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Toshiba rumored to quit HD DVD as Wal-Mart pulls support - Page 8

post #281 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

Gears was a sleeper. Nobody knew anything about it then BAM!!.

Actually, I saw a ton of TV commercials for GoW. Loved the song they used too... 'Mad World' by Gary Jules.


Quote:
I'm ashamed to admit I haven't purchased Bioshock yet! Too many games came out close to each other last year that I wanted. I am definitely buying it though. Loved the demo.

My friends who've played it are pretty rabid about it. It should turn into a nice franchise.


Quote:
I'm just so enamoured with COD4 and so are my online friends. With the little time I have to game and being a social gamer , that's what I've been playing.

I heard CoD4 actually outsold Halo 3. That's impressive.


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post #282 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

Developers have been quoted as saying they prefer the XBox 360 hard drive for faster read access during a game. So they may use the PS3 drive for some storage but not too much or the game will run too slow. MS has also told developers they can start using the hard drive (used to be a no-no when the XBox360 first came out) as long as they provide a sticker on the game. I don't see that as a problem since nobody has the basic no drive console anymore but those memory sticks can still be used for all the consoles anyway.

These are both pretty sophisticated machines. I'm sure the PS3 developers can load whatever they must to the HDD while the game is playing so that it is available instantly when needed. To be able to do this with one very large disk in the machine, rather than having two or three DVD's for the same amount of video's scenery, etc, is a major advantage.

Also, the base 360's drive is only 20 GB. Not much can be held on that in a permanent way. The Base Sony has a 40 GB drive, a bit better, and with the BR drive, it doesn't need to have data downloaded to the drive before the game starts for some time, if the game is bigger than one DVD.
post #283 of 312
This might be a little off topic...but there was a story in the Sydney Morning Herald recently about XBox360 damaging discs...I wouldn't even touch an XBox360 with a 10-foot pole after reading this...I don't care which one is easier to develop for!

Xbox not up to scratch, say gamers
Louisa Hearn
February 19, 2008


Kelly Parkinson thought he had found the perfect gift when he splashed out more than $600 on a brand new Xbox 360 for his son's 15th birthday last year.

Six months down the track, Mr Parkinson claims the machine has destroyed $200 worth of games bought from his son's own pocket money and is now effectively defunct.

Hardware problems with early models of the Xbox 360 have proved a high-profile thorn in Microsoft's ambitions to dominate the console market. The worst and most widespread of these - the infamous "red ring of death" (RROD) - moved the company to extend its 12-month warranty to three years last June.

But reports of other hardware problems such as faulty disc drives and scratched game discs not covered in the extended warranty, have also persisted - although Microsoft has never acknowledged these as flaws.

Mr Parkinson's trouble began in November when his son was playing American football game Madden NFL 2007. The game suddenly displayed an error message and, when his son removed it from the drive, it had a large circular scratch on it.

"It was a very clear mechanical circle," Mr Parkinson said.

The machine was sent under warranty to Microsoft for repairs but a month after it was returned, the very same thing happened - this time leaving a deep scratch in basketball game NBS 2K8.

Mr Parkinson said that Microsoft's position on scratched games was that they were caused by mishandling the console, but he maintained his son's Xbox 360 had never left its shelf.

"When I called Microsoft about the problem, in every third sentence they would ask: 'Did you move the Xbox?' Even though they won't admit there is a problem, they keep offering a repair."

Mr Parkinson said that, under Victorian law, he believed he was entitled to a refund for faulty goods - and said his complaint had been accepted by Consumer Affairs Victoria.

"I feel like we can't play games or do anything with it without being at risk each time of losing a $100 game that the company will not reimburse. The Xbox 360 is not fit for the purpose it was intended for - it scratches games, making them unplayable, even after repair."

Although Microsoft was unable to discuss exact details of its policies regarding scratched discs, it says it takes all customer concerns very seriously and suggests any users experiencing hardware problems contact its help desk. "We believe it is important to work with our customers to resolve any issues they are experiencing," the company wrote in an email statement.

Electronic Warranty company Square Trade last week issued a report on the number of service calls it had recorded for the Xbox 360, revealing a 16.4 per cent normal-use failure rate - well in excess of the 3-5 per cent failure rate Microsoft announced a year ago.

