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iPhone's share of US smartphone market rises to 28 percent - Page 2

post #41 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

Well except for the little part where unless you have an iPhone to pay that cut to Apple you PAY MORE! I got 2 iPhones and added the data plans compared to our old no-data "free POS Samsungs" and our monthly mobile bill has gone down about $15/month!

Arguing the cell carriers are gouging customers will only get agreements, arguing the iPhone is making it worse when it lowers the gouge just doesn't seem to add up.

You think that the carriers are not passing the Apple bills to the customers?
post #42 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Estimates are estimates, doesn't make them true.

At least they have more credulity than your off the cuff statements.


Quote:
Two questions.

Why did ATT cut the price for the iPhone in the first place?

Why would ATT cut the price further if they weren't sharing revenue with Apple?

Your questions can't be answered, just guessed at. But I see that even you are agreeing that they must be sharing revenue (which we do know to be true).
post #43 of 71
If you are referring to me, then you are making a big mistake. I've never said that the iPhone is a failure. I'm simply willing to acknowledge that sales out of the US are not as high as predicted. Is that a problem?

Being successful in business means seeing reality, not simply what you want to see. Apple's sales in Europe are lower than expectations. It's not a disaster. I've said this several times. It means that Apple and their carriers have to take a long look at why that's true, and re-tool.

What works in the US doesn't always work elsewhere. This isn't just Apple's problem, it's the problem of many manufacturers. It's true there as well.

I'm just saying that we have to recognize it.
post #44 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

If you are referring to me, then you are making a big mistake. I've never said that the iPhone is a failure. I'm simply willing to acknowledge that sales out of the US are not as high as predicted. Is that a problem?

This was my previous response to bavlondon2 :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kephisto View Post

It was addressed to the topic in general, bavlondon2, not exclusively to you. If what you've posted applies to what I've said, then you're included, not singled out. I hope this clarifies my position on the subject.

Perhaps saying it this way will be helpful :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kephisto View Post

It was addressed to the topic in general, melgross, not exclusively to you. If what you've posted applies to what I've said, then you're included, not singled out. I hope this clarifies my position on the subject.

For future reference, towards any and all forum members, past, present, and future, whether activate, inactive, or otherwise suspended, domestic or foreign, in English or any other recognized language, the following statement should clarify my position on the subject :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kephisto View Post

It was addressed to the topic in general, (insert your forum name here), not exclusively to you. If what you've posted applies to what I've said, then you're included, not singled out. I hope this clarifies my position on the subject.
post #45 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kephisto View Post

This was my previous response to bavlondon2 :



Perhaps saying it this way will be helpful :



For future reference, towards any and all forum members, past, present, and future, whether activate, inactive, or otherwise suspended, domestic or foreign, in English or any other recognized language, the following statement should clarify my position on the subject :

I appreciate that, but you painted with a broad brush. It was difficult to sort out just how you were looking at the canvas.
post #46 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I appreciate that, but you painted with a broad brush. It was difficult to sort out just how you were looking at the canvas.

Understood, melgross. With my warped sense of humor, perhaps I should have just used the (insert your forum name here) version from the start.
post #47 of 71
Quote:
At least they have more credulity than your off the cuff statements.

I'm not saying that I do know. My point is that no one knows for sure except Apple and its partners.

For example before MW 08 speculation was iTunes had Fox and possibly Warner Bros. for movie rentals. No one supposedly in the know knew that Apple had signed deals with every major studio.

Quote:
Your questions can't be answered, just guessed at. But I see that even you are agreeing that they must be sharing revenue (which we do know to be true).

The carriers have confirmed that they share revenue with Apple. But you still haven't answered how ATT is passing the additional cost on to me.

Quote:
Being successful in business means seeing reality, not simply what you want to see. Apple's sales in Europe are lower than expectations. It's not a disaster. I've said this several times. It means that Apple and their carriers have to take a long look at why that's true, and re-tool.

I would agree with this completely if over all iPhone sales and carrier subscriptions were the same number. Discounting what ATT has sold in the US, over all iPhone sales are over four times as large as the number of subscribers O2, Orange, and T-Mobile have signed to iPhone plans.

The number of subscribers O2, Orange, and T-Mobile have signed has less to do with demand for the iPhone and more to do with demand for O2, Orange, and T-Mobile.
post #48 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kephisto View Post

Let's see what happens when the 3G iPhone with 16 (or more) GB comes out this year in the United States, along with supported third party software using AT&T's expanded 3G network.

If it's unlockable, I'd love it. It'll definitely destroy the rest of the market in the US, locked or not. But if it's locked, it still won't sell a fraction of what it could in Europe and Asia. I don't mean just 50% less...

