect fit for Microsoft (sarcasm fully intended). This will keep Microsoft distracted for years trying to figure out a way to properly ruining the things that are good about Yahoo!

It would be a real challenge for Steve and his team to see how well they can shape up such a large organization (in a very different business) by Steve's sheer force of will. I suppose if anyone could do it, he can (making this a slightly smaller mistake for Apple). But it would scare me.

Apple's best strategic acquisition would be Adobe to get control of a bunch of decent software assets (including media content formats and technologies widely used on the Internet). Then partner closely with Google for the "cloud computing" side of things. Maybe even sell off .Mac to Google and much greater (and cooler) integration of Google with Leopard, Safari, iPhone, iPod touch, etc.

I think that's where I'd go if I were Apple.

Acquire Adobe - great. Pdf is still the king of electronic documents and OS X has it baked right in (Opens pdfs blazingly fast in Preview). Design/Image products are often used by Mac users so they will definitely sell. But, most of Apple's software right now is developed for mac-only (except Safari and iTunes for Windows). Do you think Apple wants to manage developing the software for both platforms? Perhaps they would rather continue improving OS X and their base software offerings.

Give .Mac to Google? I love using google, but everything is so half-finished and has toy-like simplicity. Apple products have sophisticated simplicity. Apple is better off making a beautiful interface to google's services. In the case of .mac, much of the beautiful simplicity is on the web. The photo galleries would become toyishly simple like Picasa web albums.
post #65 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbansprawl View Post

Acquire Adobe - great. Pdf is still the king of electronic documents and OS X has it baked right in (Opens pdfs blazingly fast in Preview). Design/Image products are often used by Mac users so they will definitely sell. But, most of Apple's software right now is developed for mac-only (except Safari and iTunes for Windows). Do you think Apple wants to manage developing the software for both platforms? Perhaps they would rather continue improving OS X and their base software offerings.

Give .Mac to Google? I love using google, but everything is so half-finished and has toy-like simplicity. Apple products have sophisticated simplicity. Apple is better off making a beautiful interface to google's services. In the case of .mac, much of the beautiful simplicity is on the web. The photo galleries would become toyishly simple like Picasa web albums.

PDF is an open standard now so that doesn't warrant any buying. I do think acquiring Adobe would be nice. Apple could write the next Windows versions to be more "Mac-like" like iTunes and Safari. Since it's a high-end product this may help more switchers and allow for a more unified transition from one platform to the next for those in video and graphic fields. Will they do it? i don't think so, but if I think the rumour looks like it's going to happen i will invest heavily into Adobe.

I also agree with your Google comments. They seem to be torn between a coder designed UI and simplisitc lack of features for ease of use. They don't meld the two well at all. Though .Mac has its uses it is still lacking in many ways. Speed, interactivity with with Mac apps and syncing all need to be worked on.

For example, even though my Address Book is correctly saved online the web interface willnot show any changes unless I manually sync for there. It also doesn't show all the info I have for my contacts, which is really a shame since it's easy to code with all vCard field defined. If they can make ,mac web-mail look and function like Mail.app they can make the address book look and function like Address Book.app.
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post #66 of 89
Quickest way to kill Apple is have it buy Yahoo. It would be like swallowing a poison pill.
post #67 of 89
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #68 of 89
Yahoo is a has been trash. A company like Apple could home grow a .mac into an empire easily. Make .mac free, and there you go. It would cost Apple less than $ 100 million to get 10 times the yahoo users.
post #69 of 89
Not a great buy for the price. I think Microsoft will get it, but it won't really be worth it. They are buying a database at this point, and I imagine it is going to turn out like the AOL/Warner buy.

But Microsoft has the cash. And it will make them think they are making progress.

Google would be the only other option, but that is even a worse anti-trust situation.

-M
http://cartoonshmartoon.blogspot.com/
post #70 of 89
I think Apple buying Yahoo would be cool. But not at this price range. Getting some cross Platform IM that works without begging for M$ mercy for a decent Messenger for Mac would be one.

Shaping the web against M$ Web Standard is another.
Intergating Itunes into Yahoo Portal would be one.
Making Yahoo default for Iphone?

All these are great. But just not worth 40 Billion.
post #71 of 89
1) Apple will not bid on Yahoo, let alone want to buy it.

2) Microsoft will buy it, and while trying to integrate whatever technologies that Yahoo may have that are good, will make a mess of the whole thing... but they will buy it.

In my opinion, Yahoo has been floundering to long and Google has just booted them out of the water. The only company that would want to buy Yahoo is Microsoft.

I don't see any real solid references to any company putting in a bid for Yahoo other than Microsoft, who expressed interest in early 2007, so they are actually truly interested.

I do agree that Apple should put a LOT more resources into .mac without infringing on Google. I think that a .mac and Google arrangement could be made that would benefit both companies without Apple having to put out many billions of dollars.

I repeat... Apple has no interest in Yahoo. They will partner with whomever provides them with the technology that will enhance their core business(es) and I agree with the person who said they will have a keen eye open for smaller/startup companies with great technologies that can be incorporated into existing products and into products that Apple is already deeply invested in that we aren't yet aware about. Consider the iPhone with Multitouch that took 2 or 3 years to develop without us having any idea that Apple was getting into the phone market. Then they bring out the Touch. Both of those are leveraged on their existing asset of the Mac OS and the acquisition of technolgies from other companies.

