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Apple releases Apple TV "Take 2" software update - Page 2

post #41 of 180
2/12/08 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

'

Quality indeed does matter if you are a videofile which you obviously are not. Why did you buy an ATV? You should stick with a VCR- it does exactly what your looking for if quality is not an issue for you.
ATV was made for high-end equipment. Quality is exactly what it is all about.

I'm not a videofile either. Maybe I am a videophile.
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post #42 of 180
2/12/08 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

'

Quality indeed does matter if you are a videofile which you obviously are not. Why did you buy an ATV? You should stick with a VCR- it does exactly what your looking for if quality is not an issue for you.
ATV was made for high-end equipment. Quality is exactly what it is all about.

Of course quality matters.

But that's not the point in the case of missing a TV show - watching a TV show in lower quality is better than not being able to watch it at all.

What higher quality alternative to the iTunes versions do you propose for catching a missed TV show?
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post #43 of 180
2/12/08 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

I'm not a videofile either. Maybe I am a videophile.

I'm so glad you can spell. Sorry that you can't add anything interesting to the thread.
But we all welcome your spell check skills.
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post #44 of 180
2/12/08 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Of course quality matters.

But that's not the point in the case of missing a TV show - watching a TV show in lower quality is better than not being able to watch it at all.

What higher quality alternative to the iTunes versions do you propose for catching a missed TV show?

I've already ready stated : 1.) DVR it. 2.) BUY a DVD of it.
I feel like I need to spoon feed on here sometimes.
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post #45 of 180
2/12/08 at 1:42pm
Can anybody identify the drive device beneath the aTV in the article's photos?
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post #46 of 180
2/12/08 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I've already ready stated : 1.) DVR it. 2.) BUY a DVD of it.
I feel like I need to spoon feed on here sometimes.

Maybe you should drop the attitude and actually read what is being posted.

1) By missed show we're talking about shows you missed tivoing, that's what it said in the original post. If there's a storm and the power goes out to your house during the broadcast, DVR isn't going to help you.
2) DVD comes out months after the TV season ends. If I miss tomorrow's episode of LOST, I can see it the next day via iTunes, or next October or so on DVD. With a serialized TV show, not seeing an episode until months later isn't an acceptable option.

So unless you can think of a third option, it looks like iTunes is the only option to see that missed episode in a timely manner.

Make sense now, captain spoonfed?
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post #47 of 180
2/12/08 at 1:48pm
Is there an ability to put files on the Time Capsule and stream them to the Apple TV ?
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post #48 of 180
2/12/08 at 1:50pm
My AppleID contains a space, but the on-screen keyboard for entering the AppleID doesn't offer space. The keyboard for the password does, but not the AppleID. So, no rentals for me.
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post #49 of 180
2/12/08 at 1:50pm
Maybe they're saying "it's good enough FOR me" which is a different thing
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post #50 of 180
2/12/08 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

'

Quality indeed does matter if you are a videofile which you obviously are not. Why did you buy an ATV? You should stick with a VCR- it does exactly what your looking for if quality is not an issue for you.
ATV was made for high-end equipment. Quality is exactly what it is all about.


Ah, the videofile angle. Is that term French? Sounds French - ugh.

Well an HD player is not an option for this techie. We have a georgeous, bright, high contrast direct-view RCA 1080i HD in the LR, but as an early adopter I get screwed by the Studios. They insisted that HDMI is invoked for HD or Blue-Ray players. With my component video, all I would get is 480 - ugh again. So I shall rebel and watch better HD on my ATV than I can get even with a new player. Hopefully bandwidth and content will continue to improve so I NEVER have to buy one of those players.

Dear Viedofile: things change - I bought into all the "better stuff" over the years: FM Stereo (yea, that was an add-on module to my Fisher tuner cira 1965), S-Video, Laser Disk, half-speed mastered vinyl.... ATV offers superior quaility to all those technologies. AND it gets updated with new features without a trip back to the repair shop or Best Buy.
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post #51 of 180
2/12/08 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

OMG- here we go again. I'm beginning to feel like Miss Sally in a kindergarten class.
He said"AppleTV is great for missed programming."
And I disagree. I'm saying I disagree because they quality is not a good as the original- if anything, it's worse. If it's a digital copy it should look the same as when recorded on a DVR. Also, when you buy a DVD of a TV show/series, if anything, it looks better than the originally broadcast not worse. I think the main reason is that Apple TV show downloads should be optimized for large HD TV's not iPods.

But that's the real problem, isn't it? You have to optimize for the lowest common denominator (the iPod) or else you can't take your programming with you. The magic of "watch it anywhere" is lost.