Although 60 per cent of service calls were RROD problems, it says that disc read errors accounted for nearly half of the remaining claims. "Other problems we see crop up fairly often are fried video cards, hardware freezes, on/off failures and, interestingly, disc tray malfunctions that also tend to damage game discs," it said.

However Microsoft has dismissed the report, saying that, based on its own community's feedback, the methodology of the report was "suspect".

Microsoft's own terms and conditions state that Xbox 360 users experiencing non-RROD problems out of the 12-month warranty period must pay a fee each time their machine is sent off for repairs. But this has proved too expensive for Paul Frew, the owner of two defunct Xbox 360s with malfunctioning disc drives.

"I've already wasted $1400 on two Xboxes, but I still have my original PS2 which is turning eight years old," he said.

Mr Frew has chosen not to shell out the $132 fee for fixing each of his Xbox 360s, given the company can provide no guarantee that the faults will not crop up again.

Instead he has opted to rent a new Xbox 360 so that he is not liable for any future servicing costs.

"A customer service representative told me that 'apparently' Microsoft is looking at extending the three-year warranty to other issues and if it does get approved for disk problems then I will be refunded my $132," he said. But as the representative could not give a time frame on the decision he had decided not to proceed.

In a survey of its members this week, Mojo, an Australian Xbox community of about 100 gamers aged 25 and above, asked how many times they had had their Xbox 360s replaced or repaired.

Out of the 37 respondents, 16 (43%) said they sent their Xbox 360 in for repairs once, six (16%) said they had sent it in twice and seven (18%) claimed to have clocked up three repairs. Another three (8%) members had sent their box in for repairs more than four times while five (13%) members reported no problems at all.

A community member, with the gamer-tag Jugadero, said: "As far as loyal customers go, you'd be hard pressed to find more ardent supporters of Microsoft's console and related products. However, we're not so one-eyed that we don't know when we've been dealt with shabbily, and it's time someone took Microsoft to task."
post #284 of 312
^ Ouch. The 360 has a few really nice games on it, but Microsoft sure isn't making any friends with these kind of huge and pervasive reliability problems.

You also have to wonder how much money MS will really clear in this console generation, after they've paid off all the warranty repair costs. This is on top of losing $6 billion or so on the Xbox 1.

With them about to spend $50 billion on acquiring Yahoo, do they really want to remain in a business that's been cash negative for them overall?




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post #285 of 312
The damaged discs are happening for two reasons: 1) being that people are stupid enough to move around their Xbox with a disc inside and 2) because people are running their Xbox360 on it's side vertically instead of horizontally. The latter being because Microsoft is stupid enoough to encourage it and a lot of buyers are stupid enough not to consider why this may not be a good idea.
post #286 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post


A community member, with the gamer-tag Jugadero, said: "As far as loyal customers go, you'd be hard pressed to find more ardent supporters of Microsoft's console and related products. However, we're not so one-eyed that we don't know when we've been dealt with shabbily, and it's time someone took Microsoft to task."

I don't think they are Microsoft supporters as much as Xbox 360 addicts.


Buy them from Best Buy and get their warranty in case you have any problems. I never had any but if I do all I'll have to do is drive to the Best Buy next to my house and get a new replacement. None of this shippping to Microsoft business for me.

Also, Best Buy sells game disk insurance for games from all consoles. It's a good buy for people who carry their games all over the place and tend to scratch them. It's just like $4 at the time of purchase. If your disc gets scratched they give you a new one. I love buying my toys at Best Buy because of their lenient warranty plans.
post #287 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Actually, I saw a ton of TV commercials for GoW. Loved the song they used too... 'Mad World' by Gary Jules.

Yeah but nobody knew how good the game would be. I remember those commercials and they never made me think about buying the game. Funny.


Quote:
I heard CoD4 actually outsold Halo 3. That's impressive.


.


COD4 kicked Halo3's butt to the moon! It was voted Game Of The Year by the Xbox Live users too. It beat Halo 3 there in many categories.
post #288 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by penchanted View Post

This will have little impact on Xbox 360 since the HD-DVD player is an accessory rather than being built-in. Expect Microsoft to quietly make a new Blu-Ray accessory in the no-to-distant future.


