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Report: iPhone SDK pushed back to March - Page 2

post #41 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Maybe this is an aside to this topic but are people here deluded into thinking that "Steve" is their friend and let's them in on the inner workings of Apple and its decision processes? Steve's loyalty is to the shareholder and the current Mrs. Jobs. Period. If "Steve" could get us to buy air without providing an oxygen component, he would. Steve Jobs and Apple are not our friends. They are a company that survives on our good graces and our ability to purchase their products. What do you think would happen if there was a one month boycott of Apple products? They would have a sh..t hemorrhage. As long as Apple feels they can treat customers the way they do and have a hard core base of apologists, there is no reason for them to change their behavior.

P.S. Didn't mean to sound so cynical but the truth is the truth.

There is a difference between Cynicism and Despite. The former sometimes shows us the truth, the latter almost never does.

For those who have followed Apple for a long time, Jobs' greatest loyalty seems to be to some sort of inner vision. Call it obsessiveness, compulsiveness, perfectionism, being a control freak, or whatever. Personally, having seen the astuteness with which that vision leads to great products, I'm happy to give the man a pass. But there have been long stretches of time when his determination to follow that vision were felt to be disservices to the shareholders. He does seek high margins. That's life. There's an enormous R&D budget at Apple, too.

It's not being an apologist to tell someone to grow up a little.
post #42 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Thanks for a great common sense post Ronbo. To see grown adults whine and moan over this is more than amusing. Things happen, delays happen. The very same ones complaining that there is a delay will be the same ones complaining that Apple should have taken their time and done it properly.

And I appreciate your comment. We see eye to eye on some points. We can agree to disagree on others.

(now if I can somehow get you to stop using that Steve-selling-oxygen line )
post #43 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Maybe this is an aside to this topic but are people here deluded into thinking that "Steve" is their friend and let's them in on the inner workings of Apple and its decision processes? Steve's loyalty is to the shareholder and the current Mrs. Jobs. Period. If "Steve" could get us to buy air without providing an oxygen component, he would. Steve Jobs and Apple are not our friends. They are a company that survives on our good graces and our ability to purchase their products. What do you think would happen if there was a one month boycott of Apple products? They would have a sh..t hemorrhage. As long as Apple feels they can treat customers the way they do and have a hard core base of apologists, there is no reason for them to change their behavior.

P.S. Didn't mean to sound so cynical but the truth is the truth.

Well I think my post was more about Apple doing a better job at managing peoples expectations. If it's late, then fine it's late, just say so! up front. Instead of waiting until the last possible minute and then changing the release date. It's just rude.

By posting the press release and committing to the end of Feb. You set an expectation and if that is missed then people will obviously be pissed.

That why I said they should have just have said 1st quarter which only would have given them a better buffer if their plans didn't work out. Apple have had a few knocks in the media's eye recently, which they can ill afford.
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post #44 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

And I appreciate your comment. We see eye to eye on some points. We can agree to disagree on others.

(now if I can somehow get you to stop using that Steve-selling-oxygen line )

I'll reply to both of your relies. I agree we can disagree while agreeing. Now if we can just get the Palestinians and Israelis together, anyway, I digress. Apple, in my opinion took the easy way out with the iPhone. It could be soooooooooo much better than it is with little or no work for a company of Apples stature. They bailed and dumped a substandard product on the market (by the way, I have one so I am ranting as well , besides I have a relative working for AT&T that hooked me up. ) that is maybe not used to really high end devices. The latest batch from Nokia, SE, Samsung, and a few others are clearly hi-tech devices. Apple could easily eat these guys lunch and come back for desert.

As for the SDK, I would rather it late and working than early and crap. My homage to the apologists concerned a blind devotion to anything that Apple does, even when it screws up.

Feel free to use my "air" comment as you see fit. Nice discussing with you.
post #45 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadunne View Post

Well I think my post was more about Apple doing a better job at managing peoples expectations. If it's late, then fine it's late, just say so! up front. Instead of waiting until the last possible minute and then changing the release date. It's just rude.

By posting the press release and committing to the end of Feb. You set an expectation and if that is missed then people will obviously be pissed.

That why I said they should have just have said 1st quarter which only would have given them a better buffer if their plans didn't work out. Apple have had a few knocks in the media's eye recently, which they can ill afford.

Good point. The problem is, Apple almost never admits a problem unless it is plastered all over the news and they have to say something. When I used the term apologists, I was referring to certain media outlets that fail to hold Apples feet to the fire when the make a boo-boo, but your point is well taken.
post #46 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

They bailed and dumped a substandard product on the market (by the way, I have one so I am ranting as well ,

I don't think they bailed I think they concentrated on the features that would be useful to people instead of feature loading. The N95 has more features but the user experience is really bad..