I suspect that is a whole lot more important to the average consumer than super high resolution. The last thing Apple wants to do is complicate the whole system by making different files for different devices, or force users to wait an hour as their videos are "converted" for use on the iPod.

By the way, on my 720p 32" set, Colbert looks pretty much the same as when I DVR it. I suspect that like all programming (except Blu-Ray), the bigger and higher res your TV, the worse just about everything looks. Broadcast HD TV over cable is often compressed at levels even higher than Apple does in iTunes.

It'll be a few more years before we see the true high quality that HD TV promises in every format. Until then, the true junkies can buy and rent their Blu-Ray discs, and the rest of us can be happy with what we get elsewhere.
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post #52 of 180
2/12/08 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Take 3- Let's us buy HD!!! And gives us Safari!!!!

Why do people want Safari on their TV? Web services, maybe. Put in widgets to look up info and such. But a full-blown Safari?

I think the idea on paper sounds a lot better than the actual experience would be. Especially with an Apple Remote. Even with a Bluetooth keyboard, there are still tons of sites that wouldn't work at all without a mouse. And if you're going to hook up a mouse, just get a MacMini instead and plug that into your TV.
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post #53 of 180
2/12/08 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjoec123 View Post

But that's the real problem, isn't it? You have to optimize for the lowest common denominator (the iPod) or else you can't take your programming with you. The magic of "watch it anywhere" is lost.

I suspect that is a whole lot more important to the average consumer than super high resolution. The last thing Apple wants to do is complicate the whole system by making different files for different devices, or force users to wait an hour as their videos are "converted" for use on the iPod.

.

Again I disagree. The whole purpose of ATV is for videophiles not iPods. That is why it is not selling well because those who have HD TVs just look at the image in the store and with the exception of photos- it just doesn't cut it. Hopefully these HD rentals will help change that but it's not there yet. We can buy different quality in music already on iTunes and we should be able to do so with video.
It is true the iPod video came first but now we have ATV with HDMI, built for HD TVs.
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post #54 of 180
2/12/08 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjoec123 View Post

Why do people want Safari on their TV? Web services, maybe. Put in widgets to look up info and such. But a full-blown Safari?

I think the idea on paper sounds a lot better than the actual experience would be. Especially with an Apple Remote. Even with a Bluetooth keyboard, there are still tons of sites that wouldn't work at all without a mouse. And if you're going to hook up a mouse, just get a MacMini instead and plug that into your TV.

Widgets are cool and fine too. Just give me something, anything, that's not going to co$t me more to use , please- rental$, movie$, mu$ic , etc.
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post #55 of 180
2/12/08 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cintos View Post

Ah, the videofile angle. Is that term French? Sounds French - ugh.

Well an HD player is not an option for this techie. We have a georgeous, bright, high contrast direct-view RCA 1080i HD in the LR, but as an early adopter I get screwed by the Studios. They insisted that HDMI is invoked for HD or Blue-Ray players. With my component video, all I would get is 480 - ugh again. So I shall rebel and watch better HD on my ATV than I can get even with a new player. Hopefully bandwidth and content will continue to improve so I NEVER have to buy one of those players.

Dear Viedofile: things change - I bought into all the "better stuff" over the years: FM Stereo (yea, that was an add-on module to my Fisher tuner cira 1965), S-Video, Laser Disk, half-speed mastered vinyl.... ATV offers superior quaility to all those technologies. AND it gets updated with new features without a trip back to the repair shop or Best Buy.

Dear Cintos- How exactly do you plan to buy HD content now? Wish for miracles from the videofile angel?
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post #56 of 180
2/12/08 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cintos View Post

Ah, the videofile angle. Is that term French? Sounds French - ugh.

Well an HD player is not an option for this techie. We have a georgeous, bright, high contrast direct-view RCA 1080i HD in the LR, but as an early adopter I get screwed by the Studios. They insisted that HDMI is invoked for HD or Blue-Ray players. With my component video, all I would get is 480 - ugh again. So I shall rebel and watch better HD on my ATV than I can get even with a new player. Hopefully bandwidth and content will continue to improve so I NEVER have to buy one of those players.

Dear Viedofile: things change - I bought into all the "better stuff" over the years: FM Stereo (yea, that was an add-on module to my Fisher tuner cira 1965), S-Video, Laser Disk, half-speed mastered vinyl.... ATV offers superior quaility to all those technologies. AND it gets updated with new features without a trip back to the repair shop or Best Buy.

Actually, since no movie on an HD disc thus far has used the Image Constraint Token to limit the component output to 480, you could still get 1080 from a Blu-Ray player via component video (worked just fine the couple of times my PS3 was hooked up to my brother's 1080p LCD TV via component).