The madness is why M$ made it an accessory and never a standard. Rather than sit on the fence though like apple they gave customers an option that was the most cost effective to them. BR licensing is horrible.

Who really cares though who won. It's not like the hddvd drive set anyone back more than $200. And its not like your movies will stop working, no investments lost really. So you have to buy a BR drive, probably would have to get one anyway, even it was still split.
post #289 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post

This might be a little off topic...but there was a story in the Sydney Morning Herald recently about XBox360 damaging discs...I wouldn't even touch an XBox360 with a 10-foot pole after reading this...I don't care which one is easier to develop for!

This is NOT new. The story about the 360 scratching disks goes back to the very beginning of the launch.

It has also been said that DVD playback quality is very poor. I don't know if that problem was fixed, though the scratching was supposedly fixed, but maybe some have slipped through even now.

All in all, the 360 is a crock.
post #290 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

This is NOT new. The story about the 360 scratching disks goes back to the very beginning of the launch.

It has also been said that DVD playback quality is very poor. I don't know if that problem was fixed, though the scratching was supposedly fixed, but maybe some have slipped through even now.

All in all, the 360 is a crock.

DVD playback is fine, at least I think it is indistinguishable from PS3 dvd playback, but I run them both through a $2500 video scaler. I have my 360 vertical, and no scratched disks but I also don't move it while there is a disk in the drive (or at all, in fact).

A lot of people had scratched disks in the beginning, but we have learned not to move the unit while playing and so a behavior change fixed it. No behavior change fixes the red ring of death, though.
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post #291 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrod182 View Post

The madness is why M$ made it an accessory and never a standard. Rather than sit on the fence though like apple they gave customers an option that was the most cost effective to them. BR licensing is horrible.

Microsoft didn't want to include HD-DVD on every console because it would've made the 360 considerably more expensive. They felt they needed every advantage vs the PS3, including price. And in worked, in the short-term. In the long-term, though, it's a negative.

MS denied the 360 the ability to use higher-capacity disks, which will affect what can be done with some kinds of games. And, of course, there's some very unhappy owners of 360 HD-DVD add-ons out there right now.

I'm sure MS will rush to get a Blu-Ray add-on out for the 360, but the combined cost of a 360 plus the BR add-on will very likely be more than an equivalent PS3. Plus MS now looks like a follower.

There's probably not much joy in Redmond tonight... \


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post #292 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

The damaged discs are happening for two reasons: 1) being that people are stupid enough to move around their Xbox with a disc inside and 2) because people are running their Xbox360 on it's side vertically instead of horizontally.

The latter being because Microsoft is stupid enoough to encourage it and a lot of buyers are stupid enough not to consider why this may not be a good idea.


Another part of it may be that a lot of ppl ran their PS2s vertically with no problems, so they think its okay to do it with the 360 too.


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post #293 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Another part of it may be that a lot of ppl ran their PS2s vertically with no problems, so they think its okay to do it with the 360 too.


.

Vertical 360 use is fine, no scratches. It even has feet on the end to encourage you to place it vertically or horizontally. It is supposed to work that way, unless maybe people are putting it upside down?
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post #294 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Why was mdotdubz banned? I didn't read anything from him that would warrant a banning.

I dunno, lol... apparently i called someone a name. I think it was idiot or something. reminds me of third grade.

yeah, i guess i was a bit hostile about the ps3 and bluray. i wish them no harm, but non-techy people have no idea what it is. DVD on the other hand, i remember, was being whispered by people who barely know anything beyond turning a TV on and off.

Some of us forget that most of the world's population is not technical and the simplest or oldest concepts to us are foreign or completely unknown to them.

It appears to me that Bluray has been around for a while without picking up enough steam with the general public. It might be more widely accepted, but I don't see the impact of BD being as large as DVD. People are reluctant to let DVD go because they don't understand the benefits of BD.