Features are missing from the iphone and need to be added in. I think they would have added those features if they had the time. The same thing happened to Mac OSX they had to cut features that Mac os 9 had in order to get the thing out (spring loaded folders etc) and over (a long) time they added those features back in.
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post #47 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Good point. The problem is, Apple almost never admits a problem unless it is plastered all over the news and they have to say something. When I used the term apologists, I was referring to certain media outlets that fail to hold Apples feet to the fire when the make a boo-boo, but your point is well taken.

The cynic in me thinks Apple planted this "rumour", which luckly came out on friday night. So people could have the weekend to get used to the idea before the stock market opens on monday

Maybe they are managing our expectations in a slightly backwards way.
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post #48 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadunne View Post

The cynic in me thinks Apple planted this "rumour", which luckly came out on friday night. So people could have the weekend to get used to the idea before the stock market opens on monday

Maybe they are managing our expectations in a slightly backwards way.

Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!
post #49 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadunne View Post

The cynic in me thinks Apple planted this "rumour", which luckly came out on friday night. So people could have the weekend to get used to the idea before the stock market opens on monday

Maybe they are managing our expectations in a slightly backwards way.

Sure sounds to me like this thread has finally found itself mangled in multiple levels of intertwined logical knots at this point.
post #50 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

There are already quite a few apps for the iPhone. The difference between the ones now and the ones that Apple will be releasing is that the apps out there now are free. Apple is probably delayed because their payment system is not in place yet.

What does this have to do with what I wrote? It's like you didn't even bother to read the comment and just needed some pretext to post. Did I write that there are no apps out? Did I write that new ones would or won't be free? FYI, I know all about free iPhone apps. I've got quite a few of them on my iPod Touch, enough to require a second page of icons on the Springboard.
post #51 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

What does this have to do with what I wrote? It's like you didn't even bother to read the comment and just needed some pretext to post. Did I write that there are no apps out? Did I write that new ones would or won't be free? FYI, I know all about free iPhone apps. I've got quite a few of them on my iPod Touch, enough to require a second page of icons on the Springboard.

Actually Kolchak, that's my bad. I did not mean to post in reply to your post. Sorry. I was thinking left and posted right. After I went back, and realized I meant to post on two or three about yours. Yes the apps are out there. I have three pages myself on my iPhone.
post #52 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadunne View Post

Well I think my post was more about Apple doing a better job at managing peoples expectations. If it's late, then fine it's late, just say so! up front. Instead of waiting until the last possible minute and then changing the release date. It's just rude.

That's the thing about missing a deadline - you don't know it's going to happen until the last moment. And while you're bemoaning Apple missing this deadline, guess what? The deadline has not come yet! If they were to come out tomorrow and say they are delaying it 1-3 weeks, then they would be doing so one week BEFORE the deadline. I think that's a reasonable amount of time left to look down at the calendar and say gee, the work we have to do can't be done in one week.
post #53 of 75
I heard from http://www.personafile.com/products (2nd post down today) that the SDK is due to iTunes not being ready. This seems possible, but its just as likely that 3rd party apps aren't ready for a prime time demo by Jobs. something Apple doesn't control!
post #54 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by feb21 View Post

I heard from http://www.personafile.com/products (2nd post down today) that the SDK is due to iTunes not being ready. This seems possible, but its just as likely that 3rd party apps aren't ready for a prime time demo by Jobs. something Apple doesn't control!

The problem is that neither problem would prevent releasing the SDK to the developers. iTunes does not have to be ready for the developers to start writing their applications. It just has to be ready when the developers are ready to release their apps. (Unless this iTunes update is required for the developers to install their apps on the iPhone for testing.) And why would unfinished third party apps hold up the release of an Apple product? That would only happen if the third party app was required for the Apple product to function. I don't think that would be the case fore an SDK.
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post #55 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by aresee View Post

The problem is that neither problem would prevent releasing the SDK to the developers. iTunes does not have to be ready for the developers to start writing their applications. It just has to be ready when the developers are ready to release their apps. (Unless this iTunes update is required for the developers to install their apps on the iPhone for testing.) And why would unfinished third party apps hold up the release of an Apple product? That would only happen if the third party app was required for the Apple product to function. I don't think that would be the case fore an SDK.

