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Report: 400,000 unlocked iPhones loose on Chinese network - Page 2

post #41 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by XamaX View Post

It's really negative that Apple is going more and more protective, it MUST trust itself and its products and the market to sort itself up to deserving success. Apple can still get some control over the software etc., where they are good, and let the market show them how amazingly well it appreciates Apple's products.

The time has come for products like Apple's to reach mass audience. And Steve has placed Apple at the right spot in the [almost] right moment.

This article is very illuminating and so was the one with the list of countries where the iPhone is unlocked. It is just amazing how a product can be so unbelievably successful and equally amazing how its creators can be so unwilling to let go and profit from it. Loosen up, Apple!

---

People, for the last time, the iPhone is not expensive, it is in fact cheap at these prices! Wake up and smell the coffee! The cheapest WM6 based model HTC is just about going to launch, a very basic GPRS-GPS model, will be going for more than 440 and I'm pretty sure it's going to be a huge hit, I tell you. Compare the iPhone to Nokia or HTC prices and open your eyes, my friends. The iPhone could very easily be sold for 650 and it would still be a hit in Europe, should it be operator-free and 3G. It's Euros, not USD. Only cheap bastards can complain of the iPhone being expensive and its price being success limiting. Maybe it's a matter of US market perception and maybe Steve was fearful and tried to secure the product through AT&T like suggested. If it wasn't for that 'security' and fear factor, the iPhone would now be an overwhelming success, at least quadruple of what it is right now, and really have taken over the world.

All this to get to the biggest problem - if it has one - with Apple in this opening up to the cellular market: it's that it's a US operation! It launched the product biased on US [mis]conceptions and perceptions and, if it weren't for the product's brilliance, it would be failing miserably because of that.

Just register this in your minds: the de facto world center for cellular phones and mobile products is Europe, not the US, the same way the Mobile World Conference was held in Barcelona, Europe and not in the US or anywhere else! Having changed from Apple Computer to Apple Inc., i.e. from computer centric to mobility/home/consumer centric [see the MBA?], should have in itself justified Steve to have bought Apple an operations building in London and center his working life on his jet plane, flying back and forth between US & EU. That would have been smart[er].

As an European who's ever been in love with the US and its technology, I have never ever quite figured out why American companies, save for a few exceptions, seem to generally be so lousy in marketing products 'overseas' when they can do so much better if they build and think their business globally and not as US-centric. The simple word 'overseas' says it all. It's a gross management error and, should Steve Jobs not see to it quickly, it may really mark Apple's future.

The world has gone de facto global, moreso when you have set your business, like Apple is doing, in order to make every established giant in the world your adversary. Think about it.

This is yet another reason why Apple should consider buying Sony [and, why not, HTC], per a Bloomberg analyst suggestion. It's within their reach, it's a wonderful synergy and it would be an instant channel opener
- Japan's huge market where people are used to spend big sums in handheld gear and
- all of Europe where it is really well implanted with factories, stores, etc. etc. etc.
HTC would simply be a case of buying out competition and genius, it's a small company and yet it's done a huge success. They are in fact the manufacturer's for Sony' Xperia1 who is a real potentially iPhone killer.

Thank you for your attention.


Great post dude. Absolutely on the mark.
post #42 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by one9deuce View Post

No teckstud, the French are waiting for iPhone version 2 with 3G. Just like millions of other potential buyers.

Oh, and I would like a link to these "amazing cellphones in Europe that we've never even seen". They must be quite something if Europe is "yawning" over the iPhone.

www.nokia.co.uk

Start with the E90, N81, N82, N95

Just these alone should keep you busy.

And do a feature to feature check against the iPhone.
post #43 of 110
Quote:
(1) American military is a big user of spectrum space.
(2) Americans use different frequencies because Americans started using those spectrum FIRST.