The reason I said the iPhone is a failure in Europe isn't because they sold only 90,000 in France when they could have sold maybe 120,000. It's because I believe it it were sold unlocked at the regular price, they would have sold 300,000. They would sell half a million in Hong Kong alone if they sell it unlocked. If locked, 3G or not, they'll sell maybe 50,000. To me, that's a failure. It's a failure of potential, anyway. And it's a failure to understand the market.

The iPhone is a resounding success in the US, where people accept lock-ins, and can only get bigger. But in other markets, they need to offer it fully and completely unlocked.
post #49 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

If it's unlockable, I'd love it. It'll definitely destroy the rest of the market in the US, locked or not. But if it's locked, it still won't sell a fraction of what it could in Europe and Asia. I don't mean just 50% less...

The reason I said the iPhone is a failure in Europe isn't because they sold only 90,000 in France when they could have sold maybe 120,000. It's because I believe it it were sold unlocked at the regular price, they would have sold 300,000. They would sell half a million in Hong Kong alone if they sell it unlocked. If locked, 3G or not, they'll sell maybe 50,000. To me, that's a failure. It's a failure of potential, anyway. And it's a failure to understand the market.

The iPhone is a resounding success in the US, where people accept lock-ins, and can only get bigger. But in other markets, they need to offer it fully and completely unlocked.


You are 100% spot on. Those "missing" iPhones are in the hands of someone, probably the unlocking crowd and now that a software unlock has been found, the number will more than likely rise once again. AT&T shops in the US are bleeding unlockable phones at the moment. At $399, this is still a bargin. An iPod with phone (this is really what the iPhone is), that can be used on any network now (via unclock software proceedure) is a great bargin at the moment as no one knows how the 16 gigers are going to fair in the hands of hackers.
post #50 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

If it's unlockable, I'd love it. It'll definitely destroy the rest of the market in the US, locked or not.

Ok, since it's not exactly a corporate secret, negotiations in the United States could take another year (or two), and some members here are completely missing the advantages for both Apple and AT&T to having a locked iPhone, I'll mention a specific deal AT&T is working on. It is one among many.

So here it is :

AT&T is working on gaining the rights so across the United States, anyone with AT&T service can call anyone else with AT&T service, days and nights, weekdays and weekends, both local and long distance, for free. It will no longer matter if you have AT&T for your house, business, or cell phone – it will be considered the same and your calls with other AT&T users (house, business, and cell phone) will be free.

Right now, any one of over two million Americans with an iPhone can contact any other American with an iPhone, both local and long distance, and talk for hours, for free. That’s on any day, at any time, regardless of what type of iPhone plan each has. They can even set up a three way conference call and none of them will be charged in minutes – again, for free.

In the future, once AT&T successfully completes the deal, all bets are off and they win the cell war. For those that have an iPhone, which is AT&T, then switch their home or business phone to AT&T, they get the entire package. Until 2012, AT&T is the exclusive carrier for the iPhone. AT&T and Apple then change their marketing, clearly stating that by using the iPhone you have unlimited free access to the internet, your email, and tens of millions of businesses, friends, and family, that have AT&T. Don't want an iPhone? They still win, so long as you choose a cell phone with AT&T service.

That’s whether the person you called (or being called from) has an AT&T cellular or landline service. Consider your own business – do you then stay with Verizon, Sprint, or Vonage, or do you switch to AT&T and gain free access to all calls with tens of millions of those that use AT&T, whether they have an iPhone or not? Also remember, by 2009 there will be over seven million Americans with the iPhone, all of them who will be charged in minutes if they call your business and you don’t use AT&T. Is that hard to understand? Switch to AT&T, problem solved.

Now, simply by adding AT&T recently offering iPhone plans for business customers and Apple improving support for Microsoft's Exchange, the expansion of AT&T’s 3G network, the upcoming new and improved iPhone models, increasing marketing for iTunes Wi-Fi, plus slowly but surely introducing .Mac to iPhone users, and possibly lowering the price of current iPhone models - it should all start to make business sense that AT&T and Apple are setting a formidable foundation for a new platform for services.

AT&T and Apple would be foolish to unlock the iPhone in the United States. They have so much to gain. So do we.



P.S. This is one of the "behind closed doors" reasons that Apple wants to grant exclusive rights to specific carriers in each country, whenever possible. Each carrier, within a year or two from now, can follow AT&T's example and demand rights so those with the iPhone, using their service, can freely exchanges calls with customers that have their landline service.

