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AT&T plans 3G expansion ahead of second-gen iPhone - Page 3

post #81 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

To the guy that stands by his 2009 prediction, you are probably the closest of them all but only off by about 3 years. 3G is more than just base stations, it is billing systems, all new radios, all new infrastructure. The experts in the field, i.e. the European operators took only 7 years to get it almost correct and you think AT&T, the worse operator in the world will do it in 2. Good luck. Now I know why the iPhone was launched in the US. Apparently gullible people are easier to fool outright. Did anyone see Apple file with the FCC for licenses for the 3G radios in the new 3G iPhone? Nope, didn't think so. This takes about 6 months to a year as well.

Stick to EDGE. This is suited to the slower way of thinking. Apple and AT&T have been jerking you guys around and you fall for it hook line and sinker every time. In the mean time, Nokia will release its new TS UI phones that they have had on the shelf to see if they were marketable (kudos to Apple for show the world is now ready for TS UI), and their new Ovi music/social networking service.

By the way, EDGE uses more power than 3G. Don't forget to believe the Apple lie about this too.

Well I never said I was an expert, a stock analyst, or even a prophesier, I only was just making a point that it is NOT going to happen this year as several people make it out to be.
post #82 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by nofear1az View Post

Well I never said I was an expert, a stock analyst, or even a prophesier, I only was just making a point that it is NOT going to happen this year as several people make it out to be.

My bad nofear1az. It came across that you were speaking from a network position. My bad once again. 3G networks are not like the old 2.5G's. You can't reuse much. It is a totally new ball game.
post #83 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kephisto View Post

Don't worry about it, nofear1az. Ignore what sapporobaby said because he doesn't know what he's talking about. Verizon has fiber available to many major United States cities and they are aggressively installing more, much like AT&T with 3G. AT&T will accomplish most (if not all) of what it plans to do by the end of 2008. Combined with the upcoming 3G iPhone both Apple and AT&T will be greatly rewarded for their exclusive five year deal.

AT&T already has a functional 3G network in the United States. They were working on expanding it even before the first iPhone came out. Apple knew that, which is why Steve made the right choice to start with EDGE then release a 3G as, within a year later, AT&T would increase and intensify it's 3G coverage. AT&T is working on other features as well, which will have a very powerful advantage over other cellular services within the next year. Let's just say one of those features is tied up in legal affairs / negotiations between various parties, but once the details are completed AT&T will be well on its way to winning the cellular service market.

So from a hardware, software, billing, network, or any other aspect one considers implementing 3G in the United States, AT&T is charging ahead full steam. AT&Ts 3G network benefits all AT&T customers that have a 3G cell phone not just those with an iPhone. Because of that, they will accomplish their expansion this year.

You continue to say that I do not know what I am talking about have only our rabid mouth to back you up. You are cordially invited to prove me in correct. How many core elements will be usable from the old network into the new 3G network? Will they need new basestations or will the old ones work? How about antennas? Which ones will they use and the heights that they will be mounted.

nofear1az, contrary to what Mr. No Cred says, a 3G network is not a five minute rollout. AT&T will have a 3G network for sure but not to the extent that one might think. It is simply a big undertaking. The European operators took YEARS to do it, and some are still not done. 3G will come in spots, most likely the metropolitan areas first, then the rural areas. Its mainly up to the network designers and the build out plan. It was not a matter of Steve making the "right" choice but Steve making the only choice for the US. The lack of a cohesive 3G network tied his hands but did allow him to launch the iPhone with the next best thing. He approached the operators in Finland with the iPhone, arguably the most mature mobile market in the world but, was turned back because Finnish law requires that all subscription based phones have 3G services, which of course the iPhone currently lacks. The Finns were not about to change their laws to accommodate Apple so for the most part, the Scandinavian regions and Finland (Finland is not Scandinavian but actually Nordic) will most likely not see an iPhone for a bit.
post #84 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

You continue to say that I do not know what I am talking about have only our rabid mouth to back you up. You are cordially invited to prove me in correct. How many core elements will be usable from the old network into the new 3G network? Will they need new basestations or will the old ones work? How about antennas? Which ones will they use and the heights that they will be mounted.

nofear1az, contrary to what Mr. No Cred says, a 3G network is not a five minute rollout. AT&T will have a 3G network for sure but not to the extent that one might think. It is simply a big undertaking. The European operators took YEARS to do it, and some are still not done. 3G will come in spots, most likely the metropolitan areas first, then the rural areas. Its mainly up to the network designers and the build out plan. It was not a matter of Steve making the "right" choice but Steve making the only choice for the US. The lack of a cohesive 3G network tied his hands but did allow him to launch the iPhone with the next best thing. He approached the operators in Finland with the iPhone, arguably the most mature mobile market in the world but, was turned back because Finnish law requires that all subscription based phones have 3G services, which of course the iPhone currently lacks. The Finns were not about to change their laws to accommodate Apple so for the most part, the Scandinavian regions and Finland (Finland is not Scandinavian but actually Nordic) will most likely not see an iPhone for a bit.