Aren't there third party apps already out there? I have a bunch of them on my iPhone and iPod Touch. So the hold up can't be the apps unless Apple wants to put a: "Blessed by Jobs" stamp on each and every one.

It could be simply that they slipped the date, but February is not over yet.
post #56 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Thanks for a great common sense post Ronbo. To see grown adults whine and moan over this is more than amusing. Things happen, delays happen. The very same ones complaining that there is a delay will be the same ones complaining that Apple should have taken their time and done it properly.

I don't care for the delay. I would rather have fully working apps rolled out, and a cool Apple event, than half-assed work and a sloppy press release.

Bring on the SDK, I can't wait for cool apps and will gladly pay $5-10!
post #57 of 75
i would pay 1-5.
post #58 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmber View Post

i would pay 1-5.

That seems more iTunes like.

"iPhone apps now only $2.99 or $1.99"

They would really sell like hotcakes then

PS app of the week $0.99!
post #59 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdotdubz View Post

I don't care for the delay. I would rather have fully working apps rolled out, and a cool Apple event, than half-assed work and a sloppy press release.

Bring on the SDK, I can't wait for cool apps and will gladly pay $5-10!

Name one person that is happy about a delay. Be realistic. Jailbreak your phone and get the same apps now for free.
post #60 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Name one person that is happy about a delay. Be realistic. Jailbreak your phone and get the same apps now for free.

No thanks. I'd rather wait for stable stuff from trusted programmers, not a rogue squad of talented hackers.

I'd rather see useful apps from large, name-brand companies as opposed to barely working cheap hacks (no offense).

I tried jailbreak, although cute, something like iPhones 1.1.3 update are much better. Jailbreak only got me more excited about SDK

Plus I'd rather just spend $5 and get a app that works, simply plug in my iPhone and DL it with no hassles. Jailbreaking your phone with confusing install procedures that takes hours for the average person seems like a waste of time to me. And not being able to use Apple's cool updates when they come out sucks too!
post #61 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Hopefully we'll begin seeing applications for the iPhone by late this year. Some of the stuff coming out so far on Android is truly impressive. iPhone development has a lot to catch up on.

not to disregard your valid point about android's impressive features, but android isn't out yet, so the comparison isn't really valid here. let's see what it's going up against closer to its first device's release date.

one thing's for sure: the loser here is microsoft.
post #62 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdotdubz View Post

No thanks. I'd rather wait for stable stuff from trusted programmers, not a rogue squad of talented hackers.

I'd rather see useful apps from large, name-brand companies as opposed to barely working cheap hacks (no offense).

I tried jailbreak, although cute, something like iPhones 1.1.3 update are much better. Jailbreak only got me more excited about SDK

Plus I'd rather just spend $5 and get a app that works, simply plug in my iPhone and DL it with no hassles. Jailbreaking your phone with confusing install procedures that takes hours for the average person seems like a waste of time to me. And not being able to use Apple's cool updates when they come out sucks too!


I to not think you have a real understanding of how the jailbreak/unlock process works. For one, I can unlock an jailbreak my iPhone faster than you can activate your phone via iTunes. Max time, 2 mins and 45 seconds. The same "cool" apps have been available for free quite a while ago so the coolness factor was there for people that wanted it. Jailbroken iPod Touch's and iPhone have had the same EXACT applications that Apple charged loyal customers $20 for but gave away (yes, yes there are fiancial reason) a few weeks later. Your term, "rogue hackers" could be considered offensive based on the hard work that many of these guys are putting in, and I am sure that many of their hacks have forced Apple to release upgrades, change the way they do things, etc.... because there were people out there willing to "Think Different".

No offense to you as well, but as far as jailbreaking/unlocking is concerned, you are a bit misinformed. Go to www.iclarified.com and get a great briefing on the state of unlocking/jailbreaking.
post #63 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Aren't there third party apps already out there? I have a bunch of them on my iPhone and iPod Touch. So the hold up can't be the apps unless Apple wants to put a: "Blessed by Jobs" stamp on each and every one.

It could be simply that they slipped the date, but February is not over yet.

Yes there are third party apps, in the hacker/gray-market arena. But I can't see Steve Jobs using them as demos on what can be done with this great new shiny SDK. Especially as these apps were not created with this new SDK. Besides you completely missed the point. I was saying that the lack of third party apps would not be a reason to delay the release of the SDK.