Your points are also true. But don't explain why AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, and Sprint all use different technology and different frequencies. They could all use the same technology and same frequency.
post #44 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeonit View Post

Apple not only has an exclusive contract in the US, but also in Germany, Great Britain and Italy. In France Orange sells an open iphone for 999 as opposed to the locked down iphone for 399...

In Germany for a short time it was 999, but in France the go for 699 unlocked.
post #45 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Your points are also true. But don't explain why AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, and Sprint all use different technology and different frequencies. They could all use the same technology and same frequency.

Europe went with GSM because they did not want to cave to Qualcom and pay, so GSM was born.
post #46 of 110
Quote:
And do a feature to feature check against the iPhone.

A feature list isn't very informative. The implantation and real world usefulness of those features would be more valuable.

The fact that few people use very much 3G data speaks volumes about real world usefulness of data software and services offered on most mobile phones.
post #47 of 110
Quote:
Europe went with GSM because they did not want to cave to Qualcom and pay, so GSM was born.

Europe wanted one standard mobile technology from the beginning. This still does nothing to explain why in the US AT&T/T-Mobile use GSM while Verizon/Sprint use CDMA. All four are incompatible in one way or another.

edit: From what I've read Europe started working on GSM in 1982. Qualcomm was founded in 1985.
post #48 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

A feature list isn't very informative. The implantation and real world usefulness of those features would be more valuable.

The fact that few people use very much 3G data speaks volumes about real world usefulness of data software and services offered on most mobile phones.

How do you define usage? As in browsing the web, checking email, video calls or just simply having it on the phone. I have co-workers (many from the US) that use their phones to get email or to check train schedules daily. Ask them if they were using HSDPA, GPRS, EDGE, UMTS, 3G, etc.... they would have no idea. They are simply users and couldn't care less about the "what am I using to connect" aspect. For me, I know what I am using. I use the functionality of my devices and I disagree. A feature list generally helps to decide on what device to purchase. You statement implies that people just walk in a phone store and say: "Give me a phone, any phone. Features don't matter".
post #49 of 110
Quote:
How do you define usage? As in browsing the web, checking email, video calls or just simply having it on the phone.

I would consider data usage any service or software that uses the data and not voice radio and rates. Right now reports show that real world usage of data is fairly low on most all phones.

Quote:
A feature list generally helps to decide on what device to purchase. You statement implies that people just walk in a phone store and say: "Give me a phone, any phone. Features don't matter".

Yeah I think a lot of people buy simple basic phones and don't care about features. I think most other people buy phones because of its looks and cool factor. I think of the total mobile market few people actual do research into features.

There have been studies that prove a long feature list isn't necessarily good. Ease of use becomes compromised as the list grows longer. If the features are difficult, frustrating, or cumbersome to use few people will use them. If few people use the feature what is the value of having it on the phone.
post #50 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Your points are also true. But don't explain why AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, and Sprint all use different technology and different frequencies. They could all use the same technology and same frequency.

1. To differentiate themselves with different services and features.

2. To keep customers from taking their phones and going to another provider.

3. To kill the chance of an unlocked phone market from developing.

4. To force customer to use their crappy, crippled versions of good phones. (Often the features touted on the European and Japanese phones are disabled or crippled on the American phones.)

5. To force customers to use their own on-line services and stores.
What goes online stays online. What is online will become public.
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What goes online stays online. What is online will become public.
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post #51 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Your points are also true. But don't explain why AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, and Sprint all use different technology and different frequencies. They could all use the same technology and same frequency.

Verizon Wireless is the most profitable wireless carrier in the US. So all the other carriers are wrong with their technology choices.

Secondly, Apple has created the world's most crippled cell phone for the supposedly "open" GSM world.
post #52 of 110
I can understand why Apple restrained the iPhone to AT&T in the US. But why do the same thing world wide?! They should have provided unlocked iPhones world wide for higher price. Unless they come up with something really good by Jun 08 they might be facing problems selling 10 mil by Macworld 09.