I myself see it as a waste to adopt now and am pretty content with DVDs & their quality, and dare I say that I recently even moved beyond the DVD to renting films on iTunes and playing them off my iPhone. I love it because its like a portable DVD player that fits in my pocket and I can hook up to any Big Screen DVD with just a simple cable. So far, nobody has complained about the quality of the iPhone on TV (nobody has even noticed) and most are impressed i'm running movies of my phone onto the big screen!

Well, in any case, I'm back, so you can light the torches and whip the pitchforks out!
post #295 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Vertical 360 use is fine, no scratches.


4metta disagrees. Perhaps you two should compare notes and get to the bottom of this?


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post #296 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdotdubz View Post

I dunno, lol... apparently i called someone a name. I think it was idiot or something. reminds me of third grade.

Well, there seemed to be a pretty consistent flow of "idiot" and "loser" comments coming from you. Not horrible, as Internet manners go, but here at AI that kind of behavior will get you shot down by the mods pretty quickly.


Quote:
yeah, i guess i was a bit hostile about the ps3 and bluray. i wish them no harm, but non-techy people have no idea what it is.

The majority of ppl at AI are reasonably technical, actually. They just did not seem to agree with you, for the most part.


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post #297 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Vertical 360 use is fine, no scratches. It even has feet on the end to encourage you to place it vertically or horizontally. It is supposed to work that way, unless maybe people are putting it upside down?

I don't think it's the position but when you tilt from one to the other while the disc is spinning is the problem. That seems kind of bizarre to me, I've never thought to rotate a game system while it's in use.
post #298 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I don't think it's the position but when you tilt from one to the other while the disc is spinning is the problem. That seems kind of bizarre to me, I've never thought to rotate a game system while it's in use.

eeek! I wouldn't do that.
post #299 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdotdubz View Post

eeek! I wouldn't do that.

Eeek indeed.
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post #300 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

The damaged discs are happening for two reasons: 1) being that people are stupid enough to move around their Xbox with a disc inside and 2) because people are running their Xbox360 on it's side vertically instead of horizontally. The latter being because Microsoft is stupid enoough to encourage it and a lot of buyers are stupid enough not to consider why this may not be a good idea.

The moving it around, no! Not the problem. People have reported that they are not doing that, and I believe it. No reason to think that people are holding their machines while using them.

Playing it on the side is fine.

The iMacs have their DVD recorders mounted that way as well. No reports of scratched disks.

In fact, many players are designated as being fine with sideways play.
post #301 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

DVD playback is fine, at least I think it is indistinguishable from PS3 dvd playback, but I run them both through a $2500 video scaler. I have my 360 vertical, and no scratched disks but I also don't move it while there is a disk in the drive (or at all, in fact).

A lot of people had scratched disks in the beginning, but we have learned not to move the unit while playing and so a behavior change fixed it. No behavior change fixes the red ring of death, though.

This has been widely reported. As I said, it may have been fixed, I'm not sure.
post #302 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Another part of it may be that a lot of ppl ran their PS2s vertically with no problems, so they think its okay to do it with the 360 too.


.

Vertical use is not the problem. It's likely that there were a very large bunch of defective drives. The console is shown as being used vertically, as is the Wii, the PS3, and the iMac.
post #303 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Vertical use is not the problem. It's likely that there were a very large bunch of defective drives. The console is shown as being used vertically, as is the Wii, the PS3, and the iMac.

Difference in the iMac being that it's not a sliding tray mechanism that comes out. That's the catch for me. The iMac has that nice narrow groove on the side like macbooks do.

Personally, I never like the idea of putting sliding trays sideways. I don't care what any manufacturer shows in the pics either. There's that lag before the disc is engaged and when it's horizontal at least gravity helps keep the disc balanced well on the tray. Call me anal retentive but I've never had a scratched disc in any machine that has one. Computer or Xbox.
post #304 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I don't think it's the position but when you tilt from one to the other while the disc is spinning is the problem. That seems kind of bizarre to me, I've never thought to rotate a game system while it's in use.

I'm sure plenty of kids are doing that. Course they would never tell mommie that.

What cracks me up is watching everybody at Xbox 360 LAN parties arrive jostling their Xboxes with the games in there. That's why I never bring my copies. Let people screw up their own discs if they don't care.
post #305 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

Difference in the iMac being that it's not a sliding tray mechanism that comes out. That's the catch for me. The iMac has that nice narrow groove on the side like macbooks do. That's the catch for me.

