MacBook Pros running dry in the channel ahead of refreshes - Page 3

The other thing about Amazon is that they'll have a pretty deep stock of the current models. The are still selling the MacBook Pro version with 2.33 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo and Tiger (here). Even if new MBPs show up at Apple stores on Tuesday, it doesn't necessarily mean Amazon will have them right away. And they certainly won't stop selling the older versions.

Actually, you apparently haven't paid attention to Apple much. The last 2 refreshes for MBP's came without warning - no fanfare. Just showed up on a Tuesday morning available that day. (I know because I ordered the very minute the first refresh was available) Mac Pros and MacBooks have had the same thing happen.

I have a replacement MBP that I ordered earlier this week. It was set to ship Feb. 13-15. I sent an email to my Apple rep and asked about new MBP's and mentioned that I would prefer a new one rather than an old one. Later that evening my ship date changed to Feb. 20-22. I don't know if the email influenced the change or not, but I'm thinking that we'll see new MBP's on the 19th.

Probably not, might just be because of weekend and they don't deliver on President's Day

I think both are valid possibilities.

However, on one hand I can't imagine an email to an Apple rep could create an immediate and direct change in a shipment so easily, and on the other I can't imagine that Apple wouldn't have calculated for Presidents' Day and have to push back packages a 7 days because of one day off from deliveries.

A third possibility is that they are selling more units than expected.

A fourth possibility is that the they jumped at the chance when someone volunteered to go to the back of the line.

well, this is the second replacement mbp, and apple is bending over backwards to make me happy because of all the time and money i've lost due to faulty machines. so maybe they're just catering to me.

... and even if they would delay it for a holiday, there's no reason to push it back a whole week. they don't do american holidays in china, so my guess is that they'd package it and have it ready to go for fedex when the shipment can go out.

Since Monday is president's day, if the MBP updates happens to come this week I wouldn't be surprised if it's Wednesday.

my G4 powerbook just took its last fall a few days ago, in the middle of a huge musical project I'm working on with collaborators. I was at the Apple Store today, it took great inner strength not to buy! I had to pry myself away. My entire life is in limbo until the new ones arrive.... I need a drink... When I asked the dude if he knew whether or not the update was coming soon, his mouth said no, but his facial expression seemed to transmit a different message, like, perhaps you should wait my friend, they will be here very soon... I need a new one really like now already.

Hello all, I would have to say my guess is the new pros will be released two weeks after the SDK's release on the 26th, probably the 11th or at the latest 18th. I don't have any inside tips but that seems like the most reasonable date. I'm thinking these current supply shortages are due to the fact that Intel messed up the new penyrns and apple didn't have enough stock to cover pushing back the release date. They probably manufactured some additional current models that suppliers will get on the 20th to maintain their bottom line until the new revision is out. Anyway, if I'm wrong and they're out the 19th, I won't be disappointed. Also I expect the base model to contain a 2.5 GHz CPU and upgradeable to a 2.6 GHz, 2.8 GHz in a laptop is frankly unrealistic, way too much power draw. Even if 2.8 was an option I wouldn't take it, I'd rather have the battery life than an unnoticeable increase in performance.

YOU'RE WRONG BUDDY

When, then? When will they come?

At this point you could tell me that Apple became the first technology company to independently launch a successful mission to the moon and that the vessel was maned by apes and my response would be, "Uh huh, okay, great. I DON"T GIVE A DAMN BECAUSE THEY STILL HAVEN'T UPDATED THE MACBOOK PRO!"

Welcome to AI, wk127001.
In order to avoid comments like thebeat's (above) you may want to express your ratiocination for this "most reasonable date." While it won't work in every instance if we understand you reasoning it may ward off some enmity that will undoubtedly follow a statement that has no supporting evidence or logical train of thought added.

Ten days ago Dell starting shipping Penryn based notebooks. The delay is only a few days as with all their build-to-order notebooks, which means they have them in stock. Unless there is a huge supply issue I don't think Apple will wait until March to update the MBPs. I think Tuesday is the most likely date for this based on other evidence in this thread.