Just like negotiating music rights with iTunes, with millions of iPhone uses and AT&T serving as the leading example, Steve can aggressively negotiate such deals within each country. Such a deal is worth billions.
post #51 of 71
Now if AT&T will just stop selling iPhones around the world, they can be the only iPhone cell provide on the planet, hell the universe. Even the galaxy. What a proposition.
post #52 of 71
Discuss the iPhone but not the personal characteristics of each other or other posters in this forum.

Any more name calling will result in a permaban.
--Johnny
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post #53 of 71
Here's a link to a related topic that will increase market share of AT&T smartphones (and the iPhone), started today by sammick, named "Starbucks and free AT&T wireless". http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=84228 . JupiterOne and mowenbrown provided links to articles that go into more details.

Two statements from the New York Times's article include :

Quote:
Originally Posted by New York Times article

Monday's announcement boosts the number of AT&T hotspots in the U.S. to 17,000 -- the most in the nation. . . .

''Here we are with the nation's largest Wi-Fi network,'' Welday said. ''Consumer trends are clearly pointing toward an increased need and desire to access broadband outside the home and office -- what a terrific opportunity.''

AT&T also is giving Starbucks' more than 100,000 U.S. employees free wireless accounts and said it will soon extend the Wi-Fi at Starbucks to its wireless phone customers. The company announced no details or time frame for the expansion.

It will be interesting to see how many millions of songs and movies (let alone rentals) that are purchased through Wi-Fi iTunes and Starbucks this year in the United States, bringing millions of dollars in revenue to Apple, AT&T, and Starbucks.

With the writer's strike tentatively over (awesome, congrats to all involved parties), all that's left is hoping the SAG gets a fair contract too. Within two years, the AT&T deal (I stated previously) should be introduced as well. Apple and AT&T are certainly going full steam ahead. The iPhone is part of their plans, not all of it.
post #54 of 71
I'm one of those hoping/waiting for an unlocked iPhone. (or at least a TMobile version) I think it would do Apple good here in the States as well. There are many who have experienced AT&T's atrocious customer service and exorbitant rates and cannot be convinced to go back.

RIM, NOKIA, Samsung, etc span all cell carriers. Apple should do the same with their iPhone and gain even more sales instead of taking choice away from people.
post #55 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

I'm one of those hoping/waiting for an unlocked iPhone. (or at least a TMobile version) I think it would do Apple good here in the States as well. There are many who have experienced AT&T's atrocious customer service and exorbitant rates and cannot be convinced to go back.

RIM, NOKIA, Samsung, etc span all cell carriers. Apple should do the same with their iPhone and gain even more sales instead of taking choice away from people.

If you want an unlocked iPhone, you can get one in France. It is illegal to have locked phones in France. Other countries have variations on this law. For example here in Finland the iPhone is not allow if it bundled with a contract. Finnish law stipulates that all phones bundled with a contract have to be 3G enabled. One of the Finnish operators was approached by Apple but they turned Apple down due to the lack of 3G in the iPhone, as well as Finnish law.
post #56 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

If you want an unlocked iPhone, you can get one in France. It is illegal to have locked phones in France.

No, you cannot, and no, it's not. You're simply wrong.

It is illegal in France to tie a phone exclusively to only one carrier. All carriers must provide an alternative option, though they may do so at a premium. Apple sells nearly all of its phones in France fully locked to Orange.

Apple also sells a fraction of the iPhones sold in France (reportedly as much as 20%), at a huge markup (649 Euros), that will work with any French provider. These phones are still locked to French networks exclusively and cannot be used with SIM cards from other countries. They are not unlocked phones.
post #57 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

No, it's not. You're simply wrong.

It is illegal to tie a phone to only one carrier. Apple sells nearly all of its phones in France fully locked to Orange.

Apple also sells a fraction of the iPhones sold in France (reportedly as much as 20%), at a huge markup (649 Euros), that will work with any French provider. These phones are still locked to French networks exclusively and cannot be used with SIM cards from other countries. They are not unlocked phones.


Uhhhh.... No, I don't think I am wrong. French stores are selling unlocked phones. You can call Orange and ask for the nearest location to purchase an UNLOCKED phone and they will sell you one. They will also offer you an Orange contract but in the end you have the option to purchase either or.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/o...one-in-france/
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technolo...in_france.html

iLounge orignally reported that when the French phones were utilized on another network there were some cmpatibility issues. These were related to the iPhone software. Intitially there were compatibility files for only 4 countries (Germany, France, UK, US). However, Orange reported that these compatibility issues would be resolved with an upgrade, and has apparently done so.