Don't get me wrong, I signed up for 2 years contract with AT&T for my iPhone. However, I am irritated that Apple and AT&T did not clarify what will happen after the 2 years contract expire! Are they going to unlock my iPhone for me? Or maybe they are counting on me buying whatever new model they will release by then and sign up for another 2 years contract?! Upgrade/Exchange program after 2 years?!
post #53 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

Apple should forget about having contract with China Mobile.

Just sell unlocked iPhone for $900 (that's how much it is selling there anyway) with native Chinese apps. It will make a killing from that.

Actually I was just quoted CNY 4200 yesterday. That's about USD 590 at current exchange rates.
post #54 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I can understand why Apple restrained the iPhone to AT&T in the US. But why do the same thing world wide?! They should have provided unlocked iPhones world wide for higher price. Unless they come up with something really good by Jun 08 they might be facing problems selling 10 mil by Macworld 09.

Don't get me wrong, I signed up for 2 years contract with AT&T for my iPhone. However, I am irritated that Apple and AT&T did not clarify what will happen after the 2 years contract expire! Are they going to unlock my iPhone for me? Or maybe they are counting on me buying whatever new model they will release by then and sign up for another 2 years contract?! Upgrade/Exchange program after 2 years?!

Good point Nasser. I called AT&T ans asked what will happen. I got 2 different answers, one being they will unlock the phone and the other being that the phone will have to stay locked and that I can get a new AT&T contract and transfer it to my phone.

In short, you guys in the States are getting screwed and not in the good way.
post #55 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Good point Nasser. I called AT&T ans asked what will happen. I got 2 different answers, one being they will unlock the phone and the other being that the phone will have to stay locked and that I can get a new AT&T contract and transfer it to my phone.

In short, you guys in the States are getting screwed and not in the good way.

Senior AT&T Wireless executives have stated in major American newspapers that they will unlock the iphones after your contract is done. This is not some lowly paid 25 year old kid who worked for the AT&T PR department (who doesn't know anything) getting interviewed by some gadget geek website.

http://iphone.macworld.com/2007/08/a...y_unlock_1.php

O2 UK has consistently said that your iphone has to remain with O2 after the contract in order for it to work. Germany's T-Mobile only promised to give out unlocking codes after the contract is finished --- when they were facing the judge in the Vodafone injunction hearing --- and their German price plan is really really expensive. The French people gets a really high price for the unlocked iphone and their monthly plan is really really expensive as well.

I don't see how Americans are getting screwed at all. AT&T voluntarily promised the unlocking code --- without facing some lawsuit in court. Americans enjoyed a much lowered hardware price for the iphone (compared to the Europeans) and enjoyed much better monthly price plans than the Europeans.
post #56 of 110
Quote:
In short, you guys in the States are getting screwed and not in the good way.

T-Mobile is the only other option for an unlocked iPhone. Their isn't very much choice. Which was my whole point about them using different technology.
post #57 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

T-Mobile is the only other option for an unlocked iPhone. Their isn't very much choice. Which was my whole point about them using different technology.

So what?

If you look at the French mobile market, there are only 3 national carriers --- with the top 2 French carriers owning 85% of the market.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._Europe#France
post #58 of 110
This article, like the other "where are all the iphones" articles which seem to appear every other day on AI is another load of horseshit.

The fact is that Apple released figures that were based on number of iPhones shipped, and not number of iPhones sold. This is a tactic more often used in the music industry, where albums frequently "ship platinum", which means, in the states, that a million copies are sent out to stores and NOT that a million people bought the album. It's a nice way to boost public opinion of a product, especially with a new piece of tech like iPhone, where many people are waiting to see if it's a successful product before they buy.