Last fall I woke up to a pleasant surprise. Att had installed/upgraded the whole west Michigan area to 3g coverage. Very few people new that they were doing this and it was not advertised until after they activated the upgrade. That is service to an area that has almost 500,000 people in it. I don't know how difficult it was for them to implement but from a user perspective it appeared to be flawless.
The only down side is I moved to Georgia two weeks later and am back on edge.
Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
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Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
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post #85 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddyp View Post

Last fall I woke up to a pleasant surprise. Att had installed/upgraded the whole west Michigan area to 3g coverage. Very few people new that they were doing this and it was not advertised until after they activated the upgrade. That is service to an area that has almost 500,000 people in it. I don't know how difficult it was for them to implement but from a user perspective it appeared to be flawless.
The only down side is I moved to Georgia two weeks later and am back on edge.

Hey bigdaddyp,

No doubt it was an undertaking. I say this simply from the prospect of being part of the bid and build out. Let me tell you, "it ain't fun". Well, it is when it all works. I am pretty sure that AT&T began their upgrade/build out/roll out, etc..... well in advance of the fall. The biggest problem with 3G is that the further away you get from the core network, i.e. MSC, the more work you have to do and equipment you have to change.
post #86 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple20 View Post

I have a 4GB iPhone and will most definitely upgrade to the 3G when it comes out. But - will my 4GB iPhone continue to work as an iPod?

Not liking the idea that the 2.5G iPhone will become useless without any service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

It will still have service. It will simply ride on GSM and EDGE. I to not think (God I hope not) AT&T will simply dump EDGE. Stranger things have happened though.

No, it will not “still have service” and “simply ride on GSM and EDGE”.

I have great news for you, though, apple20. Last night I went to both the AT&T and Apple stores to discover that ending our AT&T contract (early or not) already turns our iPhone more or less into the iTouch – at no charge. It will say “No service” at the top and will not make calls, take calls, or accept new voicemails. Anything that uses EDGE will not work either. That means weather, stocks, safari, email, and maps, among other related features, just won’t work. AT&T allows you to use EDGE as part of your iPhone cellular service. If you don’t have their service you immediately lose access to EDGE.

However, here’s the funny part (because I didn’t know this) : Wi-Fi continues to work, as does all information and media content unless trying to sync it with a computer that is not authorized to play your purchased content. This means you can select your Wi-Fi network and then use it to access weather, stocks, etc.. You can also use the other features, such as pictures, music and videos. Thus, right now, at no charge, the iPhone will become an iTouch when we’re finished with our contract or upgrade. Just remember to remove purchased content before selling it or giving it away. While it will continue to play on the iPhone their computer won’t play purchased content without being authorized.

For what I’ve said about the iPhone not working without an AT&T contract, I have nothing to be ashamed of. As I have not personally terminated my AT&T contract with the iPhone, nor do I know anyone who has, I was stating my current knowledge on the subject based on statements made by David Pogue. He’s a very smart, respected, and experienced professional. Who is David Pogue?

“David Pogue is the weekly tech columnist for the New York Times. He’s an Emmy award winning CBS News reporter, tech correspondent for the NPR’s “Morning Edition”, creator of the Missing Manual book series (in which he authored or co authored 17 of them), wrote 6 “For Dummies” titles, and overall has written 43 books.”

Hoping not to upset those that own the rights to the book (by posting part of it here), David Pogue stated on page 262 of the “iPhone Missing Manual” : “Until you activate, the iPhone can’t do much of anything. It can’t make calls, play music or video, or get on the Internet. So no, you can’t buy an iPhone and hope to use it as a fancy iPod: Without an AT&T account, it just won’t work. Signing up for AT&T service is required.

For that matter, the iPhone is a locked GSM phone, meaning that it works only with an AT&T account. It won’t work with Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile, or any other carrier, and you can’t insert the SIM card from a non AT&T phone and expect it to work.”