In this case your defense of "rogue hackers" is overblown, because they are rogue hackers. They hide their identities and are completely unknown to most of us. What are their companies? Where are they based? Who do we go after when their great masterpiece bricks our iPhone or Touch? Sorry, they sound like rogues to me. -- I do not mean to put down hackers in general or these in particular. But like all people there are good hackers and there are bad hackers, with most being mediocre. I will not trust my iPhone or Touch to an unknown hacker until there is a mechanism to evaluate and rate their work.
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post #64 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by aresee View Post

Yes there are third party apps, in the hacker/gray-market arena. But I can't see Steve Jobs using them as demos on what can be done with this great new shiny SDK. Especially as these apps were not created with this new SDK. Besides you completely missed the point. I was saying that the lack of third party apps would not be a reason to delay the release of the SDK.

Okay. I think, and maybe you can correct me, but these apps and any newly created apps have to use the same frameworks, etc... to be created right? I am not a programmer so anyone that knows, please weigh in. If MS were to create a nice shiny app, I am quite sure Steve Jobs would not use it as it is not "Apple" certified. Regardless, I have nothing wrong wtih Apple wanting to get paid for developing apps, but I would take umbridge if Apple releases and charges for an app that is already out there for free.

Quote:
In this case your defense of "rogue hackers" is overblown, because they are rogue hackers. They hide their identities and are completely unknown to most of us. What are their companies? Where are they based? Who do we go after when their great masterpiece bricks our iPhone or Touch? Sorry, they sound like rogues to me. -- I do not mean to put down hackers in general or these in particular. But like all people there are good hackers and there are bad hackers, with most being mediocre. I will not trust my iPhone or Touch to an unknown hacker until there is a mechanism to evaluate and rate their work.

Having a company does not insure a great app anymore more than lacking one. Bad apps usually are made known within the community. The one thing that the SDK will provide is a possible signing procedure for apps to say that they conform to a certain set of standards. As for bricking a Touch or iPhone. There is DFU mode, then restore. Everyone knows this. I totally agree with you about there being mediocre hackers. My problem, well actually I really do not have one, but more of a concern is that the SDK will further lock down the iPhone/iPod Touch developer community if they do not tow the Apple party line. Let Apple make money, but let's others Think Different and make the iPhone a really super product.
post #65 of 75
It is bad on the Apple's part that it has delayed SDK. Apple please don't copy Microsoft.

Sachin
post #66 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sachxn View Post

It is bad on the Apple's part that it has delayed SDK. Apple please don't copy Microsoft.

That's very silly. Every major company has had to delay a product for some reason at some time. The SDK being delayed for a few weeks doesn't make it anything like Vista, being repeatedly delayed for years
post #67 of 75
I would have the API late and done right, than on time and rushed. Believe me, there is nothing worse than a product that was rushed, simply to make a deadline. I believe it was Nintendo that said "A product is not late until it is released. A bad product will always be bad".
post #68 of 75
Quote:
Okay. I think, and maybe you can correct me, but these apps and any newly created apps have to use the same frameworks, etc... to be created right?

Wrong. The reason for the SDK is to create a framework. Right now they are programming in the wild with no established rules. I've heard from several sources that some of these apps cause problems with the phone and problems between themselves. I've heard from people who had used hacked apps but eventually dumped them all. An SDK sets a guide so that apps work well within in the phone and don't interfere with each other.

Quote:
Having a company does not insure a great app anymore more than lacking one.

Yes it does. If you are at all interested in your company making money. It would be better for you to make a good app. Once the word gets out on a bad app, few people will will buy it.
post #69 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

I to not think you have a real understanding of how the jailbreak/unlock process works. For one, I can unlock an jailbreak my iPhone faster than you can activate your phone via iTunes. Max time, 2 mins and 45 seconds. The same "cool" apps have been available for free quite a while ago so the coolness factor was there for people that wanted it. Jailbroken iPod Touch's and iPhone have had the same EXACT applications that Apple charged loyal customers $20 for but gave away (yes, yes there are fiancial reason) a few weeks later. Your term, "rogue hackers" could be considered offensive based on the hard work that many of these guys are putting in, and I am sure that many of their hacks have forced Apple to release upgrades, change the way they do things, etc.... because there were people out there willing to "Think Different".

No offense to you as well, but as far as jailbreaking/unlocking is concerned, you are a bit misinformed. Go to www.iclarified.com and get a great briefing on the state of unlocking/jailbreaking.

"I don't have an understanding"... whatever. I understand it, but think its stupid and applaud Apple everytime they have update the phone to brick jailbreakers.

I have tried it, my friends have tried is as well and failed... it took all of us forever. People's phones got messes up, people had to restore, it was ugly. Its not simple at all.