One thing that seems to oft go unnoticed is that while Apple has a small slice of all notebooks sold compared to HP and Dell, they seem to trump them when it comes to higher-end notebooks running current, modern processors. This is the only logic I can think of that would add any validity to your statement and why Apple is always a month or so behind other OEMs when it comes to releasing these new processors. They simply sell a lot more machines with the new hotness inside.

Intel's price lists for the new chip and its predeessor are:

•

$241 — T7500 "Santa Rosa" (2.20 GHz, 4 MB L2 Cache, 800MHz FSB, 65nm)
• $241 — T8300 "Penryn" (2.40 GHz, 3 MB L2 Cache, 800MHz FSB, 45nm)
• $316 — T7700 "Santa Rosa" (2.40 GHz, 4 MB L2 Cache, 800MHz FSB, 65nm)
• $316 — T9300 "Penryn" (2.50 GHz, 6 MB L2 Cache, 800MHz FSB, 45nm)
• $530 — T7800 "Santa Rosa" (2.60 GHz, 4 MB L2 Cache, 800MHz FSB, 65nm)
• $530 — T9500 "Penryn" (2.60 GHz, 6 MB L2 Cache, 800MHz FSB, 45nm)
• $851 — X7900 "Santa Rosa" (2.80 GHz, 4 MB L2 Cache, 800MHz FSB, 65nm)
• $851 — X9000 "Penryn" (2.80 GHz, 6 MB L2 Cache, 800MHz FSB, 45nm) There are some differences this time around in L2 Cache: 2.20GH w/ 4MB L2 Cache vs. 2.40GHz w/ 3MB L2 Cache. Does the application being used make a difference here despite the 200MHz speed increase? How does this affect battery usage? (I can't answer these questions)

Assuming they keep the pricepoints the same, the most likely scenario is:

• $1999 — 15" @ 2.40GHz
• $2499 — 15" @ 2.50GHz +$250 for 2.60GHz option
• $2799 — 17" @ 2.50GHz +$250 for 2.60GHz option

(There will also be other HW improvements)

edit:
Dell starts off with the "Santa Rosa?" T7250 (2M L2 cache 2.00 GHz 800 MHz FSB 65nm) which is $209 from intel and then charges:

• $75 — T8300 (only $32 more from Intel)
• $200 — T9300 (only $107 more from Intel)
• $475 — T9500 (only $321 more from Intel)

Honestly, this means very little as Dell will undoubtedly sell less of the higher priced models but it's interesting to see the premium being charged for faster machines.

So you disagree with the majority of articles that have already stated that the entry level will be using the T9300 chip (2.5 GHz) and the "upgrade" - 15" and the 17" models will have the T9500 (2.6 GHz) chips???

It is just my best guess. Apple did start the default Penryn-based Mac Pro with a more expensive chip-over-chip processor, which increased the price by $300. If Apple did do this it would increase MBP price by $75—$100, if they didn't other, more expensive HW and add a "luxury" tax.

Historically, Apple has add 3 processor options. If they continue with that and offer the T9300 as the cheapest option then the 3rd CPU choice will be the X9000 for a substantial $321 more from Intel than the T9500. It only gains a 200MHz speed increase, while the FSB and L2 Cache remain the same. My issue with the X9000 is that, I believe, it will be to much of a power draw on the battery and possibly create too much heat for the space provided. In other words, I am not sure it's technically possible to use this "Extreme" processor with the current case design.

I just sold my MBP 1.83Ghz yesterday. Here's hoping for the refreshes or (prays) new enclosures on Tuesday... I really want a Blaluminum MacBook Pro.

¿Que? Black anodized aluminium?

Yes, that's been my nickname for it.

Thanks for the link.

I still find it amazing people still find the time to create concepts of Apple products. I mean, do you see anyone doing it for Dell or HP?