I’m not placing blame on the innocent David Pogue. I’m merely stating that without personal experience with terminating an AT&T account with the iPhone or knowing someone that has, I wisely turned to information provided by someone who knows a lot about the iPhone because he worked directly with Apple to write a book on it. He states two times, across two paragraphs, that the iPhone won’t work without an AT&T contract.

With the new iTunes rental movies, Apple has a secure means of locking content after a certain time period, whether on your computer or iPhone. Since you need iTunes to activate and upgrade the iPhone, sync it, and rental movies are controlled and removed by iTunes according to the time period, it followed along with what David Pogue said, which implies ending your AT&T contract would have the same effect on the iPhone. Apple could (if they wanted to) deactivate an iPhone through iTunes. It's not a stupid idea because Apple has already proven they know how to do that. In fact, they've already done it. Their recent software upgrades have effectively deactivated (or ruined) those that upgraded their unlocked iPhones. However, they really don't need iTunes to deactivate iPhones.

Instead of determining if unofficial Apple software was installed on the iPhone (to warrent deactivation) all Apple would have to do is let the iPhone check its own internal logs and determine (just for instance) if it has not made or received any calls within a set span of time – such as three weeks, implying the cell service was terminated. If not used for that length of time, it “upgrades” to a non-working version. Software wise, that is rather simple to do.

Overall, as it stands today, ending your AT&T contract merely removes access to all cellular related functions, including EDGE. Yet you can use some of those cellular related functions if they work over an accessible Wi-Fi.

Again, I’m not placing blame on the innocent David Pogue. If sapporobaby wants to call me an idiot then experienced professionals with tons of creditials, such as David Pogue, are in the same boat with me. Ahem, which suits me just fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

It will still have service. It will simply ride on GSM and EDGE. I to not think (God I hope not) AT&T will simply dump EDGE. Stranger things have happened though.

No, it will not “still have service” and “simply ride on GSM and EDGE”. It will function like the iTouch. I would email David Pogue about this but chances are he already knows and plans to write an updated version to the "iPhone Missing Manual".
post #87 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kephisto View Post

No, it will not “still have service” and “simply ride on GSM and EDGE”.

I have great news for you, though, apple20. Last night I went to both the AT&T and Apple stores to discover that ending our AT&T contract (early or not) already turns our iPhone more or less into the iTouch – at no charge. It will say “No service” at the top and will not make calls, take calls, or accept new voicemails. Anything that uses EDGE will not work either. That means weather, stocks, safari, email, and maps, among other related features, just won’t work. AT&T allows you to use EDGE as part of your iPhone cellular service. If you don’t have their service you immediately lose access to EDGE.

However, here’s the funny part (because I didn’t know this) : Wi-Fi continues to work, as does all information and media content unless trying to sync it with a computer that is not authorized to play your purchased content. This means you can select your Wi-Fi network and then use it to access weather, stocks, etc.. You can also use the other features, such as pictures, music and videos. Thus, right now, at no charge, the iPhone will become an iTouch when we’re finished with our contract or upgrade. Just remember to remove purchased content before selling it or giving it away. While it will continue to play on the iPhone their computer won’t play purchased content without being authorized.

Hmmmm...... I wonder if this tidbit of good news was delivered via PM at: 19:11 on 02-07-2008, and read at 06:23 EST on 02-08-2008? How coincidental this "good news". Lucky for us someone is "so" on the ball.

Apple20: as a paid for device, your iPhone will naturally become an iPod Touch. You could have found this out like I did by simply calling: 1-800-331-0500 AT&T Customer Service. You can also activate the same iPhone simply by purchasing another plan. It seems that a few posts back you were told that your iPhone will not function at all. I wonder if this will be corrected by the person making those incorrect statements? Time will tell.

By the way Apple20, here is a simple test you can run. Turn off your phone. Turn it back on. If yours has the pin code enabled it will say "Sim Locked". Simply click the "OK" button. Now your wifi, and other services will continue to function. It is as though you have no SIM card in your phone. This is exactly what will happen when you either take your SIM out or if your service is deactivate. As you can see, your iPhone still functions. It would seem that the info you received from Kephisto is wrong, and quite easy to verify. You might want to reconsider anything he says. Use verifiable sources.
post #88 of 89
Tracking this thread now. The last post being 2 days old, nothing will be done at this point.

Any more personal attacks or posting of PMs will result in a permaban.
--Johnny
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--Johnny
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post #89 of 89
"If you build it, they will come"
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