The above article is AI's way of trying to dissipate any negative opinion of Apple, but it is a load of horseshit. 400000 people in China have NOT bought unlocked iPhones.
post #59 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Senior AT&T Wireless executives have stated in major American newspapers that they will unlock the iphones after your contract is done. This is not some lowly paid 25 year old kid who worked for the AT&T PR department (who doesn't know anything) getting interviewed by some gadget geek website.

http://iphone.macworld.com/2007/08/a...y_unlock_1.php

O2 UK has consistently said that your iphone has to remain with O2 after the contract in order for it to work. Germany's T-Mobile only promised to give out unlocking codes after the contract is finished --- when they were facing the judge in the Vodafone injunction hearing --- and their German price plan is really really expensive. The French people gets a really high price for the unlocked iphone and their monthly plan is really really expensive as well.

I don't see how Americans are getting screwed at all. AT&T voluntarily promised the unlocking code --- without facing some lawsuit in court. Americans enjoyed a much lowered hardware price for the iphone (compared to the Europeans) and enjoyed much better monthly price plans than the Europeans.

You have some good points but also some of info was incorrect. Europeans enjoy low prices as well if they are willing to purchase a subsidized phone with a 2 year contract. These are not the crap that is sitting back in the inventory but state of the art, high speed, low drag, just released models. There is also the option to purchase the phone without the contract at retail prices, and ALL unlocked. You are a bit incorrect about the monthly plans. I will keep it local as I can only speak for my current location, Finland. My monthly connection costs are about $6, with my unlimited data plan costing approximately $14. I upped it to $29 with a guarantee of 1 meg. In normal conditions I get 7.2 meg/sec but in some areas where there is not as great a coverage, I am still allocated my 1 meg.

Maybe Apple should have become and MVNO and sold their own brand of wireless services.

I can not be sure but I think these new tariffs with the iPhone only came about as a result of the iPhones release. Personally I am glad that the Finnish operators turned Apple down, and would not consider the iPhone unless it has 3G.
post #60 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

This article, like the other "where are all the iphones" articles which seem to appear every other day on AI is another load of horseshit.

The fact is that Apple released figures that were based on number of iPhones shipped, and not number of iPhones sold. This is a tactic more often used in the music industry, where albums frequently "ship platinum", which means, in the states, that a million copies are sent out to stores and NOT that a million people bought the album. It's a nice way to boost public opinion of a product, especially with a new piece of tech like iPhone, where many people are waiting to see if it's a successful product before they buy.

The above article is AI's way of trying to dissipate any negative opinion of Apple, but it is a load of horseshit. 400000 people in China have NOT bought unlocked iPhones.

Nice!!!!!!
post #61 of 110
How many people here would immediately buy the iPhone at full price if it was made available on the carrier of your choice?

Count me as one.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #62 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

How many people here would immediately buy the iPhone at full price if it was made available on the carrier of your choice?

Count me as one.

How many people here bought an iPhone on a pre-paid service plan for $399.00 and immediately hacked an hour later and use it on a network of their own choosing?

Count me as one of the x million hacked iPhone users.
post #63 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

The above article is AI's way of trying to dissipate any negative opinion of Apple, but it is a load of horseshit. 400000 people in China have NOT bought unlocked iPhones.

Let's see, China Mobile is the world's largest mobile phone operator ranked by number of subscribers, with over 349.66 million customers.

So 400,000 iPhones would represent just over 1 tenth of 1 percent, i.e., 0.01142%. Seems reasonable.

Just got back from Shanghai. Lots of iPhones used. Lots of iPhones for sale.
post #64 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Personally I am glad that the Finnish operators turned Apple down, and would not consider the iPhone unless it has 3G.

Yep, 3G is big over there. It just passed 10% of the market;

European 3g Penetration Passes 10%
"The penetration of 3G services in Europe's connection base reached 10% in the latter part of October 2007, having stood at 9.75% at the end of the third quarter. W-CDMA net additions reached a record 9.1 million in the third quarter, up more than 1 million on the previous high of 8 million recorded three months ago, to leave the total customer base at 68.3 million." http://www.cellular-news.com/story/28153.php

Could you send me the link where Finnish operators turned Apple down. My understanding is that it is illegal in Finland to sell phones locked into carrier contracts unless it is 3G.