Granted we are not total freakin nerds like some other people may be, we do however have some technical knowledge and skill. There are people that can also solve a Rubik's cube in under 2 minutes, but that ain't the average joe.

Why play guerilla warfare with Apple and waste time on such nonsense? Are you that poor that you can't drop $20 for some software you will use?
post #70 of 75
laugh all you want, but your posts show that you don't understand jailbreaking. it's a 3 minute process. ziphone has a GUI that lets you merely click a button and the process does it by itself.

it may have taken you and your friends forever, but that's on you, not the process. you must have done it wrong (which is hard to imagine seeing how simple it is.)

firmware updates don't brick jailbroken iphones.

it's obvious to anyone who does that you don't know what you're talking about. so either inform yourself or move onto a subject where you do have an informed knowledgebase.
post #71 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmber View Post

laugh all you want, but your posts show that you don't understand jailbreaking. it's a 3 minute process. ziphone has a GUI that lets you merely click a button and the process does it by itself.

it may have taken you and your friends forever, but that's on you, not the process. you must have done it wrong (which is hard to imagine seeing how simple it is.)

firmware updates don't brick jailbroken iphones.

it's obvious to anyone who does that you don't know what you're talking about. so either inform yourself or move onto a subject where you do have an informed knowledgebase.

We did it close to 2 months ago, before 1.1.3 came out and used iBrickr, which didn't work for any of us. coincidence?

3 minute process? I DON'T CARE IF ITS A 3 SECOND PROCESS. I'm not into modding my damn phone, so I really could care less.

I am informed, just because you read a few freaking articles or posts somewhere doesn't make you a damn authority, so STHU.

I think Jailbreaking is We-Todd-It and I agree with Apples policy and I hope they come up with a way to FRY the freakin illegally jailbroken phones.

Jeez, just let me have my own opinion.
post #72 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdotdubz View Post

We did it close to 2 months ago, before 1.1.3 came out and used iBrickr, which didn't work for any of us. coincidence?

3 minute process? I DON'T CARE IF ITS A 3 SECOND PROCESS. I'm not into modding my damn phone, so I really could care less.

I am informed, just because you read a few freaking articles or posts somewhere doesn't make you a damn authority, so STHU.

I think Jailbreaking is We-Todd-It and I agree with Apples policy and I hope they come up with a way to FRY the freakin illegally jailbroken phones.

Jeez, just let me have my own opinion.

I agree you can have your own opinion all you want as this is fair, however when your opinion is incorrect, you will be called on it. By the way, the ZiPhone software to jailbreak and unlock was not out two months ago, so I have not idea what "opinion" you are talking about.

You said illegally jailbroken phone. Can you site the exact law that is transgressed when someone jailbreaks their own iPod or iPhone?
post #73 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

My problem, well actually I really do not have one, but more of a concern is that the SDK will further lock down the iPhone/iPod Touch developer community if they do not tow the Apple party line. Let Apple make money, but let's others Think Different and make the iPhone a really super product.

I'm not a programmer either, but this is the reason I am following the SDK release. I would like to know just how much Apple will lock down the iPhone/Touch apps. I hope that the renting of clothes and gnashing of teeth that is going on is all for nothing. But we will not know until the SDK comes out. This is why I think that the SDK release will be an 'event'. Weather you need to use iTunes to load the apps, or if Apple will provide a iTS storefront ala Podcasts, or if Apple will only allow fully controlled/certified apps, they will need to explain their position and answer many questions. For that they will need an event of some kind.
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post #74 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by aresee View Post

I'm not a programmer either, but this is the reason I am following the SDK release. I would like to know just how much Apple will lock down the iPhone/Touch apps. I hope that the renting of clothes and gnashing of teeth that is going on is all for nothing. But we will not know until the SDK comes out. This is why I think that the SDK release will be an 'event'. Weather you need to use iTunes to load the apps, or if Apple will provide a iTS storefront ala Podcasts, or if Apple will only allow fully controlled/certified apps, they will need to explain their position and answer many questions. For that they will need an event of some kind.

Hey aresee,

Good points again. I guess I have a pessimistic streak running through me at the moment. I feel that Apple is on the brink of becoming another M$, and I really would not like to see that happening.
post #75 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by rols View Post

What event? The 'big 26th event' myth was debunked within the last week, there never was one. Either way the I'm expcting the release of the iPhone SDK will be the same as all the other developer releases, I'll get an email telling me the new iPhone SDK is available, possibly as part of a new XCode download, that will be it.

Not ready to do the "Tole You So" dance just yet, but I'm getting my leg-warmers on just in case.
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