As to product refreshes, I expect the entire line of notebooks and desktops getting the Penryn upgrade at some point. Indeed, the most obvious one is the iMac and I wouldn't be surprised if this is announced along with the rumored MBP update.

YipYipYipee

Solipsism,
Well I thought I had a decent train of thought going there. If it was lacking in rational, then I apologize and will do better in the future to elaborate my thoughts.

I'm also going to perhaps clarify some of your questions on the cache and core speed of the processors. To give you a little background, I'm a student studying computer engineering and computer science and have taken some courses studying cpu design and memory hierarchy. I want to make it clear however, I am no expert and very well could be wrong but, this is my understanding of how the size of the cache affects performance.

A larger L2 cache will reduce the entire system's average memory access time. Which generally results in increased performance. However it does not affect performance in any way if the application you are running fits entirely within the L1 cache. The chances of the application fitting entirely in L1 cache isn't great but, if it does then you will not have any physical memory faults, meaning no L2 cache accesses.

A larger L2 cache benefits the system like so:
1. CPU wants data from X memory address
2. X memory address not in registers, check L1 cache.
3. Not found in L1 cache, memory fault to L2 cache.
4. Memory not found in L2 cache either, faults to RAM... and then to your hard disk.

Basically if you have a larger L2 cache, you have a greater chance that you won't have a memory fault to RAM. Each fault generally increases the time you have to search for memory by at least 1 if not more orders of magnitude.

Here's another outline:

Registers on core: Fastest memory, very expensive.
L1 cache: Also very fast but slightly slower than registers.
L2 cache: Again fast, but slower than L1 cache, but also less expensive.
RAM: Medium speed, about 100 times slower than the cache, also less expensive.
Hard Disk: Slowest than anything else, by a lot. Large, cheap memory.

By averaging you these systems and taking into account how successful your OS is at caching the memory you actually get a fairly decent memory access time.

One more thing, my recommendation for a cpu purchase, buy the 2.5GHz model with a 6MB cache, here's why:

1. Larger cache means better performance almost always.
2. That .1GHz you don't have saves you 9 Watts = longer battery life
3. Take that 200-300+ dollars you save and go to Newegg and buy 4GB of RAM instead of spending the 700 dollars Apple charges and install it yourself. If you multi task you will notice the difference of 4GB of RAM far more than a lousy .1 GHz speed boost.

Also to address the heat issue, I would have to agree with you 2.8GHz would put out quite a bit of heat, which could make the laptop uncomfortable. Though if I had to guess the processors themselves are not any hotter than those that are used in any other notebooks, Dell, HP what have you. The aluminum of case instead conducts the heat much more effectively than a plastic one, making the laptop feel hotter than it actually is, and furthermore Apple engineering might have even counted on that fact to better cool the CPU. Actually, I would be willing to money on that. Peace.

Vey quick question: wk127001
Are you sure that 0.1 GHz will save you 9watts,
And what time frame are we talking about.

Another thing.
I know that windows vista under clocks your CPU when you are not using all the cycles. Even if (for my laptop it runs at either 1.6 GHz or in power saver mode 800 MHz per core) the clock rates are predetermined between the 2 clock rates. The temperature does change 30C (86 degrees Fahrenheit) and increasing my battery life from 1hr to 1hr and 30mins (I know, I know it’s horrible but I’m upgrading soon)
So I do think that apple would have the power issue sorted so that 0.1 GHz might mean 10seconds faster rendering. (I Don’t know.)