I would suspect that Nokia and the Finnish government as well as its people would be highly reluctant to let the iPhone loose. Much like Sweden's position on Ford and GM with SAAB and Volvo around.
post #65 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Let's see, China Mobile is the world's largest mobile phone operator ranked by number of subscribers, with over 349.66 million customers.

So 400,000 iPhones would represent just over 1 tenth of 1 percent, i.e., 0.01142%. Seems reasonable.

Just got back from Shanghai. Lots of iPhones used. Lots of iPhones for sale.

Interesting. Last year when I was in Hong Kong, I saw only 1 iPhone, and that was used by an American businessperson. I'm not surprised how quickly it has spread though, I also saw lots of HTC phones (popular no doubt due to pent up iPhone demand).

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #66 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Senior AT&T Wireless executives have stated in major American newspapers that they will unlock the iphones after your contract is done. This is not some lowly paid 25 year old kid who worked for the AT&T PR department (who doesn't know anything) getting interviewed by some gadget geek website.

http://iphone.macworld.com/2007/08/a...y_unlock_1.php

O2 UK has consistently said that your iphone has to remain with O2 after the contract in order for it to work. Germany's T-Mobile only promised to give out unlocking codes after the contract is finished --- when they were facing the judge in the Vodafone injunction hearing --- and their German price plan is really really expensive. The French people gets a really high price for the unlocked iphone and their monthly plan is really really expensive as well.

I don't see how Americans are getting screwed at all. AT&T voluntarily promised the unlocking code --- without facing some lawsuit in court. Americans enjoyed a much lowered hardware price for the iphone (compared to the Europeans) and enjoyed much better monthly price plans than the Europeans.

So are they shy to officially state this in the contract or on their website?
post #67 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

T-Mobile is the only other option for an unlocked iPhone. Their isn't very much choice. Which was my whole point about them using different technology.

Are you talking about the US market? TMobile offers much better rates and customer service. They are a MUCH better choice. Of course, you would have to give up visual voicemail but I'd rather do that than get gouged by AT&T.
post #68 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

How many people here would immediately buy the iPhone at full price if it was made available on the carrier of your choice?

Count me as one.


+1. I've been waiting for this since day one. I think I'm just going to buy and unlock one rather than wait for the AT&T exclusivity to expire.
post #69 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

+1. I've been waiting for this since day one. I think I'm just going to buy and unlock one rather than wait for the AT&T exclusivity to expire.

Smart move.
post #70 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Yep, 3G is big over there. It just passed 10% of the market;

European 3g Penetration Passes 10%
"The penetration of 3G services in Europe's connection base reached 10% in the latter part of October 2007, having stood at 9.75% at the end of the third quarter. W-CDMA net additions reached a record 9.1 million in the third quarter, up more than 1 million on the previous high of 8 million recorded three months ago, to leave the total customer base at 68.3 million." http://www.cellular-news.com/story/28153.php

Are you talking handsets that are 3G capable or actual usage? Considering the fact that many to most of the handsets in Finland are 3G capable, subscribers simply check their email, surf the web, etc... all via 3G. It is transparent in their lives. I use 3G daily but I do not do it as a conscience effort. My phone is book into the 3G network and is always connected.

Quote:
Could you send me the link where Finnish operators turned Apple down. My understanding is that it is illegal in Finland to sell phones locked into carrier contracts unless it is 3G.

Just as soon as you post a link with the exact terms of the Apple/AT&T deal. I got your attempt at some sort of levity but you know and I know these discussions will not see the light of day or have a public face. Apple wanted to launch here as well, but the lack of 3G was a deal breaker.

Quote:
I would suspect that Nokia and the Finnish government as well as its people would be highly reluctant to let the iPhone loose. Much like Sweden's position on Ford and GM with SAAB and Volvo around.

Why would Nokia fear the iPhone? Sure it is competition and I for one and glad to see the iPhone shake up the industry but, at the end of the day, Nokia sells more phones in a week than Apple sells in a month. Nokia is not sitting there hoping the iPhone will go away. They will respond.