My 2 cents.
post #72 of 89
I would love to see Apple or Google buying Yahoo because Microrosoft will never be able to defeat either AppYah or GooHoo.

Sachin
post #73 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by sachxn View Post

I would love to see Apple or Google buying Yahoo because Microrosoft will never be able to defeat either AppYah or GooHoo.

Sachin

Apple won't buy, or attempt to buy them. And if Google did, they would change their name to Google.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #74 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by sachxn View Post

I would love to see Apple or Google buying Yahoo because Microrosoft will never be able to defeat either AppYah or GooHoo.

Sachin

Oh, please! Haven't you read anything here?

Apple can't afford it, even if it were a good idea, which it isn't.

Google would never be allowed to buy it, even if it were a good idea, which it isn't.
post #75 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

Buying Yahoo would put AAPL in more direct competition with
Google, currently a close ally. I can't see it happening.

Not that i think apple should buy yahoo (it's too big a risk) but apple caring about what happens to a close ally?.. now that's an eye opener. Steve Jobs probably laughed his head off when he read that. I'm sure apple will get over screwing Google if it had to. Google too would get over screwing apple if the opportunity for them to do so ever came up. I'm not sure apple shareholders feel they owe google anything and vice versa.
post #76 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenoleno View Post

Yahoo is a has been trash. A company like Apple could home grow a .mac into an empire easily. Make .mac free, and there you go. It would cost Apple less than $ 100 million to get 10 times the yahoo users.

Ten times the yahoo users?.. wow, that would mean that apple would have over 50% of the computer market share (since .mac is basically for macs.. i'm pretty sure a windows user would never get .mac, even if apple was giving it away for free with some cash). So, the only thing holding apple from achieving a fantastic market share in computers is a free .mac right?.

Now i'm gonna make a comment

1. If you are a high school student, you are forgiven, while you may be smart, we don't expect you to really think quickly on your feet.

2. If you are a college student, i hope you are not just about to graduate.. if you are, please stay in school for 4 more years.

3. Do you have any ideas how many millions of users yahoo has?.. don't be confused by google search numbers.. google has search, yahoo actually has members. (you do realize that they are different type of companies right?). Even google, the wildly successfull search engine does not have 10 times more customers than yahoo and google could buy apple.

4. If you are not a college student but actually working, i hope it's not a job that demands critical thinking (like airplane manufacturing, or a similar job impacting the public). I'd hate to have to depend on anything you made or are involved in.

5. If .mac was that great, all mac users would have it. I'm a mac user and i don't have it. Making it free would not cause me to choose it over yahoo (i would definitely try it out though). Yahoo has paid services.. people actually pay to use yahoo services when they could have paid to use .mac. Obviously, .mac is not the greatest thing since sliced bread else people would pay for it rather than use yahoo paid services.

Really, is it too much to ask people to think before they type?
post #77 of 89
This is just silly. Apple is a hardware company that also sells software, mostly as a value-add to make it easier to sell their hardware for a big profit (a Macbook that costs about $500 to make sells for $1400, if it wasn't for MacOS/X and the rest of Apple's software they'd have to sell it for $600 like all those Windows loser companies like HP). Yahoo, on the other hand, is a pure portal play that wouldn't sell any Apple hardware. Not a good fit. Apple needs to buy stuff that sells Apple hardware, not stuff that has nothing to do with their core business of selling Apple hardware. I really can't see Steve Jobs being that stupid.
post #78 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by badtux View Post

Apple is a hardware company that also sells software

What makes you say that?
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post #79 of 89
This would actually be an excellent fit for Apple, but the up front costs would probably be too high for Apple to jump on. It would free Apple from their dependency on Google, give Apple a massive (and social) userbase, and also a considerable number of quality web services. With a little vision and done right, it could give Apple the ".Mac" service that Apple otherwise could only dream of ... and might possibly not get another shot at.

But, the question is if it's worth $45+ billion to do it though.
post #80 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmjoe View Post

But, the question is if it's worth $45+ billion to do it though.

That question isn't important when you look at the first question: can Apple afford it. Apple has around 16B in cash. Microsoft's offer is cash+stock mix, so even if you assume Apple spent all 16B in cash, they'd need to give away 25-30B in stock to top Microsoft's offer. That's about 1/4th of Apple's market cap. No way anybody on Apple's board is going to give away 1/4th the company's value in stock. Also Apple's market cap dropped around 35% lately, so they don't have the stock value to toss around like they used to. Any decently sized company will never agree to an all-cash transaction, especially in a hostile takeover--the more stock involved, the more shareholders that have to vote yes, and getting them to vote yes usually means giving up a boatload of cash, paying off existing debt, etc.

Even Adobe would be a stretch for Apple. Adobe has a market cap of 20B, but to buy them (which would be an unsolicited/hostile takeover) you'd need 25-30B at least. Even if the board approves using most of their cash, you are left with anywhere from a 5-15B shortfall depending on cash used.
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