Sorry, that technology still hasn't managed to stay put for you. I don't relish having to pay every time I want to watch an HD movie, but if that appeals to you, more power to you.
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post #57 of 180
2/12/08 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Maybe you should drop the attitude and actually read what is being posted.

1) By missed show we're talking about shows you missed tivoing, that's what it said in the original post. If there's a storm and the power goes out to your house during the broadcast, DVR isn't going to help you.
2) DVD comes out months after the TV season ends. If I miss tomorrow's episode of LOST, I can see it the next day via iTunes, or next October or so on DVD. With a serialized TV show, not seeing an episode until months later isn't an acceptable option.

So unless you can think of a third option, it looks like iTunes is the only option to see that missed episode in a timely manner.

Make sense now, captain spoonfed?

Please re-read again
Quality does matter for me. I wouldn't settle on your waste of my money.
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post #58 of 180
2/12/08 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Please re-read again
Quality does matter for me. I wouldn't settle on your waste of my money.

Thanks for clarifying - so you agree iTunes is the only option for watching a missed episode in a timely manner. I think you're in a tiny minority being OK with missing a show, hardly anyone would be happy missing an episode of a show they love or seeing it months after the season ends, as opposed to seeing it in time for the following episode.

I'm guessing you probably don't watch much TV, or at least not much that is plot driven.
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post #59 of 180
2/12/08 at 2:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewjnyc View Post

Could someone who has the update check and see if, under the "music" menu, the Apple TV supports streaming Internet radio at long last? Much obliged!

Drop a radio stream into a play list, sync the playlist and then it you stream on the AppleTV.

Airtunes is also supported!

The ability to stream a podcast is awesome. You can watch news from around the world now by streaming a podcast. Great for language learning.
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post #60 of 180
2/12/08 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

Because most DVDs have DTS 5.1, which has several times the bandwidth of Dolby 5.1.

True

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

And it's all about bandwidth

Not true.

It is all about a combination of bandwidth and codec efficiency. AC3 is a superior codec to DTS, and can deliver equal sound quality at lower bitrates (much like AAC and WMA at a given bitrate deliver equal quality to mp3 at a higher bitrate).

But, this has prompted a good question: what is the bitrate of the AC3 track in the rented files?
it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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post #61 of 180
2/12/08 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cintos View Post

Hopefully bandwidth and content will continue to improve so I NEVER have to buy one of those players.

So you never intend to BUY an HD movie? Remember, HD content is only a rental. It will be a VERY long time before they are streaming the same 25GB of quality from a Blu-ray disc through iTunes. They're only at 2GB(?) now. But at least at 2GB you could (theoretically) store them on a hard drive. At 25GB quality, you could only keep 10 on a 250GB disc. How many movies do you currently own? How many hard drives would you have to stack up to amass a collection? Optical discs are still way better quality, more features, watch them as many times as you want, they're easy to store, and they don't crash and lose 10 movies at a time.
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post #62 of 180
2/12/08 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilinboston View Post

Drop a radio stream into a play list, sync the playlist and then it you stream on the AppleTV.

Airtunes is also supported!

The ability to stream a podcast is awesome. You can watch news from around the world now by streaming a podcast. Great for language learning.

OMG-That's fantastic The best news I've heard all day!! Can't wait to get home and not have to buy or rent anything- YAY!!!
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post #63 of 180
2/12/08 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Thanks for clarifying - so you agree iTunes is the only option for watching a missed episode in a timely manner. I think you're in a tiny minority being OK with missing a show, hardly anyone would be happy missing an episode of a show they love or seeing it months after the season ends, as opposed to seeing it in time for the following episode.

I'm guessing you probably don't watch much TV, or at least not much that is plot driven.

And thank you for clarifying as well!. You're I right I don't watch shows or series with continuing plots. I watch lots of film and non -continuing shows like Colbert, SNL, or PBS stuff, concerts, etc. I can see how this would definitely benefit you. I've tried to buy a couple of the other shows but was dissapointed in the quality. Like I said hopefully this will improve and help us all out.
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post #64 of 180
2/12/08 at 2:45pm
Downloaded my update and watched some video, particularly the HD podcasts, and they are simply great! And I have only 480i. Makes me want a widescreen HD set. Haven't rented any movies for showing on Apple TV yet. However, I noticed that the menu for Apple TV on ITunes has changed to include rented movies on Apple TV. Of course I can stream direct without going through ITunes if I choose. Sound is excellent through my separate receiver using an optical cable. By the way, streaming is solid through my Airport Extreme Base Station (n). I am very pleased, so far.
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post #65 of 180
2/12/08 at 2:47pm
Not a real good selection of movies yet. I counted only around 350?