By the way, your understanding that it is illegal to sell phones locked to a contract was actually posted by me in this forum a few weeks ago.
post #71 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Are you talking handsets that are 3G capable or actual usage? Considering the fact that many to most of the handsets in Finland are 3G capable, subscribers simply check their email, surf the web, etc... all via 3G. It is transparent in their lives. I use 3G daily but I do not do it as a conscience effort. My phone is book into the 3G network and is always connected.

No. It is the number of subscribers contracted to the 3G network.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Just as soon as you post a link with the exact terms of the Apple/AT&T deal. I got your attempt at some sort of levity but you know and I know these discussions will not see the light of day or have a public face. Apple wanted to launch here as well, but the lack of 3G was a deal breaker.

Fourth multi-sentence paragraph. http://www.wired.com/gadgets/wireles...?currentPage=1

As I stated, the law in Finland is that you cannot sell a (locked) cell phone locked to a contract, unless it is a 3g phone which are exempt from this ruling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Why would Nokia fear the iPhone? Sure it is competition and I for one and glad to see the iPhone shake up the industry but, at the end of the day, Nokia sells more phones in a week than Apple sells in a month. Nokia is not sitting there hoping the iPhone will go away. They will respond.

What I was saying was that it was obvious that they won't have to worry about the iPhone in Finland, much for the same reason that Honda, Toyota, etc., are not worried about Chrysler selling cars in Japan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

By the way, your understanding that it is illegal to sell phones locked to a contract was actually posted by me in this forum a few weeks ago.

As far as I can find out, this is exactly what you said, "Another factor, here in FInland anyway, is the fact that ALL subscription based contracts my be accompanied by a phone with 3G."

Would be very interested what it costs for a cell phone and monthly services in Finland.
post #72 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Interesting. Last year when I was in Hong Kong, I saw only 1 iPhone, and that was used by an American businessperson. I'm not surprised how quickly it has spread though, I also saw lots of HTC phones (popular no doubt due to pent up iPhone demand).

I live in HK and I see multiple iPhones every single day now, used mostly by 20-something and 30-something office workers. You also see iPhones for sale in every non-carrier mobile phone shop. There are easily tens of thousands in use and another ten thousand for sale.
post #73 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

How many people here would immediately buy the iPhone at full price if it was made available on the carrier of your choice?

Count me as one.

I love the iPhone (especially after many of its shortcomings are fixed with the SDK) and I love my carrier. But the only way I would uy an iPhone with my carrier is if it comes unlocked. I'm not the most frequent traveler, but I do travel, and when I do, I know I'm going to want to use it, without being gouged by roaming charges.
post #74 of 110
Quote:
So what? If you look at the French mobile market, there are only 3 national carriers --- with the top 2 French carriers owning 85% of the market.

I'm not sure what carriers in France have to do with the US. France has 3 major carriers and the iPhone will work on all three. The US has 4 major carriers and the iPhone will only work 2. We only have choice of the dominant carrier or the smallest carrier.

Quote:
This article, like the other "where are all the iphones" articles which seem to appear every other day on AI is another load of horseshit.

How can you really know this for sure.

Quote:
The fact is that Apple released figures that were based on number of iPhones shipped, and not number of iPhones sold.

That is not a fact. That was a speculation made by one analyst who was trying to explain the discrepancy between the number of phones Apple reported sold and the number of phones reported by partner carriers. The truth is those phones are in the grey market.

Quote:
"The penetration of 3G services in Europe's connection base reached 10% in the latter part of October 2007, having stood at 9.75% at the end of the third quarter."

Yes clearly everybody in Europe demands and expects 3G.

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Verizon Wireless is the most profitable wireless carrier in the US. So all the other carriers are wrong with their technology choices.

This past quarter Verizon earned 23.8 billion in revenue, AT&T earned 30.1 billion in revenue.

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Secondly, Apple has created the world's most crippled cell phone for the supposedly "open" GSM world.

