Originally Posted by ShawnJ
Yeah, tell us, SJO, what change is
practical and achievable?
Nothing, in a word. Under the current state of play, there is no foreseeable change that can qualify as genuine change. Under Hillary and Obama, change isn't even on the cards, despite all the clever "rhetoratory" (is that a real word?) . There are no electable candidates lined up who can effect change. I don't even acknowledge that the fringe candidates (ostracized by the media) would be able to effect change, even in the extreme unlikelihood of their being nominated (let alone winning the White House). Before there is any possibility of "change" occurring, we need to fix our election system to allow third party candidates with the interest of the people (who??) in mind to be in with a realistic chance. This will require a set of Constitutional amendments.. and is there any chance of the Republicrat status quo approving changes that undermine the Republicrat stranglehold on the system? Silly question of course. And even in the event of a 3rd party candidate (left or right) winning the presidency after electoral changes have been enacted, a change of CEO isn't going to do much to fix a M.O. that has been fundamentally messed up for decades, and progressively deteriorating.
On the other hand, there is highly visible change already happening
, but it is not the kind of change that you, and other liberals are supposedly yearning for. Whether its Obama, Clinton, Huckabee or McCain in the White House, the change towards a society that few ordinary people truly welcome will not be arrested. This change is the inexorable march towards a society where there is no privacy, government is more self-serving and less accountable to the people, officials are increasingly less accessible to the public (more so the higher up the government spectrum), secrecy re. official business is the rule rather than the exception, maximum security is priority #1, surveillance is ubiquitous, cash becomes increasingly obsolete, the gap between the haves and have-nots widens exponentially, war is a first resort rather than a final action, and fear is the primary tool used to keep the rabble in line by the federal government aided by an increasingly centralized and complicit media... amongst many many others.
That kind of negative change, already happening now, will be maintained, whether a democrat or republican is in the White House.
You act as if Obama and Clinton have the bona fide option of being to the left of *Karl Marx* and just choose not to be. Time and time again, you refuse to acknowledge that there are some things that are politically impossible. You have no recipe for achieving and sustaining a liberal majority, only pie-in-the-sky demands. Obama (and Hillary in particular with her stellar health care plan) are coming the closest to change than we've seen in the longest time.
You misunderstand what I said. I am merely having a gripe and voicing my disquiet. I have no demands. I have no expectations. (Expectation is a prison anyway). People are under some lah-de-dah pink-tinted impression/vision that a democrat like Clinton and Obama will successfully enact some magic panacea to fix the last 7 horrible years of wholesale crime, mass murder, corruption, cronyism, fearmongering, federally sponsored terrorism, wars based on lies, gross economic mismanagement and all the rest of the sick and sorry mess we now find ourselves. You talk about Hillary's "stellar health plan"... it's never
going to get off the ground, I guarantee you. It's probably just election rhetoric anyway.I have no answers for you
. Just don't get suckered into some bogus insincere BS regurgitated by a pair of slick, wellfunded DC establishment shills like Clinton and Obama (or McCain or Huckabee). The complex program and policy set that sprang into action within hours of the Twin Towers going down will continue apace, with more efficiency than what has happened under the reign of King Chimpy "Codpiece" McFlightsuit. I don't welcome that possibility, or eventuality, in the least
I feel the only way positive change is going to happen, is the way it has happened historically: ie when so many people get so angry and pissed that they take matters into their own hands. However, such a drastic course of events is never going to happen in the US, no matter what. Even a full scale stock market collapse and subsequent depression worse than 1929 and the early 1930s isn't going to generate enough discomfort to trigger the general unrest needed to enable a real changing of the guard.
I feel the 232 year old experiment in liberty and self determination is over, "bar the shouting".
And what are you doing? Voting for Ron Paul? That's damn near irresponsible for a liberal.
If liberals want Clinton or Obama, their best chance lies in the continued presence of Paul's campaign, by splitting the Republican/Conservative vote, just as Ross Perot did in 1992. Without the Perot/Reform Party vote (19%, largely disgruntled conservatives), another 4 years of G.H.W. Bush would have been a definite..