Didn't Apple say around a 1000 at the start or was that at the end of February.

A good movie selection is important and increases the impulse rent.

And a good selection of old stuff too is good.

The Podcast stuff is excellent and its nice to be able to browse the iTMS from your TV.

A very good update. I think Apple TV is worth it now at $229.
Just get going on the movie selection Apple.
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post #66 of 180
2/12/08 at 2:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cintos View Post

Well an HD player is not an option for this techie. We have a georgeous, bright, high contrast direct-view RCA 1080i HD in the LR, but as an early adopter I get screwed by the Studios. They insisted that HDMI is invoked for HD or Blue-Ray players. With my component video, all I would get is 480 - ugh again. So I shall rebel and watch better HD on my ATV than I can get even with a new player. Hopefully bandwidth and content will continue to improve so I NEVER have to buy one of those players.

Are you sure that AppleTV doesn't require HDMI for HD rentals? I can't find any such information. But the Blu-Ray requirement for ICT that cuts down to 480p won't take effect for a few years. By then, maybe your TV will be dead anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelcruncher View Post

So you never intend to BUY an HD movie? Remember, HD content is only a rental.

Don't you think that will change in 6-12 months?

Quote:
It will be a VERY long time before they are streaming the same 25GB of quality from a Blu-ray disc through iTunes. They're only at 2GB(?) now. But at least at 2GB you could (theoretically) store them on a hard drive.

I don't see why a hypothetical Apple HD purchase would have to be the same size as a Blu-Ray when the Apple HD rentals are probably much smaller than that. I don't think it has to be the same quality and bitrate.
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post #67 of 180
2/12/08 at 2:49pm
I have a Samsung DLP TV with only 1 HDMI port. I was going to buy a switcher to add an Apple TV unit, but I've read in multiple posts that there is a bug in the original Apple TV sw that keeps it from working on an HDMI switch. (Before you respond that it must the the Samsung, be assured that a lot of folks have tested this and attributed it to Apple, not the switch manufacturers.) I'd really like any info from someone who is using an HDMI switch with the new sw to see if this issue has been addressed.

Thanks!
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post #68 of 180
2/12/08 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BocaBoy View Post

I have a Samsung DLP TV with only 1 HDMI port. I was going to buy a switcher to add an Apple TV unit, but I've read in multiple posts that there is a bug in the original Apple TV sw that keeps it from working on an HDMI switch. (Before you respond that it must the the Samsung, be assured that a lot of folks have tested this and attributed it to Apple, not the switch manufacturers.) I'd really like any info from someone who is using an HDMI switch with the new sw to see if this issue has been addressed.

Thanks!

I've had my AppleTV hooked up to an HDMI switch since the day it was released and it works fine. Worked perfectly with the old and new software. I haven't heard of anyone having problems with an HDMI switch and an AppleTV... I use the Monoprice 3x1 Powered HDMI switch.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...t=1#largeimage
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post #69 of 180
2/12/08 at 3:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jds17j View Post

I've had my AppleTV hooked up to an HDMI switch since the day it was released and it works fine. Worked perfectly with the old and new software. I haven't heard of anyone having problems with an HDMI switch and an AppleTV... I use the Monoprice 3x1 Powered HDMI switch.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...t=1#largeimage

As I understand it, the problem is limited to Samsung TVs and is prevelant across all HDMI switches, even the one sold by Apple. Are you saying you have a Samsung and this switch has worked for you?
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post #70 of 180
2/12/08 at 3:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

Didn't Apple say around a 1000 at the start or was that at the end of February.

End of february.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I don't see why a hypothetical Apple HD purchase would have to be the same size as a Blu-Ray when the Apple HD rentals are probably much smaller than that. I don't think it has to be the same quality and bitrate.

Especially when many bluray discs are mpeg instead of h.264, and supposedly quite a few discs are at a bit rate that is overkill - it sounds like they're filling up the disks just because they can.
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post #71 of 180
2/12/08 at 3:24pm
Thanks in advance for your response.
In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
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In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
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post #72 of 180
2/12/08 at 3:28pm
Let me add, using 3.0 Mbps dsl speed.
In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
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In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
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post #73 of 180
2/12/08 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Again I disagree. The whole purpose of ATV is for videophiles not iPods. That is why it is not selling well because those who have HD TVs just look at the image in the store and with the exception of photos- it just doesn't cut it. Hopefully these HD rentals will help change that but it's not there yet. We can buy different quality in music already on iTunes and we should be able to do so with video.
It is true the iPod video came first but now we have ATV with HDMI, built for HD TVs.