Personally, I never like the idea of putting sliding trays sideways. I don't care what any manufacturer shows in the pics either. There's that lag before the disc is engaged and when it's horizontal at least gravity helps keep the disc balanced well on the tray. Call me anal retentive but I've never had a scratched disc in any machine that has one. Computer or Xbox.

I've had many Cd and DVD mechanisms that have those small sliding catches around the tray that can be slipped over the disk. Most trays still have the four spaces for them. The specs I've seen from OEM drives have stated that vetical use is indicated.

If the drive MS uses, or used, should have not been operated that way, always possible, as MS has shown that their design for the 360 is seriously flawed in other ways as well, then it's still the fault of MS for showing the 360 in a vertical position most all the time.

You can't blame the users for doing what the manufacturer says they can do. It's still a design flaw.
post #306 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I've had many Cd and DVD mechanisms that have those small sliding catches around the tray that can be slipped over the disk. Most trays still have the four spaces for them. The specs I've seen from OEM drives have stated that vetical use is indicated.

If the drive MS uses, or used, should have not been operated that way, always possible, as MS has shown that their design for the 360 is seriously flawed in other ways as well, then it's still the fault of MS for showing the 360 in a vertical position most all the time.

You can't blame the users for doing what the manufacturer says they can do. It's still a design flaw.


Like I said, I still wouldn't do it. I don't care what anyone says. So I wouldn't know if it's a design flaw nor would I discover if anything else had a design flaw in the tray mechanism.
post #307 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4metta View Post

Like I said, I still wouldn't do it. I don't care what anyone says. So I wouldn't know if it's a design flaw nor would I discover if anything else had a design flaw in the tray mechanism.

I'm not criticizing your use. I'm just saying that if the drive in the 360 shouldn't be used that way for some reason, and MS is promoting using it that way, then their design is flawed. They should have made sure the drive they bought was capable of being used in that manner.
post #308 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I'm not criticizing your use. I'm just saying that if the drive in the 360 shouldn't be used that way for some reason, and MS is promoting using it that way, then their design is flawed. They should have made sure the drive they bought was capable of being used in that manner.

I am telling you that I have played hundreds of disks with my 360 vertical, and they are all pristine and perfect still. The tray has a little lip on the bottom that holds the disk from falling out.

The 360 is a crap machine, noisy, poorly designed, expensive when you add all the add on crap like the wireless dongle, hot, and it self destructs by de-soldering its own processor, but the drive is fine.
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post #309 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I am telling you that I have played hundreds of disks with my 360 vertical, and they are all pristine and perfect still. The tray has a little lip on the bottom that holds the disk from falling out.

You might have noticed in my previous posts, that I'm the one saying that vertical use should be ok, and that the problems of scratched disks shouldn't be from that.

I'm responding to 4metta, who IS saying the machine shouldn't be used that way.

Quote:
The 360 is a crap machine, noisy, poorly designed, expensive when you add all the add on crap like the wireless dongle, hot, and it self destructs by de-soldering its own processor, but the drive is fine.

There have been too many reports, for too long a time, about scratched disks, for something not to have been wrong, at least in a certain number of machines. It doesn't mean that all machines were affected.
post #310 of 312
Weird. It's a spambot like one of those Japanese WWII soldiers hiding on some Pacific Island, unaware that the war was long over....

It's alright little fella. You can go home.
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post #311 of 312
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Originally Posted by addabox View Post

It's alright little fella. You can go home.

We need an official spambot rustler for AppleInsider.

Strangely though, I like how these nostalgic posts are dug up.

HD-DVD is long dead, and Xbox360 actually got fixed up.
post #312 of 312
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Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

We need an official spambot rustler for AppleInsider.

I'll do it. I'm here a fair bit.

Quote:
HD-DVD is long dead

I still use my players (two standalone, one in my Mac Pro) to watch my discs. It's not dead for me.

'Course, I still have two working Laserdisc players that I use for nostalgia purposes, so what do I know.
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That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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