Nonsense.

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Are you talking about the US market? TMobile offers much better rates and customer service. They are a MUCH better choice. Of course, you would have to give up visual voicemail but I'd rather do that than get gouged by AT&T.

That's a matter of opinion. AT&T and Verizon are the two most expensive carriers. Of the 250 million mobile phone users they both hold a combined 132 million. T-Mobile is in fourth place with 28 million.
post #75 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

No. It is the number of subscribers contracted to the 3G network.

As I stated, you get a phone, pick a service and you get 3G automatically. It's not like you can say: "please, no 3G with my contract." It's already there. You can manually select to use only GSM on your phone if you want but you have to select this option.

Quote:

I was talking about the actual contract between Apple and AT&T, but thanks for the link.

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As I stated, the law in Finland is that you cannot sell a (locked) cell phone locked to a contract, unless it is a 3g phone which are exempt from this ruling.

Uhhhhh...... Finland does not lock handsets to specific networks. They are a bit more mature here.

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As far as I can find out, this is exactly what you said, "Another factor, here in FInland anyway, is the fact that ALL subscription based contracts my be accompanied by a phone with 3G."

This is true. If your get a two year subscription, your phone has to have 3G. Plan and simple.

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Would be very interested what it costs for a cell phone and monthly services in Finland.

www.dnafinland.fi is a great place to start. My unlimited data plan is approximately, $14.50 at today's exchange rate (www.oanda.com). My entire service (subscription) is $10. Combined, I pay: $24.50 for unlimited data, and I can mix and match as I please. Add a service, drop a service. Very flexible.
post #76 of 110
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Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Uhhhhh...... Finland does not lock handsets to specific networks. They are a bit more mature here.

Actually, no --- they are not mature at all.

Quote:

"Subsidies on mobile handsets has in Finland been prohibited since 1997. Instead of handset subsidies Finnish mobile operators attract subscribers by offering packages of free talk time or other bundled goods (e.g. digital cameras, backpacks, and DVD players)."

http://www.netlab.tkk.fi/opetus/s380...berg_paper.pdf

I find it even more troubling for the consumers when carriers bundled something that is totally unrelated with cell phone service.
post #77 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I'm not sure what carriers in France have to do with the US. France has 3 major carriers and the iPhone will work on all three. The US has 4 major carriers and the iPhone will only work 2. We only have choice of the dominant carrier or the smallest carrier.

Look at the monthly phone plans in France --- they are very expensive.

99% of the population would rather have 4 US national carriers with the largest carrier being weaker than the number 2 carrier (VZW). This is how AT&T had to eat up the Apple iphone tax all by themselves (US iphone plan is the same as regular price voice plan plus regular price data plan --- consumer paid zero iphone tax).

When the top 2 French carriers have 85% of the market --- that's how things get really duopolistic and the consumers suffers.
post #78 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

So are they shy to officially state this in the contract or on their website?

Why should they need to officially state this in the contract?

AT&T has always provided unlocking codes to their customers for FREE --- without any laws requiring them to.

What has all these so-called European sim-locking laws have done --- absolutely nothing.
post #79 of 110
Quote:
99% of the population would rather have 4 US national carriers with the largest carrier being weaker than the number 2 carrier (VZW). This is how AT&T had to eat up the Apple iphone tax all by themselves (US iphone plan is the same as regular price voice plan plus regular price data plan --- consumer paid zero iphone tax). When the top 2 French carriers have 85% of the market --- that's how things get really duopolistic and the consumers suffers.

I'm not really understanding any of this.
post #80 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

You are a bit incorrect about the monthly plans.

I can not be sure but I think these new tariffs with the iPhone only came about as a result of the iPhones release.

There will always be price plan specials.

But if you look the regular price monthly plans --- i.e. the "professional" plans in France and Germany --- they are more expensive than American regular price monthly plans.

This is the only way to compare prices in the 2 continents --- regular price monthly plans vs. regular price monthly plans.
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