~Regards
Name101

Name101,

Compared to the 2.6GHz model, yes it would save you 9 watts, I got it straight off wikipedia. But like you pointed out, which I forgot about and is a very good point, most operating systems, Linux, Windows and OS X, utilize Intel SpeedStepping. That is, they vary the CPU core speed depending directly on the workload. So if you're just browsing the web till your battery runs out, I would doubt the processor ever really gets above 1GHz. Therefore making your choice of 2.5 or 2.6 largely irrelevant. But if you're pushing the processor to the max till the battery dies then yes, you would see slight increase in battery life. Honestly how much I can't say, maybe 10-15 minutes? But, you'd also possibly be getting a little less work done than if you had the 2.6GHz. I believe rendering is CPU bound, therefore yes you probably would see a slight increase in performance if you had a 2.6GHz model, I don't know if it would be 10 seconds, or more, or even less.

I think the deciding factor for me would be, am I usually using my laptop plugged in? (Which in my case is not) If so, and money was no object (again not my case), then get the 2.6GHz if you really need that extra speed.

Another good point to make, and I'm not trying to insult anyone here so please don't take it that way, is that the average consumer sees a higher core speed and immediately assumes that it is a better performing machine but this is not really true. Ever since the introduction of Hyper Treading and multi-cored chips the speed wars have been largely irrelevant. There are many other factors that affect performance including FSB speed, hard drive RPMs, cache size... the list goes on. In the end only if your application is truly bottlenecked by the CPU, will an increase in core speed make a real tangible difference.

but also getting the 2.6GHz will allow some gaming headroom. but then again it will come down to price. depending on how much this 0.1GHz will cost. if it is only $200.. i personally dont think it would be worth the money.. but then agaim i do not know.. will apple even have a 2.5GHz as an option or a 2.6GHz as std?

I'm gunning for 2.4ghz and 2.6ghz models, with 2.8ghz option.

I gave up PC gaming long time ago. I decided that when my son is old enough I will buy us a PS3, Wii, or Xbox depending on which will survive in the next few years

So when they reveal if they are being released tomorrow? Midnight EST?

They normally take the store down around 8am EST, but I don't think the MBP are coming tomorrow. I think maybe that the rumored event next week!

I'm thinking the next laptops will support add-in or built-in cellular modem cards similar to Apple's early Airport cards, either in AT&T and Verizon flavors, or unlocked. I guess Apple could even support both GSM and CDMA in the same card, like the Blackberry 8330 does.

The thought came to me when I read that, as soon as Tuesday, Verizon might announce relaxed broadband access rules, this on the heels of similar adjustments by AT&T. Coincidence...?

I say it won't be happening because the most useful application for a notebook is the MBA and it has diddly-squat for internal cellular cards.

If the US, Apple's main focus, was all GSM or CDMA I think they would have been one of the forerunners of cellular integration.

I'm with solipsism on this one. The MBPs do not need a refresh to support cellular modems ... you can stick one in the PCMCIA slot today. Apple evidently doesn't see enough demand there to offer their own, so why would they build it in?

As for the MBA, you can bet that there's not a cubic mm of space un-spoken-for in that. Maybe the second or third generation will manage to shrink things some more so that there's room for more wireless capability than it has now; but that's going to be a ways off.

2-4 WEEKS AFTER THE SDK EVENT? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? THAT IS WAYY TOO LONG DUDE.

I agree the 2.5GHz model will be the best compromise in terms of power and battery performance, in addition to value-for-money.

While caching may make things more efficient, I believe the new SSE4 extensions will be of most benefit for graphics and video producers. Indeed, I read in an article that SSE4 enabled applications can boost performance into the double-digit territory.

YipYipYipee

You meant to say, "You can stick one in the ExpressCard/34 slot today."

MacBook Air should be renamed MacBook Dongle since everything that could be utilized through an Express34 cardslot, can't.

So don't buy an Air.

WTF does that have to do with the (hopefully) impending MBP refresh/speedbump?

AppleStore is DOWN... Here comes the refresh...

Nope. MBP is unchanged.

So sad.

I think we're going to be waiting a good while before a refresh. I'd be surprised if it was within this month.

Sorry, guys, but you're not listening.

The special event is next week, not today.

7 days to go.

There is no confirmation for the event so far. One week in advance we should have one. It is a media even after all, not a super-secret event!