Incidentally iWorld, a third party application, provided compatibility for iPhones that had been hacked.
post #58 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Uhhhh.... No, I don't think I am wrong. French stores are selling unlocked phones. You can call Orange and ask for the nearest location to purchase an UNLOCKED phone and they will sell you one. They will also offer you an Orange contract but in the end you have the option to purchase either or.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/o...one-in-france/
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technolo...in_france.html

iLounge orignally reported that when the French phones were utilized on another network there were some cmpatibility issues. These were related to the iPhone software. Intitially there were compatibility files for only 4 countries (Germany, France, UK, US). However, Orange reported that these compatibility issues would be resolved with an upgrade, and has apparently done so.

Incidentally iWorld, a third party application, provided compatibility for iPhones that had been hacked.

Ok. I was wrong. The iPhones are not "country locked". I had read an initial report that stated otherwise. However, it does seem like individually unlocked phones work better than the current unlocked phones from Orange (649 Euro).
post #59 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Ok. I was wrong. The iPhones are not "country locked". I had read an initial report that stated otherwise. However, it does seem like individually unlocked phones work better than the current unlocked phones from Orange (649 Euro).

No worries dude. 650 Euro is better than the 999 Euor they were charging in Germany. If you are interested in a 8 gig unlocked, let me know. I might be able to hook you up

Cheers
post #60 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

No worries dude. 650 Euro is better than the 999 Euor they were charging in Germany. If you are interested in a 8 gig unlocked, let me know. I might be able to hook you up

Cheers

If I want, I can get one here in HK for US$450, fully unlocked with firmware 1.1.3 with an agreement to upgrade when a new unlocked firmware is released.
post #61 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

If I want, I can get one here in HK for US$450, fully unlocked with firmware 1.1.3 with an agreement to upgrade when a new unlocked firmware is released.

If you can get a 16 gig for the same price I may have to send you $ 450.
post #62 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

If you want an unlocked iPhone, you can get one in France. It is illegal to have locked phones in France. Other countries have variations on this law. For example here in Finland the iPhone is not allow if it bundled with a contract. Finnish law stipulates that all phones bundled with a contract have to be 3G enabled. One of the Finnish operators was approached by Apple but they turned Apple down due to the lack of 3G in the iPhone, as well as Finnish law.

So I can grab one of those and stick my TMobile SIM card in it and have it work till when...the next update? I don't want to pay that kind of money and get it bricked by Apple. If they want my money they have to give me a legitimate choice. Otherwise I'll stick to TMobile and Blackberry.
post #63 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

So I can grab one of those and stick my TMobile SIM card in it and have it work till when...the next update? I don't want to pay that kind of money and get it bricked by Apple. If they want my money they have to give me a legitimate choice. Otherwise I'll stick to TMobile and Blackberry.

You did not read the links, or some of the recent posts. They are legal. They are official iPhones from Orange that have to be unlocked or can be locked to Orange. After 6 months, Orange has to unlock the locked phones if customers want.

So to answer your question. You can buy an unlocked phone from Orange (official iPhone partner) and because of French law, you can have a legally unlocked phone.
post #64 of 71
Another Apple product which has been declared a failure just like the Macbook Air has been declared, I wonder why the geniuses making these declarations aren't running their own corporations like Apple and making them successful.
post #65 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

You did not read the links, or some of the recent posts. They are legal. They are official iPhones from Orange that have to be unlocked or can be locked to Orange. After 6 months, Orange has to unlock the locked phones if customers want.

So to answer your question. You can buy an unlocked phone from Orange (official iPhone partner) and because of French law, you can have a legally unlocked phone.


I know it's legal but can I use an unlocked phone here in the US without worrying about the next update bricking it?
post #66 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

I know it's legal but can I use an unlocked phone here in the US without worrying about the next update bricking it?

I don't know how to answer your question other then yes. I hope this explains it well enough.
post #67 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

I don't know how to answer your question other then yes. I hope this explains it well enough.

Seems like I need to do some net searching then.

Thanks.
post #68 of 71
Quote:
Wow, I’m really glad I don’t work with some of you. Under some misguided (not being mean) business attitudes here, some of you would have put Microsoft, Apple, and even Ford, out of business in the first year alone.

You're just not capable of posting without the whole point being how clueless, incompetent, ignorant, and stupid the other posters are, right?

Last chance. Remove all the remarks about other posters.
--Johnny
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post #69 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy View Post

You're just not capable of posting without the whole point being how clueless, incompetent, ignorant, and stupid the other posters are, right?

Last chance. Remove all the remarks about other posters.

Sorry Lundy, not sure what you are talking about here?
post #70 of 71
It's a reply to Kephisto.
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post #71 of 71
Lundy can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that the mods care about how an argument goes in private posting, unless someone threatens another. It's the public posts they are concerned with.

And by the way, Kephisto, it's poor etiquette to publicly post private posts. They're private for a reason.
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