Um. The Apple TV is for consumers, not a small little group of "videophiles". Blu-Ray is for "videophiles." That's why it's selling so poorly.

The vast majority of people don't have a problem with standard def DVDs and compressed cable TV. Like it or not, that's a fact. Sales figures prove this. Suggesting that the Apple TV is some sort of high-end device designed just for you and your ilk is pretty silly.

Apple wants to replace the DVD, not the Blu-Ray disc, with the Apple TV. Hi-Def isn't mature enough or a big enough market to be concerned about at the moment. Not if you want to make profits in the near term.

You refer to the "image in the store", and I would agree with you there that the Apple TVs on display in the store were one of the few design mistakes Apple Retail has ever made. They used 1080 screens and set them up so you'd be three inches away from them. Of course that looked like crap. They should have hung the screens from the wall at a distance that would be comparable to most people's living rooms, where quality is far closer to being realistic. They also should have used 720p screens, which are more common in US households. The retail stores actually hurt Apple TV sales more than it helped them, which is a rare thing. I hope they're re-examining their approach for the new version.
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post #74 of 180
2/12/08 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjoec123 View Post

Apple wants to replace the DVD, not the Blu-Ray disc, with the Apple TV. Hi-Def isn't mature enough or a big enough market to be concerned about at the moment. Not if you want to make profits in the near term.

That statement doesn't make sense in light of the fact that AppleTV doesn't support most of the installed base of SDTVs. They were basically ignoring a huge pool of potential customers. It's as if they were selecting for contradictory installed bases, people that have HDTVs but don't really care about it.
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post #75 of 180
2/12/08 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That statement doesn't make sense in light of the fact that AppleTV doesn't support most of the installed base of SDTVs. They were basically ignoring a huge pool of potential customers.

It's hard to figure out what apple is thinking with the aTV. They don't support sdtv at all, but they shipped it with limitations that would turn off many HD fans. Some of those have been improved, some not. aTV definitely seems more designed for convenience than for top quality.
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post #76 of 180
2/12/08 at 3:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe in miami View Post

Let me add, using 3.0 Mbps dsl speed.

Took me about 35 minutes to download Ratatouille on my MacBook Pro and Apple Airport Extreme(n) wirelessly. I have 5.0 Mbps but don't think it was downloading at top speed.

Of course if you stream on Apple TV, it should start up quicker, before it completely downloads, if you want to start watching it right away.
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post #77 of 180
2/12/08 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

My AppleID contains a space, but the on-screen keyboard for entering the AppleID doesn't offer space. The keyboard for the password does, but not the AppleID. So, no rentals for me.

I thought Apple ID's were email addresses? How does yours have a space?

DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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post #78 of 180
2/12/08 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

It's hard to figure out what apple is thinking with the aTV. They don't support sdtv at all, but they shipped it with limitations that would turn off many HD fans. Some of those have been improved, some not. aTV definitely seems more designed for convenience than for top quality.

Apple TV does support SDTV if you have inputs for the component cable. I have 480i full screen and it works great.
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post #79 of 180
2/12/08 at 4:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwt1935 View Post

Apple TV does support SDTV if you have inputs for the component cable. I have 480i full screen and it works great.

True, but isn't that widescreen 480? Not to mention that it sounds like the text would barely be readable on sdtv.
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post #80 of 180
2/12/08 at 4:13pm
I've just completed my fourth phone calland subsequent replacementto Apple Support regarding my inoperable AppleTV. All three AppleTV had the same issue, the front of the device changes from a white to amber light to indicate that it's registering an infrared response for the remote but nothing changes on the display.

I've tried multiple Apple remotes with the original AppleTV and the 2 replacements I've received thus far. Same issues. Same results.

The first two AppleTVs worked for a couple days before no longer repsonding. This current one lasted for about 2 hours. I was able to update the third one to Take 2, watch a lot of YourTube videos and even rent a HD movie before it happened. I never did watch the HD movie.

Apple Support has had me go through all the remote control reset features and attmepted to pair the remote, but nothing worked. Hard booting the device doesn't work either. It seems to boot up fine but it you are unable to make onscreen selctions. Eventually, the screensaver will startup.

I've only synced the first two AppleTVs. The first two we also connected to my Linksys WRT-54G router while the third one to a D-Link DIR-655 router. I was able to setup the wireless netowrking with all of them, of course. They were all connected via HDMI to a 37" LG LCD HDTV.

Apple is sending me a fourth AppleTV. I have never had this many issues with a product, much less an Apple product, before.

Has anything similar occurred with anyone else?
Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this?
What is my recourse if this happens again?

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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